Why are you nerfing the NTEC?

[BrandonBranderson 672]

On 9/21/2019 at 1:00 PM, Noob_Guardian said:

N-tec often is just downright better than most other mid-range guns in a lot of situations. You shouldn't have to buff 6+ weapons (which would be a statistical nightmare to get right) when you can nerf a single one and do minor changes to the developing meta.

 

did you mean nfas?

Good point, let me correct myself.  It's one of the easiest guns to use right next to the NFAS.  (ATAC is still really easy though too.)

Edited September 23, 2019 by BrandonBranderson

[Salvick 248]

10 hours ago, Thial said:

It's not because ntec is too op. It's because it's too versatile as opposed to other weapons.

 

1 hour ago, Player1 said:

Ntec is definitly to strong in ccq, just hipfire and ran like a idiot, its definitly to easy but thats only one in my opinion where it needs to get nerfed

 

This is what I was trying to say too, is not that the gun is plain "op" but its because of its versatility that makes me feel it shouldn't have that power in cqc and above its effective range, so probably the damage drop should be changed too.

[Noob_Guardian 417]

5 hours ago, Salvick said:

 

 

This is what I was trying to say too, is not that the gun is plain "op" but its because of its versatility that makes me feel it shouldn't have that power in cqc and above its effective range, so probably the damage drop should be changed too.

The effective range is being reduced, which will effect damage drop as well as the jump shooting accuracy nerfed.

 

They are testing the bloom recovery and ttk nerf vs the ammo nerf. Personally I feel a .75 ttk and the current test B bloom for it (if not "slightly" faster) would be fine. But the test is showing .85ttk which is far too high for a weapon that got into 45m range.

Edited September 23, 2019 by Noob_Guardian

[KNickz 46]

man this guy in his female apb character pitch black hoodie and khaki colored chinos tucked into socks wearing a ski mask with goggles and outlaw mask and as short as possible killed me AGAIN aiming down sights with the ntec

 

i sure do HATE listening to his to this 30 second theme too

 

[Lign 361]

On 9/22/2019 at 6:45 PM, Flaws said:

That's why it's an assault rifle, that's how assault rifles work  They are supposed to be usable at most ranges to an extent, just like the N-TEC is. It doesn't excel, but it's good enough to hold it's ground from close range until a certain long range distance, it's that way in every game. The same way as assault rifles get outgunned by weapons that excel at thier respective range in every other game too. It's the choice of the players whether they want to cover a specific range or they want a more versatile choice that requires more effort over covering a single range effectively with less effort. The N-TEC is solo friendly but if you roll 4 N-TECs in a team, you won't get far, not against another team of the same skill level anyway. They could have OCAs/Shotguns, marksmanship weapons, snipers and all of those are capable of outgunning the N-TEC if they are decent players.

When I see ntec stack in an opposite team I switch to ntec because I can’t beat them with oca or obeya but I beat them easily by using only ntec. Does it mean I am a bad player? 4 stack ntec of good players doesn’t let me maximize 

oca or obeya by outplaying and forces me to switch to ntec to be able to win them. It’s the same when opponents abuse cargameplay and makes me switching to concs and alig

Edited September 24, 2019 by Lign

[Kakalaki 65]

On ‎9‎/‎20‎/‎2019 at 7:20 AM, Alani said:

its because the weapon isnt easy to learn

 

therefore it must be nerfed to the ground because fuck the people who git gud and learn how to use weapons lol

not easy to learn??? lol? are you green threat??? tapfire and burstfire is what you do in almost any shooter

[Revoluzzer 274]

On 9/22/2019 at 4:26 PM, Flaws said:

the N-TEC is versatile but never excels at anything more than it should.

As a supposed "jack of all trades" it's surprising it does excel at anything at all.

 

On 9/23/2019 at 5:43 AM, CookiePuss said:

I'd personally like an easier to use STAR for an improved new player experience.

The STAR is already extremely easy to use and a great starter weapon, as far as I'm concerned. It doesn't require any deep knowledge of game mechanics to perform adequate. Since it is an actual jack of all trades, but master of none, it incentivises players to try other weapons. But they can always fall back to the STAR if they need something well rounded.

 

Unless they try the N-Tec, of course. Then they have a weapon that is flat out better at everything the STAR does.

[safdfsgkjhdgsjkhs 140]

lol people have high hopes for Lost Orbit..... think about this whole "rebalancing" thing from an outside the box perspective.

 

They are nerfing the 1 balanced gun in the game... thats 1 item they are changing. So in, what should be a content update... we get 1 gun that gets "rebalanced"

 

When a real content or rebalance update... they should take a look at the worst guns in the game (theres about 30 of them) and "rebalance" these instead...

 

THESE 30 BAD GUNS ARE THE NEWEST OF ALL THE CONTENT WE HAD IN THE PAST YEARS yet they want to change something thats been in the game since day one (and already been hella nerfed since its original version) because making the NEWEST content in the game would be way too hard for them. gtfoh lmao

 

btw the star is terrible and doesnt show new players how to play properly. they get mopped by veterans and instantly cry p2w or just uninstal. maybe you should give new players stock ntecs instead or atleast buff this gun so new players can hope to compete.

Edited September 26, 2019 by safdfsgkjhdgsjkhs

[CookiePuss 5373]

2 hours ago, Revoluzzer said:

The STAR is already extremely easy to use and a great starter weapon, as far as I'm concerned. It doesn't require any deep knowledge of game mechanics to perform adequate. Since it is an actual jack of all trades, but master of none, it incentivises players to try other weapons. But they can always fall back to the STAR if they need something well rounded.

 

Honestly I'd prefer even one of the Raptors or ATACs for a starter weapon. VERY easy to use, but with obvious downsides. Want to make up for the downsides? Try a more difficult AR.

[neophobia 216]

4 hours ago, safdfsgkjhdgsjkhs said:

They are nerfing the 1 balanced gun 

 

btw the star is terrible

if it's the only "balanced" gun, maybe that means it's not? "there's one wrong way driver currently on hwy 123" - "what do you mean ONE, i've passed thousands!"

the ntec is too versatile, full stop.

 

no, it's not. not teaching the players how to play properly??? what? how would a gun do that by itself? the star is a versatile weapon, but not great, i agree. but: if they were given e.g. an oca on the other side, they'd think the game consists of rushing in only.

i'd also prefer a different starter weapon buuut... yeah, maybe the atac. although: both are quite easy to use and don't require getting used to tapfiring. that makes them good starter weapons. i agree that the star might feel quite weak in the beginning though.

Edited September 26, 2019 by neophobia

[Tenginima 74]

NTEC is fine, has always been fine, will always be fine. What people get wrong with it, especially in arguments about it, especially like Revoluzzer and Ghost is that the "git gud" argument is actually a much stronger argument that what people give it credit for. There's a reason why a captain decides where a ship goes and why it does so, much more experienced players such as myself know a lot more about game balance then the majority of others in this game.

 

The prime reason for why the "git gud" argument is strong is because when you compare 2 weapons such as the Star and the NTEC and put them against each other, while it is true that people overhype how "difficult" it is to use the NTEC, it is, relatively speaking to the Star, "difficult to use", for the simple fact that the NTEC has recoil, the star does not, and I am talking about realistically recoil, not technical recoil. The Star can't be, in it's current state as effective as the NTEC, due to the fact that it is 1 of the easiest weapons in the game by design. You see, there is a balance in having guns that aren't created equally, if 1 gun is easier to use, then it should be less effective then its counterparts. The Star is less effective then the NTEC, and the NTEC is superior in most ways, because the NTEC has, albeit a not very big, skill curve comparatively. Some would argue that the NTEC, doesn't represent a big enough power curve due to how "easy" it is to use. The problem with this argument is that you can bring out hundreds of examples of similar situations in APB, how the Raptor 45 is just a 50M primary Nano, or how the AMG is just a straight upgrade to the shaw, with nothing to make it more difficult to use, and you'll be stuck in an endless loop of constantly rebalancing, for the sake of rebalancing. Secondly, it's loosely based on the assumption of what is hard and what isn't in APB. Like what decides what is a "hard" gun to use? Is it recoil? Spray pattern? etc etc. People don't agree on this front, people say that it's too powerful for its intended role, making it way too powerful for other guns in their classes, the problem with this argument is that this is where the "git gud" part comes in. If you lose, to an NTEC, CQC with OCA, JG, CSG, PMG and whatnot, you are to blame, if you lose to an NTEC when you have a rifle at 60M range? You are to blame, and what's the ultimate proof of this? When you consider some of the people that use the "git gud" argument, like myself, they are at the absolute top of the hierarchy of skill in this game. AKA the people that are able to play around practically every situation, this is why our "git gud" works, and your "anti git gut" doesn't. Gametime and years spent in APB isn't the biggest factor in knowledge of the weapons sandbox, compared to skill. Skill is the biggest factor when it comes to knowledge, specifically about the weapons sandbox.

 

What does all this mean then. It means that even if you were to nerf the NTEC, you're treating the Symptoms of a disease, not the root of it. Fact of the matter is, nerf the NTEC, as Flaws said, will simply mean that rifles, and other guns will be pushed into meta, nerfing the NTEC does not equal to a more balanced and "large" meta, it will simply mean that guns such as the OBIR, OBEYA, FAR, NSSW will be used instead of the NTEC. The problem remains, the Symptom was treated instead.

 

And what is this problem? It is the core problem with APB's whole design. At least mission district-wise, because you see, why is the NTEC so dominant in missions? It is because of the fact that missions in themselves, favour a very specific meta, due to low TTK weapons, and little cover, that is Car gameplaying and long range rifles. APB was never designed with a quick TTK, and while raising it would be more work then it would be worth, the fact of the matter is that NTEC's and Rifles and their equivalents are so powerful because of the sole reason, that the map and certain game mechanics was never designed for quick TTK's. This is why the NTEC is chosen above so many alternatives, because when you have this meta, Car gameplaying, Rifles, Consumables (shields), Spotter, High burn fuel, Weapon Stacking, and low TTK. You end up in a situation where you either pick a really good gun for a specific situation, and eyhier do super well, or fuck all with it, or you use THE gun of choice, to be able to handle all situations, moderately well, you'll still lose to rifles at long range, you'll still lose to SMG's close, but you'll at least be able to put up "a fight" rather then nothing. Also consider teamwork, since not everyone are willing or have the capability too play in a 4man or premade team, the NTEC ofc becomes a natural choice, beacause it reduces the amount of teamwork needed and coordination, it's a natural phenomenon, when you consider missions, and their dynamic nature, which, due to their dynamic nature, ironically enough, is what is causing such a stale meta. 

 

Case and point to prove what I am saying. Look at Fightclub, specifically Abington, sure the NTEC is good there, but you'll see a lot more weapons being used, and loud out combos being used WHILE also being effective. There the NTEC is a true "jack of all trades", because of the map, all its features, powerpositions, counter powerpositions, having 1 room with around 10 different approach zones, a lot of cover at many areas, means that you can fully negate a lot of the NTEC's strengths, by using weapons that are better suited for the current room, zone and combat area. This is why I will always say this Fightclub was and always will be the NR1 PERSONAL SKILL mode for apb, as it is holy dependent on your personal skill, way more then your team. Missions on the contrary are Team based, hence why you can have a subpar team with great individual players, lose to less skilled individual players, but that are more coordinated and work better as a team.

 

Secondly, Fightclub is the true playground and testing ground for APB's gun sandbox. In FC, almost, everything is viable, due to the nature of the maps, and the skill involved with each player. Ofc there will be exceptions to the rule, such is always the case, but the large majority of weapons do find some success in FC, due to the fact that FC is just simply a more balanced version of the "New APB" (New APB as in when G1 took over, made the game quicker by adding the sprint shooting, lowering ttk and whatnot).

 

This is why FC, and the gun knowledge you get from FC is a lot more relevant to the "disease" of APB, because it shows that, the reason why certain guns are picked over others, are more or less because of the current structure of missions, which again, proves the fact that nerfing the NTEC is not the solution to the problem, when in FC, the NTEC isn't even a problem.

 

And lastly when it comes to FC, which also ties into the "git gud" and why some people can use it as a strong argument and others can't. Take me as an example, for years now in a row, i've been the absolute top dog in FC, there is almost not a single time where I do not perform at least great compared to the majority of players in FC. I am literally MVP or at least at the top 3 almost every single game, no matter the circumstance, no matter the opposition, and no matter the match. There are OFC exceptions, i'm only human, even I can make mistakes, and sometimes I just want to goof around. But the proof is in the pudding, my consistency in FC is extremely rare, there are very few players that even come close to my consistency and even fewer that reach it and surpass it. Point i'm trying to make? Time spent in a game does not equal skill, that's why people like Ghost and Revoluzzer are sadly, out of their league when it comes to this game, veterans yes, at the high end of skill? No. Relics of the past as I like to say, their feedback is good, but with all due respect, neither of you 2 stand a chance against many of the players that are even bellow me skill-wise, in FC, missions, I can't comment on, but in FC you are out of your league. This is why while you are still allowed to have your opinion, you are factually wrong, your arguments are wrong, when people like me can even make the SWARM seem like an OP weapon, then the fact of the matter is that my opinion, and my words carry more weight. I'm saying this both to stroke my epeen, cause i'm that mood, I don't feel humble today, but I will also be honest. I'm coming after you 2 specifically, because you 2 are the 2 people that I see talk about the NTEC the most, and your arguments are invalid. 

 

 

 

 

[Salvick 248]

2 hours ago, Tenginima said:

...the "git gud" argument is actually a much stronger argument that what people give it credit for. There's a reason why a captain decides where a ship goes and why it does so, much more experienced players such as myself know a lot more about game balance then the majority of others in this game.

 

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What does it mean "much more experienced players such as myself" ? It means your wall of text is more valid than what anyone else could say? 

Edited September 27, 2019 by Salvick

[vsb 6170]

2 hours ago, Tenginima said:

invalid

jesus christ i’ve never seen anyone draw out “ggez” like this

[TheJellyGoo 343]

8 hours ago, Tenginima said:

 

[...]

What does all this mean then. It means that even if you were to nerf the NTEC, you're treating the Symptoms of a disease, not the root of it. Fact of the matter is, nerf the NTEC, as Flaws said, will simply mean that rifles, and other guns will be pushed into meta, nerfing the NTEC does not equal to a more balanced and "large" meta, it will simply mean that guns such as the OBIR, OBEYA, FAR, NSSW will be used instead of the NTEC. The problem remains, the Symptom was treated instead.

[...]

You keep saying how it's is not the case with the N-TEC being to strong yet you keep providing arguments that it is.

Just look at this paragraph, please explain to me how more weapons being used isn't a more balanced and larger meta? That's exactly what is needed.

Literally your only supportive argument to your opinion was the "git gud" one which still sucks especially if you're trying to validate it as a FC-hero.

[Jilleroo 349]

9 hours ago, Tenginima said:

And lastly when it comes to FC, which also ties into the "git gud" and why some people can use it as a strong argument and others can't. Take me as an example, for years now in a row, i've been the absolute top dog in FC, there is almost not a single time where I do not perform at least great compared to the majority of players in FC. I am literally MVP or at least at the top 3 almost every single game, no matter the circumstance, no matter the opposition, and no matter the match. There are OFC exceptions, i'm only human, even I can make mistakes, and sometimes I just want to goof around. But the proof is in the pudding, my consistency in FC is extremely rare, there are very few players that even come close to my consistency and even fewer that reach it and surpass it. Point i'm trying to make? Time spent in a game does not equal skill, that's why people like Ghost and Revoluzzer are sadly, out of their league when it comes to this game, veterans yes, at the high end of skill? No. Relics of the past as I like to say, their feedback is good, but with all due respect, neither of you 2 stand a chance against many of the players that are even bellow me skill-wise, in FC, missions, I can't comment on, but in FC you are out of your league. This is why while you are still allowed to have your opinion, you are factually wrong, your arguments are wrong, when people like me can even make the SWARM seem like an OP weapon, then the fact of the matter is that my opinion, and my words carry more weight. I'm saying this both to stroke my epeen, cause i'm that mood, I don't feel humble today, but I will also be honest. I'm coming after you 2 specifically, because you 2 are the 2 people that I see talk about the NTEC the most, and your arguments are invalid.

Friend, do you know what the term concise means? One of the first things I learned when writing APA is, "clear, concise, and concrete". Your walls of text, your effort you put in, is literally being wasted because of your approach. You can get the same message across without the gratuitous megalomaniacal rants. Just saying.

 

Also, if you're going to call @Revoluzzer and @GhosT out, you should tag them. Otherwise, I wouldn't be surprised if they don't notice unless they choose to sift through that blazing catastrophe.

 

Just my opinion, as I did actually read most of that dumpster fire of a post, Fight Club statistics or scenarios don't mean jack when balancing around missions. There's no vehicles (not really), no objectives to protect, ammo is essentially irrelevant, the game isn't balanced around teams of that size in missions, etc. I could go on as I'm really only getting started, but it's late. Goodnight.

[willistehscrug 0]

On 9/23/2019 at 12:26 AM, Flaws said:

Because that's the sole reason why anyone whines about the N-TEC.

 

That example goes for almost every weapon, not just the OCA. Everything can shred the N-TEC at it's respective range, the N-TEC is versatile but never excels at anything more than it should. If you lose to an N-TEC where you shouldn't, that's your fault, not the weapon balancing's. It's very simple but somehow hard to understand for people who blindly screech that the N-TEC is overpowered and needs nerfing.

can confirm, its as if people are only comparing weapon stats to other weapon stats without any context regarding the game itself. sure the ntec is versatile, but it'll get destroyed by the likes of smg's, carbines and snipers in their respective ranges.  tbh i fear carbine users more than ntec chods though, as they'll expertly maneuver themselves due to the nature of their weapon, and the fact they'll probably be using a 144hz-240hz monitor (<-- feels like cooling jacket on a stock carbine lel). but like what other people have said, id suggest to make other weapons better or more inline with the short ttk meta, or even completely overhaul the system with the longer ttk that was originally envisioned iirc. 

[Spillra 135]

9 minutes ago, willistehscrug said:

tbh i fear carbine users more than ntec chods though, as they'll expertly maneuver themselves due to the nature of their weapon, and the fact they'll probably be using a 144hz-240hz monitor (<-- feels like cooling jacket on a stock carbine lel

this gave me a stroke.

Please elaborate

Edited September 27, 2019 by trouble-maker-enthusiast420

[vsb 6170]

28 minutes ago, trouble-maker-enthusiast420 said:

this gave me a stroke.

Please elaborate

players who main carbine are usually decent to good players 

[Guest]

How do you think i feel about my ogre i am glad your ridiculous ntec is getting nerfed that's what you all get for even mentioning about my ogre.

Edited September 27, 2019 by Guest

[vsb 6170]

3 minutes ago, VirginDiva said:

How do you think i feel about my ogre i am glad your ridiculous ntec is getting nerfed that's what you all get for even mentioning about my ogre.

nobody wanted the ogre nerfed tho, orbit just decided shotguns needed a massive overhaul instead of just some small tweaks

 

oh and they're going to do it again because it worked out so well the last time

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, Solamente said:

nobody wanted the ogre nerfed tho, orbit just decided shotguns needed a massive overhaul instead of just some small tweaks

 

oh and they're going to do it again because it worked out so well the last time

Whatever it was fine in the first place before that pellet system

[GhosT 1301]

11 hours ago, Tenginima said:

ultra rant

 

Boi, you have anger issues.

 

And your rant about me and Revoluzzer is hillarious.

I like how you decide to just randomly pick two out of the many people that want the N-TEC nerfed solely because they've been around for a long time, and then go "lol u guys are bad af xd" without ever seeing us play.

Also funny how you think FC stats are noteworthy and consider someone as "good" or "skilled". It is rather easy to get to the top of the scoreboard in both FCs, especially with meta weapons.

 

I can't speak for Revoluzzer as I've never seen him play, but without leaning myself too far out the window I can say after all these years I'm good enough to hold my grounds, even against some of the best premades. Sure there's people better than me, and I'm completely fine with that. Can't be the best player on earth, mostly because my hyper reaction sweat times are over as I haven't been a kid for quite some time now. Gotta say I do miss my BFBC2 and MW2 times.

 

//Edit: Your "git gud" argument. Now what if I told you my opinion about the N-TEC has formed with me playing it for a long time, not getting wrecked by it and crying as a result of that?

Edited September 27, 2019 by GhosT

[k278593 2]

nerf the ntec ? what jesus . FIRST GET US ENGINE , ONLY talking . nerfing the ntec ahhahaha this weapon already nerfed 

[Spillra 135]

1 hour ago, Solamente said:

players who main carbine are usually decent to good players 

I mean the

 

2 hours ago, willistehscrug said:

 the fact they'll probably be using a 144hz-240hz monitor (<-- feels like cooling jacket on a stock carbine lel).

part

[CookiePuss 5373]

1 hour ago, VirginDiva said:

Whatever it was fine in the first place before that pellet system

The pellet system itself was a buff to all shotguns, Ogre included. 

Range nerf is largely pointless due to the large pellet spread of the Ogre. 

 

Fact is its always been a bad gun, maybe you are just noticing it for the first time. 

 

 

 

Edited September 27, 2019 by CookiePuss