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Kewlin

The Death of Legendaries and APB's Economy?

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7 minutes ago, Kewlin said:

They already stated that they're planning on reworking ARMAS pricing, and IMO JMBs are the least predatory lootboxes I know of, in that only thing you can't get from anything besides a JMB is the Fresno 4-slot.

Most of the items in those boxes are items that expire and are usually worthless.

Paladins loot boxes were the best I've seen as far as crappy RNG money-burners are concerned. No chance for duplicates, the items were permanent and were reasonably priced. APB's JMB's are a bad joke and just make people who aspire to own legendaries without working for them in-game incredibly salty when they don't 'win'.

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10 minutes ago, Kewlin said:

They already stated that they're planning on reworking ARMAS pricing, and IMO JMBs are the least predatory lootboxes I know of, in that only thing you can't get from anything besides a JMB is the Fresno 4-slot.

Most of the items in those boxes are items that expire and are usually worthless.

Paladins loot boxes were the best I've seen as far as crappy RNG money-burners are concerned. No chance for duplicates, the items were permanent and were reasonably priced. APB's JMB's are a bad joke and just make people who aspire to own legendaries without working for them in-game incredibly salty when they don't 'win'.

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Legendaries aren't Legendary just because they look pretty. Legendaries may not always give a direct advantage, but in a Rock-Paper-Scissor shooter, Legendaries introduce gameplay styles that can be far superior once learned. Where a "rock" type gun smashes a scissor type gun (in their intended cases, skill aside), a Legendary may be a rock that (in the right hands) can potentially tromp paper too, but still lose to another rock. It's not because the gun may be simply stat'd better, but using that certain gun unlocks methods to play the game that differs from their counterparts.

Placing items behind an un-tradeable paywall that introduce additional combat mechanics/gameplay styles will immediately shine yet another bad light on a game that is struggling to supposedly make a return/180. Any game that has attempted this has sunk in shame over time. It's an alienating thing to do in an F2P game- in any game. Lure in players with the notion that the skill floor is equally competitive, but unless you pay money in an otherwise free title- you may not be as flexibly competitive or have access to the same combat mechanics as the next player.

APB may never be E-Sports quality (and this would definitely put that nail in the coffin as others have stated), but you can't expect a shooter not to harbor a competitive environment. Competition needs balance- making Legendaries untradeable produces:

 

- A fraction of the community that is now segregated and plays on a different meta based on the power of their wallets

- A fraction of the community that is grandfathered in with a different meta based on their seniority, and in-game wallet. (Players are already scrambling to "collect em all" with the idea this may even be a possibility- which will drive up prices quickly)

- A crash of the in-game economy (whats left of it)

- An alienation of your F2P and Paid community alike

- The deconstruction of any semblance of a balanced, equal playing field that is the basis of all shooters

 

 Paywall items should never alter the PvP interaction. You wanna sell exclusive clothing pieces, symbols, music, etc: PLEASE DO THIS. Obtain a license for some good music that you can resell on ARMAS for people to play out their cars. There are a lot of ways to both make money and resolve this literal nonsense of law discrepancy with the JMB items. This is not the correct way to go about the issue, in any way, shape, or form for a shooter.

Edited by BuggedOut

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-Snip- Idk what I was talking about

Edited by Jukin
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18 minutes ago, BuggedOut said:

Legendaries aren't Legendary just because they look pretty. Legendaries may not always give a direct advantage, but in a Rock-Paper-Scissor shooter, Legendaries introduce gameplay styles that can be far superior once learned. Where a "rock" type gun smashes a scissor type gun (in their intended cases, skill aside), a Legendary may be a rock that (in the right hands) can potentially tromp paper too, but still lose to another rock. It's not because the gun may be simply stat'd better, but using that certain gun unlocks methods to play the game that differs from their counterparts.

I agree with the rest of your post, but honestly, beside the AAEPD most legendaries are. . . well, not great, you pretty much use them because they're fun. I've owned every non-scout legendary at one point or another, and the only one I ever really mained was the Anubis, but that got nerfed and is no longer a competitive gun.

 

20 minutes ago, BuggedOut said:

Obtain a license for some good music that you can resell on ARMAS for people to play out their cars.

Interesting idea, I'd honestly never thought of that one.

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1 minute ago, Kewlin said:

I agree with the rest of your post, but honestly, beside the AAEPD most legendaries are. . . well, not great, you pretty much use them because they're fun. I've owned every non-scout legendary at one point or another, and the only one I ever really mained was the Anubis, but that got nerfed and is no longer a competitive gun.

 

Interesting idea, I'd honestly never thought of that one.

yep, I can't think of any legendary I actually like using aside from ursus.

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9 minutes ago, Jukin said:

LMAO Already waking on the wrong side of bed LO, How funny, Make legendries untradeable, Rework pricing for JMB???? I BET. And Decrease the % on how often you when said legendary.SOUNDS LIKE A CRASH GRAB TO ME!!! LMFAO And theres a law? lmao if so I think we wouldn't have been able to do this for 7+ years. GL with your dying game. Calling it now

I don't recall anyone saying anything about decreasing the percent chance to gain legendaries from Joker boxes.

 

Also, everyone who seems to think there are no laws anywhere in relation to loot boxes, or "if there was a law then we wouldn't have been able to do this for the past 7+ years"...

The laws are fairly recent, and more countries are jumping on board, but they do indeed exist in various countries and some states in the US;

 

https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2018/04/dutch-government-rules-some-loot-boxes-count-as-illegal-gambling/

https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2018/04/video-game-loot-boxes-are-now-considered-criminal-gambling-in-belgium/

https://www.revisor.mn.gov/bills/text.php?number=HF4460&version=0&session=ls90&session_year=2018&session_number=0

https://www.polygon.com/2018/2/13/17007830/hawaii-loot-crate-laws-ea-star-wars-battlefront-2

 

 

As far as the APB economy being affected: a big part of the economy USED TO BE the trading of designs for cars, clothes, symbols, songs, etc... if anything, that market would just pick up a bit to fill the deficit left behind by the removal of legendaires from the market.

You heard it here, designers. Jack up your prices.

 

EDIT: My autocorrect decided that "legendaries" was actually "legionaries"... nice

Edited by Rapid99
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6 minutes ago, Kewlin said:

I agree with the rest of your post, but honestly, beside the AAEPD most legendaries are. . . well, not great, you pretty much use them because they're fun. I've owned every non-scout legendary at one point or another, and the only one I ever really mained was the Anubis, but that got nerfed and is no longer a competitive gun.

 

Interesting idea, I'd honestly never thought of that one.

Agreed, which is why I started out by saying they don't always give advantage. Its not the fact they are better, but different. It's like saying MLB players should be allowed to stray from wood bats, or use 6 finger gloves just because they make 20M/yr vs the MLB minimum (450k?). It may or may not be a practical change, but it does alter how that player will play the game vs the rest.

 

The AAEPD alone is reason enough to avoid all of this.

Edited by BuggedOut
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Thinking a few ideas in a rush, not going in a deep analysis thought, I think a few possibilities:

1) They could add themselves manually a small set of legendary weapons on sale in the ingame market place for anything above $3 or $4 millions on a weekly or monthly basis so they ensure there's a money sink system in place and still grant access to other players to buy OP or permanent weapons in game if they put enough effort to earn that cash.

 

2) They could let us trade these between players as a private trading? But I know this would allow an easy way to circumvent restrictions.

 

3) Nerf Legendary weapons and render them useless except for just a visual feature? (Nobody wants this, but let's be honest, how many of us still stick to Carbine, N-tec, Obeya/Obir and other stock and ARMAS guns besides holding a bunch of legendaries in our lockers?)

 

4) Drop JMBoxes as a rere Daily Activity and maybe through Joker Tickets too?

 

I don't know, I'm concerned for this as well since I stopped buying JMBoxes when I noticed I was falling into a bad gambling habit and also it was great to have a way to spend a couple of millions I was holding in something useful that also allowed us to share very valuable items with our closer friends and clannies.

Edit: Oh and not only AAEPD, there are permanent OPGLs too. I know these are weak af but still perma explosive weapons.

Edited by Salvick
Adding info.

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Maybe Make some JMB With both G1C & APB$ and some exclusive for Only Apb$ and same goes for the G1C JMB or maybe we can make more items that can be bought through auctions like 4x4 for example someone obtain it for 10K JKT then sell it for example for APB$ and some of the Armas exclusive Clothing also to be sold with apb$

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What if they introduce something like tokens to combat this, similarly how The Division deals with the gambling vendor? You get keys by playing, albeit very slowly. One could use these tokens to buy Joker boxes, thus have a chance to actually get the same equipment by playing a ton. Maybe even allow the use of the in-game currency to buy those tokens?

Alternatively, change legendaries so that they do not differ by stats but by look or other factors like customized kill weapon image, customizable name etc. Something to keep the prestige factor to get people to still buy them which might be a hard task. I agree with you though, it can't go the way he mentioned without changes to the gear or the system.

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1 hour ago, Puffdragon said:

Is it the gambling thing?

Yes.

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1 minute ago, trismatic said:

What if they introduce something like tokens to combat this, similarly how The Division deals with the gambling vendor? You get keys by playing, albeit very slowly. One could use these tokens to buy Joker boxes, thus have a chance to actually get the same equipment by playing a ton. Maybe even allow the use of the in-game currency to buy those tokens?

Alternatively, change legendaries so that they do not differ by stats but by look or other factors like customized kill weapon image, customizable name etc. Something to keep the prestige factor to get people to still buy them which might be a hard task. I agree with you though, it can't go the way he mentioned without changes to the gear or the system.

Make the mods currently accessible only by Legendary use accessible on vendors.

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Just now, BuggedOut said:

Make the mods currently accessible only by Legendary use accessible on vendors.

I'd love to see "chambered round" becoming a feature on magazine-fed weapons instead of being a mod on a legandary weapon. Because realism and gun-autism. That said, it would lead to a quite sizeable amount of weapons either needing rebalancing or changes to time it takes to replace a mag, and thus being a real pain in the butt which is why I think no such thing will ever happen... Not at least in the near future.

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5 minutes ago, Chinook said:

Yes.

I see, well wouldn't offering free daily joker boxes solve that issue since then they would technically be free?

I guess we aren't lawyers, LO will figure it out I'm sure.

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3 hours ago, Kewlin said:

Agreed, there has to be something better. I don't honestly see much of a point in having legendaries as opposed to normal ARMAS guns if they aren't tradeable.

This. There's no point in boxes if ARMAS just sells guns like the Vulture/Hawk/Scout Snipers anyways.

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3 hours ago, Kewlin said:

If it was up to me there would be something along the lines of putting legendaries (tradeable or not) as high price Joker Store items, but I understand that this probable won't happen due to the hit it would cause to JMB sales. Alongside this, I'd keep old legendaries tradeable for the time being.

Perhaps a way to keep JMB sales relevant would be making legendaries from JMBs account bound? But I dunno'.

legendaries are already account bound using the mail system. 

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2 hours ago, Shimmer said:

The fact that they were tradeable, and obtainable in game kept them from really being pay 2 win.  Now it really WILL be pay 2 win as you wont be able to get them on the auction. 

Will make it seem P2W*, but won't actually be P2W in reality. Legendary guns aren't much of an improvement compared to regular ones.

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here's the thing pubg does and I think apb can learn a thing or two from it.

some boxes are free to open and are earned through in-game currency, items dropped from those are immediately tradable on steam community market, however, there are some boxes that require you to purchase a key for 2.5$, items dropped from those boxes are not tradable for 1 week. After the mentioned duration, you are allowed to trade it. 

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6 minutes ago, Pedroxin said:

here's the thing pubg does and I think apb can learn a thing or two from it.

some boxes are free to open and are earned through in-game currency, items dropped from those are immediately tradable on steam community market, however, there are some boxes that require you to purchase a key for 2.5$, items dropped from those boxes are not tradable for 1 week. After the mentioned duration, you are allowed to trade it. 

so like JMBs but more steps

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The free drops might be an interesting idea though

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1 minute ago, Nevv said:

so like JMBs but more steps

not exactly, there's no way to earn jmbs through in-game currency and opening them does not require payment. 

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