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5 minutes ago, 23k said:
14 minutes ago, UubeNubeh DaWog said:
Smarter = Slower?

Why move fast when you die in 1-3 bullets? Cant aim while running.
You can still move fast and be smart about it, nades wont allow you to corner camp for long.
Move fast where? Not towards an objective.
Nades dont allow you to camp now??
 
4 minutes ago, CookiePuss said:

How am I the first one to realize we are being trolled?

Definitely not the first. Look at all those no longer posting,

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4 minutes ago, Slickmund said:
Oh surely you can, just think about every step of your static animation and plan accordingly. I mean you have to be smart when moving like a pvc tube through the city now that everyone can one shot you with whatever weapon at whatever range because that is balanced.

@CookiePuss If it's a troll thread, its a good one. Lacks comedy though since the absurdity of headshotting in APB is more stupid than absurd in a funny way.
If you leave yourself in the open and get smoked for it then that's your problem.

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Ok. I've read through most the discussion here.

There are several issues with adding headshots in this game, most of which have been explained already. However, I feel that some of the points have been misunderstood by you @23k.

1. The map design. Presently, getting from place to place orders varying levels of cover, from abundant to scarce. Especially in the park and wider roads. Having headshots be a one shot would make any breaks from cover practically impossible, as more experienced players will just pick you off before you can make a move or complete the run to cover. Even if you factor in everyone using cars to get ANYWHERE that doesn't have cover, this still doesn't resolve the problem. A well organised team with ranged weapons, especially in areas which overlook an open zone with an objective in, will have a huge advantage.

2. Weapons. Headshots will make all long ranged and precise weapons have an incredibly large advantage over the rest. Most of the precision weapons have 60+m effective range. The result? CQC might almost die out, resulting on the use of highly accurate pistols such as the RFP to dispatch close range opponents.

3. Grenades. You know, it wouldn't matter what you do to grenades. You have to partially reveal yourself for a short amount of time to throw the grenade at the opponent. Good players will be able to pick that player off before the grenade is thrown, or with enough time to move out of the way. Furthermore, how do you propose to counter players perched on a roof 80+m away? You certainly can't use normal grenades. The OPGL and OSMAW/AAEPD maybe, but that leaves you susceptible to anyone else taking shots at you.

Conversely, if you make grenades one hit kill, what's to stop people from spamming them even more at every corner they can see and reach?

4. Objectives. A lot of objectives can take roughly 10 seconds to complete. During this time, you're stationary. Sure, you can move off if being shot at or you spot someone early, but what about those moments where you don't spot them and they get that headshot on you? Well, your team is down one player and you're also off the point.

I was tempted to talk about random headshots occurring when the accuracy is low, but that doesn't really factor in. It's just be another random event that could win you a firefight if you luck out.

I don't feel like you've thought this suggestion through enough and weighed up all the problems this would cause.

Also, random headshots and people consistently headshotting with a weapon only available on armas would convince newer players that the game is p2w. This change would not affect that mentality at all.

Edited by Kempington

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21 minutes ago, Kempington said:

@23k
I don't feel like you've thought this suggestion through enough and weighed up all the problems this would cause.
 

Sum of the whole thread from the first post.

I didn't want the thread to end so fast. Oh well.

Even if you changed bullet mechanics from hitscan to physical objects to help with kill times, after everything else it would just become another fps clone. Edited by UubeNubeh DaWog

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5 hours ago, 23k said:
1) You choose where you spawn you act like every player is a hacker that knows everyones position, you act like every player is going to insta kill everybody with a headshot as soon as you spawn, What you're describing most of the time are hackers, you can move through open areas quite easily and not get seen, unless  you're one of those player who just run in to the open space and gets killed, This will actually make you think before doing something now everybody just rushes like rambo with no real consequences. You're really paranoid why are you BANNED? didn't you and Cookie got banned in the past?
2) Listen they're going to buff and nerf guns either way so it's not that big of a deal.
3) Again you think everybody will hs you the second you come, use vehicles to protect yourself let your mates cover you lets say if your mate gets hs'd while protecting you jump back and get to cover and take care of the problem.
4) Again you can choose where you spawn you're talking like the enemy has wallhacks and aim and as soon as you spawn he's gonig to insta kill your whole team. Everybody can choose where to spawn at a different place and there is 99% of the time an npc car around you for you to take and move to objective.
5) Low Yields are not that big of a deal and not game breaking, i already said remove percs because they hold no real value to the game.
6) That is something you both will able to do, it will come down to who is better but if you can't get him you can use your nade to move him out and then get the shot.

Nade launcher would be the best thing to get rid of campers it will force campers to move if not they'll get killed. So it will actually make nade launcher more useful.

Headshots will make the combat more advanced,  you will have less chance of survival if you run like a clown in the in the middle of of free space with no cover only unexperienced players do that in the first place.
On top of that it will make the teamwork more powerful while you run one of your mates could keep firing to distract the enemy while you get to cover and you can do the same for him.
unreal, it’s like you don’t even play the same game

since we’re getting to the point where you just call cheats because you ran out of actual arguments i think we can safely say this topic is done

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Here's a crazy idea, if you don't find APB fun then why are you here and why are you playing it? Nobody is forcing you.

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Remove everything but Snubnose and blowtorch.  100% would make the game more fun 

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6 minutes ago, Kempington said:

Ok. I've read through most the discussion here.

There are several issues with adding headshots in this game, most of which have been explained already. However, I feel that some of the points have been misunderstood by you @23k.

1. The map design. Presently, getting from place to place orders varying levels of cover, from abundant to scarce. Especially in the park and wider roads. Having headshots be a one shot would make any breaks from cover practically impossible, as more experienced players will just pick you off before you can make a move or complete the run to cover. Even if you factor in everyone using cars to get ANYWHERE that doesn't have cover, this still doesn't resolve the problem. A well organised team with ranged weapons, especially in areas which overlook an open zone with an objective in, will have a huge advantage.

2. Weapons. Headshots will make all long ranged and precise weapons have and incredibly large advantage over the rest. Most of the precision weapons have 60+m effective range. The result? CQC might almost die out, resulting on the use of highly accurate pistols such as the RFP to dispatch close range opponents.

3. Grenades. You know, it wouldn't matter what you do to grenades. You have to partially reveal yourself for a short amount of time to throw the grenade at the opponent. Good players will be able to pick that player off before the grenade is thrown, or with enough time to move out of the way. Furthermore, how do you propose to counter players perched on a roof 80+m away? You certainly can't use normal grenades. The OPGL and OSMAW/AAEPD maybe, but that leaves you susceptible to anyone else taking shots at you.

Conversely, if you make grenades one hit kill, what's to stop people from spamming them even more at every corner they can see and reach?

4. Objectives. A lot of objectives can take roughly 10 seconds to complete. During this time, you're stationary. Sure, you can move off if being shot at or you spot someone early, but what about those moments where you don't spot them and they get that headshot on you? Well, your team is down one player and you're also off the point.

I was tempted to talk about random headshots occurring when the accuracy is low, but that doesn't really factor in. It's just be another random event that could win you a firefight if you luck out.

I don't feel like you've thought this suggestion through enough and weighed up all the problems this would cause.

Also, random headshots and people consistently headshotting with a weapon only available on armas would convince newer players that the game is p2w. This change would not affect that mentality at all.

1. You make it seem like it's a game breaker. Players will adapt and find a way to maneuver through the map without getting smoked, headshots will rise the stakes that is true but it will make the game play more interesting you all seem to forget that both players will have 50/50 chance of killing each other it will come down to timing, execution and skill it would also make team play more valube because like i said one of your mates could create openings for you by covering fire to allow you to move through the map. On top of that everybody can change weapons in the game at any given time to adapt to the mission and the opponents.

2. That what makes them long ranged weapons they have the advantage in the long range but all combat wont be always in the long range it will go every way from long range to mid range to CQC. N-tec will still have a high chance to outplay hvr at mid ranges, shotguns for example will still destroy hvr and other long ranged weapons at close range CQC will never die man. If you think a pistol will able to outpreform a weapon deisgned for CQC then that's a problem that should be fixed either way regardless of headshots. That's the devs that didn't think this through and decided to put broken gun just so they could sell more joker boxes.

3. To throw a nade it doesn't require for you to expose yourself drastically enough to get smoked but if you do actually face that problem your mates could cover fire for you while you throw the nade everything comes down you, your mates and timing. Everything is doable same thing with osmaw you take the shot and have your mates cover fire you, even good opgl players can do something about it while rarely exposing themselves to the shots.
 
4. You don't spot an enemy it falls on you and your mates. Similar thing to CSGO when you plant or defuse the bomb you're a stationary target it falls on your mates to watch your back while you handle your business. There are two options wipe the enemies and do the objective or try to test your luck by doing the objective while the enemies bullets fly above your head but it all comes down to you and your mates choices on how you all going to handle your missions.

If you luck out you luck out things happen, but the thing is, it would give a new player more cofidence to go toe to toe against experienced player simply because some of the other games that the new APB player plays and the headshost skill that he developed from other games could get him by in APB either way he will have a higher chance to fight back you know how they say don't let a scared fighter become a brave fighter because when he gets brave and confident he ain't going back to being scared and he is going to preform better sometims you have to give new players that fighting chance show them that they could go with the big boys that's how they develop a joy out of playing and competeting against other players and it urges them to get better. Pay2win wouldn't be much of a problem for new players simply because you will be able to headshot anybody with every weapon and every weapon will have a fighting chance.

 
37 minutes ago, BXNNXD said:
unreal, it’s like you don’t even play the same game

since we’re getting to the point where you just call cheats because you ran out of actual arguments i think we can safely say this topic is done
Correct me if im wrong didn't you get banned for hacking? If so then anything that you say holds no real value.

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Another thing is adding the abilty to deliver a lethal shot to each other while in combat basically you both land your shots if it happens to be lethal you both die. I've had quite few encounters where i had the enemy in my sight we both had low health i needed one shot to finsih him, i heard that shot going out of my gun i now i manged to pull the trigger but since the other player landed first he killed me that's the problem it should of been double murder i should of killed him and took him to grave with me that's the thing that really sits on my mind it should be fixed.

8 minutes ago, CookiePuss said:

OP right now...
H3s97Rd.gif

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2 minutes ago, 23k said:
1. You make it seem like it's a game breaker. Players will adapt and find a way to maneuver through the map without getting smoked, headshots will rise the stakes that is true but it will make the game play more interesting you all seem to forget that both players will have 50/50 chance of killing each other it will come down to timing, execution and skill it would also make team play more valube because like i said one of your mates could create openings for you by covering fire to allow you to move through the map. On top of that everybody can change weapons in the game at any given time to adapt to the mission and the opponents.

2. That what makes them long ranged weapons they have the advantage in the long range but all combat wont be always in the long range it will go every way from long range to mid range to CQC. N-tec will still have a high chance to outplay hvr at mid ranges, shotguns for example will still destroy hvr and other long ranged weapons at close range CQC will never die man. If you think a pistol will able to outpreform a weapon deisgned for CQC then that's a problem that should be fixed either way regardless of headshots. That's the devs that didn't think this through and decided to put broken gun just so they could sell more joker boxes.

3. To throw a nade it doesn't require for you to expose yourself drastically enough to get smoked but if you do actually face that problem your mates could cover fire for you while you throw the nade everything comes down you, your mates and timing. Everything is doable same thing with osmaw you take the shot and have your mates cover fire you, even good opgl players can do something about it while rarely exposing themselves to the shots.
 
4. You don't spot an enemy it falls on you and your mates. Similar thing to CSGO when you plant or defuse the bomb you're a stationary target it falls on your mates to watch your back while you handle your business. There are two options wipe the enemies and do the objective or try to test your luck by doing the objective while the enemies bullets fly above your head but it all comes down to you and your mates choices on how you all going to handle your missions.

If you luck out you luck out things happen, but the thing is, it would give a new player more cofidence to go toe to toe against experienced player simply because some of the other games that the new APB player plays and the headshost skill that he developed from other games could get him by in APB either way he will have a higher chance to fight back you know how they say don't let a scared fighter become a brave fighter because when he gets brave and confident he ain't going back to being scared and he is going to preform better sometims you have to give new players that fighting chance show them that they could go with the big boys that's how they develop a joy out of playing and competeting against other players and it urges them to get better. Pay2win wouldn't be much of a problem for new players simply because you will be able to headshot anybody with every weapon and every weapon will have a fighting chance.

 
1) every single road is impossible to cross on foot without exposing yourself, there’s no 50/50 chance because whoever shoots first gets a kill

2) long range weapons are currently balanced because they have a high ttk for cqc, adding headshots bypasses that balancing 

3)just the fact that you now require multiple people to push a corner shows how insanely low headshots put the skill floor for the defending player

4) in a 3rd person game with a 100m range it’s often impossible to see an hvr until they take the first shot (which now coincidentally will kill out because lol headshots) and this isn’t csgo where wiping a team means you automatically win the match - wiping a player 90m from the objective 8/10 times means he’s going to be back before you can get to the objective

this isn’t going to help new players or bad players at all, because of how game knowledge (which you clearly lack) allows you to predict things like spawns and pushes and grenade timing, new players are just going to get stomped harder and faster than ever before and veterans are going to be able to wipe entire teams by themselves far more often

fyi, you still haven’t offered any suggestions for reworking the green character mods so that headshot meta doesn’t destroy them

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2 minutes ago, 23k said:

 

No no no... you are doing it all wrong.
First off, use a gif.
Second, make it funny.
Here, like this...
8PnBuWi.gif

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Just now, CookiePuss said:
No no no... you are doing it all wrong.
First off, use a gif.
Second, make it funny.
Here, like this...
8PnBuWi.gif
It's ironic that picture that you posted fits you a lot you got 4293 posts about nothing but bs and you have a tag "totally not a troll' so again there's nothing left to say to you.

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I feel like you think that adding headshots will make it 50/50 in a firefight on who will win.

It won't. Not even remotely close.

Inexperienced players will get destroyed left, right and centre. Their inherent lack of map knowledge, reaction times, lower frame rates, lesser teamplay will make the gap between these skill levels even greater. If anything, you'll be making it easier for more experienced players to stomp on silvers and lesser experienced players by giving them a one shot capability.

The map IS relevant. That's why so many small tweaks and changes are made to the maps in CS:GO, the game you like to frequently refer to for these changes.

Furthermore, this is a 3rd person shooter game. Corner hugging and using the 3rd person camera to line up your shots before presenting yourself will be easy.

I know you may have quite a bit of experience with CS:GO, but this game does NOT play like it at all. There is far more movement and mobility in this game in comparison. It has a more arcade feel, as opposed to CS:GO's more methodical approach. Trying to incorporate some of the shooting mechanics from CS:GO will not work in a game as different as this.


Furthermore, you rely your argument on one fact, teamwork. That would require a lot of co-ordination and timing. So.... what about the players who play solo and can't get that co-ordination from Joe shmoe? You see, Joe has no mic, plays at 15fps and doesn't really read the in-game team chat or give a damn who his teammates are. Hell, he doesn't even realise a mission is going on right now, he's just following the icons on the screen.

Sound familiar? It should, that's a caricature of the average player in this game. It's exagerrated, but the point still stands. Unless you specifically ask (which quite a few players don't), you won't be grouping up and using communication. These changes will just annoy players more and won't necessarily encourage teamwork in the way you expect.

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2 minutes ago, 23k said:
It's ironic that picture that you posted fits you a lot you got 4293 posts about nothing but bs and you have a tag "totally not a troll' so again there's nothing left to say to you.
Worst part is, this isnt even my first forum account.
dEwyEf8.gif

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7 minutes ago, Kempington said:

I feel like you think that adding headshots will make it 50/50 in a firefight on who will win.

It won't. Not even remotely close.

Inexperienced players will get destroyed left, right and centre. Their inherent lack of map knowledge, reaction times, lower frame rates, lesser teamplay will make the gap between these skill levels even greater. If anything, you'll be making it easier for more experienced players to stomp on silvers and lesser experienced players by giving them a one shot capability.

The map IS relevant. That's why so many small tweaks and changes are made to the maps in CS:GO, the game you like to frequently refer to for these changes.

Furthermore, this is a 3rd person shooter game. Corner hugging and using the 3rd person camera to line up your shots before presenting yourself will be easy.

I know you may have quite a bit of experience with CS:GO, but this game does NOT play like it at all. There is far more movement and mobility in this game in comparison. It has a more arcade feel, as opposed to CS:GO's more methodical approach. Trying to incorporate some of the shooting mechanics from CS:GO will not work in a game as different as this.


Furthermore, you rely your argument on one fact, teamwork. That would require a lot of co-ordination and timing. So.... what about the players who play solo and can't get that co-ordination from Joe shmoe? You see, Joe has no mic, plays at 15fps and doesn't really read the in-game team chat or give a damn who his teammates are. Hell, he doesn't even realise a mission is going on right now, he's just following the icons on the screen.

Sound familiar? It should, that's a caricature of the average player in this game. It's exagerrated, but the point still stands. Unless you specifically ask (which quite a few players don't), you won't be grouping up and using communication. These changes will just annoy players more and won't necessarily encourage teamwork in the way you expect.

Every pro was once a noob. Headshots won't ruin the game it will spice it up plain and simple.
Another thing is adding the abilty to deliver a lethal shot to each other while in combat basically you both land your shots if it happens to be lethal you both die. I've had quite few encounters where i had the enemy in my sight we both had low health i needed one shot to finsih him, i heard that shot going out of my gun i now i manged to pull the trigger but since the other player landed first he killed me that's the problem it should of been double murder i should of killed him and took him to grave with me that's the thing that really sits on my mind it should be fixed.  Edited by 23k

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Ok. Explain, without using teamwork buzzwords and assumed 50/50 chance (which it really won't be), how headshots will spice things up. You can only be so cautious and check so many angles before getting domed at an angle you can't predict or a random grenade thrown in over a wall 60m away.

How will this help new players even the playing field, when the super experienced will have access to the same tools?

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2 minutes ago, 23k said:
Every pro was once a noob. Headshots won't ruin the game it will spice it up plain and simple.
Another thing is adding the abilty to deliver a lethal shot to each other while in combat basically you both land your shots if it happens to be lethal you both die. I've had quite few encounters where i had the enemy in my sight we both had low health i needed one shot to finsih him, i heard that shot going out of my gun i now i manged to pull the trigger but since the other player landed first he killed me that's the problem it should of been double murder i should of killed him and took him to grave with me that's the thing that really sits on my mind it should be fixed. 
the difference is that with the current system lower skilled players still have a chance to kill higher skilled players because there’s a soft limit on how many people a single player can handle in a firefight

what new player is going to stick around to become a pro when they get instantly downed whenever they get within 100m of the objective? or when a higher skilled player can kill 4 new players in a single magazine? or when a high ranked player with low yields can dump 3 one hit kill grenades onto a team before a low ranked player can cook 2?

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Just now, Kempington said:

Ok. Explain, without using teamwork buzzwords and assumed 50/50 chance (which it really won't be), how headshots will spice things up. You can only be so cautious and check so many angles before getting domed at an angle you can't predict or a random grenade thrown in over a wall 60m away.

How will this help new players even the playing field, when the super experienced will have access to the same tools?

You see the problem is that you think everyone will kill you, it's not like that it comes down to you how you play the game you can prevent from being smoked and you can outplay your adversary where there's a will, there's a way, No matter the circumstances players will find a way to out play one another that in itself makes the combat a lot more interesting. It would still remain APB but it would become better.
3 minutes ago, Gentix said:

Add snow map ty)

Why not that could work.
5 minutes ago, BXNNXD said:
the difference is that with the current system lower skilled players still have a chance to kill higher skilled players because there’s a soft limit on how many people a single player can handle in a firefight

what new player is going to stick around to become a pro when they get instantly downed whenever they get within 100m of the objective? or when a higher skilled player can kill 4 new players in a single magazine? or when a high ranked player with low yields can dump 3 one hit kill grenades onto a team before a low ranked player can cook 2?
This is only applies if you're playing with zombies, real players would not face this problem.

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1 minute ago, 23k said:
You see the problem is that you think everyone will kill you, it's not like that it comes down to you how you play the game you can prevent from being smoked and you can outplay your adversary where there's a will, there's a way, No matter the circumstances players will find a way to out play one another that in itself makes the combat a lot more interesting. It would still remain APB but it would become better. Why not that could work.
it would slow the game down to ridiculous levels which is the opposite of what apb was designed for, if you want to play csgo go play csgo

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18 minutes ago, 23k said:
Every pro was once a noob. Headshots won't ruin the game it will spice it up plain and simple.
Another thing is adding the abilty to deliver a lethal shot to each other while in combat basically you both land your shots if it happens to be lethal you both die. I've had quite few encounters where i had the enemy in my sight we both had low health i needed one shot to finsih him, i heard that shot going out of my gun i now i manged to pull the trigger but since the other player landed first he killed me that's the problem it should of been double murder i should of killed him and took him to grave with me that's the thing that really sits on my mind it should be fixed. 
Literally the entire game, balancing, meta, and design is based off of the character's single hitbox. 
No. Do. Not. Bring. Headshots. To. This. Game.

If you really think this is a good suggestion, then please, go play the game, and actually learn the mechanics before you want to change them.

The reason the other player would kill you, since they shot first, but you didn't kill them is because of the way guns work in the game. Think of a laser. When this laser hits you, you die. But, the laser's button is the trigger. If they shoot you with the laser first, and you die, your laser doesn't count. Edited by Sergsininia

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Just now, BXNNXD said:
2 minutes ago, 23k said:
You see the problem is that you think everyone will kill you, it's not like that it comes down to you how you play the game you can prevent from being smoked and you can outplay your adversary where there's a will, there's a way, No matter the circumstances players will find a way to out play one another that in itself makes the combat a lot more interesting. It would still remain APB but it would become better. Why not that could work.
it would slow the game down to ridiculous levels which is the opposite of what apb was designed for, if you want to play csgo go play csgo
It won't slow down it would excel the combat to another level with smarter play styles.
Just now, Sergsininia said:
Literally the entire game, balancing, meta, and design is based off of the character's single hitbox. 
No. Do. Not. Bring. Headshots. To. This. Game.

If you really think this is a good suggestion, then please, go play the game, and actually learn the mechanics before you want to change them.
You got no valid arguments, only thing i get from you is you're scared of more advanced combat.

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2 minutes ago, 23k said:
 You got no valid arguments, only thing i get from you is you're scared of more advanced combat.
Name a valid argument to implement headshots in the game. You're just scared of the wonderfully intricate, and 10 years in the making system.

It works both ways mate.

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The thing that should be the main number 1 priority is adding the abilty to deliver a lethal shot to each other while in combat basically you both land your shots if it happens to be lethal you both die. I've had quite few encounters where i had the enemy in my sight we both had low health i needed one shot to finsih him, i heard that shot going out of my gun i now i manged to pull the trigger but since the other player landed first he killed me that's the problem it should of been double murder i should of killed him and took him to grave with me that's the thing that really sits on my mind it should be fixed.

1 minute ago, Sergsininia said:
Name a valid argument to implement headshots in the game. You're just scared of the wonderfully intricate, and 10 years in the making system.

It works both ways mate.
Read above i already posted the reason why it would work and should be implemented.

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