What if LTL was just a weapon mod

[illgot 379]

- 95 % hard damage

- 95 % soft damage

+ 200 % stamina damage

[LilyV3 323]

this would only work when stamina damage on these guns would be changed as well, otherwise those 200% would make some weapons op and others still just not work as LTL.

Just have a look at the ab vault which stamina damage guns have and look at what your changes would do.  

 

take the n-tec for example

 

Health Damage185

Stamina Damage20

 

now apply your numbers, and tell me how 60 stamina damage make this a working LTL gun.

 

So making a mod turn weapons into LTL would really need an entire change of all guns Stamina damage.

it would probably need more like 10x as much stamina damage and then an adjustment of all guns to have proper stamina damage values.

+ the mod needs to enable the ability of a gun to stun. because dealing 1000stamina damage is not a stun unless the gun has that flag enabled

Edited October 9, 2019 by LilyV3

[illgot 379]

8 minutes ago, LilyV3 said:

this would only work when stamina damage on these guns would be changed as well, otherwise those 200% would make some weapons op and others still just not work as LTL.

Just have a look at the ab vault which stamina damage guns have and look at what your changes would do.  

 

take the n-tec for example

 

Health Damage185

Stamina Damage20

 

now apply your numbers, and tell me how 60 stamina damage make this a working LTL gun.

 

So making a mod turn weapons into LTL would really need an entire change of all guns Stamina damage.

it would probably need more like 10x as much stamina damage and then an adjustment of all guns to have proper stamina damage values.

+ the mod needs to enable the ability of a gun to stun. because dealing 1000stamina damage is not a stun unless the gun has that flag enabled

yeah stamina damage is all over the place, would definitely need a cap on stamina damage per shot.  Maybe reduce all lethal weapon stamina damage to a standard baseline.  Current stamina damage on lethal weapons is pretty useless.

 

what about the DMR, it stuns occasionally.

Edited October 9, 2019 by illgot

[LilyV3 323]

7 minutes ago, illgot said:

yeah stamina damage is all over the place, would definitely need a cap on stamina damage per shot.  Maybe reduce all lethal weapon stamina damage to a standard baseline.  Current stamina damage on lethal weapons is pretty useless.

 

what about the DMR, it stuns occasionally.

the DMR for example would in this case always be a one shot stun gun (1200stamina damage) , pretty op then xD.

Edited October 9, 2019 by LilyV3

[illgot 379]

1 minute ago, LilyV3 said:

the DMR for example would in this case always be a one shot stun gun, pretty op then xD.

no, meant weapons tagged to stun.  I always thought that if stamina was dropped 1000 then it would stun a player no matter what weapon was used.

[KnifuWaifu 499]

Goooo stun rocket OSMAW!

 

What happens to the current LTL weapons? Just delete them? Seems a bit harsh of a deal for a whole family of weapons. 

 

I do like the idea of having mods cover different ammunition types - Armour Piercing, Dragon's Breath, Rubber, idk Strawberry Flavoured. It's a good idea on paper but it adds a whole new kettle of fish to the game which like the LTL mod idea will tragically nerf and make OP so many weapons. 

[foscor77 169]

i hate to be a nay but this time, No.

[vsb 6170]

i don’t think it would be a good idea

 

in addition to making ltl on par with lethal weapons (which would also mean criminals should receive their own version) it would just be a ton of balancing  on top of the rebalancing were already going through, and orbit can’t even handle that  

[Leefekyn 203]

I'll just leave this here: 

It's got cool charts and shit too

Edited October 9, 2019 by Leefekyn

[TheJellyGoo 343]

People that suggest a generalized change don't realize how sensitive overdamage/underdamage is.
It would require individual rework on every gun which makes this just not worth it.

[CookiePuss 5373]

What if explosives were just a weapon mod?

[KnifuWaifu 499]

10 hours ago, Leefekyn said:

I'll just leave this here: 

It's got cool charts and shit too

Nice work. Well thought out and yes cool charts! At least the mods/gms read the Suggestions Forum even if some the players don't. 

[Noob_Guardian 417]

This actually had been suggested at one point as something they were looking into, either by the old team just before LO or by LO. I can't remember, however the discussion on it kinda ended and nothing came of it. They were looking at more ltl weapons, or making it a mod. I almost want to think @MattScott had mentioned something about it a long time ago though. He or another dev can clarify if i'm wrong I guess.

 

As for the mod stats, in general you'd want to reduce normal damage by roughly 50-85% (2-4x the ttk which would still be about a 4 second kill, similar to other ltl weapons... i think?) and increase the stamina damage by let's say... 80-160% depending on the gun (as speculation, i dont know actual stamina damage stats). They could make several mod classes for it. "shotgun, smg, rifle, and sniper" which would make balancing for the fact much easier. If a certain class has low stamina damage, that classes stamina boost would be increased much more than other class mods. Some weapons like the DMR might need a touchup to make it ~3-4 hits to stun or simply to allow it to stun, but I can't see it being a bad change for balance. However, a rework of the LTL and stamina damage system wouldn't be too bad, it's been talked about a number of times already, but nothing has happened on the undertaking.

 

Edited October 10, 2019 by Noob_Guardian

[Hexerin 1140]

How to know someone has not even the slightest clue what they're talking about when it comes to LTL balance discussions: They suggest reducing damage to artificially inflate the weapon's TTS.

[Noob_Guardian 417]

2 minutes ago, Hexerin said:

How to know someone has not even the slightest clue what they're talking about when it comes to LTL balance discussions: They suggest reducing damage to artificially inflate the weapon's TTS.

I don't think he knows about the inner workings is all, but the suggestion isn't a bad one.

============================================================

 

You would be forced to reduce the normal health damage to even think of making a mod that makes lethal guns ltl.  Most guns also cannot stun, they have also to have a special modifier which lets them stun. Hence why DMR and nano can stun, but almost every other sniper and gun can't, they don't actually have the ability to. A mod "might" be able to change that though.

 

If you have too much life damage, then you can't stun because they die, and HP and Stamina damage are two separate modifiers. You'd ofc would also have to somehow increase and inflate a weapons stamina damage, and give it the modifier which lets it stun, to allow for stunning while simultaneously decreasing the hp damage and likely the hard damage to balance it properly.

[CookiePuss 5373]

Im not sure why LTL weapons cant have competitive ttk's.

You still have to actually arrest them.

 

[Hexerin 1140]

3 minutes ago, Noob_Guardian said:

-snip-

You don't seem to understand how damage works, there's no special modifier that enables stunning. Literally any gun in the game can stun.

 

Baseline, a player has 1,000 health and 1,000 stamina. Every gun in the game has a stat for health damage and another stat for stamina damage, both of which are dealt each time you shoot someone. When you deal enough of the type of damage, the target will either die (health damage) or be stunned (stamina damage).

 

If both are reduced to zero at the same time, the game defaults to killing the target instead of stunning it (this is why the DMR kills instead of stuns on the third shot within 85m). The reason most guns never stun is simply because most guns have a stamina damage value that would require 50+ shots to stun.

[illgot 379]

37 minutes ago, CookiePuss said:

Im not sure why LTL weapons cant have competitive ttk's.

You still have to actually arrest them.

 

Lethal and LTL used to have comparable TTK and TTS with RTW but G1 reduced lethal TTK while not reducing LTL TTS or in some cases making it worse.

Edited October 10, 2019 by illgot

[vsb 6170]

3 hours ago, illgot said:

Lethal and LTL used to have comparable TTK and TTS with RTW but G1 reduced lethal TTK while not reducing LTL TTS or in some cases making it worse.

the rtw mod Energizer (-15% reduced stamina damage iirc) was rolled into every character by default by g1

[Ketog 1031]

Someone made an awesome post about a similar thing, with a more in depth approach to it:

 

 

Oh whelp, was already posted above,  rip.

Edited October 10, 2019 by Ketog

[Mitne 724]

LTL mod? I see potential to abuse, sadly.

[Ketog 1031]

10 hours ago, Hexerin said:

You don't seem to understand how damage works, there's no special modifier that enables stunning. Literally any gun in the game can stun.

 

Baseline, a player has 1,000 health and 1,000 stamina. Every gun in the game has a stat for health damage and another stat for stamina damage, both of which are dealt each time you shoot someone. When you deal enough of the type of damage, the target will either die (health damage) or be stunned (stamina damage).

 

If both are reduced to zero at the same time, the game defaults to killing the target instead of stunning it (this is why the DMR kills instead of stuns on the third shot within 85m). The reason most guns never stun is simply because most guns have a stamina damage value that would require 50+ shots to stun.

 

If you're so sure, tell me why you can JG + pig someone, but not pig + jg someone, to stun him.

[illgot 379]

6 hours ago, Solamente said:

the rtw mod Energizer (-15% reduced stamina damage iirc) was rolled into every character by default by g1

this makes the gap even wider for LTL versus lethal.

 

The only thing I can see being abused by LTL is if you are able to perpetually stun people (no cool down) instead of arresting them.  I'm not 100% sure if there is a cool down for stunning a person continuously as they start to recover.

[yood 345]

series LTL very good . there is a small problem with open slots for mods .

[HelplessBaby 33]

This game came before league of legends and borderlands but had a lot of prototype mechanics that later were implemented in those games.

 

League of legends longest stun is 3.5 long and thats only if u land an Ashe arrow accross the map, after that the longest ability stun is 2.5 seconds long
 

And it feels like a long time where they can just kill u ez.

 

Stun time in Apb is hella long !

Edited October 10, 2019 by BloomGloomFlowerz