Fix shotguns on OTW pls

[DiSkage 25]

Shotguns on OTW op af now, with csg u can kill on 30m with 4 shots and on 18-19m with 2 shots. With jg u need 2 shots for 13m. On live server csg killing with 2 shots only on 11m and jg on 9m
Stream from OTW
 

[tennogrineer 71]

said stuff about overall shotguns in the other thread (copying most over):

overall shotguns are too forgiving (especially with the csg and autoshotguns). the new pellet system shouldnt be applied to everything

• auto shotguns (nfas, orge, etc.)  - doesnt need to be changed (no new pellet system - it's an auto shotgun). orge is stupidly strong at range now.
• strife - needs to be way less forgiving (less pellets hit should do less damage, right now you can barely hit someone at it does a lot more than you think it would). however, the fire rate makes using the gun pointless now with the other shotgun changes.
• csg - doesnt need to be changed at all (there was nothing wrong with the csg). if the change is kept, the damage needs to be lowered, like 100 less and then it would make sense that csg has to 3 shot close maintaining excellency at a further range
• jg - same as csg*. it was in a good spot but benefits with the new system to keep it a true solid choice over the csg at very close ranges. will guarantee more 2 shots close but fails hard at range...which makes the csg the obvious winner.
• shredder - okay. feels good
• showstopper (secondary) - 3 shot kill, maybe like a 0.8- 1s ttk? feels real good for the most part, on the fence to make it a 4 shot instead.

majority of shotgun issues are because of the server anyway.
 

most of this seems consistent to what @Frosi was testing/seeing on stream (alongside other things with @Tobii and @LUST) worth checking out his VOD too. good on them

he posted about it as well:

7 minutes ago, Frosi said:

CSG: Too good, the consistency of two shotting feels good but 10-15 meter 2 shots are a bit too strong.
JG: Noticeably worse than the CSG, while you have an easier time two shotting compared to the Live JG it really doesn't stand a chance against a CSG right now.
Ogre: Still broken, this shotgun shouldn't be included in the shotgun changes as it has been made even better even tho it was already fairly broken to begin with.
Strife: I can't really say much about the Strife, the CSG, JG and Ogre all seemed better although some people say that its poking damage is incredibly good thanks to the shotgun changes.

  Edited August 1, 2018 by tennogrineer

[Shini 251]

1 hour ago, tennogrineer said:

most of this seems consistent to what @Frosi was testing/seeing on stream (alongside other things with @Tobii and @LUST) worth checking out his VOD too. good on them

Some highlights

https://clips.twitch.tv/OutstandingIcyPlumageBloodTrail
https://clips.twitch.tv/RelievedHeadstrongOysterThunBeast
https://clips.twitch.tv/ImpartialFriendlySkirretRitzMitz

 

[NotZombieBiscuit 3146]

Remember to buff csg hard damage if you want to go back to 2012 meta.

[swft 356]

Shotguns were fine before, the problem was always the hitreg itself.

[Deku 18]

49 minutes ago, Shini said:

Some highlights

https://clips.twitch.tv/OutstandingIcyPlumageBloodTrail
https://clips.twitch.tv/RelievedHeadstrongOysterThunBeast
https://clips.twitch.tv/ImpartialFriendlySkirretRitzMitz

 

looks like fun

[Beastie 177]

Hi, just want to mention that I've posted a comment related to this topic on the upcoming weapon balance thread (where it's also being discussed).In a nutshell, we're aware of this and it was expected that the shotguns would be outperforming at range in the first pass on OTW. With the first pass, we were focusing on getting the mechanics in and working within their intended ranges. The second pass will start to focus on reducing the effectiveness they've gained in areas where we don't want them to.

[dett2 64]

I agree.
shotguns don't need change.
OTW shotguns are OP.

[NotZombieBiscuit 3146]

Even if shotguns were fine and dandy within their power range on the OTW I still don't agree with the pellet mechanic. It rewards bad aim far too much as well as pretty much counteracting the use of cover.

[Triksterism 137]

3 minutes ago, NotZombieBiscuit said:

Even if shotguns were fine and dandy within their power range on the OTW I still don't agree with the pellet mechanic. It rewards bad aim far too much as well as pretty much counteracting the use of cover.

Rewards bad aim you say...

[NotZombieBiscuit 3146]

3 minutes ago, Triksterism said:

Rewards bad aim you say...
 

Means you should be able to two shot every time with your aim :^)

[Lign 361]

Shotguns are pretty strong when you know how to use it, but the problem was in inconsistent hitreg

[Triksterism 137]

Just now, NotZombieBiscuit said:

4 minutes ago, Triksterism said:

Rewards bad aim you say...
 

Means you should be able to two shot every time with your aim :^)

Truly the Gods have smiled upon me this day.

In all seriousness, I sincerely hope this change isn't overtuned or it's going to be a bad time. Sure it'll be fun for people like me who can't aim to save their lives, but after a day of this it'll be aids 5000.

I suck at the game but I KNOW I suck and don't want some weird patch that makes things easier when they don't need to be. What needs to happen is server-side improvements to reduce (if not eliminate) hit-reg issues.

[Shini 251]

3 hours ago, DiSkage said:

Shotguns on OTW op af now, with csg u can kill on 30m with 4 shots and on 18-19m with 2 shots. With jg u need 2 shots for 13m. On live server csg killing with 2 shots only on 11m and jg on 9m
Stream from OTW
 

Dev response -

[VanilleKeks 737]

if it rewards bad aim too much, they could just tighten the spread, i think its a good change to make shotguns consistent, tweaking the stats a little should fix the remaining issues

[GavidaR 15]

Shotguns were fine, hitreg was fine :v
 

[tennogrineer 71]

19 minutes ago, Lign said:

Shotguns are pretty strong when you know how to use it, but the problem was in inconsistent hitreg

yeah mostly the server. many remember the days when servers were so smooth that using a shotgun was just the best thing in the world.
now these changes kind of just make them more consistent even if the servers are running terribly (wont solve the hitreg issue completely, but at least something might count more often)

[AxeTurboAgresor 268]

For those who claim that shotgun is buffed for those with bad aim: 

This is why shotguns needed a little fix. Sometimes it deals low dmg even tho you hit exactly on the target. Now they will tweak values a little bit to hit this sweet spot where shotguns are neither OP nor broken.

[Kempington 295]

1 hour ago, Triksterism said:

Rewards bad aim you say...

Gee, thanks. I know my aim is bad. Still, I don't agree with these changes. I thought shotguns were fine, but the servers sometimes causes issues with their consistency.

[vsb 6171]

39 minutes ago, Kempington said:

Gee, thanks. I know my aim is bad. Still, I don't agree with these changes. I thought shotguns were fine, but the servers sometimes causes issues with their consistency.

i do agree with kempington, i feel like this shotgun balancing is a lot of work to circumvent   the actual issue of low performance servers

[Triksterism 137]

2 hours ago, Kempington said:

3 hours ago, Triksterism said:

Rewards bad aim you say...

Gee, thanks. I know my aim is bad. Still, I don't agree with these changes. I thought shotguns were fine, but the servers sometimes causes issues with their consistency.

This wasn't meant as a sleight against you. Not all mustache-related things have to be about you Kemp!

[Danimal 36]

Cs:Go buffed their Shotguns...It didnt break the game. OCA-EW > any Shotguns. So what is the problem???

Edited August 1, 2018 by Danimal