New Mid-September Update Blog

[Rikard86 32]

16 minutes ago, foolish ninja said:

TBH, the shotgun changes are okay, but nerfing strife even more makes zero sense. A gun with a TTK of 1,20secs at close range is bad!
Also IR in live version is a lot better and less complicated than the test version. Dont make the game more complicated for newcomers.

Aren't the "from" values from the current Test A setup? Because I'm pretty sure the Strife does not deal 945 damage on Live Edited September 17, 2018 by Rikard86

[foolish ninja 59]

28 minutes ago, Rikard86 said:

Aren't the "from" values from the current Test A setup? Because I'm pretty sure the Strife does not deal 945 damage on Live

ye thats true, somehow the values are not correct, but it shows some kind of a nerf to it and it rather needs a buff than a nerf.

[SpeedyCat 106]

Some true words about IR3 related on OBIR:
 

On 9/16/2018 at 7:33 AM, Tenginima said:

Basically the road with all the changes will change guns for the worst in a lot of areas. For instance the change to IR3 was a good change for Assault Rifles, as I made them more specialized in long range encounters. but worse in close range, which is how mods should work, you trade one thing for another. The issue is the fact that the IR3 nerf was simply to hard on some guns, mostly the OBIR. The OBIR is fascinating cause it is better then the Obeya Rifle in the sense that it has a higher skill cap, but more potent usage, it's more consistent even at max burst rate. However, the IR3 change has a very bad consequence for the OBIR. Basically the Obeya Rifle, OSCAR etc those rifles didn't go to change with the nerf, as for instance with the Obeya rifle you would not get a good use out of IR3 if you max fireated it, as it would bloom to much, so while technically you can't shot as fast, the gun itself in how it plays is barely affected, as you simply shoot at a more consistent firerate. The same is for the OSCAR, but for the OBIR, the story is a lot more different. 

You see, with the OBIR you kinda had to rely on IR3 to really maximize it's efficiency, as while it is competitive without it, IR3 really pushed it into more or less what it should've been. the Problem is though that the current application of IR3 on an OBIR, will severely limit it's ability to perform, as the much slower fire-rate is not even near as much of a fair trade-of for the extra 7.5m. As putting IR3 on the gun now just gimps it so hard.

The OBIR has had an interesting history since it was actually nerfed way back when, when they reduced the fire-rate of the gun, now with the IR3 change, it is basically pissing on the corpse of IR3 OBIRS.

Now the OBIR is difficult in this whole sea of changes as it needs the extra range, but also how do you balance that with IR3? Well you see I think that LO should do Mod specific maluses and bonuses, like Cooling Jacket has for Shotguns. What I am suggesting is that just like CJ, IR should have specific weapon role downgrades and upgrades. For instance, on Assault rifles IR should make them fire slower, as they become more like dedicated long range Assault Rifles rather then Assault Rifles. While on Rifles it should only add a maximum Bloom increase, as in with the Obeya Rifle, there was a reason to use IR3 over CJ3 and wise-versa. Because CJ3 was viable, as it made the Obeya a monster while gimping its range a little, and while IR3 did the opposite. And just like Heavy Barrel is also viable on Obeya Rifles as it can be used to more or less make them into more lower damage laser cannons.

On the OBIR however it's a bit more difficult. The only viable red mod on the OBIR is literally IR 1,2 and 3. As CJ won't affect the interval between bursts, only speed up the bullets in the burst itself, and HB will simply gimp it as the OBIR already have practically perfect accuracy. So that leaves us with IR3, and sadly, G1 did a lot of game balancing around mods, it's very apparent in some guns, like 3PS3 for HVR's etc. 

The issue to why this gun is so hard to balance is because of one thing, and that is the separate discussion of Mods in APB being side grades rather then arguable upgrades. Both devs and players alike agree that mods should be side-grades rather then upgrades, but the reality of almost everything is that some things WILL benefit more from certain things compared to others. Such as HS3 for snipers etc. But sadly it is an impossible task to make all mods side-grades rather then upgrades, without completely destroying certain guns and mods,

So should some mods be arguable upgrades? Yes, and is that ok? Yes. Because you see, as long as they are Better at One specific thing but worst at another, it is ok. Ofc take this with a grain of salt, as certain upgrades are simply to big to ignore. So the issue is more about how big is that advantage rather then if it is an advantage. Cause again, HS3 will ALWAYS be better on Obeya Rifles and OBIRS rather then on OCA's and Shotguns. 

So what am I suggesting with the OBIR? Remove the 18% firerate for IR3 on the OBIR, and make Cooling Jacket actually have an effect on burst Rifles. HOWEVER, many people don't know this, but IR3 WILL make a large difference on the last shot on the OBIR, thus making it worse for tight corner fighting. Which is enough of an sidegrade. CJ3 already have a side-grade, and that is that if they implement it so that it affects burst interval, then the gun will be even harder to use. Cause you see currently, it's very hard to fully track someone while shooting them with and OBIR at maximum fire-rate. CJ3 would just add to this, so while it technically would not make it worse, simply fire faster, it would increase the skill gap of the gun, because if you want to make efficient usage of that fire-rate, you must be a very good player. Which in itself is a significant side-grade.

So LO, don't change the effective range on the Assault rifles, and don't change the range of Rifles, as they simply are fine where they are range wise. The issue is more about mods not being specific in side-grades for specific weapon Roles

The source:
 
Edited September 17, 2018 by SpeedyCat

[Rikard86 32]

47 minutes ago, foolish ninja said:

1 hour ago, Rikard86 said:

Aren't the "from" values from the current Test A setup? Because I'm pretty sure the Strife does not deal 945 damage on Live

ye thats true, somehow the values are not correct, but it shows some kind of a nerf to it and it rather needs a buff than a nerf.

The Strife on Live does not oneshot Fragile users, the one on Test A does. I'm pretty sure that being able to eat anything that has taken even minimal damage in a single shot counts as a buff.

Which is good, I want to like the Strife so much.

[Darkzero3802 613]

Hey @MattScott did you guys fix the objective dash bug?

[MooTownSnacker 4]

On 9/16/2018 at 3:50 AM, AxeTurboAgresor said:

"Improved Rifling
Adjusted upside from 3,5,9m extension to 5% +1m, 12% +2m, 15% +3m.
Changed downside to reducing fire rate by 6, 12, 18%."

 

Yeah, I'm not too happy about what IR3 did to the Obir.  Maybe 5/10/15% would be better penalties to the fire rate.  Or unique effects per weapon, as others have mentioned.

[CookiePuss 5382]

7 hours ago, MooTownSnacker said:

On 9/16/2018 at 3:50 AM, AxeTurboAgresor said:

"Improved Rifling
Adjusted upside from 3,5,9m extension to 5% +1m, 12% +2m, 15% +3m.
Changed downside to reducing fire rate by 6, 12, 18%."

 

Yeah, I'm not too happy about what IR3 did to the Obir.  Maybe 5/10/15% would be better penalties to the fire rate.  Or unique effects per weapon, as others have mentioned.

Or just take the +5m range buff you are getting in place of the +7m range IR used to give?
I doubt you can even tell the difference between 65m and 67m.

[vsb 6174]

11 minutes ago, CookiePuss said:

Or just take the +5m range buff you are getting in place of the +7m range IR used to give?
I doubt you can even tell the difference between 65m and 67m.

not to mention cj3 will now also work correctly on the obir, so its basically 2 red mods in one 

[AxeTurboAgresor 268]

They could just play around with some weapon accuracy stats such as bloom, bloom recovery, max bloom or recoil, but no, they decided to give it rate of fire penalty that makes most of weapons useless.
this way they wanted to nerf certain weapons in close range, but this weapons were bad already in cqc. Its just other ppl dunno use cqc weapons properly and happened to loose againts them. OCA has even lowered TTK to be even more effective againts ntec. Whoever got this dumb idea must be silver from core of his bones.

Edited September 18, 2018 by AxeTurboAgresor

[CookiePuss 5382]

2 minutes ago, BXNNXD said:

15 minutes ago, CookiePuss said:

Or just take the +5m range buff you are getting in place of the +7m range IR used to give?
I doubt you can even tell the difference between 65m and 67m.

not to mention cj3 will now also work correctly on the obir, so its basically 2 red mods in one 

yyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyep

[Kevkof 806]

4 hours ago, BXNNXD said:

4 hours ago, CookiePuss said:

Or just take the +5m range buff you are getting in place of the +7m range IR used to give?
I doubt you can even tell the difference between 65m and 67m.

not to mention cj3 will now also work correctly on the obir, so its basically 2 red mods in one 

Did we ever get confirmation that this was staying. As far as I remember it was just a test

[Revoluzzer 274]

I appreciate these updates, but I don't see 3.5 happening this year.

[vsb 6174]

8 hours ago, Kevkof said:

Did we ever get confirmation that this was staying. As far as I remember it was just a test

as far as i remember cj3 functioned on test district a and thats where the next patch is taking the stats from, so i assume it will go live

[Nite 261]

2 hours ago, Revoluzzer said:

I appreciate these updates, but I don't see 3.5 happening this year.

I had personally guessed a December appearance (where appearance means "on the OTW") at best for the Upgrade, signs seem to point to that being the case so far.

[Kevkof 806]

36 minutes ago, BXNNXD said:

8 hours ago, Kevkof said:

Did we ever get confirmation that this was staying. As far as I remember it was just a test

as far as i remember cj3 functioned on test district a and thats where the next patch is taking the stats from, so i assume it will go live

My memory seems to tell me it was on the otw test districts, but didn't get moved to the live test districts when testing moved there. Could use some verification on that if someone is bored enough

[ScottDaniels 30]

On 9/16/2018 at 12:13 AM, Poperon said:

Now i wonder whos gonna be dumb enough to sell legendaries on Marketplace

THe people wanting to advertise their real money sales obviously.

[MattScott 15242]

Hi all,

I have updated the changed Weapon and Improved Rifling changes in the latest blog to help with confusion. 
The stats are now a direct comparison between 1.19.7 and 1.19.6.
https://apbreloaded.gamersfirst.com/2018/09/mid-september-update.html

Thanks,
Matt
 

[BrandonBranderson 672]

Haven't had a chance to try them myself yet but based on what I've been reading, the changes sound pretty good. 
 

[MooTownSnacker 4]

On 9/17/2018 at 10:47 PM, CookiePuss said:

Or just take the +5m range buff you are getting in place of the +7m range IR used to give?
I doubt you can even tell the difference between 65m and 67m.

Tell that to my Vladivostok
But 3 slot with CJ3 does sound promising.

[WorldDominator 61]

I just read the blog and just wanted to note something 7.5m as a maximum range for the csg is nearly the same max range for the jg ( except that jg has faster firerate  and significantly more damage than the csg) 
so, if i may ask how is the csg supposed to be "balanced" when there is a definitely better shotgun out there  that out classes the csg in everything 
and yes i tried both shotguns in the prototype districts and all i can say that you definitely need to buff at least the range of the csg at least abit and maybe increase the firerate so it can hold its place as another good rival for the jg and keeping the variation of different playstyles that suit every unique weapon. that was the idea behind the weapon changes in the first place if I'm not wrong 
if something like that change didn't pass by the thoughts of the devs who are working on the weapon balance i just might say with all respect you have tried to do something different and we appreciate you giving it a shot but we gonna need you to revert all the changess back all the way back to the last weapon balance that gamersfirst previously had done, the weapons were more satisfying back then i my opinion.
 (forgot to mention something about the other versions of the csg, I'm not sure if you ever thought about the csg pr1 while nerfing the gun's overall firerate alongside the ir3 firerate nerf but i tested it and let me tell you something it had a maximum of aslo 7.5meters to be able to 2 shot someone likewise the jg and the other csg versions that does not have the ir3 included and it felt like the strife shotgun has more firerate to damage and range ratio more than that version of the csg, the gun literally doesn't function as the shiotgun it was before). Having all that in mind and tested out i really feel rather disappointed by the the over all weapon balance updates ever since it first started showing up and its indeed as you described it @mattscott this whole balance thing was incredibly poorly handled as you described it by either killing some of the weapons entirely out of the game or buffing others to the point where it can out ttk other roles in out side their environment (shreddar).

[Kewlin 692]

2 hours ago, WorldDominator said:

I just read the blog and just wanted to note something 7.5m as a maximum range for the csg is nearly the same max range for the jg ( except that jg has faster firerate  and significantly more damage than the csg) 
so, if i may ask how is the csg supposed to be "balanced" when there is a definitely better shotgun out there  that out classes the csg in everything 
and yes i tried both shotguns in the prototype districts and all i can say that you definitely need to buff at least the range of the csg at least abit and maybe increase the firerate so it can hold its place as another good rival for the jg and keeping the variation of different playstyles that suit every unique weapon. that was the idea behind the weapon changes in the first place if I'm not wrong 
if something like that change didn't pass by the thoughts of the devs who are working on the weapon balance i just might say with all respect you have tried to do something different and we appreciate you giving it a shot but we gonna need you to revert all the changess back all the way back to the last weapon balance that gamersfirst previously had done, the weapons were more satisfying back then i my opinion.

Like you just said, and I must have said it half a dozen times by now, in testing I did before the changes the CSG used to be able to 5-shot at 20m pretty reliably, (against a still target,) and now it can only do 221.5 damage per shot at 20m if you could land every pellet, which you cannot, so the gun is effectively useless at a range it used to compete in.

The changes to the CSG are objectively a nerf, they need to be fixed, the gun needs its old range or its just a worse JG. When they try to buff a gun and I just want the old one back, there's a serious issue.

(Or, just overall, how is it supposed to be perceived as a buff to take a gun that's two shot, make it still two shot, and then increase its TTK? Much less when you decrease its range.)

[SpeedyCat 106]

16 hours ago, MooTownSnacker said:

Tell that to my Vladivostok
But 3 slot with CJ3 does sound promising.

 

Yep, thats my problem i actually have on 4 of my accounts...

[StrelitziaDeWitt 56]

Definitely doing way better on the communication  side of things. ^_^ 
But let's pump it up to the next level with video blogs, we know you got the tools Scott!
I heard begging helps so I arranged a Lilo and Stitch to beg for me.  

[CookiePuss 5382]

2 hours ago, AlexandraTromp said:

Definitely doing way better on the communication  side of things. ^_^ 
But let's pump it up to the next level with video blogs, we know you got the tools Scott!


 

Something like this WOULD be pretty sweet...

[Spooki3 5]

As the only console player that reads the forums I must say. Please. Please dont buff the shotguns.

Everything else is fine but not the shotguns. Theres already a heavy shotgun meta atm due to it being so easy and forgiving while playing with 5 fps.

Rather than slapping the same balance patch on consoles as on pc. Let the weapon balance be slightly different because of how differently they play altogether. Come and try it out for yourself @MattScott before doing anything too hasty.