Fully reverting IR changes.. and why we tried them in the first place

[MattScott 15242]

Hi all,

 

NOTE: This has been edited since the original post.

 

Just like the title says, I've made the decision to fully revert the IR changes with the Halloween patch.

 

For the record, I still feel like the IR3 changes were better -- in most cases.

 

I still feel like the original IR implementation ends up with little to no downside. The mod uses set values and not percentages, so players can use that mod to force weapons out of their intended category by extending their range. Changing the mod to be percentage based allowed us to scale the upside/downsides properly.

 

However, "most cases" isn't good enough. Since the changes went live, the design team and I have been trying to solve IR3 on pre-modded Legendaries that players paid for. We toyed with a bunch of scenarios, but all of them create more complexity / variations of the same mod and muddy up understanding how the game works.

Hindsight is 20/20. We should have immediately reverted this months ago when players raised the various issues, and then gone back to the drawing board. Instead, each week it appeared like we had a new solution, so I let the changes stand while we explored each new implementation.

 

My apologies to all the players who were affected. We'll do better in the future.

 

Thanks,
Matt

[Kewlin 692]

Great post Matt, I think it sounds like our opinions line up decently well on this one.

 

I like that you're trying to fix IR, 'cause it is honestly broken without a downside, and the changes grew on me a little, but it just felt weird in some different ways.

 

Looking forward, are you going to be playing with similar downsides for IR, entirely different downsides, or are you not going to be playing with giving it downsides?

[TackoGirl 130]

 

Now I love you again

[hack 96]

If you are reverting the IR 3 changes, Do not increase the base range of the OBIR and Obeya by 5 meters in the upcoming weapon balance.

Edited October 19, 2018 by hack

[Parthian 344]

Just now, hack said:

If you are reverting the IR 3 changes, Do not increase the base range of the OBIR and Obeya in the upcoming weapon balance.

this

[Ketog 1032]

Y E S

[KERNIE 87]

12 minutes ago, MattScott said:

For the record, I still feel like the IR3 changes were better -- in most cases.

opinions like this tend to be the case with people who don't play the game

[Kewlin 692]

1 minute ago, KERNIE said:

opinions like this tend to be the case with people who don't play the game

Bro, no reason to be a banana about it, lol. They're trying their best.

[KERNIE 87]

2 minutes ago, Kewlin said:

Bro, no reason to be a banana about it, lol. They're trying their best.

trying their best by ignoring insightful advice from people who have actual unbiased experience in what the game needs and listening to silvers who main osmaw is about as unhealthy for a game as it gets

[Acornie 490]

Hmm. Well, you did have a dilemma on your hands, this mod on shotguns is tricky and guess what RP decided to to? Slap it on all the preset CSGs and reskins! 

Is not even the percentage method staying? It's going back to basic 3,5,7m?

[mojical 160]

25 minutes ago, MattScott said:

I still feel like the original IR3 implementation ends up with little to no downside. The mod uses set values and not percentages, so players can use that mod to force weapons out of their intended category by extending their range. Changing the mod to be percentage based allowed us to scale the upside/downsides properly.

 

However, "most cases" isn't good enough. Since the changes went live, the design team and I have been trying to solve IR3 on slotted Legendaries. We toyed with a bunch of scenarios, but all of them create more complexity / variations of the same mod and muddy up understanding how the game works.

 

This'll make the Fang absurdly broken once more. I would certainly look into doing something with it (or perhaps the RFP line as a whole) because it may feed those who claim this game is P2W. I'd suggest lowering its Improved Rifling to level 1 or 2. 

Edited October 19, 2018 by Lyfeld
Removed incorrect reference to legendaries (meant Armas gun)

[CookiePuss 5382]

25 minutes ago, MattScott said:

IR3 on slotted Legendaries

literally what?

[Nitronik 348]

To tell you the truth I'm not sure the revert is a good idea. Maybe less of a RoF impact would've been better, but this change was great in that weapons now had both the range and TTK of their new categories...

 

[Lato 188]

Boring.

[bicycle 67]

Im happy for my csg pr1

[Semblance 2]

maybe first just try to reduce/change the percentage of the reduction in fire rate on ir before reverting it completely

[swft 356]

How about you redo the preset gun mods or just remove them all and only sell 3 slotted variants for the same price?

[Nitronik 348]

Just now, swft said:

How about you redo the preset gun mods or just remove them all and only sell 3 slotted variants for the same price?

This honestly. Changing stuff like the CSG PR1 to reflex would be better than reverting IR to being a flat upgrade

[GhosT 1301]

That's a nice change.

 

Though I still hope you plan on adding some other downside to it, it needs one.

[AsgerLund 1271]

Imagine the Steam chart bump from all the players who left specifically because of the IR3 changes!!!!

[M4Ni4C 18]

I appreciate that LO is listening to the community, but if this happens on every time we wont have any progress. So please be confident LO and stay on the changes you’ve made. There are people who complain on anything.

 

Improved Rifling has no significant downside again soon, unless you shout your gun on maximum fire rate your weapon. So what downside would prevent to make IR a straight upgrade to any open slotted primary weapon? More recoil?

 

I actually got used to the IR changes. It might the choice of mods strategic, you get range for slower fire rate. Yeah you are probably worse on CQC as before, but that can be mitigated by choosing a secondary weapon suited for CQC.

[finaljustice 8]

I agree that the "old" IR didnt have enough of a downside. Please consider introducing a similar downside as the current Cooling Jacket.

 

Also, the rate of fire downside is interesting and some people seem to like it. I suggest looking into changing Heavy Barrel to ROF instead of damage. I doubt anyone would really care that HB is changed.

[Kewlin 692]

BTW, did you consider just halving the downside until you can work out a better one?

[Parthian 344]

36 minutes ago, swft said:

How about you redo the preset gun mods or just remove them all and only sell 3 slotted variants for the same price?

my TAS20 Stock would appreciate this

[Kewlin 692]

39 minutes ago, swft said:

How about you redo the preset gun mods or just remove them all and only sell 3 slotted variants for the same price?

Please, give us 3-slots for everything beside the LCR, and make the LCR have 2-open slots + IR3 or CJ2. (Or just rebalance the LCR so it works with CJ fine, given that IR barely has any upside on the gun.)