Weapon Balance

[Nagletz 215]

2 hours ago, lilpiggy said:

Or just remove the ability for the Percusion Grenades to stun.

I second this. Perc nades are quite annoying, yes, but they still present some cqc fast-paced play style. There is no PIG's fault that ppl abuse it. PIG is still very good in quickswitching after some sniper/shotgun shot, making insta stuns. After the nerf, I doubt it can be used so.

[lilpiggy 30]

26 minutes ago, Frosi said:

The PIG has no reason to be at 950 Stamina damage, it allows for way too many unintended mechanics such as "Pig-Switching" that reduce its actual time to stun to .6 (Equip time of the PIG). This works with a ton of weapons in the game. The ISSR-B for example deals 170 stamina damage a shot and is extremely good in CQC, there is no pushing someone that is using that Combo as they will take you out of the game almost instantly, especially if they have cover to hide behind. Rather than adjusting all of these weapons to have less stamina damage the PIG had its reduced so it is mostly the same but don't have its primary interactions come down to cheesing it into a 1 shot stun.

This was not the reason given for the change. The reason was the PIG + Perc combo.

 

There are tons of weapon combinations, that don't involve the PIG, that are difficult to push. But that is a general problem of the game play design as i stated further up.

 

LTL is under powered and now it even gets nerfed. G1 hasn't touched LTL since the beta version. If this is supposed to be a thorough weapon balance, the rest of the LTL weapons all need a buff.

[Nickolai 206]

Overall good changes but I believe there are some that need discussing.

 

FAR -  I cant justify the nerf since I do not see it being a main pick in fights. It doesn't outclass the NTEC or ATAC. Maybe its because im only on NA.

SNR - This one hurts me the most. The one advantage that it has was taken away. While I do understand of the quick-switching abuse I barely see it to be justified for nerfing.

 

OBIR - Bolt Timer added makes sense since the high tier players abuse it, but the only real advantage it had over the CR762 is the Ammo Pool. You will notice that you drain a lot of ammo while using the OBIR, now it will be even less picked. OBIR is not that popular to begin with. 

 

MANIC - Another weapon I do not see (on NA) being used. Its recoil and ADS requirement make it an unpopular choice for close range fighting. 

 

ACT44 - I do see what you are trying to do with it, only concern is the Last Stand Variant that has an integrated Mob Sling. Now it will deploy even slower making that variant almost (if not) obsolete.

RSA - Despite the bloom recovery I do not think the other nerfs will compensate for it. I think it will stay unused.

 

Fight me in the comments!

[ReaperTheButcher 177]

2 hours ago, lilpiggy said:

That is wrong. I am playing the game since closed beta.

I heard that phrase too many times from clowns like you, you dont actually play the game by the looks of it.

[lilpiggy 30]

Just now, ReaperTheButcher said:

I heard that phrase too many times from clowns like you, you dont actually play the game by the looks of it.

I am a clown? I stated facts. If you don't believe me try it out yourself:

Hit someone with the PIG and then hit 3 shots with STAR, Joker or N-TEC. The PIG does 950 stamina damage plus each round of the rifles do 20 stamina damage that results in 1010 in total stamina damage. But it will not result in a stun. Because those rifles don't have the ability to stun. Very simple.

[PingOVER9000 189]

10 minutes ago, Nickolai said:

FAR -  I cant justify the nerf since I do not see it being a main pick in fights. It doesn't outclass the NTEC or ATAC. Maybe its because im only on NA.

Nope, neither in EU is a lot of used and people have it too, as AR still prefer to use NTEC (or ATAC).

Agreed, this nerf has no sense and the weapon is already scaling (randomly eh) bad with red mods such as IR3, CJ etc, using themthe weird bloom is just get increase, consequently the precision of the wepon too.

 

13 minutes ago, Nickolai said:

SNR - This one hurts me the most. The one advantage that it has was taken away. While I do understand of the quick-switching abuse I barely see it to be justified for nerfing.

it's so meme gun, the only thing hurt is your pride for getting killed by this gun... personal opinion eh

Anyway it may be welcome better if with the quickswitch nerf, they make something about its accuracy? ...Losted a opportunity 

 

15 minutes ago, Nickolai said:

OBIR - Bolt Timer added makes sense since the high tier players abuse it, but the only real advantage it had over the CR762 is the Ammo Pool. You will notice that you drain a lot of ammo while using the OBIR, now it will be even less picked. OBIR is not that popular to begin with. 

 the nerf  has almost no sense for me, the matter was the CQC/ quickswitching aspect but if one manage to  make 4/6 perfect shots for FBW or .45+ one OBIR burst before one with CQC/ AR kill you, the blaming is on all the second one, TTK talking a CQC or Ntec, atac etc user may kill u not one but 2 times your opponent... 

 

Then  for fact apb is mainly a  game  0-65 m, OBIR gave me the idea of a assist weapon that work well in big groups or fight clubs (in baylin is certainly top tier for how many assist/ stolen kills  ), mediocre and NOT POPULAR in random districts/ mathups for the fact obir+secondary doesnt cover well the gap in medium range, HVR and Scout are a lot more nuke

 

Agreed another Rotten weapon.

31 minutes ago, Nickolai said:

MANIC - Another weapon I do not see (on NA) being used. Its recoil and ADS requirement make it an unpopular choice for close range fighting. 

Agreed, it's not excatly well suited/ CQC all around such OCA/PMG/ JG etc in fight clubs doesnt shine but in casual district the Manic is a little bit too good, it deserve a little nerf, but not all the three ones choiced, one of them was enough..

 

Overnerfed?

35 minutes ago, Nickolai said:

ACT44 - I do see what you are trying to do with it, only concern is the Last Stand Variant that has an integrated Mob Sling. Now it will deploy even slower making that variant almost (if not) obsolete.

Agreed, as a lot weapons above nobody asked for a nerf or change.

ACT44 Last stand will be another rotten weapon to leave in locker.
 

37 minutes ago, Nickolai said:

RSA - Despite the bloom recovery I do not think the other nerfs will compensate for it. I think it will stay unused.

Me too I have the ame doubts, but I guess a try  may worth,

 

39 minutes ago, Nickolai said:

Fight me in the comments!

Seem, we are grossly of the same opinion 

[Resine 144]

That's funny though, instead of making weapons more accurate, more fluent between switching to secondary and primary you just nerf it.

Let's make weapon less accurate,

Let's make weapons equip longer,

Let's add weird bolt time mechanics,

 

The point I want to make is that I don't really care about changes to any weapon in particular, it just it seems to me that you want to stale and slow down entire gameplay to further decline the fun and freedom of guns this game once had.

[Kommaranda 44]

6 hours ago, Resine said:

That's funny though, instead of making weapons more accurate, more fluent between switching to secondary and primary you just nerf it.

Let's make weapon less accurate,

Let's make weapons equip longer,

Let's add weird bolt time mechanics,

 

The point I want to make is that I don't really care about changes to any weapon in particular, it just it seems to me that you want to stale and slow down entire gameplay to further decline the fun and freedom of guns this game once had.

Lets add wierd crosshair mechanics to punish people who are able to aim properly under high pressure in cqc with a sniper.

Lets give every car the same HP without thinking about the other stats once.

 

[nikitos5 51]

Y'all tripping about PIG but how many actual players who use it have you seen in the game?

[Noob_Guardian 418]

8 hours ago, Nickolai said:

Overall good changes but I believe there are some that need discussing.

 

FAR -  I cant justify the nerf since I do not see it being a main pick in fights. It doesn't outclass the NTEC or ATAC. Maybe its because im only on NA.

SNR - This one hurts me the most. The one advantage that it has was taken away. While I do understand of the quick-switching abuse I barely see it to be justified for nerfing.

 

OBIR - Bolt Timer added makes sense since the high tier players abuse it, but the only real advantage it had over the CR762 is the Ammo Pool. You will notice that you drain a lot of ammo while using the OBIR, now it will be even less picked. OBIR is not that popular to begin with. 

 

MANIC - Another weapon I do not see (on NA) being used. Its recoil and ADS requirement make it an unpopular choice for close range fighting. 

 

ACT44 - I do see what you are trying to do with it, only concern is the Last Stand Variant that has an integrated Mob Sling. Now it will deploy even slower making that variant almost (if not) obsolete.

RSA - Despite the bloom recovery I do not think the other nerfs will compensate for it. I think it will stay unused.

 

Fight me in the comments!

FAR - Considered better than the NTEC by a number of players, but NTEC is still seen as a more viable option at times because more people have one. Overall I think FAR would win, at least until this patch.

 

SNR - Yeah this was dumb

 

Obir - Needed the bolt timer agree

 

Manic - It's used by several, i had used it a bit while leveling pointman. It needed a jump shooting nerf and possibly an accuracy or something nerf (I guess they increased ttk) so i'm not necessarilly opposed to this. It's not very seen because it was part of a pack where it was considered the only decent gun in.

 

Act 44 - Weird change im not in support of it.

 

RSA - Yeah this was still a wierd thing, especially since they seem to have further increased its TTK via fire rate interval change - so it's still going to be like trash tier, but i hope im wrong.

22 minutes ago, nikitos5 said:

Y'all tripping about PIG but how many actual players who use it have you seen in the game?

It's because the whiney crims and they didn't want to nerf perc stamina damage.  They should increase the range to 15-20m and give it 2 shots with a 1.05tts now that they effectively gimped it by every standard.

Edited September 16, 2020 by Noob_Guardian

[Nagletz 215]

I'm sure LO will revert some of these changes they made, I mean, there is no reason to make meta bad if non-meta bad too, lol...

Only nerfs I can agree with is pmg and atac changes. 

They could start with only buffing underpowered guns, and then look at the meta... people would liked that, but it didn't mattered for people who simply don't own these guns, much of these guns are armas/jt store only (why the fuck btw?).

But ok, i still have no choice but wait lol

[LilyRain 674]

14 hours ago, Frosi said:

The PIG has no reason to be at 950 Stamina damage, it allows for way too many unintended mechanics such as "Pig-Switching" that reduce its actual time to stun to .6 (Equip time of the PIG). This works with a ton of weapons in the game. The ISSR-B for example deals 170 stamina damage a shot and is extremely good in CQC, there is no pushing someone that is using that Combo as they will take you out of the game almost instantly, especially if they have cover to hide behind. Rather than adjusting all of these weapons to have less stamina damage the PIG had its reduced so it is mostly the same but don't have its primary interactions come down to cheesing it into a 1 shot stun.

It has every reason to be at 950 stamina-damage, dear-Unicorn

 

PIG-switching requires a lot of firepower to be sacrificed as well as overall much less versatility just to be in the overly-risky position to make this possible. Not only the player will be severely and objectively not helpful to their team (because dealing stamina damage and soft damage are on different universes), LTL's soft-damage contribution is meaningless towards assist kills, which is a guaranteed scenario if the PIG misses unless the player is playing against legit Bronzes, which may still land a kill despite bullets missing due to the gap in weapons being severely absurd. APB is currently being pushed into a direction that is one-step-short from being a tab-targetting Asian MMO.. player-skill is being pushed from barely useful to useless.

 

To put things into perspective, on top of all these sacrifices, an LTLer MUST play perfectly as well as not get randomly-denied by the server to achieve a THEORETICALLY stun time of 0.6s (practically, it is more than 0.6s), which is still not fast enough to subdue SHAW and Euryale at their stock variants! One will never see a Euryale without cooling jacket. It gets even worse in Asylum where a cj3 Euryale literally deletes people in 0.54 seconds! Not even the Cop-15 PIG can match that at perfect execution and server latency of 1ms. Yet Euryale gets to do it with zero effort and risk on ALL fronts! This is simply not okay.

 

A GOOD combination of LTL & PIG at perfect execution were still 'Less Than Lethal', both figuratively and practically on the field. This change does not come with a buff to LTLs Arsenal in all of the other aspects that are already below the floor to compensate.

------------------------------------------

- Players always push in APB with grenades. It is a law due to how APB is currently. Without grenades, the pushing-player will lose to almost anyone that has corner-advantage. This is not a sound justification to further nerf the over-nerfed LTL as the same argument can be used to nerf anything in the game. Furthermore, one can simply push a 0.6s PIG-user with a Percussion Grenade even, that panic-button works wonders. What's worse is that the button can be pushed twice for a juicy 80% damage and be resupplied infinitely from a nearby parked team-vehicle or by just pressing 5 through Field Supplier while the PIG will be useless due to the PIG's range limit of mere 9 meters.

 

- The opposite can be said and is more solid, ISSR is the weapon that has no business dealing stamina-damage. Kill that weapon's stamina-damage instead.

 

Please revert this change and instead tackle what needs to be tackled, Percussion Grenades. This change is uncalled for and doesn't solve the actual cheese, perc+PIG and perc+everything. All it does is actually promote more perc+PIGing than respectable LTL-play, no lie.

Edited September 16, 2020 by LilyRain

[SK4LP 62]

6 hours ago, Nagletz said:

I'm sure LO will revert some of these changes they made, I mean, there is no reason to make meta bad if non-meta bad too, lol...

Only nerfs I can agree with is pmg and atac changes. 

They could start with only buffing underpowered guns, and then look at the meta... people would liked that, but it didn't mattered for people who simply don't own these guns, much of these guns are armas/jt store only (why the fuck btw?).

But ok, i still have no choice but wait lol

hope they won t change mechanic evry month ...

leveling is quite useless, we should gain some "exotic" weap after lvl 200

 

here, i only see CAP40... we will see more player with it ... after the nabmaker, the nabatac... now the nabCAP ... just spray and kill

[Nagletz 215]

21 minutes ago, SK4LP said:

hope they won t change mechanic evry month ...

leveling is quite useless, we should gain some "exotic" weap after lvl 200

 

here, i only see CAP40... we will see more player with it ... after the nabmaker, the nabatac... now the nabCAP ... just spray and kill

We need CAP 40 NFCP 3

[TzickyT 212]

well i liked the changes ... maybe som changes unnessecary but i liked what i saw

[OCrazyGuyO 22]

Bronze server ATAC kids still spray that thing down range rofl

[Nagletz 215]

6 hours ago, OCrazyGuyO said:

Bronze server ATAC kids still spray that thing down range rofl

You know me personally, and i'm never used it and not going to  

[lilpiggy 30]

I tried the nerfed PIG and my suspicions are true. It's pretty much useless now. Turned from a high risk - high reward weapon into a high risk weapon.

 

What's the point of having a secondary with max 10m range and a TTS 2.25s? That is more than twice the TTS of the TG-8 plus the range limit. And when you miss 1 shot with it the TTS is at 4.5s. That makes absolutely no sense.

 

The only combination the PIG now works with is the Stabba. Since it is half useful at close range, but it works much worse than before because of the increased TTS. It makes no sense with the NL9 or the O-PGL 79 CD.

 

The PIG nerf was a nerf for the whole LTL arsenal which was totally not needed. If you want to balance the weapons including LTL you need to buff the rest of the LTL  since they are all under powered.

 

The Nano is now a better LTL option than the PIG which is just stupid.

 

Please revert the PIG nerf and reduce the stamina damage or stamina damage blast radius for the Percussion Grenades instead. It will accomplish the same goal but leaves LTL intact or at least the way it was.

[thelinux 51]

In general, I have to say I really like the way APB plays with the revamped weapon balance.

 

• For me, the Scout change made the biggest difference, to me it now feels exactly the way it should. Same goes for the Commander - I wouldn't even call that a nerf, it just feels "right" now.
• I also love that the PMG (and Whisper) don't quite have that random insane range anymore, as well as the PIG nerf fix
• The OBIR is now a lot less mobile (maybe less exciting to play with), and I subjectively dislike that, but this change was justified and necessary.

 

• Personally, I think the N-TEC 5 is just a bit too much of a laser right now - I felt like it was really good and easy to use even before the change, but I kind of was the only one ...?
• Furthermore, the JG might be sort of a problem in cqc as it, with cover, obliterates anything, but then again, it doesn't have a lot of range and tends to lose against SMGs without cover. How would anyone ever balance high-damage shotguns in a shooter anyway.
• The Carbine desperately needed more reliabilty and this was achieved, but I wouldn't say it's really on par with the OSCAR (as you claimed it should be).

 

I'm looking forward to another change including some non-meta weapons in order to get those back in the game (COBR-A, Norsemen,... this game clearly has too many weapons tbh)

 

 

Edited September 19, 2020 by thelinux
PIG was a fix not a nerf lmao

[SkittyM 287]

On 9/15/2020 at 12:57 PM, ReaperTheButcher said:

I heard that phrase too many times from clowns like you, you dont actually play the game by the looks of it.

Late to the party but Lilpiggy is correct.  Stamina damage does not affect a guns ability to stun.  Following your logic means the OCA Nano shouldn't be able to stun, or the DMR as both of these weapons do more health damage than stamina damage.  There's a simple flag that determines if a weapon can stun or not, nothing more nothing less.

[ReaperTheButcher 177]

1 minute ago, SkittyM said:

Late to the party but Lilpiggy is correct.  Stamina damage does not affect a guns ability to stun.  Following your logic means the OCA Nano shouldn't be able to stun, or the DMR as both of these weapons do more health damage than stamina damage.  There's a simple flag that determines if a weapon can stun or not, nothing more nothing less.

Wrong, i told that if you somehow get your stamina damaged before those weapons hit you, for example falling from higher place can result in a stamina damage or getting hit by the PIG, you can shot someone with the weapons mentioned by you and stun them, both the Nano and the DMR has health damage higher than their stamina damage, but if you get your stamina lower enough before those weapons hit you, you will eventually get stunned before getting killed by those weapons.

[vsb 6171]

Just now, ReaperTheButcher said:

Wrong, i told that if you somehow get your stamina damaged before those weapons hit you, for example falling from higher place can result in a stamina damage or getting hit by the PIG, you can shot someone with the weapons mentioned by you and stun them, both the Nano and the DMR has health damage higher than their stamina damage, but if you get your stamina lower enough before those weapons hit you, you will eventually get stunned before getting killed by those weapons.

he's right tho, most weapons can't stun no matter how much you skew your stamina damage

 

if you want the easiest example, you can't hit someone with a pig and then stun them with a jg

[ReaperTheButcher 177]

Just now, 404 said:

he's right tho, most weapons can't stun no matter how much you skew your stamina damage

 

if you want the easiest example, you can't hit someone with a pig and then stun them with a jg

A hit from the JG and then a PIG shot will do the job i might have mistaken between those, as you said most weapons cant stun but a few have higher enough stamina damage to stun you if you get hit by a PIG or a good stun grenade.

[vsb 6171]

Just now, ReaperTheButcher said:

A hit from the JG and then a PIG shot will do the job i might have mistaken between those, as you said most weapons cant stun but a few have higher enough stamina damage to stun you if you get hit by a PIG or a good stun grenade.

the point is not the amount of stamina damage, every weapon deals enough stamina damage to stun before killing after a pre-nerf pig shot

 

and yet every weapon is not capable of stunning someone, because not every weapon has the stun flag

[ReaperTheButcher 177]

4 minutes ago, 404 said:

the point is not the amount of stamina damage, every weapon deals enough stamina damage to stun before killing after a pre-nerf pig shot

 

and yet every weapon is not capable of stunning someone, because not every weapon has the stun flag

Thats the point, you shouldn't be able hit someone with the primary weapon (Lets say the ISSR-B) and then finish him off with a PIG shot that shouldn't happen with weapons that are lethal.

Edited September 19, 2020 by ReaperTheButcher