To matt regarding intigrating BattleEye

[Seedy 324]

1 hour ago, weissraider said:

I think its a failure to make it possible to cheat in the first place. 

you obviously dont make computer games for PC.

[vsb 6171]

2 hours ago, LaQuandra said:

Again. How does that mean he is against banning? You think he supports and encourages people to continue to cheat in his game because if he bans them it's a failure? You took what he said out of context. If someone is cheating in their game he sees that as a failure on his part and no longer wanted to use name and shame policies because of that. He doesn't want to celebrate the fact that people were cheating in his game and were banned for it unlike the previous company.

i dont think cooky is saying matt is against banning, as obviously the player cheated and should be punished, but that given the attitude towards cheating whether orbit would support allowing cheaters another chance after that punishment (being allowed to reroll on a fresh account with no tracking or w/e)

 

for all we know it could be  a combination of solutions where your fresh accounts are tracked but not banned until theres a flag, and after a certain number of "chances" you just start getting autobanned - this seems to have been g1's solution, albeit they were far too lenient with the number of second chances imo

[LaQuandra 91]

1 minute ago, BXNNXD said:

i dont think cooky is saying matt is against banning, as obviously the player cheated and should be punished, but that given the attitude towards cheating whether orbit would support allowing cheaters another chance after that punishment (being allowed to reroll on a fresh account with no tracking or w/e)

 

for all we know it could be  a combination of solutions where your fresh accounts are tracked but not banned until theres a flag, and after a certain number of "chances" you just start getting autobanned - this seems to have been g1's solution, albeit they were far too lenient with the number of second chances imo

 

Didn't G1 say you could reroll but still banned rerollers at their own discretion whether they cheated or not? 

 

Considering it is a free to play game and there are numerous ways to hide your true identity, who cares if a "cheater" wants to reroll as long as they aren't cheating? If they cheat again shouldn't the anti-cheat catch them? Seems like tracking said cheater would be impossible if the reroller wanted to stay anonymous. Obviously cheaters do not value their accounts as much as legitimate players considering they put their accounts at risk each time they log in. 

 

I never got the impression that LO was lenient on cheaters or had any positive attitude. He just stated that the old anti cheat system was heavily flawed and didn't have much faith in it. Not sure where this whole idea that he wouldn't perma ban anyone came from.

[TheAceNinja 38]

1 hour ago, LaQuandra said:

 

Didn't G1 say you could reroll but still banned rerollers at their own discretion whether they cheated or not? 

 

Cheaters have always been freely able to re-roll and play legit. That's why anyone who's ever used the "Ban evasion" excuse is just downright dumb. 

[CookiePuss 5378]

5 hours ago, LaQuandra said:

 

Didn't G1 say you could reroll but still banned rerollers at their own discretion whether they cheated or not? 

 

 

Only Flaws.

But if you believe that, well I dont know what to tell you.

[Flaws 1033]

1 hour ago, CookiePuss said:

Only Flaws.

But if you believe that, well I dont know what to tell you.

I think you should reconsider what you believe in and what you do not. If what I was saying all along wasn't true, there would not be mass unbans on all ff'd accounts waiting to happen right after the implementation of BattlEye. I wonder, how many more people need to confirm that FF was used incorrectly and was abused by GM's for their personal interest, like in mine and other cases 

 

How far does it go for people like you?

Edited June 7, 2018 by Flaws

[CookiePuss 5378]

1 minute ago, Flaws said:

I think you should reconsider what you believe in and what you do not. If what I was saying all along wasn't true, there would not be mass unbans on all ff'd accounts waiting to happen right after the implementation of BattlEye. I wonder, how many more people need to confirm that FF was used incorrectly and was abused by GM's for their personal interest, like in mine and other cases 

Actually, thats a fair point Flaws. I do have to acknowledge that   

Good luck with LO and BattlEye, and congrats on getting so many accounts back. 

[TheAceNinja 38]

1 minute ago, Flaws said:

I think you should reconsider what you believe in and what you do not. If what I was saying all along wasn't true, there would not be mass unbans on all ff'd accounts waiting to happen right after the implementation of BattlEye. I wonder, how many more people need to confirm that FF was used incorrectly and was abused by GM's for their personal interest, like in mine and other cases 

Get out of here Flaws. You're literally the only person who's been banned for "Ban Evasion". Definitely has nothing to do with you hard locking on accident on stream multiple times, doing the same in your youtube videos, and even getting completely and utterly exposed by Goat when you tried to come out with your pathetic "Proof I'm not a botter" video.

 

Name one other person who's been "False banned for evasion" 14 times like you have. 

I can't wait to hear your excuses once you get banned again with BE. Still gonna try and say some random GM has a vendetta against you? Or some troll "Mass reported" you? 

 

You'd think after getting caught so many times you'd finally admit it, but guess some people will take obvious lies to their grave.

[Flaws 1033]

Just now, TheAceNinja said:

Get out of here Flaws. You're literally the only person who's been banned for "Ban Evasion". Definitely has nothing to do with you hard locking on accident on stream multiple times, doing the same in your youtube videos, and even getting completely and utterly exposed by Goat when you tried to come out with your pathetic "Proof I'm not a botter" video.

 

Name one other person who's been "False banned for evasion" 14 times like you have. 

I can't wait to hear your excuses once you get banned again with BE. Still gonna try and say some random GM has a vendetta against you? Or some troll "Mass reported" you? 

 

You'd think after getting caught so many times you'd finally admit it, but guess some people will take obvious lies to their grave.

You are quite wrong in a lot of those things you said, but instead of starting a pointless argument with a silver, I'll let you see for yourself, once BattlEye is implemented.

[Provocate 14]

Flaws are you the new pariah to an ocean of gold-plated silvers? How does it feel to have an entirely new company come in and solidify everything you ever complained about, yet *most* people still sling doo doo ur way. The only thing that changed about apb since we left was new faces, same old mentalities tho. The boys and I can't wait to meet all these new faces :)

[niblyv 11]

10 hours ago, LaQuandra said:

Yeah, failed for the fact people were able to cheat in the game so therefore he doesn't want to broadcast it.

 

You make no sense but that is par for the course so carry on like usual. 

Thats not what he said at all tho? He said banning is a failure because they lost a player. AKA HWID banning = permanently losing a player(not really) so it seems unlikely he would be interested in permanently banning people and stopping them from rerolling

[Musul Man 60]

Remember that many have cheated because everyone was cheating, and they wanted to stay competitive. It was hacker wars. It pretty much is right now the worst.

 

I'd say its a good move from LO to unban everyone. But if I were them I'd be taking notes on the names of those that are taking advantage of the situation right now and are ragehacking. Once BE kicks in I'd have them banned. Those cannot come from Fairfight ban mistakes.

[CookiePuss 5378]

At the risk of this becoming a whole thing, I wanted to chime in again

 

People who know me know that I was a big champion of the "no such thing as bans for ban evasion / false bans are EXTREMELY rare / GMs, Tiggs, and G1 didnt just ban people for no reason" cause. Then Matt Scott told us all how wrong I was. 

 

We are all getting a fresh start with LO. 

Instead of dwelling in the past, maybe its time to look to the future. 

 

Btw, thanks to Flaws for his comment earlier, really snapped me out of my old thinking. 

[Provocate 14]

3 minutes ago, CookiePuss said:

At the risk of this becoming a whole thing, I wanted to chime in again

 

People who know me know that I was a big champion of the "no such thing as bans for ban evasion / false bans are EXTREMELY rare / GMs, Tiggs, and G1 didnt just ban people for no reason" cause. Then Matt Scott told us all how wrong I was. 

 

We are all getting a fresh start with LO. 

Instead of dwelling in the past, maybe its time to look to the future. 

 

Btw, thanks to Flaws for his comment earlier, really snapped me out of my old thinking. 

Maybe things aren't entirely the same as they used to be. Good on you man :)

[Excalibur! 207]

Second chances means more time players suffering by cheaters... there is plenty of people not giving a single fuck and they cheat like they please.

 

But if the end of this is to perfect BE into spotting them, then i would accept it. Is the only reasonable excuse i could find.

 

[Kewlin 692]

Just going to throw it out there that HWID and IP bans are objectively bad and should not be used under any circumstances.

[TheAceNinja 38]

1 hour ago, Kewlin said:

Just going to throw it out there that HWID and IP bans are objectively bad and should not be used under any circumstances.

They're also incredibly easy to bypass. 

[hack 96]

1 hour ago, TheAceNinja said:

They're also incredibly easy to bypass. 

No, They are easy to spoof but not easy to bypass. You can spoof your HWID and IP, but if the person who sits in support or the moderation team knows what he is doing he will be able to trace your OG HWID and your old IP easily.

[vsb 6171]

44 minutes ago, hack said:

No, They are easy to spoof but not easy to bypass. You can spoof your HWID and IP, but if the person who sits in support or the moderation team knows what he is doing he will be able to trace your OG HWID and your old IP easily.

username checks out

[Ohshii 215]

It's not easy to just ban every cheater or violator, even in free games. Matt Scott clearly understands that APB is not just a regular TPS/FPS game, it's an MMO TPS and far more MMO than TPS. Hell, the shooting aspects to APB are pretty dated; one big hitbox, no headshots, you can even shoot over peoples heads and hit them or between their legs, I mean damn. You'd think after games like Soldier of Fortune came out in 2000 with 26 hitbox locations, APB would at least make the space between peoples legs not part of the hitbox. Even Rise of the Triad for Commodore 64 didn't have that problem lol. With that being said, the creative aspect to APB is what has always made APB worth continuing to play. The MMO aspect.

 

FPS companies are ok with instant bans because their games are either low cost games to buy, go on sale a lot or are free2play. Example: APB, CSGO, Rust, Fortnite.

 

MMO companies are not ok with instant bans because they need to do a lot more work to retain their playerbase, thus a strike style system is used to try and "rehabilitate" offenders. Example: World of Warcraft, SWG, DAOC, BDO.

 

The only time it's not that straight forward is when you have hybrid games that incorporate aspects from both genres of games. Some companies use a mix of both instant bans and a strike system to enforce their rules. This method allows them to instant ban people who are cheating in aspects of the game such as PVP and the rest of the community is on a standard MMO strike count system. However, depending on if the game is more MMO than FPS or vise versa will dictate how their Standard Operating Procedure works.  Example: The Division is a MMO first, shooting game second. They use the standard strike count system for enforcing rules while still opting to instant ban cheaters in the dark zone.

 

Games that try to do a high level of hybridization between FPS/TPS games and MMOs tend to run into that grey area where they really struggle to find a successful SOP mainly because any game that has any MMO aspects to it requires the company to maintain a steady population vs instant banning in FPS/TPS games. Examples of this are games like Overwatch, Tera, Fortnite (because PVE accts get banned if they cheat in PVP and the PVE population in that game is super small as it is) and Trove.

 

That's why Matt Scott doesn't believe in just banning anybody anytime something happens, nor does he believe in running a GM department based on biasedness and personal feelings. APB is an MMO first, TPS second. He has to retain the player base of this game over everything, or buying all of G1 will have been for nothing. Even with all the future updates and changes to the game, if every single player in the game right now got up and quit, LO would still fail and it'd be just like G1 in the long run. The biggest change Matt Scott and LO realize they need to make is retaining players. Obviously that starts with an anti-cheat that actually works. But with all the changes they're doing now and in the future, the #1 goal will always be, retaining the player base. AKA the biggest mistake G1 made. More players is more money and more money means more content and more content means more players stick around. The circle of liiiifffee~ ^^

 

Edited June 7, 2018 by Ohshii

[Salvick 248]

22 minutes ago, Ohshii said:

~snip~

Accurate.

 

So essentially what really matters is,

 

A) Attract and retain players to merge them properly with the current player base.

and

B) Get as much freebies as possible to finally jumping the fence of spending money in the game since once a player spends any amount of money for the first time then it is when the chances that such player will eventually spend more and probably keep spending indefinitely are increased considerably, once they enter the cycle also will remain loyal to the game they "invested real money" on, and ofc all this as long as the game can provide its customers with the right and good quality content its players are expecting to get.

 

And cheaters are not an issue to be so worried about once we said this, they are going to get address this issue not by completely banning every single cheater, but by keeping the issue invisible and controlling the damage it does while aiming to re-insert every player that breaks the rules to ensure that the product (freebies) as same as the customers (buyers) will both keep feeding the cycle of sales the company needs, adding more content every time to satisfy the players that already bought everything they can/want  at the same time that they make sure to get more newcomers hooked with the game purchasing stuff but enabling them to catch up with the gap between the ones who own tons of items since everyone will get tempted to get the stuff they see the other players have but is key to earn their loyalty in all aspect before the newcomers gets convinced of starting spending money, since the product they sell here actually is auto-advertised by the other players showing-off everything they got in-game, and the game must offer both, proper anticheat, and plenty of players to play with.

[neophobia 216]

18 hours ago, CookiePuss said:

Given Matts stance on banning, I would be shocked if IP / HWID blocks became a thing.

also not to mention that they are practically useless if it comes down to it

[Rade 54]

1 hour ago, Ohshii said:

That's why Matt Scott doesn't believe in just banning anybody anytime something happens, nor does he believe in running a GM department based on biasedness and personal feelings. APB is an MMO first, TPS second. He has to retain the player base of this game over everything, or buying all of G1 will have been for nothing. Even with all the future updates and changes to the game, if every single player in the game right now got up and quit, LO would still fail and it'd be just like G1 in the long run. The biggest change Matt Scott and LO realize they need to make is retaining players. Obviously that starts with an anti-cheat that actually works. But with all the changes they're doing now and in the future, the #1 goal will always be, retaining the player base. AKA the biggest mistake G1 made.

 

 

LO is a business with profit at its core, don't be deluded into thinking anything else. For them sustained growth and enticing players to invest in their product is the priority. A key ingredient to sustained growth is the retention of existing players but don't be surprised if they make changes that lose a few old prunes in favor of attracting a wider audience.

[neophobia 216]

17 hours ago, Seedy said:

you obviously dont make computer games for PC.

destiny 2 has proven that they can make it basically impossible (except for the stuff they implemented themselves... (aim assist when using controller (emulation too)))

 

but that came at the cost of overlays like discord, overwolf etc. i'd take that - but I guess it's not too great on a Steam game.

Edited June 7, 2018 by neophobia

[willistehscrug 0]

screw hwid bans, just emulate fortnite and make crap server sided so closets would be hindered by a decent paywall