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JStryker47

PVE servers?

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Would it be possible for there to be PVE servers; in which you'd face off against bots instead of players?  Not only would this cut down on time spent waiting for enemies, but it would also make good practice for less skilled players.

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short answer - no 

 

long answer - any kind of ai meant to imitate player character movement would take a hefty amount of work, and frankly would never be a decent substitute 

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no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no 

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On 12/17/2018 at 4:20 AM, BXNNXD said:

short answer - no 

 

long answer - any kind of ai meant to imitate player character movement would take a hefty amount of work, and frankly would never be a decent substitute 

Pretty much this.

it would take a considerable amount of development resources and the result wouldn't be a good practice, as the ai would be limited in tactics.

 

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How though? normal missions? Nah. It would work if the game was similar to L4D or Payday.

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This game is a mess when it comes to implement new things that require code.
Everything is "too much work." or "the actual engine can't handle it."

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On top of the many processes the server has to handle, lets throw incredibly complex AI too.

 

And that's how you create server fires.

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Well, see... here's the thing:  putting aside the fact that I tend not to do so well in PVP shooter games, I'm trying to invest in the car surfer mod and I'm at the point where I've maxed Justin Teng and gotten to level 10 with Orlenz Moretti - and until I get to level 15 with Orlenz, I won't receive the contact who has that mod for sale.  But unfortunately, Orlenz is in Waterfront and - for some unknown reason, Waterfront is always deserted these days.  If there was a way I could fight against bots, that would solve my problem and give me some much-needed practice for fighting against players.

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17 hours ago, Fortune Runner said:

APB was never designed for PvE.

I'm not sure how  you could do scoring or matchmaking that would fit APB ?

 

Simple.  They could have you go to the options menu and set the kind of opponents you want - gold, silver, bronze, red/blue, or green - and have you face a number of bots at that skill level.  Your partners could potentially be anyone who had the same opponent setting as you.  For regular missions, your enemies would be near the objective area and, after taking them out, you'd be given a timer to show how long you have to do the objective before they get back.  For dispatch missions, there'd be a timer showing how long you have until the enemies reach the objective area.  And if an enemy is doing the objective, then you'd have another timer to show how long you have to stop them from completing it.

 

Scoring wouldn't have to be any different than how it is now.

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IMO a game built on the concept of PvP and high speed combat can be easily turned into a PvE experience with the use of campaigns.

 

Maybe have a hideout defence mission as a criminal, where one of the criminal contracts hires you to defend his warehouse from being looted... or something...

 

This mission would be slow paced (in comparison to the rest of the game) and require defensive gameplay for the criminals. Two teams would still exist, but they would be assymetrical (more crims on crim side, less enfos on enfo side). While crims would defend the big pile of loot, the building, or whatever objective,  enforcers would join the game and spawn as "special units" or as themselves to aid the smaller, weaker groups of AI police. 

 

For this sort of static, defensive mission, with more or less simple enemies that come in waves I can assure you don't need a lot of power. The AI would work in "groups", instead of having one for each individual enemy that spawns. Maybe on top of the enforcer players and the police cannon fodder there could also be special enemies carrying heavier armor or using special weapons. 

 

And I think that's all. Basically it's like turning the game into... Idk, payday. Or L4D2 but the zombies carry strap and are actually cops. 

 

 

Another cute idea would be to have a survival mode, where you and a team of 4-6-8 players total would have to survive somewhere. Like a zombies mode. Combat arms had a few modes like this and it was a lot of fun. 

 

 

Just as an idea. 

 

But I honestly don't think a missions district could work with PvE. Either the AI would be extremely stupid or frustratingly smart and accurate. Like the CoD AI, where the low levels are hilariously dumb but the high end feels like playing against aimbot. 

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2 hours ago, JStryker47 said:

 

Simple.  They could have you go to the options menu and set the kind of opponents you want - gold, silver, bronze, red/blue, or green - and have you face a number of bots at that skill level.  Your partners could potentially be anyone who had the same opponent setting as you.  For regular missions, your enemies would be near the objective area and, after taking them out, you'd be given a timer to show how long you have to do the objective before they get back.  For dispatch missions, there'd be a timer showing how long you have until the enemies reach the objective area.  And if an enemy is doing the objective, then you'd have another timer to show how long you have to stop them from completing it.

 

Scoring wouldn't have to be any different than how it is now.

APB is not setup for PvE

not the mission , the map ,  nothing

that wont work the way you think.

to program an AI for APB you would essentially have to build a new game to do so

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5 hours ago, JStryker47 said:

Simple. They could have you go to the options menu and set the kind of opponents you want - gold, silver, bronze, red/blue, or green

making a bot that could accurately replicate even a low gold player is anything but simple lol

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14 minutes ago, BXNNXD said:

making a bot that could accurately replicate even a low gold player is anything but simple lol

Hey banned is there any game with an AI even close to what we would need just to shoot?

Then there's driving through traffic and avoiding it or backing up etc

I don't know of any game AI that can do what an APB map requires

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Well, there's got to be SOME way for me to get some goddamn standing points with Orlenz, because I'm getting real sick and tired of nobody showing up in Waterfront!

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20 minutes ago, Fortune Runner said:

Hey banned is there any game with an AI even close to what we would need just to shoot?

Then there's driving through traffic and avoiding it or backing up etc

I don't know of any game AI that can do what an APB map requires

most open world games have serviceable AI the problem is that raising the "skill level" usually just ends up making their aim more and more artificially good, leading to a situation where your AI "players" would play like silvers or bronzes but with perfect aim - it doesnt lead to particularly good gameplay since any face to face firefight is essentially an automatic loss

 

 

5 minutes ago, JStryker47 said:

Well, there's got to be SOME way for me to get some goddamn standing points with Orlenz, because I'm getting real sick and tired of nobody showing up in Waterfront!

its an unfortunate downside of having low population, coding pve into apb would take time away from projects that will likely boost the population and fix the problem

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3 hours ago, JStryker47 said:

Well, there's got to be SOME way for me to get some goddamn standing points with Orlenz, because I'm getting real sick and tired of nobody showing up in Waterfront!

dethreat?  What threat level are you? 

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8 hours ago, _chain said:

dethreat?  What threat level are you? 

 

I'm afraid you misunderstand the problem.  The contact I'm working on is only in Waterfront, but nobody ever shows up to the Waterfront servers anymore - bronze, silver, or gold. 

 

Also, I lose a lot so I don't need to de-threat.

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23 minutes ago, JStryker47 said:

Also, I lose a lot so I don't need to de-threat.

sheesh.

23 minutes ago, JStryker47 said:

I'm afraid you misunderstand the problem.  The contact I'm working on is only in Waterfront, but nobody ever shows up to the Waterfront servers anymore - bronze, silver, or gold. 

What servers are you on? I've been on citadel this morning and there was at least one 3/4 full server. AT LEAST.

Edited by _chain

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On 12/19/2018 at 3:53 PM, TheKeanuReeves said:

This game is a mess when it comes to implement new things that require code.
Everything is "too much work." or "the actual engine can't handle it."

i mean, lately this game has been like:

 

*adds something into the game*

*completely unrelated car radar breaks*

 

so yeah, italian code: its all speghetti

 

On 12/20/2018 at 3:13 AM, Caesruul said:

On top of the many processes the server has to handle, lets throw incredibly complex AI too.

 

And that's how you create server fires.

i mean, its not like there arent lots of PVE coop online server sided games out there...

 

but yeah, if you're talking specifically about APB's servers, those poor hamsters are at their full capacity

 

On 12/20/2018 at 9:41 PM, JStryker47 said:

Well, see... here's the thing:  putting aside the fact that I tend not to do so well in PVP shooter games, I'm trying to invest in the car surfer mod and I'm at the point where I've maxed Justin Teng and gotten to level 10 with Orlenz Moretti - and until I get to level 15 with Orlenz, I won't receive the contact who has that mod for sale.  But unfortunately, Orlenz is in Waterfront and - for some unknown reason, Waterfront is always deserted these days.  If there was a way I could fight against bots, that would solve my problem and give me some much-needed practice for fighting against players.

log in every day - some days its a financial day, some days is a waterfront day (at least in jericho). other than that... use joker tickets?

 

On 12/21/2018 at 3:31 AM, Fortune Runner said:

APB was never designed for PvE.

I'm not sure how  you could do scoring or matchmaking that would fit APB ?

 

mmmm... make PVE specific missions

 

 

-> make the objective always spawn somewhat far away from the current position of the player

-> 1 objective mission

-> if the player attacks, the objective place gets filled with bots. the bots spawns in pre-determined positions, with pretty basic moves programming. once a player shows up, bots shoot at them if they can see them, but doesnt hunt them down. if you're feeling fancy, you can add some programming to let the bots get to any position of the area following a path, so you can have diferent kind of bots (bots with shotguns/SMGs) hunting down the player based on the "last seen position", and other with ntecs/semi autos doing static defense.

-> if the player defends, leave the player in a zone. dont let the player leave that zone. make bots squads spawn in predetermined positions,  and follow predetermined paths to the area the player needs to defend. if you're feeling fancy add some snipers that are determined to stay in a couple of positions shooting from afar.

 

obiously that would take a lot of time to program, but im just theorizing how a PVE mode could go

 

i dont need to say that a system like this would suffer from the banned's problem: dumb bots shooting like cheaters, moving like bronze players. or dumb bots shooting and moving like bronze players, comming in huge waves.

 

On 12/21/2018 at 9:17 PM, JStryker47 said:

 

Simple.  They could have you go to the options menu and set the kind of opponents you want - gold, silver, bronze, red/blue, or green - and have you face a number of bots at that skill level.  Your partners could potentially be anyone who had the same opponent setting as you.  For regular missions, your enemies would be near the objective area and, after taking them out, you'd be given a timer to show how long you have to do the objective before they get back.  For dispatch missions, there'd be a timer showing how long you have until the enemies reach the objective area.  And if an enemy is doing the objective, then you'd have another timer to show how long you have to stop them from completing it.

 

Scoring wouldn't have to be any different than how it is now.

 

...you do know that blue/red is NOT a threat level, right?

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9 minutes ago, TheOppositePolarBear said:

mmmm... make PVE specific missions

for the last time

not possible with how APB is made

too many parameters for an AI that cant be done with APB

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2 hours ago, Fortune Runner said:

for the last time 

not possible with how APB is made 

too many parameters for an AI that cant be done with APB 

 

i would believe you if you say its imposible to make an IA that plays apb as you know it right now

 

but thats where the "PVE specific missions" comes to play

 

are you telling me its not posible to just put a couple of bots that cant move more than 5 mts from their designated area and shoot when they see the player to guard an area?

 

are you telling me its not posible to assign a waypoint system ala CS 1.6 in a determined area for a bot to hunt down a player when the player is inside that area?

 

im not saying its posible to make a bot that plays APB, im saying its posible to make a bot if we dumb down the missions.

 

this is the idea:

 

i'll pick up this random screenshot i found in the internet:

 

Baylan_Shipping_21.jpg

 

-> the player is forced to come from the side that missle is going to.

-> to win the player needs to get to the train

-> all the characters you see in the screenshot are IAs with no movement programmed, that will only shoot the player on sight

 

^is THAT imposible to make?

 

dont misunderstand me, im not saying they should make it, im not saying "LO PLEASE RUN TO MAKE THIS!", im saying its posible to make a PVE mode, NOT with the normal missions we players play, but with customized missions just like GTA, sleeping dogs and saint row has shown us its completely posible to do.

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you were already told how the map for APB would never work for this sigh

no AI in this say and age is suitable for APB

if you want PvE so badly go study computer programming and make a proper AI or it just cant happen.

the end

 

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On 12/22/2018 at 6:31 AM, JStryker47 said:

Well, there's got to be SOME way for me to get some goddamn standing points with Orlenz, because I'm getting real sick and tired of nobody showing up in Waterfront!

 

On 12/17/2018 at 2:36 AM, JStryker47 said:

Would it be possible for there to be PVE servers; in which you'd face off against bots instead of players?  Not only would this cut down on time spent waiting for enemies, but it would also make good practice for less skilled players.

 

Having AI for practice is one thing but having a good AI that can replicate different play styles and tactics takes a lot of coding and ages to develop.

Now having an AI to compensate for low population numbers would have even worse results as the maps, mission objectives and overall game was never designed for PvE compatibility in mind.
Again time developing an AI that can understand interactive objects, objective requirements would take longer than just finishing all engine upgrades and getting population numbers up with good PR and marketing.

 

I suspect the single hardest issue for APB AI would be the concepts of vehicles, driving and how the game mechanics change in game then. How do you teach a bot that you can't shoot a gun when you're behind the wheel of a car, or that a car cannot just run sideways! How will the bot even know when it's in a car?

 

GTA has always been PvE with NPC that are build into the very foundation of the games for years over multiple games, APB has only had very limited NPC real world interactions.

Thinking about it, The NPC scripts for pedestrians and vehicle drivers surely are different as NPC taken out of cars just simply despawn.

 

Another issue would be the range of guns and gun mods and how they all behave differently Unless the bots all uses a select number of stock weapons, you're going to get some rather comical results.

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On 12/17/2018 at 6:36 AM, JStryker47 said:

Would it be possible for there to be PVE servers; in which you'd face off against bots instead of players?  Not only would this cut down on time spent waiting for enemies, but it would also make good practice for less skilled players.

It would be nice to see AI-dummies standing at varying distances in a shooting-range, just like the one Planetside 2 has.

 

I believe this one is doable unlike AI that actually plays missions. Simply spawn Civilians, have them make their phone-calls and other animations while buffing their health to 1000. Shouldn't be hard to do

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