Premium Extension Proof: silver (and gold-silvers) are the main player base.

[NotZombieBiscuit 3146]

7 hours ago, GhosT said:

 

Too bad that APB has never been a competitive focused game, and will never be.

APB has always been competitive focused. Combat, celebrity, and creativity is the three pillars RTW created the game on.

 

I think you are taking me as saying competitive as ESPORTS ULTRA COMPETITIVE RANKED.  I mean competitive in the way that it is a competition focused shooter in a format that promotes player/team accomplishment from its base mechanics. Like almost every shooter.

[CookiePuss 5378]

10 minutes ago, Noob_Guardian said:

just because people are competing doesn't make it a competition, which means its not competitive

this is what you sound like right now

[Noob_Guardian 417]

8 minutes ago, CookiePuss said:

this is what you sound like right now

So a team of bronzes getting face stomped by golds is competitive? Or better yet, a team of gold purposely losing is competitive?

I like your thinking, maybe more golds should dethreat to be competitive. Since clearly gold vs gold isn't.

 

Casual overwatch isn't competitive, Casual CSGO isn't competitive, Casual Siege isn't competitive.

 

Simply pvp doesn't make something competitive, and APB has long since not been competitive. Only a handful of players act and pretend like it is. Feel free to check the main APB site or even the wiki page and look for the term "competitive". Unlike Overwatch and CSGO, you won't find it.

Edited March 31, 2020 by Noob_Guardian

[Haganu 104]

5 hours ago, iRawwwN said:

Whether you like it or not, APB is a competitive game. Two players PvP'ing each other, both trying to COMPETE and WIN. It might have the Open World aspect and might be more random than other games, but there is STILL a competitive edge to the game.

 

Not everyone is cheating. ?_? Maybe take the time to learn the game and you'll see.

 

3 hours ago, Noob_Guardian said:

IF APB was competitive, there'd be leaderboards, leagues, competitive clan systems, and many more systems in place for people to strive to be better. Just because 2 people pvp doesn't mean people are trying to win, I legit lose on purpose against newbies at times, just pvp doesnt make stuff competitive. There's a number of people who play for fun, not winning.

 

APB is the kind of game that has all the negative aspects of a competitive game without having the good aspects. 

It has all the toxicity, cheating, exploiting. The shitty culture...

 

But it doesn't have any global rankings, seasonal rewards or anything that makes competition actually attractive. 

It does have an ELO system that got ruined along the way by just having to press F or being near someone pressing it...

But where are the rewards for actually being good? Bragging rights and toxicity aren't rewards.

 

Unopposed missions give less money, standing, don't improve weapon roles and are plain boring. FIx those and nobody will wait for opp anymore.

Competition in this game is forced upon players in a way. And more often than not in a poor manner.

Edited March 31, 2020 by Haganu
I'll go ahead and call it pseudo-competitive, because other than it's being forced there's no real reason for people to be competitive if you think about it on a technical aspect. Competition in this game isn't a plus for this game either. It's bad.

[Caesruul 16]

On 3/29/2020 at 1:43 PM, GhosT said:

Not always.. scout and csg was super common when they had their overpowered phase. Also troublemaker.

 

Jesus, troublemaker shoulda got fixed in two weeks within release, I don't know what that was all about.
 

[Mitne 724]

On 3/29/2020 at 7:49 PM, CookiePuss said:

As I understand it, threat distribution in APB looks something like this.

 

This graph is ideal to put commentary on at what kind of players are in that graph:

 

(Personal feel about what kind of players this threat compose of - sure, not applicable to everyone but bigger majority of this playerbase)

[Fenton 210]

Ah, so I'm either unreliable or a filthy casual. Got it.

[CookiePuss 5378]

1 hour ago, Mitne said:

This graph is ideal to put commentary on at what kind of players are in that graph:

 

(Personal feel about what kind of players this threat compose of - sure, not applicable to everyone but bigger majority of this playerbase)

not bad

[iRawwwN 283]

10 hours ago, Noob_Guardian said:

IF APB was competitive, there'd be leaderboards, leagues, competitive clan systems, and many more systems in place for people to strive to be better. Just because 2 people pvp doesn't mean people are trying to win, I legit lose on purpose against newbies at times, just pvp doesnt make stuff competitive. There's a number of people who play for fun, not winning.

com·pet·i·tive

/kəmˈpedədiv/

Learn to pronounce

adjective

adjective: competitive

1.

relating to or characterized by competition.

 

 

com·pe·ti·tion

an event or contest in which people compete.

 

 

Players COMPETE against each other.  Every single match you partake in is an event where you compete against another player. So long as you're not a DETHREATER or a "play for fun" type of person, each match, each fire fight is a type of competition. I'm sure once LO completes the APB EU and get everything figured all those will be added YET you'll still probably be the person to say "oh apb isn't competitive".

 

Just because you can't be good at a game doesn't mean no one else strives to be top.

 

 

10 hours ago, Noob_Guardian said:

I legit lose on purpose against newbies at times,

Good job, if the ELO system in this game worked as it should you'd be artificially inflating those poor players ELO causing them to play against better players faster... which could possibly end with them leaving the game. That is, if it happened constantly, 1 win against a low ELO gold/silver shouldn't match them with high ELO Golds.

[Mitne 724]

3 hours ago, Fenton said:

Ah, so I'm either unreliable or a filthy casual. Got it.

Depends in which place you see yourself

Also litteraly under that graph:

4 hours ago, Mitne said:

(Personal feel about what kind of players this threat compose of - sure, not applicable to everyone but bigger majority of this playerbase)

 

[TheJellyGoo 343]

11 hours ago, Noob_Guardian said:

[...]

Casual overwatch isn't competitive, Casual CSGO isn't competitive, Casual Siege isn't competitive.

 

Simply pvp doesn't make something competitive, and APB has long since not been competitive. Only a handful of players act and pretend like it is. Feel free to check the main APB site or even the wiki page and look for the term "competitive". Unlike Overwatch and CSGO, you won't find it.

That's where you're wrong. What you should say is that they are not "ranked". People still play to win in them, while arguably less compared to those playing the "competitive(ranked)" mode, however that is based on an individuals attitude towards it. That doesn't change the fact that the game overall is a competitive pvp game.

Matching it to APB would make Fightclub the usual "casual" mode while mission district is the "competitive(ranked)" mode. So saying that APB isn't a competitive game is the same as saying CS:GO isn't. Difference is CS is just so much better balanced than the RNG fest that APB is. So no, your personal attitude about something doesn't change it's fundamentals.

 

In case you're still mixing up gamemode names take a look at Dota 2. Because there it's not casual/competitive mode but unranked/ranked. Might be easier to understand.

 

 

 

Edited March 31, 2020 by TheJellyGoo

[Ellix 415]

Guys obviously there are more gold and silvers!

Because the bronzes are so sick of your freaking de-threaters that they don't play anymore...

[Noob_Guardian 417]

1 hour ago, TheJellyGoo said:

That's where you're wrong. What you should say is that they are not "ranked". People still play to win in them, while arguably less compared to those playing the "competitive(ranked)" mode, however that is based on an individuals attitude towards it. That doesn't change the fact that the game overall is a competitive pvp game.

Matching it to APB would make Fightclub the usual "casual" mode while mission district is the "competitive(ranked)" mode. So saying that APB isn't a competitive game is the same as saying CS:GO isn't. Difference is CS is just so much better balanced than the RNG fest that APB is. So no, your personal attitude about something doesn't change it's fundamentals.

 

In case you're still mixing up gamemode names take a look at Dota 2. Because there it's not casual/competitive mode but unranked/ranked. Might be easier to understand.

 

 

 

except that CSGO's RNG isn't? APB Shots fired hit within the reticule, CSGO, shots fired end up 5 feet from the reticule.

 

Again, look for "competitive" on APB or the wikipedia, it doesnt say it because APB isn't competitive, APB isn't even ranked. The only "rankings" are objective based leaderboards in FC, and FC isn't even arguably competitive since you litterally get high on the leaderboards simply by playing.

[Benguin 141]

I don't get why people even bring up dethreaters, they are the cancer of the game and no one enjoys playing with or against them, neither in the silver nor bronze districts. Just a bunch of mouth breathers that can't accept that there are people better than them. They should just be banned.

 

But ontopic, it's a scary thought to me that a game like this is balanced around players that don't really understand what they are doing. Ideally you want developers with background in competitive gaming, so that they don't have to listen to the community or only a select few. Don't think it's the case here though. Unless 'Barbie and Her Sisters: Puppy Rescue' had a competitive scene?

[Rebelliousness 85]

On 3/30/2020 at 8:20 PM, Flaws said:

Precisely this. And lesser players should focus on getting better at said competitive game. That's how it is in every other competitive focused game.

Says the multiple banned gold guy.

On 3/31/2020 at 6:50 PM, Benguin said:

I don't get why people even bring up dethreaters, they are the cancer of the game and no one enjoys playing with or against them, neither in the silver nor bronze districts. Just a bunch of mouth breathers that can't accept that there are people better than them. They should just be banned.

 

But ontopic, it's a scary thought to me that a game like this is balanced around players that don't really understand what they are doing. Ideally you want developers with background in competitive gaming, so that they don't have to listen to the community or only a select few. Don't think it's the case here though. Unless 'Barbie and Her Sisters: Puppy Rescue' had a competitive scene?

APB is a simple game... it works when matches are basically balanced and fair.  For that to work, the concept of dethreating troll griefers rolling the weaker population daily exterminating them as a playerbase is problematic.  What Little Orbit does NOT need are the fanbois of the gold-trollers telling them that everything is fine, leave it the way it is.

 

Merged.

 

As for competitiveness... that isn't the issue and it doesn't require rocket science or years of experience. It means keeping the game as FAIR and BALANCED as possible... and minimizing the exploits... a stacked dethreated gold premade group with all the meta legendaries rolling the Bronze district daily is NOT... shooter competitiveness... it's exploitation out of control... and it's succeeding in eliminating the main (non-gold level) playerbase and ruining the experience of new guys who try the game out.

Anyone finagling a justification is without a doubt part of the problem, because it's literally unjustifiable... That isn't a "COMPETITIVE" game... that's a "GRIEFING" game... with the unrealistic expectation that the main playerbase simply plays and logs in to DIE repeatedly with no realistic chance of experiencing or enjoying the game as it was meant to be played.

[iRawwwN 283]

1 hour ago, Noob_Guardian said:

Again, look for "competitive" on APB or the wikipedia, it doesnt say it because APB isn't competitive, APB isn't even ranked. The only "rankings" are objective based leaderboards in FC, and FC isn't even arguably competitive since you litterally get high on the leaderboards simply by playing.

Oh wow, so by that logic Valorant isn't going to be a competitive game because it doesn't say it is? Listen, if two people are competing against each other to win a match there is some form of competition happening. These two players are trying to be better than the other. It doesn't matter if the only reward is basically to FLEX on the loser. The person who wins over and over will make a name for themselves, and will become renown on the game... even if it's only a 1k pop game.

 

19 minutes ago, Rebelliousness said:

Says the multiple banned gold guy.

It doesn't matter that he has PREVIOUSLY cheated, Flaws still knows the game. He's put enough hours into the game to know how to play, how to counter etc. He's still a high-ELO Gold.

 

14 minutes ago, Rebelliousness said:

a stacked dethreated gold premade group with all the meta legendaries rolling the Bronze district daily is NOT... shooter competitiveness...

Of course it's not competitive, they're clearly expoliting the games ELO mechanics and should be banned. Yet, if that same 4 man was in the correct district vs'ing players of equal skill then it'd be competitive. You need to step back from the computer, take a shower and clear your head. You are not getting ANY of the points that have been said in this thread.

[TheJellyGoo 343]

2 hours ago, Noob_Guardian said:

except that CSGO's RNG isn't? APB Shots fired hit within the reticule, CSGO, shots fired end up 5 feet from the reticule.

 

Again, look for "competitive" on APB or the wikipedia, it doesnt say it because APB isn't competitive, APB isn't even ranked. The only "rankings" are objective based leaderboards in FC, and FC isn't even arguably competitive since you litterally get high on the leaderboards simply by playing.

That you're unaware of fixed spraypatterns in csgo and call them rng shows me that you have no clue about the game. Same for APB claiming that the reticle accurately shows bloom without even mentioning the very limited distance to which it applies (after which bullets will not hit within the crosshair) and thus making your statement wrong most of the time.

 

What do you think the threatlevels are? They are APBs ranking system! You have to seriously stop taking every word literal. It's terrible.

And please, stop using whatever some wikipedia pages say as an argument , especially if you have issues comprehending what those words mean.

Look up FIFA, does it say it's a "competitive" game? To mention just one example.

 

There is no point having a discussion with you if you keep misusing/twisting words. It being intentionally or not.

 

1 hour ago, Rebelliousness said:

As for competitiveness... that isn't the issue and it doesn't require rocket science or years of experience. It means keeping the game as FAIR and BALANCED as possible... and minimizing the exploits... a stacked dethreated gold premade group with all the meta legendaries rolling the Bronze district daily is NOT... shooter competitiveness... it's exploitation out of control... and it's succeeding in eliminating the main (non-gold level) playerbase and ruining the experience of new guys who try the game out.

Anyone finagling a justification is without a doubt part of the problem, because it's literally unjustifiable... That isn't a "COMPETITIVE" game... that's a "GRIEFING" game... with the unrealistic expectation that the main playerbase simply plays and logs in to DIE repeatedly with no realistic chance of experiencing or enjoying the game as it was meant to be played.

Of course some dethreaters stomping newbies in bronze district isn't competitive. No one ever claimed that. What was the point of that scenario?

How is a group of people abusing the system supposed to change the general intention of a game?

To keep my comparisons in-line I will take an example from CSGO again. Having some smurfs stomp silvers isn't competitive either. Does that somehow change the games overall competitiveness?

Edited March 31, 2020 by TheJellyGoo

[Noob_Guardian 417]

On 3/31/2020 at 8:16 PM, TheJellyGoo said:

That you're unaware of fixed spraypatterns in csgo and call them rng shows me that you have no clue about the game. Same for APB claiming that the reticle accurately shows bloom without even mentioning the very limited distance to which it applies (after which bullets will not hit within the crosshair) and thus making your statement wrong most of the time.

 

What do you think the threatlevels are? They are APBs ranking system! You have to seriously stop taking every word literal. It's terrible.

And please, stop using whatever some wikipedia pages say as an argument , especially if you have issues comprehending what those words mean.

Look up FIFA, does it say it's a "competitive" game? To mention just one example.

 

There is no point having a discussion with you if you keep misusing/twisting words. It being intentionally or not.

 

Of course some dethreaters stomping newbies in bronze district isn't competitive. No one ever claimed that. What was the point of that scenario?

How is a group of people abusing the system supposed to change the general intention of a game?

To keep my comparisons in-line I will take an example from CSGO again. Having some smurfs stomp silvers isn't competitive either. Does that somehow change the games overall competitiveness?

 

CSGO spray patterns can be memorized as they are consistently the same and fire out of the reticule so its memory based, however one can set a macro up to full auto certain weapons accurately. It's the worst system for firing weapons i've ever seen in a game. But i guess it gives kiddies something to memorize instead of schoolwork. I call it RNG because it's a stupid patootie system.

 

APB Bullets fire in the reticule, though the reticule is accurate at 10m base for every weapon in the game. You'll never be in a situation where they fire "out" of the reticle if using a weapon properly, aside from shotguns. Even then its arguable to how bad out of reticle shots are because noone's really tested weapon ranges with it and displayed the results. Let me know when your shots stop being accurate when using weapons right past that "10m", with latency, server lag, etc not being the blame.

 

APB's threat levels have been irrelevant for at least 7 years. Your point?

 

I'm not the one calling a casual game competitive simply because it's a shooter. There's almost no basis to call APB competitive by any means, because there are no systems in place to support "competitive" apb. Overwatch has ranked for competitive, otherwise without competitive mode its literally trollwatch.

 

APB has no competitive scene, it has no leagues, no official rankings, no leaderboards (outside the objective based ones in fc which isn't really competitive at all). Overall APB is not a competitive shooter, its not a "competitive" game. Yes, you can play it "competitively" but that "win" doesn't matter, being gold hasn't mattered for years, and its not hard to attain. When you log? Change districts? Disconnect? That "win" meant nothing. APB isn't competitive at its core, while shooters do have some competition involved with them. "Competitive" APB and "Shooter APB" aren't interchangable because they aren't the same thing. Competitive APB doesn't exist.

 

Me saying check the wiki pages doesn't negate anything, I even said go to the main site. APB isn't a competitive shooter. It's a shooter, with no competitive scene. The only ones trying to make it "competitive" are a minority of players who want to feel better about wasting years on a dead game.

 

Merged.

 

On 3/31/2020 at 7:42 PM, iRawwwN said:

Oh wow, so by that logic Valorant isn't going to be a competitive game because it doesn't say it is? Listen, if two people are competing against each other to win a match there is some form of competition happening. These two players are trying to be better than the other. It doesn't matter if the only reward is basically to FLEX on the loser. The person who wins over and over will make a name for themselves, and will become renown on the game... even if it's only a 1k pop game.

 

It doesn't matter that he has PREVIOUSLY cheated, Flaws still knows the game. He's put enough hours into the game to know how to play, how to counter etc. He's still a high-ELO Gold.

 

Of course it's not competitive, they're clearly expoliting the games ELO mechanics and should be banned. Yet, if that same 4 man was in the correct district vs'ing players of equal skill then it'd be competitive. You need to step back from the computer, take a shower and clear your head. You are not getting ANY of the points that have been said in this thread.

Just because people are facing eachother and that involves some form of "competition" to win, doesn't make the game "competitive".

 

There are no leaderboards or systems in place for "competitive" clan wars, leaderboards, etc. Arguably, competition in APB doesn't matter at all, because being gold pretty much means nothing as well.

 

As I mentioned above. Shooter APB exists, "competitive" doesn't.

 

If you want more proof, look at all the weapon and vehicle rebalances, mod additions, etc. All of which has watered down what little "competitive" nature APB once had, if you can call 5 guns being usable competitive that is.

 

"competitive" APB like rankings, leaderboards, etc, dont exist and mean nothing, and there's no evidence that competitive APB will ever exist, because it doesn't likely wont for a long time (though they can add leaderboards and possibly clan stuff in a fc to accomodate it, for the last 7 years, there's been no such thing).

 

Having people able to interfere with your matches, isn't competitive, yet it happens all the time. APB is random AF and isn't competitive in nature. Competition, however will exist regardless.

Edited March 31, 2020 by Noob_Guardian

[shft 74]

23 hours ago, Noob_Guardian said:

Casual overwatch isn't competitive, Casual CSGO isn't competitive, Casual Siege isn't competitive.

Honestly, just stop right here, since APB has a threat system ranging from green to gold, which means the game is inherently competitive. Not sure why any of you are arguing and bringing up arguments like League of Legends having Leagues to determine rank when APB also used to have this and still does, just you can see it. All the threats still have ranks ranging from 1-10 however, since the overhaul G1 made back in the day it's no longer possible for you to see your EXACT rank, doesn't mean it's not there.

 

You also brought up that there is no evidence of APB is ever being competitive, which is also false since you just have to look at all the previous tournaments and arranged matches that has been played throughout the years. The game does actually have Leaderboard in the form of FC even if you don't want to acknowledge them as traditional since they're based on who played the most counter to who played the best.

Edited April 1, 2020 by shft

[vsb 6171]

TIL that the game that had leaderboards on day 1 of rtw isn’t meant to be competitive 

 

who knew?

[Haganu 104]

APB has many faces. It has the MMO face, it has the cops vs robbers face, it has the competitive face, it has the open world face (which would be great if this were actually true).

 

I don't know how the RTW days were, but having a leaderboard doesn't immediately mean your game is competitive. Casual MMOs with the majority of the content being PvE have leaderboards too, but since the leaderboards don't play a major role in the game it's not a competitive game. There's competition, but the game doesn't revolve around it.

 

First and foremost when you play this game, your main goal is to level up with contacts and unlock new stuff. The only thing that makes the line between MMO and competitive blurry is that you have to do missions, most of the time against other players, to level up. But leveling up the contacts is still the main goal when you start. Competition is the tool. Leveling up is the goal.

 

As I posted before: if unopposed missions were attractive to do, the majority of the new players wouldn't probably wait for opposition till a certain point.

I'm not talking about how players experience this game, but how I think the game is probably supposed to function.

 

Whether this game is competitive or not. I'm convinced that if LO focused more on the competitive aspect of APB, that the game would never really become a good game.

I think focusing on the competitive aspect of this game is a bad idea in the long run, especially when you have a dev team that wants everyone to be happy.

You simply can't please everyone. There will always be a party that loses.

[Fenton 210]

16 hours ago, Solamente said:

TIL that the game that had leaderboards on day 1 of RTW isn’t meant to be competitive. 

 

who knew?

Wait, we had leader-boards back then?

 

Makes sense, I suppose. The lore/fluff always tried to promote the idea that Crims and Enforcers had this odd cult of celebrity around them in San Paro.

 

That said, how many people can name a player and say "Oh that person is legitimately a very good player and well known" any more?

[UubeNubeh DaWog 136]

On 3/31/2020 at 12:52 PM, NotZombieBiscuit said:

I mean competitive in the way that it is a competition focused shooter in a format that promotes player/team accomplishment from its base mechanics. Like almost every shooter.

Every pvp game is a competition under that definition, Including tick tack toe. Under that definition you dont need anything more than the game already has to classify it as competitive.

We all know that's not what we're talking about when we do talk about "Actual" competition though.

Unbiased, balanced, skill matters above all.
APB is not that.

 

Edited April 2, 2020 by UubeNubeh DaWog

[vsb 6171]

1 hour ago, Haganu said:

APB has many faces. It has the MMO face, it has the cops vs robbers face, it has the competitive face, it has the open world face (which would be great if this were actually true).

 

I don't know how the RTW days were, but having a leaderboard doesn't immediately mean your game is competitive. Casual MMOs with the majority of the content being PvE have leaderboards too, but since the leaderboards don't play a major role in the game it's not a competitive game. There's competition, but the game doesn't revolve around it.

 

First and foremost when you play this game, your main goal is to level up with contacts and unlock new stuff. The only thing that makes the line between MMO and competitive blurry is that you have to do missions, most of the time against other players, to level up. But leveling up the contacts is still the main goal when you start. Competition is the tool. Leveling up is the goal.

 

As I posted before: if unopposed missions were attractive to do, the majority of the new players wouldn't probably wait for opposition till a certain point.

I'm not talking about how players experience this game, but how I think the game is probably supposed to function.

 

Whether this game is competitive or not. I'm convinced that if LO focused more on the competitive aspect of APB, that the game would never really become a good game.

I think focusing on the competitive aspect of this game is a bad idea in the long run, especially when you have a dev team that wants everyone to be happy.

You simply can't please everyone. There will always be a party that loses.

apb has one face, pvp

 

the mmo aspect exists to make pvp transitions seamless, the cops and robbers aspect exists to give pvp a reason, the open world aspect exists to funnel players into pvp, contacts and leaderboards exist to give players tangible rewards for participating in pvp

 

everything in apb is oriented around pvp: players compete to unlock better gear to compete against better players to unlock better gear etc, etc, etc

 

 

 

 

there seems to be a disconnect in this thread and the community at large, where competitive means catering to esport players who steamroll everyone and at the same time catering to players who want the easiest wins and will do anything to achieve them (including cheat), when in reality these are almost completely opposite groups

[Haganu 104]

32 minutes ago, Solamente said:

there seems to be a disconnect in this thread and the community at large, where competitive means catering to esport players who steamroll everyone and at the same time catering to players who want the easiest wins and will do anything to achieve them (including cheat), when in reality these are almost completely opposite groups

with all the rebalances and lack of actual content, i can't really blame them

if you look at this forum alone, an imo too significant share of its content goes to complaints about balance

it's not that it's wrong to ask or that the game is perfectly balanced, but instead of rebalances every other year it would've been better that the resources went to something that would positively impact the game on a longer term

 

there's been too much of a focus on the competitive aspect, and to this day it still hasn't gotten us anywhere

at the same time, the lack of content is probably due to the lack of an engine that allows a lot of content

i wonder if ue3.5 has a proper pipeline for new maps, contacts, cars, weapons, gamemodes, missions, mission types and cosmetics

 

when i think of competitive i think of strict set up matches between 2 teams with various objectives and locations to make pvp slightly variable, but still balanced in all aspects for the most part

i don't really think of catering to people stomping, ez wins or going all out for something insignificant

 

nonetheless i do think the community as a whole focuses on the competitive aspect too much

this game could be a lot more if it could balance competition and immersion

 

in the end, we'll see what happens after ue3.5

if they have good pipelines up to churn out minor and major content in a good pace and build this world up more, then we might just get ourselves an actually fun pvp game