Community Discussion Topics

[InstantBreeze 2]

 

On 10/17/2018 at 12:05 AM, Seedy said:

dont worry about the haters.. they will try to bring down anything that is doing well enough. I think your doing well.

 

Why isn't Little Orbit listen to me? / Why is Little Orbit listening to people that don't know what they are talking about?

Most people have no clue how to make games. They complain about physics, matchmaking and so on yet they have never debugged a single line of code or actually considered the maths behind such systems. Until they even have the simplest understanding of these things they need to just keep out of it. Their opinions just bread hatred for the people making the games from more people who have no clue. Everyone is a critic yet 99.99999% of people are faceless blowhards with no clue. Please critic, take your self out of your mothers basement and look up at the sky. There is someone out their who maybe will even like you. You dont have to be critical of every single thing. Little Orbit are doing well. I have faith in them.

On 10/17/2018 at 1:20 AM, asence said:

 

Totally agree with that.

 

For Real, Everyone thinks they know what would be best for the game, I would just say let LO make the game how they want in their eyes but not changing it too much from his core Because no matter what they do, there will be someone getting triggered about it or it will cause another loophole or big change in the APB meta.

[Hexerin 1140]

9 hours ago, CookiePuss said:

Wait, you actually know who this guy is?

Yes...? It would take quite a bit to not know who he is as a Jericho player. Well, assuming you've been around longer than a couple years. It seems like he's calmed down since back in the day, have seen him around but haven't seen him up to his old behaviour.

[CookiePuss 5378]

1 hour ago, Hexerin said:

Yes...? It would take quite a bit to not know who he is as a Jericho player. Well, assuming you've been around longer than a couple years. It seems like he's calmed down since back in the day, have seen him around but haven't seen him up to his old behaviour.

Just under 5 years here.

First Ive heard of him.

Bronze district hero I guess?

[Spooki3 5]

Mid November is just around the corner and will mark the 2nd month of silence concerning console development other than the obvious that nothing is happening anytime soon. I am hoping for the sake of everyone that UE 3.5 is being optimized meanwhile the sdk's been forgotten. Because if there isnt any work being done parallel with it i'll say that the PC engine upgrade is atleast 3 months behind schedule with the current pace it seems you are working on it. IF nothing is gonna happen this year at the very least tell us so that we can move on to do better things with our time.

 

Give us a pity sale at the very least for lasting this long with hope for a playable game.

[CookiePuss 5378]

43 minutes ago, Spooki3 said:

Mid November is just around the corner and will mark the 2nd month of silence concerning console development other than the obvious that nothing is happening anytime soon. I am hoping for the sake of everyone that UE 3.5 is being optimized meanwhile the sdk's been forgotten. Because if there isnt any work being done parallel with it i'll say that the PC engine upgrade is atleast 3 months behind schedule with the current pace it seems you are working on it. IF nothing is gonna happen this year at the very least tell us so that we can move on to do better things with our time.

 

Give us a pity sale at the very least for lasting this long with hope for a playable game.

Welcome to APB.

[Spooki3 5]

14 hours ago, CookiePuss said:

Welcome to APB.

Thx! This game is great for those who are into neglect-play.

[CookiePuss 5378]

37 minutes ago, Spooki3 said:

Thx! This game is great for those who are into neglect-play.

Ngl... I giggled like a madman when I read this. 

You are gonna fit right in!

[Haganu 104]

On 10/30/2018 at 12:02 AM, InstantBreeze said:

For Real, Everyone thinks they know what would be best for the game, I would just say let LO make the game how they want in their eyes but not changing it too much from his core Because no matter what they do, there will be someone getting triggered about it or it will cause another loophole or big change in the APB meta.

APB's gameplay and meta are absolutely atrocious as they are currently. The only reason I'd say don't change things too much (yet) is because the playerbase is so small that moderate to substantial changes in meta/balance/gameplay will cause more people to leave while the game doesn't really gain people.

 

APB already changed from its core into what we have now, and will only deviate more from RTW's vision when Unreal 3.5 releases, unless the lead producer, designer and artists are the same as RTW had.

RTW had a lot of concepts (cover system, heavy artillery, et cetera) on the table and didn't have time to realize them (or they got canned in the end), Reloaded did nothing with those concepts and instead shortened TTK, introduced unnecessary curve mechanics further disturbing weapon balance, et cetera.

 

APB Vendetta had interesting concepts too, although I don't know if RTW had those in mind back in the day, but APB Vendetta turned into well, you know it, nothing. lol

 

The so called "core" of APB you're talking about is nothing but an abomination everyone got used to as the years of literal zero significant development passed by.

 

As such, Little Orbit should do what they think is right for the game. Judging by how ARMAS pricing on weapons and bundles is still preposterous and there's still no sign nor answer on things like Account Wide distribution/availability, I sincerely hope Little Orbit's vision doesn't end up the same as Reloaded's.

Edited November 6, 2018 by Haganu

[Queen of Love 453]

what about restore classic weapon sys, old kick team sys and add new true content?

[CookiePuss 5378]

1 hour ago, Queen of Love said:

what about restore classic weapon sys, old kick team sys and add new true content?

Dont forget horses and motorcycles. 

[AsgerLund 1271]

24 minutes ago, CookiePuss said:

Dont forget horses and motorcycles. 

And caravans.

[Queen of Love 453]

Warframe= community asked for Hoverboard or something similar: 3 months later there are Hoverboard and an entire new map for use it.

APB= community asked for motorbike in 2010. Still waiting plus a good amount of toxicity around any new real suggestion and innovative idea.

 

gg.

[mtz 496]

6 minutes ago, Queen of Love said:

Warframe= community asked for Hoverboard or something similar: 3 months later there are Hoverboard and an entire new map for use it.

APB= community asked for motorbike in 2010. Still waiting plus a good amount of toxicity around any new real suggestion and innovative idea.

Fortuna was not developed with the sole intent of giving the players access to a hoverboard mechanic. It's a part of it, but not the cornerstone.

Motorcycles do not fit in the flow of APB. I myself am guilty of having supported the idea of adding motorcycles in the past, but upon further consideration I can't say I agree anymore. Choosing a motorcycle as a personal vehicle would put the player at a disadvantage. You give yourself a vehicle that's essentially too short to provide cover, has too little health to withstand any real damage, causes you to be exposed to gunfire (like you were on foot) except you cannot shoot back, cannot carry any baggage (and I imagine it could not work as a mobile spawner)... so why even have it as an option?

 

False equivalency of the "weight" of features, try again.

[mtz 496]

Also, to drive the point home, I've actually talked to a friend of mine (who's an avid Warframe fan with ~1500 hours in the game) about the validity of the statement about hoverboards in Warframe. You literally couldn't have been any further away from the truth. The community's requests for vehicles - not just hoverboards, but any vehicles at all - date back to the first Developer Streams. The first mentions of such requests appeared on Devstream #3 (proof); the streams happen every two weeks and right now they're on Devstream #118. According to Rebecca, DE's community manager/producer, Devstream #1 happened in November of 2012. The game itself left Closed Beta in March 25th, 2013. You do the math.

Additionally, hoverboards (or K-Drives) aren't the first vehicles to be added to Warframe, being preceded by Archwings (enabling 6DoF gameplay in space and underwater areas) and Dargyns (flying skiffs in the Plains of Eidolon open-world area).

 

Claiming that Digital Extremes have instantaneously jumped to creating the Fortuna update with the intent of introducing hoverboards, and a whole new open-world location to use them in, is a straight up lie. Please at least TRY to find something that isn't easily debunked next time you'll try to trashtalk Little Orbit for perceived underperformance.

Edited November 10, 2018 by MartinPL

[vsb 6171]

bruh chill hes already dead 

[mtz 496]

3 minutes ago, BXNNXD said:

bruh chill hes already dead 

I'd rather not leave any room for doubt.

[GhosT 1301]

2 hours ago, Queen of Love said:

Warframe= community asked for Hoverboard or something similar: 3 months later there are Hoverboard and an entire new map for use it.

APB= community asked for motorbike in 2010. Still waiting plus a good amount of toxicity around any new real suggestion and innovative idea.

 

gg

 

Are you dense?

 

We certainly don't need motorcycles in APB.

[LilyRain 674]

4 hours ago, MartinPL said:

Fortuna was not developed with the sole intent of giving the players access to a hoverboard mechanic. It's a part of it, but not the cornerstone.

Motorcycles do not fit in the flow of APB. I myself am guilty of having supported the idea of adding motorcycles in the past, but upon further consideration I can't say I agree anymore. Choosing a motorcycle as a personal vehicle would put the player at a disadvantage. You give yourself a vehicle that's essentially too short to provide cover, has too little health to withstand any real damage, causes you to be exposed to gunfire (like you were on foot) except you cannot shoot back, cannot carry any baggage (and I imagine it could not work as a mobile spawner)... so why even have it as an option?

 

False equivalency of the "weight" of features, try again.

 

1 hour ago, GhosT said:

We certainly don't need motorcycles in APB.

 

This is exactly why nothing new gets added to the game..  for a decade, because more stuff are "not needed". Because more features won't add variety nor fun..

 

Although I agree that motorbikes are not needed AT ALL, that doesn't mean they would serve 0% purpose. We also do not need the fragile-mod for instance, but I personally enjoy it and the small speed-gain from it made my team win some matches in the nick of time.

 

It is true and reasonable that bikes can not provide the protection of a car/van/truck, but they can accelerate faster, navigate through ever tighter spaces compared to the Packer Vaquero. Players can not shoot back? Perhaps not with the primary-weapon but surely they should be allowed to shoot with a pistol at least.. bikes can not carry bags or barrels, heck even my Devil Dog's Cisco can't but players themselves could carry necklaces and boxes... There are also those who would spend time customizing the appearance of their bikes for the purpose of taking pictures and overall, make APB look more alive (this could help bump up the player-base btw, perhaps not by much but it could). There are always two sides to the same coin. All the negatives mentioned have adjacent risk-to-reward counterparts that could prove useful in some matches as well as add variety to vehicles and.. fun..

 

I understand that at the present moment, it may not be possible to add bikes due to the fact that all vehicles protect players within, so perhaps later in the future if we ever get lucky to see regular and bullet-proof window-mechanics added (and it was this way for years). However, the argument of "not needed" is too bland and not valid at all. APB isn't just about having the best methods to win a match and shouldn't be viewed as such. It is well-known that APB's selling point is its customization and freedom. Do not constraint Players to play the game in the easiest/cheapest ways possible to win.

[Kewlin 692]

46 minutes ago, Lily Rain said:

This is exactly why nothing new gets added to the game..  for a decade, because more stuff are "not needed". Because more features won't add variety nor fun..

 

Please don't say nothing's ever been added to APB: it's just wrong and makes you look silly.

[mtz 496]

5 hours ago, Lily Rain said:

 

 

This is exactly why nothing new gets added to the game..  for a decade, because more stuff are "not needed". Because more features won't add variety nor fun..

 

Although I agree that motorbikes are not needed AT ALL, that doesn't mean they would serve 0% purpose. We also do not need the fragile-mod for instance, but I personally enjoy it and the small speed-gain from it made my team win some matches in the nick of time.

 

It is true and reasonable that bikes can not provide the protection of a car/van/truck, but they can accelerate faster, navigate through ever tighter spaces compared to the Packer Vaquero. Players can not shoot back? Perhaps not with the primary-weapon but surely they should be allowed to shoot with a pistol at least.. bikes can not carry bags or barrels, heck even my Devil Dog's Cisco can't but players themselves could carry necklaces and boxes... There are also those who would spend time customizing the appearance of their bikes for the purpose of taking pictures and overall, make APB look more alive (this could help bump up the player-base btw, perhaps not by much but it could). There are always two sides to the same coin. All the negatives mentioned have adjacent risk-to-reward counterparts that could prove useful in some matches as well as add variety to vehicles and.. fun..

 

I understand that at the present moment, it may not be possible to add bikes due to the fact that all vehicles protect players within, so perhaps later in the future if we ever get lucky to see regular and bullet-proof window-mechanics added (and it was this way for years). However, the argument of "not needed" is too bland and not valid at all. APB isn't just about having the best methods to win a match and shouldn't be viewed as such. It is well-known that APB's selling point is its customization and freedom. Do not constraint Players to play the game in the easiest/cheapest ways possible to win.

I honestly appreciate your argumentation, however there are some things I still disagree about - the most egregious one being the purpose of motorbikes. Even taking into consideration the positive aspects of motorbikes (navigation of spaces such as doorways and car blockers in front of stairs, high acceleration), I frankly can't imagine them as anything but obsolete when compared to cars.

With many missions in the game forcing you to carry items to your base, picking a vehicle with absolutely no cargo capacity is an active detriment to your entire team's efforts. Arguably you could work around it with Creme De La Crime's items by letting them be held in one hand (although even that would be an active risk to the driver, seeing as one hand less is controlling the bike), what about Chemical Warfare, where the final item is a Sarin-filled barrel? If anything, your team will hate you for not having a useful vehicle for that situation.

 

Not to mention that you'd be pretty much exposing yourself to almost instant death if you somehow end up hitting a wall head-first or fall off at a high speed. And getting forced into this kind of an altercation by, for example, enemy cars pushing you around and making you spin out, isn't hard. You could argue that APB doesn't need to be realistic because there's already a bunch of unrealistic game mechanics in the game, but I think that there are some things and "rules" that should be kept natural and realistic, to avoid subversion of expectations.

 

Motorbikes' only purpose in the metagame would be getting from point A to point B at any cost and regardless of risks taken to get there. They don't exactly fit anywhere and don't belong as anything other than a thought experiment, a "what if this was a thing" hypothetical situation.

 

I would absolutely love to see more new content (the Showstopper was a good start), but this just ain't it. We really don't need motorbikes.

[Szambi 85]

Imagine a motorcycle gettin' pushed by a vegas (for example) into a wall...

[SK4LP 62]

"motorcycle"  

i want a 4 mod green planet truck !!!

[LilyRain 674]

8 hours ago, MartinPL said:

I honestly appreciate your argumentation, however there are some things I still disagree about - the most egregious one being the purpose of motorbikes. Even taking into consideration the positive aspects of motorbikes (navigation of spaces such as doorways and car blockers in front of stairs, high acceleration), I frankly can't imagine them as anything but obsolete when compared to cars.

"Obsolete" pertains to something that is too old, outdated, replaced by something new... Being different in seat-capacity, number of tires, total volume, etc doesn't make bikes obsolete.. Both cars and bikes currently use the same technology. If one of them goes 'obsolete', so does the other. Perhaps when Nuclear-Vehicles become the norm you could call them obsolete.

8 hours ago, MartinPL said:

With many missions in the game forcing you to carry items to your base, picking a vehicle with absolutely no cargo capacity is an active detriment to your entire team's efforts. Arguably you could work around it with Creme De La Crime's items by letting them be held in one hand (although even that would be an active risk to the driver, seeing as one hand less is controlling the bike), what about Chemical Warfare, where the final item is a Sarin-filled barrel? If anything, your team will hate you for not having a useful vehicle for that situation.

I have already told you, not all cars have cargo capacity to begin with. Additionally, not all missions contain heavy barrels, computers, etc to carry. APB requires players to be dynamic. In the same manner that you can switch to a close-ranged to counter a PMG-Pleb, you can also switch vehicles if needed. Simply go to a vending machine or a car spawner, press i and select a vehicle that fills the current mission's need. Additionally, not everyone would have bikes as active vehicles, since there are people like you who prefers to drive cars 100% of the time. IF the entire team is full of Cyclists, they can not hate you for doing the same thing you are doing.... Do you honestly worry about a game that has haters everywhere? They should learn to carry their own weight first. Heck, an entire team of Cyclists won't have to change vehicles anyway, Civilian cars are abundant if your team is too lazy to switch.

 

8 hours ago, MartinPL said:

Not to mention that you'd be pretty much exposing yourself to almost instant death if you somehow end up hitting a wall head-first or fall off at a high speed. And getting forced into this kind of an altercation by, for example, enemy cars pushing you around and making you spin out, isn't hard. You could argue that APB doesn't need to be realistic because there's already a bunch of unrealistic game mechanics in the game, but I think that there are some things and "rules" that should be kept natural and realistic, to avoid subversion of expectations.

No shaming intended but please do learn how to drive the starter Machina before anything else.. Your argument is clearly applicable to either Bronze Players or those whom are yet to get accustomed to latency-driving.

 

8 hours ago, MartinPL said:

Motorbikes' only purpose in the metagame would be getting from point A to point B at any cost and regardless of risks taken to get there. They don't exactly fit anywhere and don't belong as anything other than a thought experiment, a "what if this was a thing" hypothetical situation.

You did not substantiate your claim. All you are saying here is 'no to bikes'..

 

8 hours ago, MartinPL said:

I would absolutely love to see more new content (the Showstopper was a good start), but this just ain't it. We really don't need motorbikes.

Repeating "we really don't need motorbikes" doesn't add to the table, I already know what your stance is towards them.

 

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6 hours ago, Szambi said:

Imagine a motorcycle gettin' pushed by a vegas (for example) into a wall...

» If the collision is head-on, the biker COULD wheelie at the right moment. If the Vegas has nitrous and does the wheele as well, tough luck.

» If the Vegas hits the bike from its side, the Vegas will bank the bike sideways and mow over it. Physics just doesn't work like that, unless Devs re-shape a car into a bike with a massive invisible hitbox, that would look unfinished and terrible.

 

It won't push the bike into a wall unless the bike is already there by the wall asking to get rammed.

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40 minutes ago, SK4LP said:

"motorcycle"  

i want a 4 mod green planet truck !!!

lol, if so, make it cost $10,000 or something to spawn instead of $100. Else Griefers would abuse it

[mtz 496]

1 hour ago, Lily Rain said:

"Obsolete" pertains to something that is too old, outdated, replaced by something new... Being different in seat-capacity, number of tires, total volume, etc doesn't make bikes obsolete.. Both cars and bikes currently use the same technology. If one of them goes 'obsolete', so does the other. Perhaps when Nuclear-Vehicles become the norm you could call them obsolete.

Getting into semantics, huh? The issue is still that the upsides of motorbikes are offset in quantity by their downsides. The cars already do most things the bikes do, but better.

1 hour ago, Lily Rain said:

I have already told you, not all cars have cargo capacity to begin with. Additionally, not all missions contain heavy barrels, computers, etc to carry. APB requires players to be dynamic. In the same manner that you can switch to a close-ranged to counter a PMG-Pleb, you can also switch vehicles if needed. Simply go to a vending machine or a car spawner, press i and select a vehicle that fills the current mission's need. Additionally, not everyone would have bikes as active vehicles, since there are people like you who prefers to drive cars 100% of the time. IF the entire team is full of Cyclists, they can not hate you for doing the same thing you are doing.... Do you honestly worry about a game that has haters everywhere? They should learn to carry their own weight first. Heck, an entire team of Cyclists won't have to change vehicles anyway, Civilian cars are abundant if your team is too lazy to switch.

And hypothetical situations. Sure, let's play that too.

Not all cars have cargo capacity - and this is why the meta consists of Pioneer, Espacio, Vegas 4x4 (and slightly less so Jericho and Bishada). If I need cargo capacity or a mobile wall, I can switch to a Pioneer. If I need speed, I can switch to a Vegas. And I could switch to a bike... if I wanted to get spun out and killed by any car at all that rams into me?

Plus, civilian vehicles do not offer any modification capabilities. And the lack of a Mobile Spawn Point or a Mobile Radar Tower really starts to hurt the longer you're in the mission.

1 hour ago, Lily Rain said:

No shaming intended but please do learn how to drive the starter Machina before anything else.. Your argument is clearly applicable to either Bronze Players or those whom are yet to get accustomed to latency-driving.

Honestly thought I could have a civil conversation here, but oh well - apparently any kind of disagreement with someone else on this forum is interpreted as a direct attack that also requires an ad personam response. Sure, two can play that game.

This point in particular had nothing to do with one's driving skills. It's a fact that motorcycles are lighter and less durable than cars. Getting hit by a car while you're on a bike will either toss you off, make you lose control, or outright smash you to pieces.

1 hour ago, Lily Rain said:

You did not substantiate your claim. All you are saying here is 'no to bikes'..

Except the claim was substantiated. Their low healthpool, small physical size and practically nonexistant cargo capacity make them only good for player transportation and no other role. You would have known that if you had actually read my post in its entirety and considered my stance instead of trying to pick for things you could misconstrue.

1 hour ago, Lily Rain said:

» If the Vegas hits the bike from its side, the Vegas will bank the bike sideways and mow over it. Physics just doesn't work like that, unless Devs re-shape a car into a bike with a massive invisible hitbox, that would look unfinished and terrible.

 

It won't push the bike into a wall unless the bike is already there by the wall asking to get rammed.

Though this part wasn't aimed towards me, I still want to add something here.

Currently, the highest top speed in APB is limited by the engine (see: the fastest car, Vegas G20, is only so fast that it lets the map load in as it moves), which means that if motorcycles were to be added in the current state of things, they would still be on par with the high-end cars, speed-wise.

 

If the Engine Upgrade will allow for higher top speeds, then perhaps motorcycles would be a fun little experiment. The worst that could happen is that they end up not being used by anyone due to their shortcomings.

[LilyRain 674]

40 minutes ago, MartinPL said:

Getting into semantics, huh?

Of course, since you don't seem to know the meaning behind the vocabulary you are using..

40 minutes ago, MartinPL said:

The issue is still that the upsides of motorbikes are offset in quantity by their downsides. The cars already do most things the bikes do, but better.

The issue is adding more choices and life to the game, even if it means handicapped-gameplay or limiting it to showing off designs (it has already been done to some mods and weapons people perceive as sub-par to meta). Again, I have already told you to refrain from limiting APB to the best possible ways to win a match. You may only run around with the most dominant loadouts if you so wish. Nobody is stopping you regardless..

 

40 minutes ago, MartinPL said:

And hypothetical situations. Sure, let's play that too.

It intrigues me that you actually said that, considering that your arguments were all based on your own shortcomings in situational awareness and lack of basic driving skills..

 

40 minutes ago, MartinPL said:

Not all cars have cargo capacity - and this is why the meta consists of Pioneer, Espacio, Vegas 4x4 (and slightly less so Jericho and Bishada). If I need cargo capacity or a mobile wall, I can switch to a Pioneer. If I need speed, I can switch to a Vegas. And I could switch to a bike... if I wanted to get spun out and killed by any car at all that rams into me?

The meta is the meta, but once again, Players DO STILL drive other vehicles such as the previously mentioned Packer Vaquero. Simply because they WOULD LIKE TO DO SO. If you are a meta-Player who simply refrains from variety, that is your own thing.. Plus, nobody is forcing you to play with things that puts you at a disadvantage. If you can't handle the heat, you are more than welcome to stick to your beloved meta.

 

41 minutes ago, MartinPL said:

And the lack of a Mobile Spawn Point or a Mobile Radar Tower really starts to hurt the longer you're in the mission.

1 » You are assuming that not a single player in the team has a car with a mobile spawner..

2 » As I have already told you, APB allows for changes to be made mid-mission. Please refrain from trying to push a false argument forward. For someone such as yourself who appears to be the King of meta, I do not honestly believe that you are incapable of switching stuff on the fly....

 

45 minutes ago, MartinPL said:

Honestly thought I could have a civil conversation here, but oh well - apparently any kind of disagreement with someone else on this forum is interpreted as a direct attack that also requires an ad personam response. Sure, two can play that game.

Proper, constructive disagreement is the way to go. Using arguments that portray your own laziness and shortcomings as a player, in addition to a harsh tone & vocabulary that you do not understand half of is not.. Perhaps revise yourself before taking it out on others.

 

48 minutes ago, MartinPL said:

This point in particular had nothing to do with one's driving skills. It's a fact that motorcycles are lighter and less durable than cars. Getting hit by a car while you're on a bike will either toss you off, make you lose control, or outright smash you to pieces.

No... just no.. You have clearly said and I quote: "Not to mention that you'd be pretty much exposing yourself to almost instant death if you somehow end up hitting a wall head-first or fall off at a high speed"... This has nothing to do with one's driving skills, hmmm? Okay...…………..

 

51 minutes ago, MartinPL said:

Except the claim was substantiated. Their low healthpool, small physical size and practically nonexistant cargo capacity make them only good for player transportation and no other role. You would have known that if you had actually read my post in its entirety and considered my stance instead of trying to pick for things you could misconstrue.

You are advising me to read and consider your stance when you don't read yourself nor considered mine's, Sir... I have clearly stated and I quote from myself: "APB isn't just about having the best methods to win a match and shouldn't be viewed as such. It is well-known that APB's selling point is its customization and freedom. Do not constraint Players to play the game in the easiest/cheapest ways possible to win".

 

Please…. read before you act...

 

57 minutes ago, MartinPL said:

Currently, the highest top speed in APB is limited by the engine (see: the fastest car, Vegas G20, is only so fast that it lets the map load in as it moves), which means that if motorcycles were to be added in the current state of things, they would still be on par with the high-end cars, speed-wise.

 

If the Engine Upgrade will allow for higher top speeds, then perhaps motorcycles would be a fun little experiment. The worst that could happen is that they end up not being used by anyone due to their shortcomings.

If you actually read yourself, you'd see that my argument was about acceleration and navigation that rivals small cars.. I did not speak about top speed.. You'd also have known that I don't care about your beloved meta..

----------------------------------------------------

If you wish to have a fruitful yet civil discussion, I encourage you to work towards it starting from yourself..