Revert the assault rifle changes G1 applied

[BrandonBranderson 672]

15 hours ago, Fortune Runner said:

^^^ no idea how it is relevent but i do hate the hitboxes not being fixed and then the curve mechanics would not be needed.

I forget the exact reason why they implemented the curve mechanics but I believe it had something to do with OSMAW and cars used for cover.

Anyone know for sure? I can not remember clearly.

They were introduced because they were part of Qwentle's "Vision" for APB.  Pretty awful idea tbh.  All it did was turn a lot of guns into RNG cannons, and in the case of the M-1922 Typewriter, made it useless.

[Mitne 724]

2 hours ago, AsgerLund said:

Even though this is also an important topic, I think a perc buff should have its own thread, in order to not derail this thread.

I'm an ardent believer of keeping threads on-topic!

1 perc deals 1000 dmg.

Seems like fair balance.

Edited April 15, 2019 by Mitne

[KyoukiDotExe 231]

19 hours ago, CookiePuss said:

Honest question... What's the relation between these changes and "hits are not being seen by the server".

 

Thanks in advance.

I can not confirm this, but that's what it feels like. I have been playing since 2012 and I did notice those things prior to those changes made to the game. Sure NTEC was strong back then, you could use a nomod ntec and kill everyone. But it didn't need this curve system where the gun feels in a terrible state. New players can hardly do much without switching to long range guns. You are being forced to do so, even in situations where the battle is in your favor.

16 hours ago, Noob_Guardian said:

yeah it's worse, its lets buff the ntec

16 hours ago, Noob_Guardian said:

 

Uh what? Assault rifle players aka ntec users, have the most adaptability of any weapon. If you are having issues, then your tactics are off, or the opponents are clearly better. Assault rifles are fine as is, and are not meant to be mid-long range weapons. They are close-mid range weapons. May I suggest learning your weapon niches and playing around them effectively?

No, the changes basically made it so recoil reset to base and accuracy reset to base after you stopped firing for x amount of time, rather than have it restart from where you fired before.

the AR changes have nothing to do with false positive shots

I don't want buffs, I want to be able to have a stable and consistent experience. Not a roll of the dice like for example CS:GO has with it's shooting mechs. I don't want the game with only NTEC, I want every gun to be viable in some situations and being good in some. I feel like PMG, OCA, Obir, Obeya are all in a great spot. Just feels like when playing any AR you still lose some winnable battles even if you play it smart or use advance tactics.

 

5 hours ago, Lign said:

Overall ntec and Atac are well balanced, they just need to get nerfed in some specific things.

Basically, ntec has insane accuracy in tap firing, you can spray three first bullets and be able to hit them all from 60-70m. That’s the reason why it overshoots obeya from 60m even with damage dropoff. It needs a nerfed bloom recovery to make practical fire rate in tapping slower. Oh, and of cource remove benefiting from hunting sight in jump

 

Atac just needs much bigger recoil because currently it shoots like a laser. It’s a shame the weapon was made to compete with current cqc has much much better accuracy and be able to pixel picking from the corner

I feel ATAC is in a fine spot. Just the ntec/AR guns right now just have a less chance of winning against strong long range. Even if you:

- tapfire the gun,

- use IR3/HS3/3PS3 combination,

- being crouched,

All these options above should increase my chances since it does for the other guns where it does not give you a random base of luck when the shot registers or not.

 

Also worth indicating to all of this is that sometimes the gun feels very strong where you can do very well and don't seem to "ghost" or "miss" your shots, why is this?

[Fortune Runner 796]

Do we have a list of things to be reverted and/or outright replaced like the curve mechanics?

[Lign 361]

18 hours ago, KyoukiDotExe said:

I feel ATAC is in a fine spot. Just the ntec/AR guns right now just have a less chance of winning against strong long range. Even if you:

- tapfire the gun,

- use IR3/HS3/3PS3 combination,

- being crouched,

All these options above should increase my chances since it does for the other guns where it does not give you a random base of luck when the shot registers or not.

 

Also worth indicating to all of this is that sometimes the gun feels very strong where you can do very well and don't seem to "ghost" or "miss" your shots, why is this?

I don't have any problem with ghost shots or missing on my ntec. Tapfiring is very accurate on this gun like I barely miss any shot if I don't lose my aim.

 

And I'm not the only one who doesn't have any problem with ntec, just look at most 'pRo gAmInG' streams, mostly russians who main ntec for the entire life. It's just stupid that the gun outperforms obeya and obir in 60-65m range with damage drop off. The problem is that the minimum ttk to maintain the maximum accuracy on ntec for tapfiring is between 0.8-0.85sec in 60-65m range.

 

If you try to shoot that fast with obeya, you will fall to the maximum bloom so quickly and rng thing. To not miss a shot on obeya in 60m I already need to shoot much slower than it's intended firerate to keep the maximum accuracy

18 hours ago, KyoukiDotExe said:

Just feels like when playing any AR you still lose some winnable battles even if you play it smart or use advance tactics.

If you feel like that then why competitive players who made their own rules with allowing 2 ntecs per team for arranged matches and for cw always choose stacking 2ntec instead of one and for example oca. Basically, it always goes with that stack: 1 obir/obeya 2ntecs and oscar. Never cqc with only maybe few exceptions. But again if any team picks oca for the specific situation(close range spot etc.) The opposite team rarely chooses to switch as well and performs without it as good as always 

Edited April 16, 2019 by Lign

[vsb 6174]

22 hours ago, KyoukiDotExe said:

Not a roll of the dice like for example CS:GO has with it's shooting mechs

last i checked csgo has pretty predictable recoil patterns, especially compared to apb

[KyoukiDotExe 231]

4 hours ago, BXNNXD said:

last i checked csgo has pretty predictable recoil patterns, especially compared to apb

Yeah recoil is predictable pattern in  both games, but that pattern or the area it hits isn't always 100% the same. Regardless it's not about the recoil, it's the hitdetection or registration, it just fails much more since those changes.

[BlatMan 717]

1 hour ago, KyoukiDotExe said:

Yeah recoil is predictable pattern in  both games, but that pattern or the area it hits isn't always 100% the same. Regardless it's not about the recoil, it's the hitdetection or registration, it just fails much more since those changes.

The problem is if you tap fire and wait for the crosshair to close, the weapon increase bloom and recoil more each shot. It doesn't feel natural since it only applies to certain weapons. There's no indication for when the curve timer resets. There's also no information publicly available on how the recoil and bloom curves are calculated.

Edited April 16, 2019 by MrsHappyPenguin

[Noob_Guardian 418]

3 hours ago, MrsHappyPenguin said:

The problem is if you tap fire and wait for the crosshair to close, the weapon increase bloom and recoil more each shot. It doesn't feel natural since it only applies to certain weapons. There's no indication for when the curve timer resets. There's also no information publicly available on how the recoil and bloom curves are calculated.

if you toyed around with the guns enough, you'd realize as soon as the reticule closes you get full accuracy and it resets, most guns have a faster rate of fire and you have to tap fire/burst fire to be accurate. If you tap fire too fast before it hits full recovery, then it wont fully recover and it blooms and recoils more. CJ may effect this as well, i am not sure.

[vsb 6174]

45 minutes ago, Noob_Guardian said:

if you toyed around with the guns enough, you'd realize as soon as the reticule closes you get full accuracy and it resets, most guns have a faster rate of fire and you have to tap fire/burst fire to be accurate. If you tap fire too fast before it hits full recovery, then it wont fully recover and it blooms and recoils more. CJ may effect this as well, i am not sure.

he's talking about the curve mechanics, which don't reset just because your gun reaches max accuracy again

[Noob_Guardian 418]

Just now, BXNNXD said:

he's talking about the curve mechanics, which don't reset just because your gun reaches max accuracy again

I havn't really experienced that issue... I think i vaguely know what he's talking about simply because it's gotten me killed a few times, but I've always assumed my reticule wasnt fully recovered before i fired again which caused it.

[vsb 6174]

2 minutes ago, Noob_Guardian said:

I havn't really experienced that issue... I think i vaguely know what he's talking about simply because it's gotten me killed a few times, but I've always assumed my reticule wasnt fully recovered before i fired again which caused it.

its pretty easy to do on the ntec - iirc the 3rd and 4th shots have "exponentially" more bloom, if you time it right (or wrong, technically) its possible to shoot from max accuracy and still get the more significant bloom of a 3rd or 4th shot

[Noob_Guardian 418]

1 minute ago, BXNNXD said:

its pretty easy to do on the ntec - iirc the 3rd and 4th shots have "exponentially" more bloom, if you time it right (or wrong, technically) its possible to shoot from max accuracy and still get the more significant bloom of a 3rd or 4th shot

yeah it should be looked at...

 

[AxeTurboAgresor 268]

I love everything about current ntec. It forces you to learn its mechanics, and it is high skill - high reward weapon. I dont use it tho, I prefer cqc weapons, and FAR instead of NTEC. NTEC is in great spot and it should not be touched by any buffs / nerfs or changes.

If I get it right, you are complaining that you cant handle its mechanics. Just go and practice more.

[vsb 6174]

32 minutes ago, AxeTurboAgresor said:

I love everything about current ntec. It forces you to learn its mechanics, and it is high skill - high reward weapon. I dont use it tho, I prefer cqc weapons, and FAR instead of NTEC. NTEC is in great spot and it should not be touched by any buffs / nerfs or changes.

If I get it right, you are complaining that you cant handle its mechanics. Just go and practice more.

additional rng =/= skill 

[Nitronik 348]

14 hours ago, BXNNXD said:

last i checked csgo has pretty predictable recoil patterns, especially compared to apb

CSGO weapons have predictable recoil patterns, but they also always have some inherent spread, which worsens on the move - so even while standing perfectly still there will be minor deviation to your shots (though it's irrelevant for anything past extreme ranges)

 

3 hours ago, AxeTurboAgresor said:

I love everything about current ntec. It forces you to learn its mechanics, and it is high skill - high reward weapon. I dont use it tho, I prefer cqc weapons, and FAR instead of NTEC. NTEC is in great spot and it should not be touched by any buffs / nerfs or changes.

If I get it right, you are complaining that you cant handle its mechanics. Just go and practice more.

You did not get it right

A major issue with curve mechanics is that the current position along the curve is not communicated well, if at all - it's part of the reason why they had to buff the SWARM to follow the predetermined sway pattern for a lot more shots, because you, a player WITHOUT debug tools, can't quite tell if you've recovered enough to take advantage of predictable recoil (in the case of SWARM) or avoid bloom exploding (in the case of the NTEC)

The raptor tries to avoid this by using the Speaker icon on the HUD, and it's one of the few, if not the only time the mechanic is comunicated properly

[AxeTurboAgresor 268]

@BXNNXD lets not bring an old school shooter mechanics with no rgn. Ntec is the most skill based, and skill rewarding weapons

 

@Nitronik Alright thx for explaining. I am just not experiencing the same issue, so I got a little bit lost in this topic.

[BlatMan 717]

8 hours ago, AxeTurboAgresor said:

I love everything about current ntec. It forces you to learn its mechanics, and it is high skill - high reward weapon. I dont use it tho, I prefer cqc weapons, and FAR instead of NTEC. NTEC is in great spot and it should not be touched by any buffs / nerfs or changes.

If I get it right, you are complaining that you cant handle its mechanics. Just go and practice more.

3 burst, pause, 3 burst, pause, 3 burst, pause.

 

It's not hard to use, it's a stupid mechanic. The accuracy and recoil should be consistent between shots, especially after the bloom and recoil fully recover. It's a kick in the nuts on the tommy gun.

[AxeTurboAgresor 268]

@MrsHappyPenguin its one of the options indeed, but its more complex than that, depending on situation. I like how people tend to oversimplify everything to prove their point. hehe

Tommy is indeed garbage tho

Edited April 17, 2019 by AxeTurboAgresor

[Exiqe 0]

On 4/15/2019 at 7:41 PM, Lign said:

Overall ntec and Atac are well balanced, they just need to get nerfed in some specific things.

Basically, ntec has insane accuracy in tap firing, you can spray three first bullets and be able to hit them all from 60-70m. That’s the reason why it overshoots obeya from 60m even with damage dropoff. It needs a nerfed bloom recovery to make practical fire rate in tapping slower. Oh, and of cource remove benefiting from hunting sight in jump

 

Atac just needs much bigger recoil because currently it shoots like a laser. It’s a shame the weapon was made to compete with current cqc has much much better accuracy and be able to pixel picking from the corner

It seems to me the ideal decision to roll away ntec to the state in patch 1.13 (I mean until when ntec began to change)

[KyoukiDotExe 231]

12 hours ago, AxeTurboAgresor said:

I love everything about current ntec. It forces you to learn its mechanics, and it is high skill - high reward weapon. I dont use it tho, I prefer cqc weapons, and FAR instead of NTEC. NTEC is in great spot and it should not be touched by any buffs / nerfs or changes.

If I get it right, you are complaining that you cant handle its mechanics. Just go and practice more.

Weird to say that to someone who did play starting 2012ish, and kept playing on wards. I just remember times where before this curve mech was introduced the gun felt actually rewarding and consistent. Right now it just does not.

Don't think it's a matter of practice since I do main the gun for a bit right now, but I feel forced to take on other weapons as the other guns do not have these issues like:

- No predictable or indictable weapon reset when the accuracy is back, pretty much nailed it:

- Just overall when you try to hit a target and you do not get a single red hit marker back (confirmed shot on the server) <-- this could be a server/networking issue.

- Feels like it does not matter what time I take in between shots, I just do not get any consistency back.

- Can't kill people on far distances even if you take your time and plan out a attack on the opponent and take everything into consideration like crouching, tap firing, having the corner for cover.

 

I do agree that the previous ntec was although a bit strong, it did compete with hvr and obir's on very long range making it the best gun to use. But it didn't need this system, instead the range should be lowered so that the HVR and Obir long range weapons actually make sense again.

Before the change you could kill anyone within the range parameters:

https://apbdb.com/build/Weapon_AssaultRifle_NTEC-Stock_Slot3_Militant_FC/?mods=FnMod_Weapon_Rifling3,FnMod_Weapon_HuntingSight3,FnMod_Weapon_ThreePointSling3

12 hours ago, BXNNXD said:

additional rng =/= skill 

Pretty much this yeah.

[Gateron 267]

How about they make SHAW,Tommy gun, DMR viable again. shet game. Hate to play with OBIR NTEC OBEYA OCA PMG all day long to fight back in missions because it isn't possible anymore to use the fun weapons since they never got touched and still are shit. No skill game

 

[DedGaem 148]

On 4/14/2019 at 2:55 PM, CookiePuss said:

Well, at least it's not another thread on how OP the N-TEC is. 

 

It's not that the N-Tec is OP, but that tapfire script-kiddies have a lot of cough *no-recoil programs they can use to push it past it's intended design parameters.  This makes the N-Tec seem stupid OP when it's really not.  Any nerf to it would be doing the game a disservice.

[BlatMan 717]

22 minutes ago, Hey! said:

It's not that the N-Tec is OP, but that tapfire script-kiddies have a lot of cough *no-recoil programs they can use to push it past it's intended design parameters.  This makes the N-Tec seem stupid OP when it's really not.  Any nerf to it would be doing the game a disservice.

 

As if the N-tec has meaningful recoil to begin with.

[safdfsgkjhdgsjkhs 140]

all i know is that... before curve mechanics the ntec along with every other marksman gun, point man gun, sniper rifle and machine guns were ALL viable and equally good in their respectable ranges... now a days ntec is really trash and not op at all... obir is trash, shaw isnt competitive.... nfas is the king of all pointman weapons and hard hvr is turned into a draw distance silver sniper style weapon where you only go for tags like a 5 hour played bronze player does.

 

if removing the curve crap will bring the guns back to how they used to be im all for it. the gunplay was the best in 2013-2014... g1 ruined most of the gunplay with all this rng bs.