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(GAME) swft's list of suggestions

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Armas Marketplace

 

1) Update Armas Marketplace prices for weapons (lower them significantly).

2) Armas should only be selling re-skins, clothing and vehicles. So, make weapons like the Colby CSG-20 and other non re-skin weapons available through packs become available through contacts and/or the Joker Store.

 

Progression

1) Revamp how weapon and modification progression works:

  • Remove primary unslotted, 1 slotted and 2 slotted weapons from the game, only having 3 slot primary slotted weapons should help balance the game for new players, since most players are veterans anyway.
  • Secondaries should stay unslotted or 1 slotted with a pre-attached modification. This is the current state, don't change this.
  • Primaries with 1 and/or 2 pre-attached modifications should be updated to include a 2nd and/or 3rd modification.
  • Allow players to use (but not purchase from contacts) all weapon, character and vehicle modifications from the get-go. This would limit the progression to $APB instead of pure grind to reach the modification rank requirement. While this was fine when the game was populated and fresh, now it's just a big disadvantage for new players.

 

Balancing

1) Fix unbalanced missions and spots in Financial and Waterfront. I wish I had a list of them...

2) Perform a balance pass on a few weapons and modifications. A few ideas come to mind from weapons and modifications that I'm more concerned about:

  • Nerf the Low-Yield Fragmentation Grenades, from 3 to 2 grenades to match the other grenade types.
  • Nerf the Percussion Grenades, from 400 to 300 max health damage per in radius hit.
  • Nerf the Joker RFP-9, decrease its effective range from 40 m to 30 m.
  • Nerf the Joker RFP-9 'Fang', remove the Improved Rifling 3 modification and add some other non red modification to it.
  • Nerf the OBIR, decrease its ammo capacity from 10 to 7 magazines (240 to 168 bullets), make it on par with the Obeya Rifle CR762 with ~7 magazines (100 bullets). Make it bloom way more when jumping so it's not pin-point accurate.
  • Nerf the ATAC 424, increase the spread when spraying very slightly, while still allowing it to be better than the N-TEC 5 in close range but staying worse in medium range.
  • Nerf the NTEC-5, make it bloom more when jumping.
  • Nerf the AAEPD 'Volcano JC, increase its resupply time to be on par with the OSMAW.
  • Nerf the Colby PMG 28, decrease its effective range from 35 m to 32 m, which is still higher than the OCA-EW 626 (30 m).
  • Nerf the N-HVR 762, from 850 to 720 health damage per shot. Remove the link between accuracy and damage (this is quite a weird mechanic, specially for new players), make it bloom way more when jumping so it's near impossible to hit a jumpshot even at point blank.
  • Nerf Mountie SF9 'Yukon's modification, more like a bug fix, decrease its fire rate as it is way too overpowered right now. DONE
  • Nerf the NFAS-12 'True Ogre', decrease the pellet count because getting hit by this weapon literally kills the hitreg for everyone in the area.
  • Nerf the OCA-EW 626 'Whisper' and PDW-56 'Kris', increase their crouch modifier from 0.8 to 1 and lower their range from 50 m to 30 m to match the OCA-EW 626.
  • Nerf the OSCAR, lower its range to the same as the Joker SR115 Carbine and add bloom when shooting at its max fire rate, similar to what also happens with the Joker SR115 Carbine but less pronounced since it's a burst fire weapon.
  • Buff the NCR-762 'Anubis' Adeen, either completely rework it or make it a re-skin of another weapon because, in its current state, it's pretty useless. Also, remove the crosshair modification (Hunting Sight: 'Anubis') or change it to something better. DONE
  • Nerf the Spotter modification, decrease its duration from 8 to 5 seconds. Spotted players should stop being spotted after they are 100 m away from the exact position they were spotted in. Make the marker blink instead of just being a straight wallhack. The cooldown should also be 1 minute even for Premium players.
  • Remove the character/vehicle modification cooldown reduction for Premium players, it's actually "pay to win".
  • Remove consumables (yellow character modifications), their addition created a lot of unbalance (Shield and Ammo Box specifically). If you really want the Satchel Charge, Shield and other consumables in the game, just make them orange character modifications. At least, rework the Shield deployment to use a "wind-up" system where you have to stand completely still for at least 3 seconds.

3) Make Clotting Agent 3 the default health regeneration and make Clotting Agent itself Clotting Agent 2 and just have that instead of 3 modifications.

4) Reward Joker Tickets at the end of missions. More tickets the better the score, duh.

5) Don't allow Prestige 5 (P5) and Notoriety 5 (N5) players to be killed by players outside their mission. Remove them from being shown in the radar and map. Reward more APB$ per kill while being P5/N5. Right now, this system punishes players for doing good in missions and makes them choose to teamkill someone outside their mission in order to lose their bounty for their mission's sake.

6) Don't allow players to spawn using a vehicle with the Mobile Spawn Point modification when it is within 20 m of objectives.

7) Remove Green threat and merge it to Bronze. I really don't see a whole lot of difference between these 2 threat levels. I'd add Platinum and Diamond threat level too if we had 10k+ players online though, but yeah...

 

Bug Fixes

1) Fix the bug where a player can see their enemies' nametags through walls and fire hydrants. Those issues (probably) have different causes, but have the same effect. DONE

2) Fix the way a player can enter and leave vehicles since there's a small invincibility timer while performing the entering/exiting animation. (This probably requires a networking update, if it even is possible)

3) Fix entering vehicles if the chosen door cannot be visually opened (add collision check to vehicle doors), this fixes the case where a player can enter/exit a vehicle instantly without an animation.

4) Fix when a player presses the key to exit their vehicle and they go out from the wrong door instantly without the exiting animation, in an unpredictable manner. This doesn't have to do with the vehicle being too close to a wall on both sides, it just happens randomly.

5) Fix how, sometimes, another player exits their vehicle while driving fast and curving sideways which makes their character get pushed by it and then de-synced from the server. This usually happens with fast cars such as the Vegas. (This probably requires a networking update)

6) Fix Unreal Engine's built-in mouse acceleration, the in-game settings option does not remove this entirely and players rely on file changes to do it. DONE (explanation)

 

New Features

1) Finish the Scaleform UI update. There are pretty good mock-ups by ShepardHS that follow the style of the bits from the Scaleform UI we currently have. (https://forums.gamersfirst.com/topic/237-game-user-interface/) Scaleform is deprecated

2) Add the "Dedicated Automatic Matchmaking (D.A.M.)" described in a blog post from 2015. (https://apbreloaded.gamersfirst.com/2015/01/matchmaking-on-global-scale.html)

3) Add ghosting to players and their vehicles which are not part of the same mission, this avoids griefing and targeted abuse towards streamers. Maybe this could be a toggleable command for players. In my opinion, I'd just never deactivate this but, I guess some people would.

4) Add an in-game trading system. DONE

5) Add crosshair customization to the settings menu.

6) Add Always/Hold/Toggle Sprint to the settings menu.

7) Add Hold/Toggle Crouch to the settings menu.

 

Credits

Me and my bro Lumsheden.

Edited by swft
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1 minute ago, swft said:

good to know man...

 

 

Edited by NotAhegao

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Yes

Edited by Pinpuce

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30 minutes ago, swft said:

 

  • Nerf the ATAC 424, increase the spread when spraying slightly while still allowing it to be better than the N-Tec in close range but worse in medium range. (Decrease ammo capacity to 150 instead 210).

 

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33 minutes ago, swft said:

2) Armas should only be selling re-skins, clothing and vehicles. So, make weapons like the Colby CSG-20 and other non re-skin weapons available through packs become available through contacts and/or the Joker Store

While I agree with the whole Joker Store thing, almost all, if not all ARMAS guns are currently obtainable in game. I would like to see JT leases increased to 10 days though.

 

34 minutes ago, swft said:

a balance pass on weapons and modifications. Few ideas that come to mind right now:

  • Nerf the Low-Yield Fragmentation Grenades, from 3 to 2 grenades to match the other grenade types.
  • Nerf the Percussion Grenades, from 400 to 250 health damage per in radius hit.
  • Nerf the Joker RFP-9, decrease its effective range from 40 m to 30 m.
  • Nerf the Joker RFP-9 'Fang', remove the Improved Rifling 3 modification and add some other non red modification to it.
  • Nerf OBIR's ammo capacity from 10 to 7 magazines (240 to 168 bullets), make it on pair with the Obeya Rifle with ~7 magazines (100 bullets).
  • Nerf the ATAC 424, increase the spread when spraying slightly while still allowing it to be better than the N-Tec in close range but worse in medium range.
  • Nerf AAEPD 'Volcano JC's resupply time to be on pair with the OSMAW.
  • Nerf the Colby PMG 28, decrease its effective range from 35 m to 32 m, still higher than the OCA-EW 626 (30 m).
  • Nerf the N-HVR 762, from 850 to 720 health damage per shot and increase equip time to discourage quickswitching.
  • Nerf Mountie SF9 'Yukon's modification, more like a bug fix, decrease its fire rate as it is way too overpowered right now.
  • Nerf the NFAS-12 'True Ogre', decrease the fire rate because getting hit by this weapon literally kills the hitreg for everyone in the area and it also has no proper counter-play in close range.
  • Nerf the OCA-EW 626 'Whisper' and PDW-56 'Kris', increase their crouch modifier from 0.8 to 1 and lower their range from 50 m to 30 m to match the OCA-EW 626.
  • Nerf the OSCAR, lower its range to the same as the Joker SR115 Carbine and add bloom when shooting at its max fire rate, similar to what also happens with the Joker SR115 Carbine but less pronounced.
  • Buff the NCR-762 'Anubis' Adeen, either completely rework it or make it a re-skin of another weapon because, in its current state, it's pretty useless. Also, remove the crosshair modification (Hunting Sight: 'Anubis') or change it to something better.
  • Nerf the Spotter modification, decrease its duration from 8 to 5 seconds. Also, spotted players should stop being spotted after 100 m.
  • Remove the character/vehicle modification cool-down reduction for Premium players, it's actually "pay to win".
  • Remove consumables (yellow character modifications), their addition created a lot of unbalance (Shield and Ammo Box specifically). If you really want the Satchel Charge, Shield and other consumables in the game, just make them orange character modifications. At least, rework the Shield deployment to use a "wind-up" system where you have to stand completely still for at least 3 seconds.
  1. YOLOs aren't OP, though I wouldn't mind them being reduced to 2. Ideally though they'd make two versions of the YOLO, one that had reduced capacity, and one that had reduced speed and damage.
  2. Percs are the worst grenades, they don't need a nerf. However, if you want to make percs feel more fair add a sound that plays the whole time their in your hand and in the air.
  3. The RFP isn't OP, so don't nerf it.
  4. I'd rather see the mod on the Fang removed than replaced TBH. If I bought something and they just CHANGE what it does to something different that I don't necessarily want, that's dumb IMO.
  5. OBIR is fine as it is, but I guess this would be alright?
  6. The ATAC isn't OP, just easy, don't nerf it.
  7. Same as the OBIR, fine, do it if they want.
  8. The PMG is already worse than the OCA, and was never OP, so don't nerf it.
  9. Alternatively, just up its equip time to 3 seconds or something to actually remove quick switching once and for all.
  10. Yes, the Yukon is literally broken so it should be fixed.
  11. The Ogre sucks currently, so it shouldn't be nerfed, and this should be fixed with better servers and multithreading in theory.
  12. No, the OCA Whisper and variants are a unique version of the gun that trades having a red mod for increased ranged capability, this is intentional and balanced.
  13. Ehh, I guess they could do that, but the OSCAR is definitely supposed to be more ranged than the SR15.
  14. Don't do any of these things, instead reverted as I detailed HERE on the old forums. I will re-post this bug report and all related reports in full in the near future. (Note that in order to use old links you need to modify the URL to have "-old" after "https://forums. TL;DR: they accidentally added the nerf meant for the HVR to the Anubis, and then refused to revert it, claiming it would become unbalanced. Under no circumstances should the NCR be reworked, it simply either needs to be reverted to its original state or have the HVR nerf removed (and have its hitreg fixed.)
  15. Spotter isn't really good and as such is never used, why would they nerf it?
  16. Agreed, but the reduced cooldown should be the normal cooldown.
  17. They shouldn't be made orange modifications IMO, but being changed to a fourth yellow type of modification would be fine IMO.

 

47 minutes ago, swft said:

3) Remove the Clotting Agent modification and make the health regeneration default to either Clotting Agent 2 or 3. Flak Jacket and Fragile would need to be rebalanced or removed to accommodate this.Reward Joker Tickets at the end of missions. More tickets the better the score, duh.

There's no reason to do this unless you JUST want to upset the status quo. All of the green mods are currently balanced, it just so happens CA2 and CA3 are the most versatile mods, and as such the most common.

 

50 minutes ago, swft said:

4) Don't allow Prestige 5 (P5) and Notoriety 5 (N5) players to be killed by players outside their mission. Remove them from being shown in the radar and map. Reward more APB$ per kill while being P5/N5. Right now, this system punishes players for doing good in missions and makes them choose to teamkill someone in order to lose their bounty for their mission's sake.

Ehh. . . I guess that would be one way to fix it. I'd prefer that they simply changed it back so that P5 and N5 actually give increased rewards, and either make N5 players have the correct minimap icons or revert how N5 worked compared to P5.

 

51 minutes ago, swft said:

5) Don't allow players to spawn using a vehicle with the Mobile Spawn Point modification when it is within 20 m of objectives.

Sure, sounds good. Certainly I personally want them to find something to replace the 1 minute cooldown.

 

53 minutes ago, swft said:

6) Remove Green threat and merge it to Bronze.

But why?

 

54 minutes ago, swft said:

Bug Fixes

1) Fix the bug where a player can see their enemies' nametags through walls and fire hydrants. Those issues (probably) have different causes, but have the same effect.

2) Fix the way a player can enter and leave vehicles since there's a small invincibility timer while performing the entering/exiting animation. (This probably requires a networking update)

3) Fix entering vehicles if the chosen door cannot be visually opened (add wall collision check to vehicle doors), this fixes the case where a player can enter/exit a vehicle instantly without an animation.

4) Fix when a player presses the key to exit their vehicle and they go out from the wrong door instantly without the exiting animation, in an unpredictable manner. This doesn't have to do with the vehicle being too close to a wall on both sides, it just happens randomly.

5) Fix how, sometimes, another player exits their vehicle while driving fast and curving sideways which makes their character get pushed by it and then de-synced from the server. This usually happens with fast cars such as the Vegas. (This probably requires a networking update)

6) Fix Unreal Engine's built-in mouse acceleration, the in-game settings option does not remove this entirely and players rely on file changes to do it.

Sure, why not?

 

55 minutes ago, swft said:

New Features

1) Finish the Scaleform UI update. There are pretty good mock-ups by ShepardHS that follow the style of the bits from the Scaleform UI we currently have. (https://imgur.com/a/iC2E3ge)

Scaleform is a discontinued product, so they can't really finish the Scaleform UI, they need to make an entirely new one.

 

56 minutes ago, swft said:

2) Add a tab in the settings menu to customize the crosshair.

 

There are three things you should be able to do with crosshairs:

  1. Change their color.
  2. Remove bloom.
  3. Use the default crosshair instead of a weapon's custom crosshair (e.g. the crosshair on the Anubis, Stryfe, Ursus, OPGL, etc..)

Anything else pretty much is too game-effecting IMO, though as long as there's not center dots I guess I could stand it.

 

58 minutes ago, swft said:

3) Add district join queue, give priority to Premium players. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTXCf60F7Us)

I don't get why people are so obsessed with this idea. . . but I guess?

 

59 minutes ago, swft said:

4) Add the "Dedicated Automatic Matchmaking (D.A.M.)" described in a blog post from 2015. (https://apbreloaded.gamersfirst.com/2015/01/matchmaking-on-global-scale.html)

Why did you ask for a district queue if you also want this? That's basically redundant, lol.

 

59 minutes ago, swft said:

5) Add ghosting to players and their vehicles which are not part of the same mission, this avoids griefing and targeted abuse towards streamers.

No, a lot of the fun of APB is that it's ridiculous and unpredictable, this would entirely ruin the feel of APB and make the game un-fun for me and a lot of people. The solution to this is simply more GM involvement with the community and better reporting.

 

1 hour ago, swft said:

6) Add an in-game trading system.

7) Add Always/Hold/Toggle Sprint to the settings menu.

They've stated that they want to add a trade system, though if they're removing legendary trading like they said they're thinking of, this is almost a moot point.

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2 hours ago, Kewlin said:

 

  1. YOLOs aren't OP, though I wouldn't mind them being reduced to 2. Ideally though they'd make two versions of the YOLO, one that had reduced capacity, and one that had reduced speed and damage.
  2. Percs are the worst grenades, they don't need a nerf. However, if you want to make percs feel more fair add a sound that plays the whole time their in your hand and in the air.
  3. The RFP isn't OP, so don't nerf it.
  4. The ATAC isn't OP, just easy, don't nerf it.
  5. The PMG is already worse than the OCA, and was never OP, so don't nerf it.
  6. Alternatively, just up its equip time to 3 seconds or something to actually remove quick switching once and for all.
  7. The Ogre sucks currently, so it shouldn't be nerfed, and this should be fixed with better servers and multithreading in theory.
  8. Spotter isn't really good and as such is never used, why would they nerf it?

 

I agree with some of the points you brought up in your post but there are a few things I'd like to address.

 

1. Yes, the low yields are the best grenades in the game hands down. The speed, (the violence, the momentum V5DgmBA.png), the damage and the fuse time makes them way too good.

2. While I do agree that the percussion grenades are arguably the "worst" grenades in the game, that still doesn't change the fact that a silver can just hit you once with an hvr and perc the ground and you'll have no chance against it. 

3. The RFP is extremely broken. It's essentially a pocket OBIR.

4. The ATAC is overpowered (albeit not as overpowered as it used to be). 0 recoil, close to no spread. Needs a slight nerf.

5. The PMG is not worse than the OCA. The range paired with the damage is just ridiculous. 

6. The equip time has never been the issue. The issue has always been the damage. Making it somewhere around 720 damage would discourage quickswitching in the sense that you can't just 1 tap someone with an FBW and instantly switch to your HVR.

7. The True Ogre is broken. It breaks the RNG of whoever is close to it.

8. The spotter is a tad bit too good in the right hands. Being able to see someone through walls for 8 seconds by just looking at them, without them knowing you can see them is very powerful. Just because you don't see a lot of people using it it doesn't mean it's not good.

Edited by Lumshedens
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10 minutes ago, Lumshedens said:

8. The spotter is a tad bit too good in the right hands. Being able to see someone through walls for 8 seconds by just looking at them, without them knowing you can see them is very powerful. Just because you don't see a lot of people using it it doesn't mean it's not good.

The tag only lasts a few seconds and the mod itself has a 1-2min cooldown, I don't think it's all that good even in the right hands.

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6 minutes ago, Nite said:

The tag only lasts a few seconds and the mod itself has a 1-2min cooldown, I don't think it's all that good even in the right hands.

The cooldown is 90 seconds without premium and 45 seconds with premium. The "spot" lasts for 8 seconds and the enemy isn't even aware of it. It's basically an 8 second wallhack on a 45 second cooldown (assuming you have seen your enemy at least once). So yes, it's really good.

Edited by Lumshedens
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23 minutes ago, Lumshedens said:

The cooldown is 90 seconds without premium and 45 seconds with premium. The "spot" lasts for 8 seconds and the enemy isn't even aware of it. It's basically an 8 second wallhack on a 45 second cooldown (assuming you have seen your enemy at least once). So yes, it's really good.

Figures I'd have gotten the cooldown times wrong given how this game loves to round up ability cooldowns for some strange reason.

 

You actually can see tags on your own character though, flare/spotter/tagger marks all work the same way in the code (though if your camera is zoomed in you may well miss it).

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they already stated they are implementing battle eye anti cheat in the next patch.

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May I just say that nerfing almost every single gun is not the solution. Personally I prefer the route Bungie is taking on leveling the playing field within Destiny 2. Rather than nerfing guns they are buffing underpowered weapons.

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Make VIP marker blip every 3 seconds or so to update the location and not continuous like it is right now

Edited by hack
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4 minutes ago, hack said:

Make VIP marker blip every 3 seconds or so to update the location and not continuous like it is right now

 

That could be cool. Also instead of having VIP missions where there's only 1 team with a VIP, make both teams get a VIP each like the mission in Asylum.

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12 hours ago, swft said:

Buff the NCR-762 'Anubis' Adeen, either completely rework it or make it a re-skin of another weapon because, in its current state, it's pretty useless. Also, remove the crosshair modification (Hunting Sight: 'Anubis') or change it to something better.

  • Marked for Death: Functions similarly to Spotter (you can see tag through walls), for less of a duration (3 seconds?). Puts a Ankh about their head. This instead of it's Hunting sight mod, would make people consider using the gun. As it stands it's useless.

 

 

12 hours ago, swft said:

1) Fix unbalanced missions and spots in Financial and Waterfront.

  • They did a long time ago, every just because some are harder to content doesn't mean they should remove them. In my guide I go over some of the harder spots. I plan on adding more, with videos instead of screenshots soon. If you wanted all spots to be identical why don't we all play on a flat boring plane.

 

 

12 hours ago, swft said:

Progression

 

  • Revamp how weapon and modification progression works:
  • Remove primary unslotted, 1 slotted and 2 slotted weapons from the game.
  • Secondaries should stay unslotted or 1 slotted with a pre-attached mod (like it currently is).
  • Primaries with 1 or 2 pre-attached modifications should be updated to include a 2nd and 3rd modification.
  • Keep primary 3 slotted weapons, this should help balance some of the advantages an older player has against a newer player.
  • Allow players to use (but not purchase from contacts) all weapon and character modifications from the get-go.
  • So make it horizontal progression instead of vertical? (Like cosmetics instead of modification and guns etc) Worked out well for Sea of Thieves, jk, it didn't and a lot of people complained. What would you implement instead of mods to unlock. Prestige skins that nobody will see?  People won't play if they don't feel they are progressing.

 

 

12 hours ago, swft said:

3) Remove the Clotting Agent modification and make the health regeneration default to either Clotting Agent 2 or 3. Flak Jacket and Fragile would need to be rebalanced or removed to accommodate this.

  • Another thing to change/take out without any alternative offered in it's place? Ok.

 

 

12 hours ago, swft said:

Nerf the Spotter modification, decrease its duration from 8 to 5 seconds. Also, spotted players should stop being spotted after 100 m.

  • No, this mod is either really good or useless depending on the person using it. It should stay this way, people should just be more aware of it.

 

 

12 hours ago, swft said:

Nerf the N-HVR 762, from 850 to 720 health damage per shot and increase equip time to discourage quickswitching.

  • I remember when they increased secondary equip time to discourage quickswitching. Didn't last long, people will just find a new way (perc/hvr loyo/hvr). Not opposed to the damage drop but I like that it's already not a one shot kill like in most games. Though it won't make much of a difference overall.

 

 

12 hours ago, swft said:

Nerf the Joker RFP-9, decrease its effective range from 40 m to 30 m.

 

Nerf the Joker RFP-9 'Fang', remove the Improved Rifling 3 modification and add some other non red modification to it.

 

11 hours ago, Kewlin said:

The RFP isn't OP, so don't nerf it.
I'd rather see the mod on the Fang removed than replaced TBH. If I bought something and they just CHANGE what it does to something different that I don't necessarily want, that's dumb IMO.

  • The Rapid shift to the RFP proves it's very good if not the strongest pistol right now. These nerfs are ill conceived. It works well as a long range pistol. You should nerf it, but nerf hipfire accuracy greatly. It shouldn't be able to compete with close range pistols (FBW / Frog)

 

Don't know why I made this reply, all of one person will read it.

 

Make VIP marker blip every 3 seconds or so to update the location and not continuous like it is right now

For fight club maybe? For missions it encourages the team with the VIP to work together. Sure it's not the best end stage but it's pretty unique mode to APB.

Edited by Dexem
Added additional quote & reply

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10 hours ago, Nite said:

Figures I'd have gotten the cooldown times wrong given how this game loves to round up ability cooldowns for some strange reason.

 

You actually can see tags on your own character though, flare/spotter/tagger marks all work the same way in the code (though if your camera is zoomed in you may well miss it).

You can see your own tags if you get hit by a tagger or a flare gun. Not the spotter.

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@Kewlin The PMG is not balanced. I know that RNG made this kill, but the range is just insane for an SMG.

 

Also, I subscribe to what was said by @Lumshedens

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1 minute ago, swft said:

 

 

@Kewlin The PMG is not balanced. I know that RNG made this kill, but the range is just insane for an SMG.

 

Also, I subscribe to what was said by @Lumshedens

no man the pmg is fine

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Whisper has the same range, ACES smg has the same range what is the complaint here?

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2 minutes ago, Dexem said:

Whisper has the same range, ACES smg has the same range what is the complaint here?

 

Well, I suggested a range nerf for the Whisper as well... The ACES SMG has way more spread than the other 2 iirc, so it's not even comparable.

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Being able to min ttk at 35mish (what you showed in the video) is pretty rare for the pmg let alone all smgs. I think smg's are really well balanced with the OCA potentially in need of slight tuning as it's top of the class.

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3 hours ago, swft said:

~snip~

Just because you got a one in a million min-TTK kill at 20m doesn't mean the PMG is OP, lol.

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9 minutes ago, Kewlin said:

Just because you got a one in a million min-TTK kill at 20m doesn't mean the PMG is OP, lol.

That happens all the time.

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