Call for Shotgun Testing

[Sakebee 2270]

Hey everyone,

 

I’ve been settling in and getting to know the community these past few days. I’ve really appreciated all your warm welcomes and messages. Today, I’d like to talk a little bit about our work on balancing shotguns.

 

I understand that the 2018 shotgun changes did not go over well. Since then, Little Orbit has been focusing on getting much more community input to help bring shotguns back to a fun and healthy place. That is where you all come in.

 

Now that we’ve got our EU servers situated, we’d really love your feedback. If you get the chance, please organize with some friends and do some missions in the Prototype District. Actual play will give us the best data for shotgun improvements. We’d particularly appreciate your thoughts on the Showstopper, as this gun will need the most love moving forward since it came out after the 2018 changes. After you’ve gotten a chance to play around with things, don’t forget to leave your thoughts here in this thread.

 

Once we’ve gathered some good feedback from this initial round, we’ll be ready to get a prototype version of Asylum up and running, so every post counts! Also, don’t forget that the Prototype District rewards extra Joker Tickets.

 

Thanks!

 

Sakebee

[Lign 361]

10 hours ago, Sakebee said:

Hey everyone,

 

I’ve been settling in and getting to know the community these past few days. I’ve really appreciated all your warm welcomes and messages. Today, I’d like to talk a little bit about our work on balancing shotguns.

 

I understand that the 2018 shotgun changes did not go over well. Since then, Little Orbit has been focusing on getting much more community input to help bring shotguns back to a fun and healthy place. That is where you all come in.

 

Now that we’ve got our EU servers situated, we’d really love your feedback. If you get the chance, please organize with some friends and do some missions in the Prototype District. Actual play will give us the best data for shotgun improvements. We’d particularly appreciate your thoughts on the Showstopper, as this gun will need the most love moving forward since it came out after the 2018 changes. After you’ve gotten a chance to play around with things, don’t forget to leave your thoughts here in this thread.

 

Once we’ve gathered some good feedback from this initial round, we’ll be ready to get a prototype version of Asylum up and running, so every post counts! Also, don’t forget that the Prototype District rewards extra Joker Tickets.

 

Thanks!

 

Sakebee

We have been playing arranged matches for the whole time while threat segregation is turned off. Basically, 0.68 jg is too much. You get instant two shot without realizing that some peaks you from the corner. Everyone on arranged matches saying if you have a choice between oca and jg, you should choose jg

 

Removed video.    - Azukii

[sweetLemonade 110]

10 hours ago, Lign said:

We have been playing arranged matches for the whole time while threat segregation is turned off. Basically, 0.68 jg is too much. You get instant two shot without realizing that some peaks you from the corner. Everyone on arranged matches saying if you have a choice between oca and jg, you should choose jg

 

Removed video.    - Azukii

obviously? jg is supposed to be the superior cqc weapon since of the cornerpeek advantage.

[Lign 361]

1 minute ago, 悲しい春 said:

obviously? jg is supposed to be the superior cqc weapon since of the cornerpeek advantage.

It should be good but not the go to choice. Basically there's no point to choose any other cqc with that ttk of jg. If you didn't realize, usually shotgun always make a first shot and practical ttk always faster than any other cqc weapon. And don't forget about terrible accuracy oca has. Even now, with current jg, everyone on arranged picks jg instead of oca because of impact it can do

[vsb 6174]

1 minute ago, 悲しい春 said:

obviously? jg is supposed to be the superior cqc weapon since of the cornerpeek advantage.

the idea is that for pump shotguns to utilize cover more effectively (because of burst damage) they should have a longer ttk and/or shorter range compared to smgs

 

as it is now pump shotguns excel or are mostly equal in all areas, which makes them slightly unbalanced across the whole cqc category

[Lign 361]

1 minute ago, Solamente said:

the idea is that for pump shotguns to utilize cover more effectively (because of burst damage) they should have a longer ttk and/or shorter range compared to smgs

 

as it is now pump shotguns excel or are mostly equal in all areas, which makes them slightly unbalanced across the whole cqc category

First time I'm totally agree with you

[PepeHands 50]

Can't we just give shotguns time travel to 2018? They were fine before all bufs and nerfs

[TurboBRCrim 29]

Just a heads up, most people playing the game don't read forums.

Plus the tests districts are empty.

Also why don't bring this changes up live and keep tweaking, instead of waiting months to balance all the shotguns...

 

 

[sweetLemonade 110]

19 minutes ago, Solamente said:

the idea is that for pump shotguns to utilize cover more effectively (because of burst damage) they should have a longer ttk and/or shorter range compared to smgs

 

as it is now pump shotguns excel or are mostly equal in all areas, which makes them slightly unbalanced across the whole cqc category

so you're basically saying make shotgun 3 shot to kill or some super long 2 shot ttk which doesn't enforce aggresive plays and just contributes to a already boring, super passive meta of cornerpopping for days on the trash hitreg we have for like 8 years? idk bud, different playstyles different needs

[claude 223]

10 hours ago, Lign said:

We have been playing arranged matches for the whole time while threat segregation is turned off. Basically, 0.68 jg is too much. You get instant two shot without realizing that some peaks you from the corner. Everyone on arranged matches saying if you have a choice between oca and jg, you should choose jg

 

Removed video.    - Azukii

most of this vod is just sleeper ntec game play, but yeah. underyling problems with shotguns is that they're too strong as defense weapons, on a game where most missions are defender-sided. Make the CSG and JG 3 shots to kill, increase the fire rate, force the player to be out more. TTK can be increased or remain the same, I dont really think TTK is the underlying issue, it's just the defensive nature of the JG that makes it too good, and this same change should also be applied for the CSG. Once the old pellet reg system is taken out, the CSGs range and reg problem will go away, and the JG will be less effective at range, since landing a few pellets wont be as rewarding as it is currently, where even if you hit 5 or 6 pellets, you're going to do at least 70-80% of the full-pump damage.

 

one may argue that increasing the RoF of these weapons will just make them too similar to the shredder or nfas, but even if the JG and CSG had the same minimum RoF as the shredder or nfas, it wouldn't matter, because they are both pump shotguns. crutch tax is applied to the shredder and nfas, while the player is forced to shoot perfect pumps to try to achieve the lowest TTK. Currently, the nfas is the fastest-killing CQC weapon in the game, and is almost one of the fastest killing weapons in the game, while the JG (and even the CSG) allow the player to cheese out a defense stage with very little risk.

 

shredder shouldnt be touched, and the whole meme with strife being able to 1 hit players using fragile is valid, but idk why anyone would pretend to be worried about the viability of fragile when the underlying issue is how important Clotting is to have equipped.

[VickyFox 353]

7 minutes ago, Algoz said:

Just a heads up, most people playing the game don't read forums.

Plus the tests districts are empty.

Also why don't bring this changes up live and keep tweaking, instead of waiting months to balance all the shotguns...

-I'm sure those who don't read the forum do so for their own reasons, but if they don't read the forum, something tells me that their feedback given is going to fall on deaf ears if it's given only in game chat.

The information is there for them to look it up. The same way they can't argue that they didn't know they broke a rule, when it's on them to read the rules.

 

 

-Test districts are often empty indeed, "Be the change you want to see in the world" ~ Mahatma Gandhi.

As Sakebee said, take the initiative to invite and arrange friends to play together. Maybe make a little competition out of it or something.

 

 

-Altering and adjusting an entire gun type from week to week in live district is going to confuse players.

Not only is it unfair to make the shotgun users guinea pigs, but it affects those who are not using shotguns and are trying to progress their game.

Why should it be imposed on everyone for the sake of fine tuning the balance of shotguns?

 

As well as unfair to live district players, test districts are a controlled environment that prevents the rest of the game being broken if 1 gun is unbalanced or if something breaks.

 

 

[swft 356]

Put all prototype changes into both fight clubs and watch the feedback, thanks!

[vsb 6174]

1 hour ago, 悲しい春 said:

so you're basically saying make shotgun 3 shot to kill or some super long 2 shot ttk which doesn't enforce aggresive plays and just contributes to a already boring, super passive meta of cornerpopping for days on the trash hitreg we have for like 8 years? idk bud, different playstyles different needs

sure we could go to the extremes you mention but it would be more balanced to do a combination of approaches, like say raise the ttk to .7s and knock 5m of range off - the idea is not to have shotguns be superior at corner popping and straight face trading because that eliminates the need for smgs

 

as for "different playstyles" that's why we have more than 1 weapon in apb, if you think cornerpopping is boring af then you're free to use an nfas and be as aggressive as you want

[Lign 361]

34 minutes ago, claude said:

most of this vod is just sleeper ntec game play, but yeah. underyling problems with shotguns is that they're too strong as defense weapons, on a game where most missions are defender-sided. Make the CSG and JG 3 shots to kill, increase the fire rate, force the player to be out more. TTK can be increased or remain the same, I dont really think TTK is the underlying issue, it's just the defensive nature of the JG that makes it too good, and this same change should also be applied for the CSG. Once the old pellet reg system is taken out, the CSGs range and reg problem will go away, and the JG will be less effective at range, since landing a few pellets wont be as rewarding as it is currently, where even if you hit 5 or 6 pellets, you're going to do at least 70-80% of the full-pump damage.

 

one may argue that increasing the RoF of these weapons will just make them too similar to the shredder or nfas, but even if the JG and CSG had the same minimum RoF as the shredder or nfas, it wouldn't matter, because they are both pump shotguns. crutch tax is applied to the shredder and nfas, while the player is forced to shoot perfect pumps to try to achieve the lowest TTK. Currently, the nfas is the fastest-killing CQC weapon in the game, and is almost one of the fastest killing weapons in the game, while the JG (and even the CSG) allow the player to cheese out a defense stage with very little risk.

 

shredder shouldnt be touched, and the whole meme with strife being able to 1 hit players using fragile is valid, but idk why anyone would pretend to be worried about the viability of fragile when the underlying issue is how important Clotting is to have equipped.

I showed that vod just to show that we’re playing in prototype district. There were much more broadcasts. Basically, everyone who plays arranged thinks that jg is strong even on live. Buffing its ttk doesn’t make sense due to corner camping or car gameplay. Usually, if you push a corner without knowing that there’s jg sitting behind you barely even hit that guy for half hp before getting two shotted. Also, don’t forget about rng, you have to be so lucky to be able to minttk jg by oca or pmg. Just remember the moments when you faced jg. How often do you kill him before getting a 2nd shot from jg even if he doesn’t two shot you. 

[xHenryman90x 129]

Obeya CR762 etc should be next?

[Hexerin 1142]

59 minutes ago, xHenryman90x said:

Obeya CR762 etc should be next?

Why am I not surprised that people are starting to bitch and whinge about the CR762 now that the NTEC got nerfed? It's almost like we all called it...

 

 

Edited January 16, 2020 by Hexerin

[Arcane 33]

14 hours ago, Sakebee said:

Once we’ve gathered some good feedback from this initial round, we’ll be ready to get a prototype version of Asylum up and running, so every post counts!

Thank you! I still feel like you should lower the fire rate of both ntec and shotguns, plus the ogre feels pretty op compared to normal nfas.

Edited January 16, 2020 by Mystical

[Speedz 147]

Just so everyone is on the same boat here, the stats that are currently on the Prototype district:

https://apbdb.com/items/Weapon_Shotgun_CSG_Joker/TestA/

https://apbdb.com/items/Weapon_Shotgun_JG/TestA/

[Hexerin 1142]

1 hour ago, Speedz said:

Just so everyone is on the same boat here, the stats that are currently on the Prototype district:

https://apbdb.com/items/Weapon_Shotgun_CSG_Joker/TestA/

https://apbdb.com/items/Weapon_Shotgun_JG/TestA/

For clarification, are the shotgun damage values still processing through rayscaling? Or is the rayscaling stat on those two pages just there because the live stat pages still need to show rayscaling (since live shotguns still use the function)? Or are you even able to see one way or the other with the data you have access to?

 

They stated they intended to revert (remove) rayscaling. That could be done by simply setting rayscaling to 100% across the board and then adjusting the base damage back to how it used to be. Effectively same result, but keeps the mechanical functionality there in the off chance it's used in the future.

 

Edited January 16, 2020 by Hexerin

[Spillra 135]

I played it a bit when it just came out on the test district. And since its more or less the same as the 2017 shotguns (which is want I want it to be) i don't have any feedback. It feels good in game and looks good on paper.

Edited January 16, 2020 by Boxo

[PotatoeGirl 220]

Edit: nvm.

Edited January 16, 2020 by HawtGirl

[Speedz 147]

2 hours ago, Hexerin said:

For clarification, are the shotgun damage values still processing through rayscaling? Or is the rayscaling stat on those two pages just there because the live stat pages still need to show rayscaling (since live shotguns still use the function)? Or are you even able to see one way or the other with the data you have access to?

 

They stated they intended to revert (remove) rayscaling. That could be done by simply setting rayscaling to 100% across the board and then adjusting the base damage back to how it used to be. Effectively same result, but keeps the mechanical functionality there in the off chance it's used in the future.

 

The shotguns on those Test pages are still processing through rayscaling, but due to it being set to 1 (or 100%) it is not scaling anything. 

The rayscaling stat on weapon pages is always shown if not 0.

Edited January 16, 2020 by Speedz
word

[MACKxBOLAN 435]

I gonna try to be nice about this. 

 Put yourself in the shoes of the average skilled player, n i use the word Skill loosely. 

We had a few new shotguns from LO, They were cool.

Then they come along an start messing with things, nerfing every weapon that can be bought.

Then They come at us with this 'HOg-wash about customs and eu servers and unleash the Golds on everyone.

Lets Add in the cracker-jack box anti cheat, and the companies favoritism toward golds and cheaters.

    So, you wanna take away the asylum and continue for weeks letting Golds into the Regular peoples server, so that u can nerf more weapons so the Golds have an even easier time waxing our asses. 

  You want Me to be the Anti cheat and spend my time reporting everyone, that you will not do shit about, you want to nerf more guns, and u want to use my server freedom to do it. So i gotta deal with cheaters all day while you guys open an instance just for gun nerfing, And You want Me to go down n waste my time on a dead patootie server to help you nerf my guns.

  I take desegregation as a personal insult, I hope your Golden buddies are rich, cause i wont spend Not a Dime as long as Golds run free and your anti-cheat is non-existent and useless, n I'll be damned if imma go down n help you make the golds even harder to kill

[BrandonBranderson 672]

Sakebee:  Please everyone help us balance shotguns!

 

Mackybolo: No I won't help make the game more balanced, I'm insulted by golds, cheaters, and the lack of threat segregation.

 

Drop the tinfoil hat man, the only reason for the current desegregation is because they don't have enough physical servers set up to run a separate district for each threat yet.  As someone who sometimes has to ship to the EU where I work, customs can be a load of horseshit at times.  If EAC wasn't working then we would see a lot more T's running around at mach speed.  Do you even remember the days of FairFight?  That shit was awful.  EAC is like god's gift compared to FF.  Just because bans aren't being announced in chat anymore doesn't mean cheaters aren't getting banned.  A lot of the suspicious people I report, I end up never seeing again.  Maybe the ones you're talking about just aren't cheating?

[PotatoeGirl 220]

17 hours ago, Sakebee said:

Once we’ve gathered some good feedback from this initial round, we’ll be ready to get a prototype version of Asylum up and running, so every post counts! Also, don’t forget that the Prototype District rewards extra Joker Tickets.

I don't remember this line being there the first time. Was it added after?