Asking Little Orbit to clarify an uniform question.

[ok 419]

Just now, DarkRider400 said:

Im sorry, are you blind or stupid, or both?

Nowhere have I mentioned that the nazi symbol affects my emotions. I don't care about it in the least.

My concern is that the whole topic is useless dribble, and that if the question seriously has to be asked, then why bother doing it in the first place for a specific audience that consists of MAYBE 50 people who have hard-ons for WW2 junk in APB.

Your "concerns" could very well go in the trash bin, since nobody asked for it

This topic breaks no forum rules, so you have no argument against it

Your opinion, again, has no value, there are people interested in ww2-related stuff, so you can bugger off and let us discuss it freely

[Alani 475]

1 minute ago, AbuMohammad said:

For me a purpose of making new outfits is a possibility to get new customers and to try making something more complicated. Moreover, i like the creation process

 

Do not use any 'offensive' emblems or the banned emblems and you should be fine.

 

But I would refrain from doing anything such as the German Secret police uniforms until someone actually answers this thread instead of crying about their feelings on the topic as a whole.

[AbuMohammad 104]

Just now, Obvious Lesbian said:

 

Do not use any 'offensive' emblems or the banned emblems and you should be fine.

 

But I would refrain from doing anything such as the German Secret police uniforms until someone actually answers this thread instead of crying about their feelings on the topic as a whole.

That's what I've done during several years of gamersfirst and innova. The problem is that offense is too complicated thing. In old times my skyrim outfit offended a guy, who hates everything medieval. But, the game owner policy is necessary to know in such cases

[YumaKirosaki 32]

The idea that there is "no point" to wearing a historical costume is so asinine. Yeah, there's "no point" to dressing up your character as literally anything. APB is a game about customization at its core - if this guy wants to make historically accurate uniforms, then all the power to him! Between the millions of "Supreme" logos, scantily clad women, and cosplays of popular game characters, I'd honestly say this sort of creativity should be welcomed. You're not inherently a douche for wanting to create that sort of thing. That's such a juvenile way of looking at shit.

Personally, I think the outfit (at the very least with the star cross alternative) should be allowed, assuming you're not spraying the swastika or a gigantic "HITLER DID NOTHING WRONG" around San Paro. Or some other ridiculous baiting symbol. Although honestly, I'd personally be fine with anything -- I'd like to think we're all adults here and can outline the clear difference between fantasy and real life. 

Edited May 28, 2018 by YumaKirosaki

[Ritual 629]

Alright, I've read a bit through this thread and decided to give my two cents to it.

 

All of you guys make some really good points, so let's see what we can make of it...

 

First of all, when it comes to why making something in this game. Why make military faction uniforms? I don't know. Some people really like the looks of it. Why does someone else make an anime character, etc.? Pretty much the same reason. Creativity is the key and it is one of the reasons people still enjoy it. Creativity should not be limited because of different tastes.

 

Now, with that in mind, let's discuss the sensitive content issue. Yes, hatred symbols are strictly forbidden, but a certain design of a uniform should not be an issue. Plenty of other things non-related to military that tick people as it is. So that means, while you may not use the exact same insignia on your design, colour scheme of the uniform, shape and such (and I see nothing wrong with you Soviet one you placed as an example) is not a problem. 

 

Personally, I would suggest you to perhaps look up the Wolfenstein censorship, and see if their way of doing it will inspire you to create what you will without any sensitive material. Of course, as you said, details there are much different that details in APB, but nevertheless, it is a good example. Good luck!

 

EDIT: I am referring to the German edition of Wolfenstein 

[DarkRider400 3]

So you're justifying nazi uniforms by "creative freedom"?

 

So it's creative freedom if someone designs the swastika and SS symbols in the Designer?

 

Or maybe when they're wearing said uniform and spewing hate speech through VOIP where there's no record of it unless some lucky person manages to catch it on recording when theyre not busy playing the game? 

 

It opens avenues that shouldn't be opened. The hard-on you all seem to be getting from "discussing" (even though none of you have actually discussed anything), is that you'd like to wear nazi uniforms "for RP".

 

It doesn't matter than it's a game, the outfit itself is an enabler for those with unacceptable behavior and tendencies to say things that shouldn't be said.

 

Tell me, what country's outfit sells the most? I doubt it's Russia's. And it seems like most would rather wear modern USA military clothing than WW2-style. Willing to bet very few people actually care for French/British/Japanese/etc WW2 clothing, which leaves Germany as the last major country. Can't imagine why that is.

Edited May 28, 2018 by DarkRider400

[AbuMohammad 104]

Ok, thank you for your reply. As a moderator, I think your position can actually be seen as official. I will make something german today (fast preview version) and post it here for discussion.

[MrChan 337]

18 minutes ago, DarkRider400 said:

Tell me, what country's outfit sells the most? I doubt it's Russia's. And it seems like most would rather wear modern USA military clothing than WW2-style. Willing to bet very few people actually care for French/British/Japanese/etc WW2 clothing, which leaves Germany as the last major country. Can't imagine why that is.

Because some people are so obsessed with "triggering the libs" that they'd probably fork their own eyeballs out and set them on fire if they thought it would offend one of those SJWs.

 

This isn't meant as a dig at the OP, btw, since he appears to be doing them as an order rather than for his own gratification, but I do wonder about his customers. I also wonder about the people defending it as innocent WW2 roleplay or just a military uniform fetish in this community. In a game populated by people who actually act like adults, I'd actually accept it. But in this immature playground covered in its occupants proverbial excrement? Come on guys, how naive are you? It's APB, people just want the Nazi uniform to be edgy and try and piss people off, and anything else is giant fib.

 

 

Edited May 28, 2018 by MrChan

[Ohshii 215]

It's a god damn game you guys literally act like this is real life.

 

Stop being mad at someone playing the game in a way that hurts your feelings. Who literally gives af how people dress in APB. The point of the game is to kill each other to level up to max rank. Anything else past that is filler and extra stuff to keep people entertained. If you don't like how someone is dressing in-game just ignore them or go somewhere else. This is no different than the crybabies who throw tantrums about anime outfits, furry outfits and anything that hurts their fragile feelings.

 

Stop acting like crybabies and grow up. Focus on yourself and not what others are doing. Snowflakes, man I swear to god.

 

 

[Weaboos 89]

I don't think outfits themselves mean any hatred as long as the creator does not intend them to be or use with such intent.

 

Used to be okay back in the older days as long as it does not contain any outlawed political symbols such as the ones from NSDAP. If anyone gets triggered by this it's their problem...

 

Quick low detail NS themed outfit:

 

 

I wish they added this model of uniform in the future tho 

 

 

Personally I'd get more annoyed by social district looking like moviehub with all of those titties and whatnot plastered all over the place...

[vsb 6171]

9 minutes ago, DarkRider400 said:

So you're justifying nazi uniforms by "creative freedom"?

 

So it's creative freedom if someone designs the swastika and SS symbols in the Designer?

 

Or maybe when they're wearing said uniform and spewing hate speech through VOIP where there's no record of it unless some lucky person manages to catch it on recording when theyre not busy playing the game? 

 

It opens avenues that shouldn't be opened. The hard-on you all seem to be getting from "discussing" (even though none of you have actually discussed anything), is that you'd like to wear nazi uniforms "for RP".

 

It doesn't matter than it's a game, the outfit itself is an enabler for those with unacceptable behavior and tendencies to say things that shouldn't be said.

 

Tell me, what country's outfit sells the most? I doubt it's Russia's. And it seems like most would rather wear modern USA military clothing than WW2-style. Willing to bet very few people actually care for French/British/Japanese/etc WW2 clothing, which leaves Germany as the last major country. Can't imagine why that is.

it’s not creative freedom because it is in fact limited from using specific symbols, like the moderator above has already stated

 

likewise there’s no freedom of speech in this game

 

using your personal preferences and assumptions to judge what is and is not acceptable for everyone is foolish and shortsighted

[Ohshii 215]

Just now, ╬ PzKpfw VI Tiger said:

I don't think outfits themselves mean any hatred as long as the creator does not intend them to be or use with such intent.

 

Used to be okay back in the older days as long as it does not contain any outlawed political symbols such as the ones from NSDAP. If anyone gets triggered by this it's their problem...

 

Quick low detail NS themed outfit:

 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

 

 

 

 

I wish they added this model of uniform in the future tho 

 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

 

 

 

 

Personally I'd get more annoyed by social district looking like moviehub with all of those titties and whatnot plastered all over the place...

 

 

Looks good man, gg's

 

[AbuMohammad 104]

25 minutes ago, RitualLobotomy said:

Alright, I've read a bit through this thread and decided to give my two cents to it.

 

All of you guys make some really good points, so let's see what we can make of it...

 

First of all, when it comes to why making something in this game. Why make military faction uniforms? I don't know. Some people really like the looks of it. Why does someone else make an anime character, etc.? Pretty much the same reason. Creativity is the key and it is one of the reasons people still enjoy it. Creativity should not be limited because of different tastes.

 

Now, with that in mind, let's discuss the sensitive content issue. Yes, hatred symbols are strictly forbidden, but a certain design of a uniform should not be an issue. Plenty of other things non-related to military that tick people as it is. So that means, while you may not use the exact same insignia on your design, colour scheme of the uniform, shape and such (and I see nothing wrong with you Soviet one you placed as an example) is not a problem. 

 

Personally, I would suggest you to perhaps look up the Wolfenstein censorship, and see if their way of doing it will inspire you to create what you will without any sensitive material. Of course, as you said, details there are much different that details in APB, but nevertheless, it is a good example. Good luck!

 

EDIT: I am referring to the German edition of Wolfenstein 

Ok, here is my fast version of it.

Modern iron cross on the band, made little and not detailed. "NOT NAZI" on the armband where division name should be. 77 on the collar instead of rank insignia. Eagle also made schematically, just a combination of angel prints resembling it. I think all insignias and symbols are pure and censored, both accepted by customers and not offending anyone. Do you approve it?

[HK33E 40]

27 minutes ago, DarkRider400 said:

So you're justifying nazi uniforms by "creative freedom"?

Are you high or something? DOOD... Don't come here with this BS: "Nobody can make a german uniform because it hurts my feelings."

 

If is not displaying the Swastika, there's no problem.

So what's next... You'll cry asking LO to remove the JB 10 and 12 because they contain a OCSP "KOMMANDANT" (Luger P-08) and Obeya CAP-40 "The Sergeant" (MP40)? Both weapons are based on German Weaponry from WW2.

[BrightNightLight 36]

It goes beyond symbols.
While hate symbols are not allowed to begin with, a case could be made that a uniform without them is fine.
On the same note, even a "clean" uniform would still unmistakably call back to its more offensive roots.
At the moment we can't give a clear statement on whether or not something like Abu's creation is allowed, but we will let the players know as soon as a decision is made.

[AbuMohammad 104]

I researched this theme a bit further, and found more modern Bundeswehr photos. It is maybe more resembling than my costume jacket ever will be. In my opinion f this doesn't offend people, apb limited version can't technically become so resembling to offend anyone. But anyway, i wait for a decision

[VickyFox 353]

21 minutes ago, AbuMohammad said:

I researched this theme a bit further, and found more modern Bundeswehr photos. It is maybe more resembling than my costume jacket ever will be. In my opinion f this doesn't offend people, apb limited version can't technically become so resembling to offend anyone. But anyway, i wait for a decision

 

That's about the and closest thing to a response you're going to get.

Modern uniforms have changed and you know symbols are a no go but if you keep having to ask if it's ok, then you're probably not going to get a response until it comes via email from customer support.

Sorry to be rude but please take a hint.

[MrChan 337]

The issue I have is whenever this is discussed, we discuss it in lofty terms about freedom of expression and so on, which effectively ignores the practical reality of things.

 

And the practical reality of this is the toxicity within the APB community. That's the level at which I think this discussion needs to happen.

 

Most people who dress their character in a WW2 era German uniform in this game are very likely using it as a proxy for actual Nazi iconography because they're not allowed have actual Nazi iconography. You can bet they'd plaster swastikas everywhere and call their clan "Gas the Jews" if they could. How do I know this? Because that's sort of childish, faux edgy nonsense that's immensely popular in APB. And we've all seen people who've doubled down and actually had the swastikas and the clans with names like "Auschwitz Holiday Camp". At least until they were banned anyway

 

So they're just doing it to antagonise, and you can say "well don't let it antagonise you then, hur hur I clever." and I personally won't, but the desire to piss people off simply for its own sake is a large part of why the APB community is so toxic. Yet here we are wanting to enable another instance of it? Why? It's contradictory. Do we actually want APB to be one of the most consistently awful communities?

 

Let's look at it another way: Should it be okay for people to continuously send whispers (which unlike charater customisations, can actually be blocked) to other people telling them to get cancer and die? I mean, they're only words, aren't they? It's only offensive if the recipient stupidly allows themselves to be offended by it, right?

 

Now, if you don't see that as a rhetorical question and think it's ok that's fine. And it won't offend me at all if Little Orbit let us have all the Freedom of Expression in the world and the game ends up crawling with Nazis. I'll enjoy shooting them. Just so long as everyone is willing to accept what sort of community we're going to have. That's what the discussion should be, not "muh freedom man!!". By being here, you buy into a set of rules. Little Orbit sets those rules. It's down to them, in conjunction with the community, to decide what sort of place here is.

 

 

And Nazi iconography didn't go away in 1945 either, btw. It's still used by hate groups (well, the ones that haven't been clever enough to sub in a Black Sun or Odal rune or some other less obvious symbol used by an SS regiment), so it's not like we're all supposed to forget about it because it was 73 years ago.

Edited May 28, 2018 by MrChan

[magik 184]

4 hours ago, DarkRider400 said:

 

I like how you tell me to show common sense, but you lack any bit of it.

 

The point is WHY do people feel the need to "dress up and play military" in APB? It serves no purpose. All it does is cause conflict, hence why we're on the forums right now, dingus.

 

ArmA 3 was literally designed around that, looks much better, and plays better for whatever military application they need. It has no place in APB.

I have yet to see any common sense replies, only posts relating to how you feel about the topic, and what you think, which, isn't against forum rules, and isn't bad; This man is asking a question to the devs, and honestly wants a reassurance it's okay, or a denial because of the game's new policy.

4 hours ago, DarkRider400 said:

Im sorry, are you blind or stupid, or both?

Nowhere have I mentioned that the nazi symbol affects my emotions. I don't care about it in the least.

My concern is that the whole topic is useless dribble, and that if the question seriously has to be asked, then why bother doing it in the first place for a specific audience that consists of MAYBE 50 people who have hard-ons for WW2 junk in APB.

First, Ad Hominem, you're attacking the person, not the argument.

Second, you don't have to mention something affects your emotions, as the way you write can reveal the intentions, and meanings behind words.

Third, Non-Sequitur, if any question is seriously asked, why bother even asking, why bother finding out information for anything? Because the OP has a lack of information presented. He has asked for a clarification of rules. Simple.

 

4 hours ago, AbuMohammad said:

For me a purpose of making new outfits is a possibility to get new customers and to try making something more complicated. Moreover, i like the creation process

His reason has been stated.

 

4 hours ago, DarkRider400 said:

So you're justifying nazi uniforms by "creative freedom"?

How is he 'justifying Nazi uniforms?' Do you mean justifying his wish to create them?

This game has

1: One of, if not, the best creation systems in the gaming industry

2: If his wish is to create something that can showcase his ability to use the tools provided to him, and show his skills on creating something historically accurate, how is this wrong?

 

So it's creative freedom if someone designs the swastika and SS symbols in the Designer?

OP stated he knows the Swastika is off limits. That's a given. The German Iron Cross is not, it's a symbol that has been used in many games, and media, to represent the German government or military before and during WWII.

Or maybe when they're wearing said uniform and spewing hate speech through VOIP where there's no record of it unless some lucky person manages to catch it on recording when theyre not busy playing the game? 

If the person who buys his uniform spews hate speech, that's not the person's fault.

Let's say you bought a car from a dealership, and you decided, that once you drove it off the lot, you wanted to use it as a weapon and attack people. Is this the dealership's fault for selling you the car? No, they didn't have nor the ability to know what you were going to use the car for, unless you told them. (Unlike guns, buying a car doesn't really require a background check... I guess a credit check...)

The person breaking the rules should be banned, not the creator for selling him something.

It opens avenues that shouldn't be opened. The hard-on you all seem to be getting from "discussing" (even though none of you have actually discussed anything), is that you'd like to wear nazi uniforms "for RP".

What avenues does this open? You use emotional language, and a Fallacy of Exclusion. Anyone can Roleplay whatever character they like, as long as they follow rules, and aren't spewing hate speech. Some people can roleplay as an anime character, and might want to show some cleavage. According to the rules, nudity has it's limits. If someone is roleplaying a s** scene, dressed as a complete naked woman, showing all the bits, that's against the rules, but someone merely making an anime woman topless as a symbol is allowed (on the PC version of the game).

It doesn't matter than it's a game, the outfit itself is an enabler for those with unacceptable behavior and tendencies to say things that shouldn't be said.

The outfit doesn't enable anyone to do any unacceptable behavior. They enable themselves, and will get punished for the unacceptable behavior.

Tell me, what country's outfit sells the most? I doubt it's Russia's. And it seems like most would rather wear modern USA military clothing than WW2-style. Willing to bet very few people actually care for French/British/Japanese/etc WW2 clothing, which leaves Germany as the last major country. Can't imagine why that is.

You just threw a red herring, it shouldn't matter which outfit sells the most. If you want to wear a USA military outfit, all power to you. If I want to wear a crusader outfit from 1066, why not? You're excusing the argument because "I can't imagine why". If you can't imagine why, why even try to 'imagine' an argument up?

 

Edited May 28, 2018 by Sergsininia
spelling fix for 'stated'

[AbuMohammad 104]

Anyway, such "only resembling" uniforms are as old as apb, being using by clans and a lot of single guys. I ask this question only because i want to make an always ordered thing without breaking rules and only to fulfill orders. Who will break rules and post it on forum? I only try to find out official position about such content

[BuckyTheBronco 37]

15 minutes ago, AbuMohammad said:

Anyway, such "only resembling" uniforms are as old as apb, being using by clans and a lot of single guys. I ask this question only because i want to make an always ordered thing without breaking rules and only to fulfill orders. Who will break rules and post it on forum? I only try to find out official position about such content

Personally, I feel like your quick make-up of a uniform you just posted is completely fine. It still represents a German uniform but eliminates the symbols of hate which sparks the issue of racism, hate, etc. I feel like the uniform isn't breaking any rules and is a good happy-medium to the "creative freedom" discussion. Not sure if the "NOT NAZI" arm band is permanent or not, but I feel like it's not really necessary to the outfit and instead puts a poor thought/image in my mind.

Edited May 28, 2018 by BuckyTheBronco

[AbuMohammad 104]

Also, I spend all day here and potentially risk to clearly divide accepted versions of content (and what should be done to make it such) from unaccepted, such as a ton of it here (as you see this question and problem is as old as the game) https://www.google.ru/search?tbm=isch&q=apb reloaded nazi#imgrc=N-DSk2FUfNL59M:

[AbuMohammad 104]

8 minutes ago, BuckyTheBronco said:

Personally, I feel like your quick make-up of a uniform you just posted is completely fine. It still represents a German uniform but eliminates the symbols of hate which sparks the issue of racism, hate, etc. I feel like the uniform isn't breaking any rules and is a good happy-medium to the "creative freedom" discussion. Not sure if the "NOT NAZI" arm band is permanent or not, but I feel like it's not really necessary to the outfit and instead puts a poor thought/image in my mind.

thanks for your opinion, I think it's better to put there something just unreadable. It will keep the accuracy and won't be symbolic

[Harley Quinn 15]

afaik the nazi symbol aka swastika is the only one that's banned

Edited May 28, 2018 by Harley Quinn

[AbuMohammad 104]

3 minutes ago, Harley Quinn said:

afaik the nazi symbol aka swastika is the only one that's banned

That really was true for gamersfirst, but there are new owners and new rules. Moreover, there is another question, who will get a punishment? A tailor who made it but never showed an uniform or spoke anything wrong in chat, or an actual holder who use it at his own risk with his own way. Historically, this already happened to Hugo Boss, who actually made it all but wasn't banned after and kept a business. But what will be here?