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Unclean

An idea some will love, some may hate.. But will bring LO morale up.

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@Lixil @MattScott 
@Tobii@GhosT @Hexerin @NotZombieBiscuit @Kempington

I really want to support LO and all that's going on.. I know right now may be tough with people criticizing the company just from something like the meta changes, and with having patience (not everyone can understand baby steps) in the changes and while you all figure out what to do with not only in-game balance changes, but with ARMAS.

I also know that it must bring morale down when you read threads about sales and read things like "let's wait until they figure it out" even though I agree, and you probably do too... Selling stuff right now and then changing the way the store works/prices in the store would cause a lot of grief and support tickets.

But I have a solution to both you, who needs morale in the office, and those of us who want to support you with our earned money. 

When the Revelations pack was first released, it was called an "early access pass" and came out in 3 phases over a couple months' time period. This "pass" is considered one of the best deals on ARMAS, and one of the first things people with more purchasing "experience" tell people to get since you get more bang for your buck. If you are working on more content (I'm sure you are), then a suggestion I have for you to is to create a bundle just like the revelations pass with an upfront cost that covers just a couple simple things like cosmetics or maybe a car kit for the coywolf and a variant to a legendary or reskin to a gun. 

To do this right, you will need to look into old files to see what is a WIP and look through suggestions.. I have a few of my own, but I'm confident that the community can provide more than enough. Then it's up to you on how long you take to really sort this out and what to release in each phase. This gives you the opportunity to create revenue for your team in upgrading to UE3.5 and then further on to UE4 to allow more content and gives you plenty of time to create and release the content from each phase at your own pace with the money upfront from those who want to save money by buying into the bundle and also from those who would rather wait and buy the weapons and cosmetics as standalone items in ARMAS for a higher rate than if they were to just buy the whole bundle. 

I would also think about adding more loyalty rewards as those who may be close to said rewards would most likely spend a bit more here and there to reach each new reward.
Yes, you should be focusing on the game engine, how it runs, and it's protection.. but you cannot allow yourselves to fall short of your goals because you run out of drive and money to do so.

No other game is like APB. Let's keep it around, update it to modern standards, and see how far we can take it. Edited by Unclean
Spelling corrections. Added more tags because reasons.
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24 minutes ago, CookiePuss said:

Yeah @Tobii, what do you think?

lmao...

fyi OP: tobi is just a member of the APB community, not part of LO.

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 @Tobii pls unban i no hack

really tho, early access pretty universally seen as a scam these days isn’t it?

cant imagine that would be a goo look for orbit atm

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i hope tobii approves this idea

Edited by gogol

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16 minutes ago, Snubnose said:
lmao...

fyi OP: tobi is just a member of the APB community, not part of LO.
I know. But he's the only very known member of both the game and the forums that actually rationalizes how he feels about the game in it's current state and ideas.

I'd tag Kemp, but he's not as active as he was in the past and cookie is just a troll. I'd tag Pound, but he'd rather be playing the game than on the forums. I'd tag ghost, but I'm not sure if he's been playing or not. Edited by Unclean

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3 minutes ago, NotZombieBiscuit said:

Why is Tobii so special huh? HUH. 

I heard he has a third nipple on his back.

that's special in my book 😂

There booboo, you're there too now Edited by Unclean

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Well, good to know that submitting a post edit also resubmits quote/mention notifications. Wasn't going to comment, but eh, might as well if you're gonna poke me.

As someone who owns both existing packs (Juggernaut and Revelations), I would happily purchase more (assuming they gave similar value in the form of multiple guns, a car, clothing, etc). You could make them all reskins of existing weapons/cars, and I'd be just as satisfied with my purchase though.

I would also greatly appreciate more loyalty reward tiers, as I've spent more than enough to get at least the next few tiers retroactively. How about slapping that FFA 5.56 R&D III in loyalty rewards, since you can't get it via JMBs anymore? I ask this as someone who already owns the tradeable JMB version, so I have very little to gain from it.

To add to the idea pool of ways to generate income with existing assets, how about adding the variant role unlocks to ARMAS? Stuff like N-TEC Stock, JG Tactical, etc. The only reason I haven't purchased the N-TEC account bound yet is because I can't purchase the Stock variant. Easy money for the effort of an intern's lunch break.

We still don't have a three slot Scoped N-TEC available, and there's no longer an excuse to not add it as the VAS Scepter exists. Another instant purchase. Slap a scope on the CR-5 and I'd buy that one as well. I like the aesthetic of N-TEC for my Criminal and CR-5 for my Enforcer. Fite me.

Could also add O-PGL and OSMAW on there, since ARMAS long ago dropped any pretense of not having purchasable explosive weapons.

If you're feeling extra saucy, how about adding the lineup of Less than Lethal weapons, with the three primaries having open slots? I'd buy all five account bound, without hesitation.

 

Edited by Hexerin
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18 minutes ago, Hexerin said:

Well, good to know that submitting a post edit also resubmits quote/mention notifications. Wasn't going to comment, but eh, might as well if you're gonna poke me.
 

Sorry lol.. people were asking why Tobii was special, so I added more who could add actual feedback, and thank you for it
 
19 minutes ago, Hexerin said:


If you're feeling extra saucy, how about adding the lineup of Less than Lethal weapons, with the three primaries having open slots? I'd buy all five account bound, without hesitation.

 

As long as it doesn't mean broken weapons, I'd be down for this.. I play as criminal and would feel left out, but at the same time I think we'll see crim weapons with time.

I would love to see more open slot legendaries or something similar in loyalty rewards as well.

I also think 1 or 2-open slot secondaries would sell like CRAZY

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No love for the Juggernaut Pack? It was the first to do the "release in phases" thing, don't go thinking the Revelations Pack is the ground breaker here. Juggernaut was doing it before it was cool.


But then and now, I love the idea, not only does it give devs time to iron out the content, but it's so much nicer releasing it in phases so as a player I can enjoy things as they come and like give them a good amount of attention before moving on, rather than getting it all in a huge lump and I have to go searching for what I bought, I swear I still have a string of items I haven't even touched or looked at since buying them in a pack.

Edited by KnifuWaifu
why didn't I get an @? :(
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2 minutes ago, KnifuWaifu said:

No love for the Juggernaut Pack? It was the first to do the "release in phases" thing, don't go thinking the Revelations Pack is the ground breaker here. Juggernaut was doing it before it was cool.


But then and now, I love the idea, not only does it give devs time to iron out the content, but it's so much nicer releasing it in phases so as a player I can enjoy things as they come and like give them a good amount of attention before moving on, rather than getting it all in a huge lump and I have to go searching for what I bought, I swear I still have a string of items I haven't even touched or looked at since buying them in a pack.

I honestly forgot the Juggernaut pack did the same thing.. and yes, the packs are freaking amazing with the amount of content you get for just having a bit of patience..


Also sorry... I don't know you very well.... next time I'll remember
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1 minute ago, Unclean said:
Sorry lol.. people were asking why Tobii was special, so I added more who could add actual feedback, and thank you for it
It's all good, don't worry about it.
 
1 minute ago, Unclean said:
As long as it doesn't mean broken weapons, I'd be down for this.. I play as criminal and would feel left out, but at the same time I think we'll see crim weapons with time.
LTL weapon's base stats are complete trash compared to any equivalent lethal weapon, giving them open slots won't change this. As an Enforcer main who also mains LTL, I'm a firm supporter of Criminals getting a role that mimics LTL, getting Criminal-themed reskins of the Enforcer LTL weapons.
 
1 minute ago, Unclean said:
I would love to see more open slot legendaries or something similar in loyalty rewards as well.
There's certainly multiple precedent examples, so adding more would be totally legit.
 
1 minute ago, Unclean said:
I also think 1 or 2-open slot secondaries would sell like CRAZY
These don't exist due to engine limitations. Maybe with UE4... but they'd need mod limitations so they don't get silly overpowered. There's plenty of examples of that already (eg Fang).

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1 minute ago, Hexerin said:
LTL weapon's base stats are complete trash compared to any equivalent lethal weapon, giving them open slots won't change this. As an Enforcer main who also mains LTL, I'm a firm supporter of Criminals getting a role that mimics LTL, getting Criminal-themed reskins of the Enforcer LTL weapons.
Stats wise for TTS compared to TTK are bad, yes, but from what I remember LTL has that slight AoE that can hit around corners/cover and the recoil and spread are incredibly managable compared to lethal weapons.. I could be wrong though since it has been a while since I used them myself.

To me, criminals doing LTL makes no sense... it would be fair, BUT it would only bring the two factions closer, and I personally think we should be doing the opposite.. Giving Criminals (balanced) lethal weapons of their own that have different characteristics and giving enforcers a way to make money outside of missions like hacking or something seems like a good way to go
 
4 minutes ago, Hexerin said:
These don't exist due to engine limitations. Maybe with UE4... but they'd need mod limitations so they don't get silly overpowered. There's plenty of examples of that already (eg Fang).
Ah, I didn't know about the engine limitations.. I knew there would be some secondaries that would be pretty powerful with mods, but there are usually easy fixes for that either involving effective ranges or magazine size/reload speed... I don't think ALL secondaries could allow slots, but some of the less used ones could definitely use a one-slot variant. I guess it'll all have to wait though.

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16 minutes ago, Unclean said:
LTL has that slight AoE that can hit around corners/cover
No, just no.
 
16 minutes ago, Unclean said:
the recoil and spread are incredibly managable compared to lethal weapons
The NL9 has nearly pixel perfect accuracy while hipfired on the move, and basically no recoil, despite being a marksman rifle. Course, that's mostly because Gamersfirst/Reloaded decided it would be a good idea to change it from a shotgun to a marksman rifle without changing any of its stats. It takes three shots to stun though, which is a very bad thing due to its exceptionally slow fire interval. If you can track your targets well, it's still undoubtedly better than the CCG.

Which brings us to the CCG. It has significant recoil (more than the assault rifles, but less than something like the tommygun or Manic), and also moderate bloom (think along the lines of the STAR's bloom). It's highly accurate if tapped or bursted, but full auto is very bad outside 10m-15m. It also has fairly poor hipfire, but that's mostly because it takes eight shots to stun so the RNG hurts that much more.

I personally prefer the CCG, but active target tracking is also one of my weak points. It's why I'm so much better at longer ranges, especially with a sniper rifle.
 
16 minutes ago, Unclean said:
To me, criminals doing LTL makes no sense...
Hostage taking, makes perfect sense. Makes it harder to saturate the area with explosives, while also reducing the Enforcer team's threat level for a time.
 
16 minutes ago, Unclean said:
Ah, I didn't know about the engine limitations.. I knew there would be some secondaries that would be pretty powerful with mods, but there are usually easy fixes for that either involving effective ranges or magazine size/reload speed... I don't think ALL secondaries could allow slots, but some of the less used ones could definitely use a one-slot variant. I guess it'll all have to wait though.
It'd definitely be a fun expansion to our loadout customization, I'm also hopeful it'll be a reality someday.

  Edited by Hexerin

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17 minutes ago, Hexerin said:
No, just no.
Must just seem that way because of the weird latency sometimes then lol.. 

The only things I have against LTL really is ease of use (cheap tactics are in lethal gameplay as well though), takes so long when time is a main factor in missions, and that there is no protection from it..



On topic: I wonder if modifications would sell well in ARMAS.. shortcuts for those under R195 and such. If they are introduced, I don't think the one ones currently in game should be made untradable though. Just something to help those getting into the game or rerolling

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We don't need more guns in APB.. We have enough as is.
And since we have a hard time balancing them, adding more would be a big no no for quite a while.

All in all, I don't feel like adding stuff is the way to go for now.. There is two sides to this.
If they do their job, people will be happy and actually buy things.
They can also focus on content, and the game will just slowly wither.

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20 minutes ago, Tobii said:

We don't need more guns in APB.. We have enough as is.
And since we have a hard time balancing them, adding more would be a big no no for quite a while.

All in all, I don't feel like adding stuff is the way to go for now.. There is two sides to this.
If they do their job, people will be happy and actually buy things.
They can also focus on content, and the game will just slowly wither.

Fair is fair.. I asked for your input lol

I just hope they have enough to sustain the workload through all their upgrades and updates to keep it alive.

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1 minute ago, Unclean said:
I just hope they have enough to sustain the workload through all their upgrades and updates to keep it alive.
If every weapon would become viable, it means that every weapon would become a viable purchase.

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12 minutes ago, Unclean said:
Fair is fair.. I asked for your input lol

I just hope they have enough to sustain the workload through all their upgrades and updates to keep it alive.
if they do things right, it should not be a problem .
The issue is that if they don't listen and just do as they please, people will slowly leave and the game WILL eventually die.
Adding new guns/clothing/vehicles will not fix that.
It might satisfy some of the already playing people, but it will NOT pull in new people.

I am not against adding new things. but we need a bigger the player base to actually support that decision. Edited by Tobii
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1 minute ago, Dopefish said:
4 minutes ago, Unclean said:
I just hope they have enough to sustain the workload through all their upgrades and updates to keep it alive.
If every weapon would become viable, it means that every weapon would become a viable purchase.
True.. but this takes baby steps.. and we see what happens when new weapons enter meta standards.

There's no way to really tell LO who to listen to, and no way to tell the community to have patience with the changes as we ramp up (or down) to bring weapons into a viable standard..
 
3 minutes ago, Tobii said:
if they do things right, it should not be a problem .
The issue is that if they don't listen and just do as the please, people will slowly leave and the game will eventually die.
Adding new guns/clothing/vehicles will not fix that.
It might satisfy some of the already playing people, but it will NOT pull in new people.

I am not against adding new things. but we need a bigger the player base to actually support that decision.
I agree, but without knowing what kind of budget LO is working with, I'm scared that APB will fall into the forgotten realm of great f2p games like Blacklight, Dirty Bomb, and lots of other examples I'm too lazy to think of atm..

Having a phase based release will give LO a chance to release new content, get more money up front, with the promise of releasing further content later, and still focus on the engine and servers themselves. 
The other ideas I threw around with Hexerin like mods and such may help new players, but that's not really what this pack would be about.. It's more about us supporting LO with the budget towards the upgrades that really matter.

You're completely right about adding new weapons. It will only make balancing existing ones harder and also add in more characteristics that make it harder to keep weapons different, but that's one of the reasons I said we should either only really look into reskins, slotted legendaries, or player suggestions.

Even if it were just reskins of certain weapons or a pack of weapons that we haven't had the chance to mod like legendaries or any of the examples Hexerin brought up, plus clothing or a car kit.. People will still buy it in a game like APB. Adding loyalty rewards helps the game, but doesn't justify actually spending more money in the ARMAS marketplace when we know changes to ARMAS will happen in the future. A bundle where you know you're getting a great deal with phases of new goodies afterwards does very well though.. That's why AAA games are doing their annual or season passes (that only cover actual seasons) instead of the old season passes that may give you everything.. it's the promise of more content without having to deliver it all at once and really hold back the team from working on the things that matter..


On the other hand, if LO has a budget suited for what they are going for without any help, then more power to them..

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1 hour ago, Tobii said:

We don't need more guns in APB.. We have enough as is.
And since we have a hard time balancing them, adding more would be a big no no for quite a while.

All in all, I don't feel like adding stuff is the way to go for now.. There is two sides to this.
If they do their job, people will be happy and actually buy things.
They can also focus on content, and the game will just slowly wither.

I think aesthetically, we could use a few more, just make them reskins so we don't have to worry about stats and balance (not that it would stop any complaints anyway). 

I love APB's customisation and it would be really nice to add in some more themed sets like the Juggernaut Pack (Steyr Set). Stat-wise make them all reskined NTECs for all I care, sometimes I want to run around with a something that hasn't been soaking in vodka for the last 60 years.
 
2 hours ago, Unclean said:
Also sorry... I don't know you very well.... next time I'll remember

shh-bby-is-ok.jpg Edited by KnifuWaifu

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If balance is a concern, then as has been said simply make any new weapons reskins of existing ones. There's plenty of guns that have received little or no love in the reskin department, this would be a great opportunity to rectify that.

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5 hours ago, Unclean said:
I know. But he's the only very known member of both the game and the forums that actually rationalizes how he feels about the game in it's current state and ideas.

I'd tag Kemp, but he's not as active as he was in the past and cookie is just a troll. I'd tag Pound, but he'd rather be playing the game than on the forums. I'd tag ghost, but I'm not sure if he's been playing or not.

I've started playing again since LO made their first good changes, and I'm willing to support APB again now that there's a seemingly good company behind it.
Though I don't play daily, and not as much as before, I don't have that time anymore.
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