My opinion/feedback on NERFING over the years #chixx

[moxxichixx 148]

(PLEASE FULLY READ BEFORE POSTING ANYTHING BECAUSE THIS TEXT IS GOING IN A TIMELINE ORDER OF GAMERSFIRST PAST UPDATES)

Hello there Little Orbit,

I have been playing APB since Beta and I have seen many weapons getting nerfed over the years and I wanted to share my opinion about it because I think not everyone followed the stream of things when it comes to weapons nerf and buffs. A lot of things I feel like were forgotten since and it is currently affecting how good the gameplay is when it comes to gun fights. First I would like to apologize for my english since it is not my main language.

 

To begin, over the years I seen many patches about adjusting the weapon damage because other players were not satisfied with how fast they would die in certain situations and such. But let's not forget in beta, servers were not divided by threat level (Green, Bronze, Silver, Gold). So of course, yes a lot of the fights could of been rough because the players crying about certain "overpowered" things in the game when facing in reality Gold player threat as we now know.

 

To come to my opinion, I think the game received a lot of nerf that should of not been applied and thought of to start with because now everything seems to be unbalanced and certain weapons are much better than others and players are constantly relying on these to make them go postitive or have a more control on the battlefield simply. But why does everyone is constantly using the same weapons as the others nowadays in 2019? (Ntec, OCA, NFAS, PMG).

 

In the early days in Beta, the Joker SR115 Carbine was one of the most popular weapon because it was a 5 STK (shot-to-kill) weapon which made it one of the best because you have a lot of strafing mobility with it and the ttk was 0.60 seconds. In a 3rd person view game, of course a weapon like this would become very powerful and was considered the NTEC nemesis. Since the the two have almost the same range**. It suffered a nerf later on making it's damage drop from 21% to 19.5% (210 -> 195) per shot making it a 0.75sec ttk which made people a bit more happy about it but I think it is where everything started to go off because more people was taking advantage of this nerf to cry about other guns such as Obeya rifles and FBW pistol and RFP and shotguns later on...

**not anymore since the weapon balance in 2013 or 2014 that led to a rework on all damage on weapon range drop off. I will talk about this later in this text.

 

Some months later, we receive a nerf on weapon hard damage (damage dealt to vehicles). Every weapons hard damage is almost nerfed by half making it almost 3x times slower to take down an enemy cars passing by because you also have to reload in most cases because it won't blow up a car in one magazine. It enforce the players to team up and shoot cars togheter of course but in most situation the guy in the car will always come out alive and be rescued by his team coming over (especially in a low pop game, not a lot of people know how to team up to shoot cars). SO GamersFirst later on hit us with a other patch making it so cars have more health than before making it even HARDER for us to blow a freaking car even if its an entire team shooting it (example: 'Nulander Pioneer/Nomad' with Steel Plating 3). This makes ALL the other cars in the game look USELESS compared to the Vans such as Seyio Espacio and Nulander Pioneer/Nomad with their incredible 1600 health points without any mods (Bishada Rapier has 900 health points). This removed a lot of fun for customizations and a lot less people buying kits on Armas Marketplace since the most useful vehicles in-game right now are the vans.

 

Months later, we get hit by a massive nerf on weapons drop-off range. Making it so every weapons deal even less damage over range than before. Making it so weapons like N-TEC 5 cannot dominate at long range over weapons like Obeya CR762 (marksman) and this one dominate over N-HVR 762 (sniper). We understand GamersFirst tried to make a balance update so good players don't dominate everyone over range with weapons such as a N-TEC or even Joker carbine. I think this is where everything started going down the hill very fast for the game because core aspect for gun fights was in fact unbalanced since the range was playing a REALLY BIG part in the early days. First, weapons such as OCA were harder to use against pistols and carbine users since the range is so small. Secondly, the Snipers and Marksman weapons became master of all because the range for them didn't really matter since most long range had their drop off range set at 70m and 90m for snipers. Pistols and shotguns were most used and most fun to watch in youtube clips (Shini CSG shotgun Gameplay).

 

Suddenly everything became so unbalanced since weapons with a lot of range were dominant in every situations. N-HVR staying 2 shot at every range is like being served cake everyday on a silver plate.  On the CQC side the FBW pistol and RFP was becoming so powerful because of their damage becoming dominant in medium and close combat since range didn't "matter" anymore. 5 shots to kill for the FBW making it 0.80 sec ttk close his familiar friend the Joker SR115 Carbine now a 6 STK weapon with 0.75sec ttk (0.05 sec difference but the weapon is not so different even for the range & recoil) making it basicly a baby Joker Carbine. Now you start to see a pattern coming up... NERF NERF NERF. The range patch destroyed how the weapons system worked in this game since weapons are getting less unique. Everyone start using the N-HVR with their quickswitch method (shoot from a pistol then switch to NHVR and shoot right away to gain a kill). This ""unique"" thecnique become popular so quick that it actually shows that people are opting for more range on their weapons because they want to get the most of it when it comes to TTK. Almost no penality on range for an ACT 44 or Colby RSA making it the best of the best. But the amount of tears are growing and growing.

 

Many updates later on are applied to APB to nerf pistols like FBW to make it a 6 STK and other weapons such as ACT 44 and RFP to have more bloom. Yet despite all this huge range patch rework that everyone seems to forget the range stays the same...Unchanged. Weapons with more range still dominate. Everyone uses shotguns in CQC for the power output and for long range you already guessed it, N-HVR and Obeya CR762/OBIR. A small choice of weapons are now available to you making the game less unique/rewarding and less explorations to do. Again later on, GamersFirst hit us with a new patch and nerf damage on shotguns from 80% dmg to 63% dmg per shot for CSG shotguns and something similar for JG couterpart. (As I am talking about this we are getting new rework again for shotguns...sigh).

 

Why is the damage always the reason why a weapon is so overpowered and not the global range? Can we just try to look for other possibilities instead of nerfing everything we find too powerful to use against a low level player? I think the range damage ramp is the real reason why everything is so unbalanced and also all the number of nerf that was applied for weapons to make them more "balanced" against other type of weapons when in reality the range is the real reason why everything is going downhill. Why does a weapon have to absolutetly become a pea shooter after it reach its minimal damage range.

 

I think we should stop nerfing weapons to make them slower to kill. I think we should go back to vanilla and make the range back to what it was. Where a OCA could beat a Joker SSR15 Carbine at 40m if you had the aim and where a Obeya CR762 player wasn't affraid of peaking a Sniper to melt them with 5 clear shot at 90m. The skill cieling was way better in Beta!

 

To conclude, I think Little Orbit should really go back to formula which means they should stick with the old damage system and RANGE then they could really start working on what is the problem about weapon balance. Please don't go down the path of nerfing every weapon in the game LO, we already suffered a lot over the years for it. Every "GOOD" player is regening faster than the damage they receive with Clothing Agent 3 and everyone also use a Sceyio Espacio/Nulander Pioneer as a freaking tank. All the same weapons in missions... NTEC, PMG, OBIR.... nothing is fun anymore. PLEASE GO BACK TO VANILLA APB (IN TERM OF WEAPONS DAMAGE & RANGE) and rebuff the hard damage too because vehicles are giving way too much protection now.

 

I probably forgot to mention more update about nerf and weapons but I am getting a headache trying to keep track of everything as I type this super long text full of juicy information for Little Orbit. Oh and don't even let me get started on Grenade spam now but at least they are trying to fix it right now with consumables...

 

BACK TO VANILLA PLEASE! IT AIN'T ANARCHY IF EVERYONE IS RUNNING AROUND WITH NERF GUNS!!!

Have a great day!

 

Edited July 25, 2019 by moxxichixx

[vsb 6171]

idk tbh

[Defibrillator 132]

Improvise, adapt, overcome. It has always been so.

Remember the ir3 nerf and how it affected guns?

 

That dint stop players from using it. Oh yea they started using ir2, heavy barrel 1 and cooling jacket.

 

When vasc2 troublemaker was a daredevil, everyone was using it. When a nerf was bought onto it, ppl moved to other smgs.

 

Nerfing guns are a good thing if you'd ask me, it allows ppl to try out various possibilities. Tell me when was the last time you have tried heavy barrel mod?

[Goldtiger 133]

I partially agree; nerfing too often can be unhealthy for a game but at the same time, if something is too powerful it should be nerfed. For instance, since there's no reason to choose any other AR over the ntec, the ntec should recieve an adjustment to make it on par with the other ARs. Sometimes, changing popular weapons isn't the correct thing to do; perhaps it's better to change weapons that are weaker in comparison to make them more on par with the popular gun. It all just really depends on the situations, but with the ntec example I used, it's clear dominance in every factor, for instance, is the reason why that would be toned down. The FBW and so on were clearly toned down because the TTK was too low on the weapons, especially with how people were starting to familiarize themselves with the fire pattern and completely shred people with the guns.

[CookiePuss 5378]

7 hours ago, Defibrillator said:

Nerfing guns are a good thing if you'd ask me, it allows ppl to try out various possibilities. Tell me when was the last time you have tried heavy barrel mod?

Uhhh...HB2 N-SSW says hello. 

[Defibrillator 132]

47 minutes ago, CookiePuss said:

Uhhh...HB2 N-SSW says hello. 

Meant to say its not the most "feasible" mods on many guns..it can only be slapped on certain guns like union and ssw. Do u recommend it to use it on shaw556, alig,medusa or eurayle?

[Hexerin 1140]

1 hour ago, CookiePuss said:

Uhhh...HB2 N-SSW says hello. 

Why would you ever put Heavy Barrel on the NSSW? You gain nothing, while losing damage for it.

 

Unless you're referencing how it used to be a thing years ago, in which case carry on.

[crusade 89]

9 hours ago, moxxichixx said:

 

To conclude, I think Little Orbit should really go back to formula which means they should stick with the old damage system and RANGE then they could really start working on what is the problem about weapon balance.

 

Thanks for the history lesson. But the FBW being lethal up to 75 meters, and the N-tec being lethal up to 99 meters were significant detriments to weapon balance (especially considering people still cry about the N-tec). There are a lot of tweaks that still need to be made in regards to weapon balance, but reverting back to vanilla APB:R would be such a laughably huge mistake.

 

Shotguns have never been in a good spot in this game. From Matt's latest post, I see they have finally figured them out. Cheers.

 

Sniper rifles dominating in sniper ranges? Who would've thought.

 

Sorry brother, but there's a lot of bad points in your post.

[Lato 188]

oof

[CookiePuss 5378]

5 hours ago, Defibrillator said:

Meant to say its not the most "feasible" mods on many guns..it can only be slapped on certain guns like union and ssw. Do u recommend it to use it on shaw556, alig,medusa or eurayle?

Hmmm... I've never tried.

Zeus is a beast though. 

[VanilleKeks 737]

5 hours ago, Hexerin said:

Why would you ever put Heavy Barrel on the NSSW? You gain nothing, while losing damage for it.

 

Unless you're referencing how it used to be a thing years ago, in which case carry on.

It's still a thing? I used it just a month or two ago. What you gain is having almost non existant recoil while full autoing. IR3 is certainly more rewarding if you put the practice in but if you just wanna clap some dudes in baylan with 0 effort, go HB2.

Edited July 26, 2019 by VanilleKeks

[CookiePuss 5378]

5 hours ago, Hexerin said:

Why would you ever put Heavy Barrel on the NSSW? You gain nothing, while losing damage for it.

 

Unless you're referencing how it used to be a thing years ago, in which case carry on.

Like my man Nilla wafers said.

It has no effect on stk/ttk while allowing you to full auto up to 50m with near pinpoint accuracy. 

[LilyV3 323]

the real question is: Sid "vanilla" you want to go back to, had more weapon balance? I don't know how true vanilla was since I started playing in 2012. If not we just swap one more or less balanced system with the current more or less balanced one.

 

But I admit I enjoyed some of the guns having more range, like using the CCG to snipe people at the rooftop of B(e)acon.

[vsb 6171]

3 hours ago, CookiePuss said:

Like my man Nilla wafers said.

It has no effect on stk/ttk while allowing you to full auto up to 50m with near pinpoint accuracy. 

you can full auto all the way out to its 65m dropoff, basically giving you an ntec with more range and more bullets

[CookiePuss 5378]

2 minutes ago, Glaciers said:

you can full auto all the way out to its 65m dropoff, basically giving you an ntec with more range and more bullets

Plus that sexy "chug chug chug chug" firing sound

[moxxichixx 148]

3 hours ago, LilyV3 said:

the real question is: Sid "vanilla" you want to go back to, had more weapon balance? I don't know how true vanilla was since I started playing in 2012. If not we just swap one more or less balanced system with the current more or less balanced one.

 

But I admit I enjoyed some of the guns having more range, like using the CCG to snipe people at the rooftop of B(e)acon.

It was more balanced yes, just the Joker SR115 Carbine nerf was good. Other than that remember in Beta there was no threat restricted district... so noobs could get matched againt high level player easily...

10 hours ago, Crusade said:

Thanks for the history lesson. But the FBW being lethal up to 75 meters, and the N-tec being lethal up to 99 meters were significant detriments to weapon balance (especially considering people still cry about the N-tec). There are a lot of tweaks that still need to be made in regards to weapon balance, but reverting back to vanilla APB:R would be such a laughably huge mistake.

 

Shotguns have never been in a good spot in this game. From Matt's latest post, I see they have finally figured them out. Cheers.

 

Sniper rifles dominating in sniper ranges? Who would've thought.

 

Sorry brother, but there's a lot of bad points in your post.

^ please go read back my post

Also as I read the replies I can already see a lot of you didn't read fully. Yes a freaking sniper dominate at range but when it does at every range and other weapons can't do jack shit against it, even a shotgun then yes it is fucking overpowered so giving more range to other weapons like I said would be ideal! WHY DO YOU THINK HVR GOT A RANGE DROP OFF REWORK  by LITTLE ORBIT DUUHH ?!?!?!?! not to mention NO SWAY and 3rd PERSON VIEW...

12 hours ago, CookiePuss said:

Uhhh...HB2 N-SSW says hello. 

Not even op in my opinion since the damage is nothing after 65m and the bloom is shittier than Ntec... so Ntec with IR3 is better... HELLLO ?!?!?!?! also NSSW came after the range patch nerf so PLEEEEEEEEEEEEASE GO BACK READING MY FREAKING POST BEFORE POSTING FOR CRYING OUT LOUD. Not to mention also that Obeya rifle and OBIR clutch NSSW

 

Merged.

 

By going back to vanilla everything would be fix. Even the old HVR would have a purpose... The RANGE RAMPS should of never been touched imo. Joker SR115 Carbine was the only worth nerf in all the years

Edited July 26, 2019 by moxxichixx

[CookiePuss 5378]

32 minutes ago, moxxichixx said:

 the bloom is shittier than Ntec... so Ntec with IR3 is better

It doesn't bloom at all. That's the entire point, HB2 makes the bloom reset perfectly after every shot when full auto. 

 

You can't full auto an ntec past like 5m. Not to mention 65m is still more than 57m. 

 

But that's not really the point, the point was HB2 On the N-SSW is broken good. 

35 minutes ago, moxxichixx said:

 PLEEEEEEEEEEEEASE GO BACK READING MY FREAKING POST

 Sorry my friend, I've not got the time to read all that rambling, though to my credit that's why I didn't respond to it either. 

[WorldDominator 61]

14 hours ago, Crusade said:

Shotguns have never been in a good spot in this game. From Matt's latest post, I see they have finally figured them out. Cheers.

Not sure if you're being sarcastic, but they were at their finest spot before LO changed them the first time.

[wHisHi 206]

2015 - amazing weapon balance. Maybe troublemaker was too op, but other weapons were coool

[crusade 89]

10 hours ago, WorldDominator said:

Not sure if you're being sarcastic, but they were at their finest spot before LO changed them the first time.

Agreed. However, at it's best doesn't necessarily mean good.

[Genobee 143]

Or how about they bump up the TTK slightly. The topic has been discussed to death and that'd provide a whole lot of benefits with only a few downsides.

 

Things like:

• Maps were designed around a longer TTK
• More room for niche weapon designs
• Could permit other stats than accuracy to dictate balance. Which is a comically bad idea to begin with, just look at things now
• Gives both twitch aim and tracking a chance to shine together. Rather than just flailing like a coked out hooker having a siezure being the ideal approach (I know, just a tad bit exaggerated). Tactics and overall skill would matter more if it was just a little bit higher
• Because super short TTK's just plain aren't rewarding and feel awful. Especially for the person that is getting shot

 

Right now they are backed into a corner with no way out. I'll just never understand why even the new company is so adamant about keeping the time to kill so god damned short. It's an objective based game that used to reward tactics. Not so much these days. That part of the game died a long time ago thanks to countless decisions that went against the community at every turn. It baffles me. Just, why? I'm hoping LO experiments with the concept because I feel that there's a massively better way to go about it all that is going untouched. 

 

I hope they know that the attempt G1 made at testing out a higher TTK was flawed from the get-go. It should NOT be used to prove anything one way or the other. Their RTW TTK districts barely functioned. 

[KNickz 46]

hello my name is shotgunner and i am OUTRAGED

[Mozie 54]

So... I dont playmissions but I liked 2013 apb  

Edited July 27, 2019 by Mozie
;);)

[Noob_Guardian 417]

The way i see it, they made the unbalanced mess you called fun into a balanced mess with weapon niches. SMGS are usefull at SMG range but not rifle now etc. Can it be a pain? Sure, if you're new. Otherwise it's fine. I started before all the weapon nerfs and remember them. I'm glad they gave weapons defined niches.

 

Vehicles are preferably only destroyed either by concs/grenades now or via anti-vehicle weapons. Which is fine because having it any other way negates the need for AV weapons unless you just want to blow up a vehicle extra fast. It's made car fights longer, and given newbies and others a better chance of driving past some enemies before getting blown to bits and face melted. I always have to roll my eyes at people who bother to shoot at driving vehicles. You're wasting your ammo and time, thanks for giving me another 3-15 seconds to get to the objective and complete it while you scramble for a car after wasting your time.

Edited July 29, 2019 by Noob_Guardian

[Noob_Guardian 417]

On 7/27/2019 at 3:00 PM, Genobee said:

Or how about they bump up the TTK slightly. The topic has been discussed to death and that'd provide a whole lot of benefits with only a few downsides.

 

Things like:

• Maps were designed around a longer TTK
• More room for niche weapon designs
• Could permit other stats than accuracy to dictate balance. Which is a comically bad idea to begin with, just look at things now
• Gives both twitch aim and tracking a chance to shine together. Rather than just flailing like a coked out hooker having a siezure being the ideal approach (I know, just a tad bit exaggerated). Tactics and overall skill would matter more if it was just a little bit higher
• Because super short TTK's just plain aren't rewarding and feel awful. Especially for the person that is getting shot

 

Right now they are backed into a corner with no way out. I'll just never understand why even the new company is so adamant about keeping the time to kill so god damned short. It's an objective based game that used to reward tactics. Not so much these days. That part of the game died a long time ago thanks to countless decisions that went against the community at every turn. It baffles me. Just, why? I'm hoping LO experiments with the concept because I feel that there's a massively better way to go about it all that is going untouched. 

 

I hope they know that the attempt G1 made at testing out a higher TTK was flawed from the get-go. It should NOT be used to prove anything one way or the other. Their RTW TTK districts barely functioned. 

barely functioned and Some weapons during them felt like they were purposely messed with to prevent people from liking the districts/test so they didnt have to bother with balancing (imo). That's not mentioning some weapon changes not being similar to what RTW had (dunno but i remember threads complaining about mechanics not being the same as RTW for certain guns i think???)

 

If they had bothered with more effort into it I think it could have worked better.