Weapon Balance - Community discussion

[cerv 14]

9 minutes ago, Lign said:

Quickswitch should stay but be nerfed by reducing damage per shot by hvr. 700-750 should be the best. N-tec should get reduced accuracy and increased bloom by 2%, that will make it more challengeable. Carbine needs to get accuracy buff a bit, it's still good weapon in my opinion, one of the best, but sometimes rng makes me cancer. Atac is fine, I don't want to see it as a laser gun again as it was before the nerf. That's only my opinion

Personally I find quickswitching more annoying than the damage but either or would be a decent change in my eyes. I don't believe that nerf would do much to change the ntec meta as the STAR and other similar AR's would still be a straight downgrade in the more "competitve" matches and its just boring to have one gun be the best in class. It would probably cause more variety in random matchups though.

 

I used to be a carbine ballerina back when it was popular in NA circa ~2013 and while I don't think it needs to go back to that it definitely needs a change so it'd see more use. I agree that it's a good weapon but in most cases where i'd use a carbine I'd simply just take out a oscar instead.

 

Atac isn't fine, it's currently a laser beam and requires absolutely no effort to use right now. Previous to its buff in (i'd like to say 2015?) it was still easy to use, but not as easy as it is now. I mainly see it on silvers and awful golds though so it doesn't tend to bother me that much.

[iPlumbum 80]

Ntec - Less ammo per mag / range nerf / damage drop off nerf 

Obir - Damage nerf / Higher TTK

HVR - Remove QS

 

CQC weapons have their own niche and different styles to use them properly.

 

Yukon - a duplicate of what the Mac 10 secondary used to be, you shouldn't be allowed to feel as safe with a secondary as you do with a primary. When I think secondary, I am thinking Last resort / Finisher weapon, Granted some are used for different loadouts i.e. an smg with a joker pistol etc for that extra range. Running around with a yukon etc and killing people like its a primary smg is ridiculous.

 

Macro users - Anti cheat needs to be able to detect and ban Macro users, especially for Obeya FBW pistol users but also semi automatic weapons in general.

[HandThatFeeds 0]

How did the OBIR even come up? It's TTK is already terrible lol

 

[ninetenduh 40]

No. Just no it is not better when the Playerbase points out things, it's the absolute opposite. The only thing that needs to be fixed or removed is quick switching. Currently, the balancing is good and has been good. 

 

Anything else like Nerf N-Tec or HVR Damage bla bla is just whining and nothing else. Yes, we get it, you get owned by a weapon, we simply chose to not give a damn and git gut.

 

Balancing is where it should be. Leave the Weapon balancing alone.

[CommandantSteele 52]

I'm always going to take community opinions on weapon balance with a spoonful of salt because, let's be honest, a lot of the time the solution presented by members of the community is "Gut all the strengths the weapon has." Which would leave a game filled with boring, same-y weapons. I would personally kinda like to see the weapon families defined a bit better an then the weapons within that family sharing similar traits.

 

As an example: HVR family weapons.

 

Low rounds per magazine. Maybe even only having one round per magazine.

Slow firing speed.

Damage ramp-up.

 

Here's the weaknesses of the weapon. It pushes it far into the territory where you need to be careful and precise with how you use the weapon. So what about the strengths of the weapon?

 

Limited damage fall off.

High health and stamina damage.

 

So here's where the HVR would sit, described in a realistic situation ingame: Double B is perched on top of a parking garage with an HVR in hand. She's got one shot and she's waiting for Chung-hee to bring the objective he grabbed out of the shipping crate. Violet Prentiss is waiting nearby in her V20 Jericho, though she's a fair distance away. Down at street level, Shift is waiting with her pistol out. Chung-hee hops the fence leading to the street, and Double B takes her shot, nailing Chung-hee. Chung-hee now has a problem: He's missing half his health and he can't sprint well. This puts Shift into action, as she jumps from cover and begins to run at Chung-hee, firing wildly with her pistol and trying to get into shotgun range. Violet Prentiss is getting out of her Jericho to get her own rifle out, and Double B is reloading her HVR.

 

I'm not going to finish the story because I don't need to, but removing the absurdly high HP damage from the HVR and replacing it with decent stamina damage would push the weapon into more of a team support role. Especially if you have only one round per magazine. You'd have to reload each time, you're only chunking half of someone's HP instead of most of it, and you're depriving them of sprint for a short while. This is the PERFECT time for the rest of your team to get into action and follow up on the shot. As an added bonus, you still have the option of picking off weakened players, though the window for doing this is much smaller due to requiring them to be half health before you take your shot. Plus, this fixes quickswitching, as I'm sure everyone enjoys the fun of "Okay I just took a little bit of scratch damage from their .45 and... Oh they switched to a HVR and one shot me even though I'd only taken one or two shots."

 

That's just my idea though, and I'm not claiming it to be perfect. I'd love to hear feedback on at least that.

[Kimotsi 41]

Seeing all these posts about nerfing hvr makes no sense.In almost all shooters a high power sniper is almost always a one hit kill.No one ever complains about it

[Shini 251]

Oof this is a spicy thread with lots of arguments so I'll just keep my suggestions minor.

 

Reduce NTEC's mag capacity by 6 bullets (from 32 to 26). Thats one full kill, just makes it less spamable. I think big changes can mess things up royally for the most used gun (excluding STAR) for players in the game.

 

HVR on the other hand needs to be less versatile and only good for range. Increase equip time. Absolutely kill it's accuracy when jumping and moving. Reduce FOV greatly. Maybe a damage ramp up as in, less damage in CQC and return to full damage after a certain point. Maybe less damage in total to 750 instead.

I don't know, obviously not all of those nerfs but any combination of two or three of those. Right now its just such a beast for teams and a meme for CQC, right now it's still surprisingly good at <20m with jump shots and the like. Tapping crouch should not instantly grant you 100% accuracy.

Being rushed as a sniper should mean death to you, or require you to fully commit to your secondary or have a team mate assist. Not have you go, lol PAP *switch* and insta LUL on the rusher with an instant accurate 850 damage truck.

 

Also replying to the post above -

Quote

"Seeing all these posts about nerfing hvr makes no sense.In almost all shooters a high power sniper is almost always a one hit kill. No one ever complains about it"

In those games snipers have other downsides, like having a really low FOV, gun sway, the sniper bullet being a projectile, the sniper being rare in some BR games, I mean in games's like counter strike they have multiple downsides to snipers. Low FOV, terrible no scope accuracy, slow movement, High cost so if you buy it and lose the round and the gun, you've lost a major investment and you're possibly useless for another round or two.

In a game like APB, you just equip it and well, piss.

 

Edited May 27, 2018 by Shini

[Puffdragon 131]

Remove osmaw cooldown, the rest is fine. Cya.

[Necros 0]

7 minutes ago, Shini said:

Oof this is a spicy thread with lots of arguments so I'll just keep my suggestions minor.

 

Reduce NTEC's mag capacity by 6 bullets (from 32 to 26). Thats one full kill, just makes it less spamable. I think big changes can mess things up royally for the most used gun (excluding STAR) for players in the game.

 

HVR on the other hand needs to be less versatile and only good for range. Increase equip time. Absolutely kill it's accuracy when jumping and moving. Reduce FOV greatly. Maybe a damage ramp up as in, less damage in CQC and return to full damage after a certain point. Maybe less damage in total to 750 instead.

I don't know, obviously not all of those nerfs but any combination of two or three of those. Right now its just such a beast for teams and a meme for CQC, right now it's still surprisingly good at <20m with jump shots and the like. Tapping crouch should not instantly grant you 100% accuracy.

Being rushed as a sniper should mean death to you, or require you to fully commit to your secondary or have a team mate assist. Not have you go, lol PAP *switch* and insta LUL on the rusher with an instant accurate 850 damage truck.

Thats the problem, we alredy have many rush weapons. Ntec, oca, shotguns, carbine/oscar, theres so many weapons you can rush a sniper in close combat. Maybe im salt because i cant main the HVR anymore, or even get a kill.

 

What about a slow time for consecutive shoots for HVR? nerfing the amout shoots you can spam at your enemy?

[virginiavirgin 46]

Don’t nerf the ogre leave the ogre as is if anything just nerf the magazine size to 14 like the way it used to be but other than that leave everything else alone i really love my ogre

[Shini 251]

1 minute ago, Necros said:

Thats the problem, we alredy have many rush weapons. Ntec, oca, shotguns, carbine/oscar, theres so many weapons you can rush a sniper in close combat. Maybe im salt because i cant main the HVR anymore, or even get a kill.

 

What about a slow time for consecutive shoots for HVR? nerfing the amout shoots you can spam at your enemy?

To be honest, I don't know what to do for people that unironically main the HVR.

My line of thinking is that you should realistically only bring out the HVR if you know your buddy or team as a whole has got your back, not become a one man army.

And that its not really about the fire rate of the gun I think, really most HVR players should be happy to get that one hit, since in organized teams it almost always means certain death to an enemy that is hit by it or at least he's out of the match to regen for 15 or seconds regardless.

 

[AgentWatson 85]

It's not the current list of meta weapons in the game that are the issue to be fair, it's the weapons in the game that perform sub-optimally or just don't fit into the meta currently. This has always been my experience with this community in that you guys never want anything to change in regards to weapon balance. I think this ties into a majority of the community being far too complacent. Things like the norseman variety of weapons, swarm and recent additions tend to be perform worse than any of their weapon archetype counterparts with exclusion to the Ogre and AMG. 

 

I'm personally under the belief controversial changes need to happen for instance removing most of the red mods entirely, Heavy Barrel, Improved Rifling and Cooling Jacket these all need to either go or they need to change. Red mods could alternatively be changed to be more interesting and buffed in some departments but come with large downsides. I feel that mods currently, specifically red mods don't do enough and if they do something they improve a characteristic about a weapon that makes it perform in an area it shouldn't.

 

Matt Scott and his team could go through each weapon making tiny adjustments to the weapons until we get a good place but that could take time. 

[GamingFloid 0]

Side - Comment

Dear lord what have i started xD

 

Im happy that my idea to discuss this topic was picked up so fasted.

I do have to say pl stay on the topic dont point out things that are not important so some one from little orbit can read trough this mess ^^

We want them to do a professional job, so dont let us make it hard for them ! 

 

Edited May 27, 2018 by GamingFloid

[Railer 8]

1 hour ago, DeadlyKittens said:

I would like to be able to use the trouble maker again, but ever since they nerfed it I can't hit the broadside of a barn if I close the door behind me

Have you even tried? TM is just fine as cqc gun atm. Its not god like how it used to be but its just fine as for now.

 

1 hour ago, cerv said:

I used to be a carbine ballerina back when it was popular in NA circa ~2013 and while I don't think it needs to go back to that it definitely needs a change so it'd see more use. I agree that it's a good weapon but in most cases where i'd use a carbine I'd simply just take out a oscar instead.

I would say do sth about OSCAR instead, Carbine is just fine as it is and any buff could make it too good at this point

 

1 hour ago, iPlumbum said:

Yukon - a duplicate of what the Mac 10 secondary used to be, you shouldn't be allowed to feel as safe with a secondary as you do with a primary. When I think secondary, I am thinking Last resort / Finisher weapon, Granted some are used for different loadouts i.e. an smg with a joker pistol etc for that extra range. Running around with a yukon etc and killing people like its a primary smg is ridiculous.

Yukon main issue is that the weapon is bugged, its using the burst fire rate in hip fire mode. Once its fixed there's no longer issue with it

53 minutes ago, HandThatFeeds said:

How did the OBIR even come up? It's TTK is already terrible lol

 

OBIR is extremely powerfull weapon in right hands. Both close range(reverse quickswitching or simply holding a corner) and long range(crouch spamming). Im not sure if changing its ttk is necessary however reducing its burst dmg is must. Almost 99 dmg with 2 bursts allows you kill anyone that has been previously tagged by any gun at almost any range

44 minutes ago, Kimotsi said:

Seeing all these posts about nerfing hvr makes no sense.In almost all shooters a high power sniper is almost always a one hit kill.No one ever complains about it

I disagree, yes other games have 1 shot snipers but mostly for headshots and those games usually have faster ttk to start with. If you want to compare it to fortnite that game has lots of cover that you can make yourself as well as sniper rifles are projectile based in oppose to all other weapon being hitscan. HVR in its current form is bad for APB meta and neede radical changes.

[MrChan 337]

The N-HVR in this game right now is utter nonsense. This isn't a case of "git gud MrChan you big noob", this is a case of I took it out for a couple of rounds in FC during the week, having not used it at all in months, and was instantly lethal at all ranges. That should not be possible in this game.

 

As mentioned by a couple of people, it's too easy to go from having your secondary out to pulling off an accurate shot, or at least an accurate enough shot, with the N-HVR. That effectively bypasses the mobility limitation of the weapon. That limitation needs to be put back in. Increasing the equip time, (possibly disable 3PS on it) and increasing the time it takes to zoom in and for the accuracy to reset after moving might do it. I'd say try that for the time being, and then after a couple of months look at whether the damage needs to be examined.

[Lign 361]

1 hour ago, iPlumbum said:

Ntec - Less ammo per mag / range nerf / damage drop off nerf 

Obir - Damage nerf / Higher TTK

HVR - Remove QS

 

CQC weapons have their own niche and different styles to use them properly.

 

Yukon - a duplicate of what the Mac 10 secondary used to be, you shouldn't be allowed to feel as safe with a secondary as you do with a primary. When I think secondary, I am thinking Last resort / Finisher weapon, Granted some are used for different loadouts i.e. an smg with a joker pistol etc for that extra range. Running around with a yukon etc and killing people like its a primary smg is ridiculous.

 

Macro users - Anti cheat needs to be able to detect and ban Macro users, especially for Obeya FBW pistol users but also semi automatic weapons in general.

If obir would be 4 burst to kill than it would be a shlt gun, I think they need to reduce the speed of bullets per burst or reduce accuracy by increasing default bloom.

What about Yukon: It's op yes and needs to be nerfed but in apb almost all secondaries can make you feel as safe as you do with a primary. Fbw/45ap/rfp, all these 2ndaries can beat most of primaries if not all of them

[wibsey 91]

we do I keep seeing jumpshot scout, like we can't do it now? lol

[Jexxe 2]

The game in its current state is probably the most balanced it has ever been. I cant even think of a gun that desperately needs tweaking. Any changes would have to undergo extensive testing and community feedback.

[AgentWatson 85]

1 minute ago, Panorama said:

The game in its current state is probably the most balanced it has ever been. I cant even think of a gun that desperately needs tweaking. Any changes would have to undergo extensive testing and community feedback.

I would be fine with that a community test environment district set up for a dedicated subset of people. I'm just wondering if Little Orbit would be fine with that idea. 

[Kimotsi 41]

35 minutes ago, MrChan said:

As mentioned by a couple of people, it's too easy to go from having your secondary out to pulling off an accurate shot, or at least an accurate enough shot, with the N-HVR. That effectively bypasses the mobility limitation of the weapon. That limitation needs to be put back in. Increasing the equip time, (possibly disable 3PS on it) and increasing the time it takes to zoom in and for the accuracy to reset after moving might do it. I'd say try that for the time being, and then after a couple of months look at whether the damage needs to be examined.

wouldn't that encourage even more camping?In FC people are behind cover all match defending the item,while aiming down sights in all exits.

Edited May 27, 2018 by Kimotsi
type-o

[DouglasFalcon 125]

Most Legendary weapons need to be revamped a little bit.
Hazardous, Anubis, EOL series, Reaper... and the list goes on.
Most of them feel like extremely expensive clown weapons at the current state, and there's a massive gap between the "bad" Legendaries and the "good" ones.
I'm not saying every Legendary should be Yukon-like good, but dude Reaper is a straight downgrade to Sitting Duck while clearly being the coolest looking sniper out there.

 

Please, give these weapons some love LittleOrbit!

 

 

Also buff Agrotech DMR I wanna stun people with it

[ninetenduh 40]

2 minutes ago, DouglasFalcon said:

Most Legendary weapons need to be revamped a little bit.
Hazardous, Anubis, EOL series, Reaper... and the list goes on.
Most of them feel like extremely expensive clown weapons at the current state, and there's a massive gap between the "bad" Legendaries and the "good" ones.
I'm not saying every Legendary should be Yukon-like good, but dude Reaper is a straight downgrade to Sitting Duck while clearly being the coolest looking sniper out there.

 

Please, give these weapons some love LittleOrbit!

 

 

Also buff Agrotech DMR I wanna stun people with it

 

 

You kind of understood what Legendaries are just to throw that away, they are supposed to be gimmick Weapons. Not straight up better.

[DouglasFalcon 125]

2 minutes ago, ninetenduh said:

 

You kind of understood what Legendaries are just to throw that away, they are supposed to be gimmick Weapons. Not straight up better.

*Looks at FFA, Volcano, Nano and Ursus*

Oh yeah u're right I didn't notice

[Excalibur! 207]

No, no this again...

[ninetenduh 40]

2 minutes ago, DouglasFalcon said:

*Looks at FFA, Volcano, Nano and Ursus*

Oh yeah u're right I didn't notice

FFA is a Reskin, Volcano is not straight up better, The OSMAW still does more Damage per Shot and has more range. Nano's can be acquired in-game, rare but they can and most of the time the nano isn't even better and the Ursus is Vastly worse than a Normal Ntec at literally any range. So, come again?