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TheMessiah

Lets Buff and not Nerf

what do you think?(read the topic first)  

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  1. 1. what do you think?(read the topic first)

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    • I dont like it
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    • I dont care
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Well its kinda late to say this now.

 

It makes no sense trying to balance all the guns in APB and the amount which has been added over the years is silly.

APB is a shooter but not a competitive shooter.

 

We used to have a fun meta but now its pretty dull compared to what we had, BUT people asked for it and LO delivered.

There's a reason why I used to be so vocal about about not nerfing the n-tec but yeah xd.

 

I think its fun that people cried for n-tec nerfs for years but then complain that the pop is droppin when the most popular and most fun gun in the game is changed to something that feels boring.

 

It always seems like most people think they've got the answer for how the meta should be but in reality it's not really how it is.

We've been through a lot of changes over the years and I don't think it would be too hard for someone to pick and choose from it to return the fun.

 

 

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On 1/16/2021 at 5:11 PM, LooneyTooonz said:

I'm more concerned with bringing back P5/N5 killing sprees.  Game was dead to me when they took this away.  Me and my group haven't played since this was taken away.

 

 

Notoriety used to multiply your final mission earnings. G1 changed it so it only affects takeouts and ram raiding. There was no longer a meaningful reward for holding P5/N5. It was also bias towards Enforcers. Enforcers needed more kills per level, They could slightly lower it by running over civilians, and reset to 0 by killing other enforcers. Criminals were paid to kill other criminals, and for a while, displayed as friendlies towards to N5 player.

 

If removing Notoriety was not an option, I would have made the following changes to the existing system:

  • Both factions increase at the same rate.
  • Both factions have the same multiplier (1.5x N4, 2x N5).
  • Mission rewards are multiplied by the notoriety multiplier.
  • You cannot increase or decrease notoriety by paying off or killing civilians. Only mission tasks affect it.
  • All players except teammates/group members are enemies. All players get paid for killing the P5/N5 regardless of faction.
  • Do not show N5/P5 on map and radar during a mission.
  • Team killing does not lower it.

 

That said, I'm glad it's gone. This isn't a single player game where you rank up and get placed against harder ai, this is a multiplayer shooter. You shouldn't be gimped just because you play better. I'm not saying we should get perks for playing better either, that would be equally as stupid.

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On 1/17/2021 at 10:25 PM, SquirrelFace said:

 

Notoriety used to multiply your final mission earnings. G1 changed it so it only affects takeouts and ram raiding. There was no longer a meaningful reward for holding P5/N5. It was also bias towards Enforcers. Enforcers needed more kills per level, They could slightly lower it by running over civilians, and reset to 0 by killing other enforcers. Criminals were paid to kill other criminals, and for a while, displayed as friendlies towards to N5 player.

 

If removing Notoriety was not an option, I would have made the following changes to the existing system:

 

  Hide contents

 

  • Both factions increase at the same rate.
  • Both factions have the same multiplier (1.5x N4, 2x N5).
  • Mission rewards are multiplied by the notoriety multiplier.
  • You cannot increase or decrease notoriety by paying off or killing civilians. Only mission tasks affect it.
  • All players except teammates/group members are enemies. All players get paid for killing the P5/N5 regardless of faction.
  • Do not show N5/P5 on map and radar during a mission.
  • Team killing does not lower it.

 

 

That said, I'm glad it's gone. This isn't a single player game where you rank up and get placed against harder ai, this is a multiplayer shooter. You shouldn't be gimped just because you play better. I'm not saying we should get perks for playing better either, that would be equally as stupid.

 

I play the game for fun, not rewards.  If I'm not having fun why would I play ?  And besides, what was more satisfying than hitting level 5 and going and shooting up Double B's or LeBoyce's.  It was the funnest part of the game.  Things can be left in the game that make it fun, you know the reason people play a game to begin with.

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They should be focussing on making the game more fun instead of nerfing. Bring back notoriety 5 and add more open world interactions.

 

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2 hours ago, LooneyTooonz said:

I play the game for fun, not rewards.  If I'm not having fun why would I play ?  And besides, what was more satisfying than hitting level 5 and going and shooting up Double B's or LeBoyce's.  It was the funnest part of the game.  Things can be left in the game that make it fun, you know the reason people play a game to begin with.

My suggestion still allows you to go grief people, if that's what you're into,

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Buffing is a bad solution, because if you Buff A you need to rebuff B-Z. And then 1-9 and A1-Z9 again and again....

 

Example:

Clotting Agent is broken OP.

99% of all players use it, also it is more easy to nerf Clotting Agent then to buff all other Mods (so you need to rework all weapons and game mechanics).

 

Less is somethimes more.

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1 hour ago, Todesklinge said:

Buffing is a bad solution, because if you Buff A you need to rebuff B-Z. And then 1-9 and A1-Z9 again and again....

 

Example:

Clotting Agent is broken OP.

99% of all players use it, also it is more easy to nerf Clotting Agent then to buff all other Mods (so you need to rework all weapons and game mechanics).

 

Less is somethimes more.

it really depends on the change, its not like every nerf can be performed in a perfect vacuum either - even something like the ntec that many people thought was too op getting nerfed ended up with several other ARs getting caught up in the rebalancing

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LO's heart is in the right place, but they fundamentally do not understand APB nor it's balancing and gunplay. They also seem to think Balance = fun, which really isn't the case, especially since APB is such an RNG based game to begin with. Which is a bit funny considering APB has one of the lowest and highest skill ceilings of any game i've played, as the difference between a 3k hour player and a 100 hour player is massive, but 2 3k hour players against eachother and it becomes clear how how much RNG places the win in ethier person's perspective. 

Here's a good example, the removal of jumpshooting from all but 1 AR that is actually viable, namely the misery. What did this really accomplish? Do we see les AR's or are they less effective? Not really, sure they're a bit worse in cqc, however even with jumpshooting you would do better in 8/10 situations with just using your secondary, there's a reason why the 45 and fbw was so favored with the ntec / far.

People said jumpshooting was to strong cqc, but this logic is so flawed for the simple reason that if you jump, your trajectory is completely predictable, you're putting yourself in a situation where you are a far easier target, then if you were to just dodge with a secondary. And for anyone that had a cqc gun and lost to someone with a 100% predictable and easily trackable jump, should just stop playing the game, especially since you could jumpshot during the PMG's prime days, and tbf, if you lost with any meta CQC gun against a jumping ntec or far, you shouldn't even be allowed to complain about said balance in the first place.

People used to make the claim that it made them too strong in cqc, yet I just don't see it, personally it was never an issue for me to beat, and it was very predictable when people would do it and that leaves us at fun vs balance.

Is there an argument to be made that it was a bit unbalanced as AR's wasn't intended to be used that way? Sure, atleast in the sense that it wasn't intentional, however the point still stands that in no circumstance, if you are skilled, should you get beaten over and over by jumping AR's, especially when you have a CQC based gun. And to that argument, there are many guns that are used in ways they aren't supposed to, yet they are still not OP. The SHAW can jumpshot better then an ntec, yet I don't hear people cry about it when you jump around corners despite the fact that it's technically not intended to be that way. 

So what happened when every AR lost their ability to jump? They are so much more boring to use, and tbh not even that much worse, they're just streamlined in their roles more, but gameplay wise they are just simply more boring. APB is a game about mobility, that's why so many stationary guns are usually pretty bad in comparison with mobile ones, and since the game is about mobility, we should treat it as such.

Also I find it ironic that everyone bitched about the NTEC, especially with its jumping, but now since every AR other then the misery has gotten that treatment we're basically in a situation where the ntec is yet again, king over all AR's, as now none can jumpshot except one, and even before that was the case the ntec was still king. Hell even the vobra got a jumpshot nerf, the cobra... one of the worst guns in the game, a fun gun sure, but really? its ability to jump was op? ok then...

 

But this is sadly what happens when idiots get to vote on how the game should be balanced, This is why the game should be balanced around the top players, not the other way around, as with most of our suggestions, it keeps balance and fun in mind.

Also if you're really that alien against jumpshooting, just go thru with one of the suggestions I heard once, make so that in order to jump with AR's, Rifles etc while adsing, must use HS3 otherwise they won't get a jump modifier while adsing. I would be fine with this as HS3 is the mainstray anyway.

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On 1/13/2021 at 5:29 AM, Flaws said:

the population dropped more and more

that happens regardless hen games becomes  old as APB is

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26 minutes ago, Fortune Runner said:

that happens regardless hen games becomes  old as APB is

True but... u can't deny that RP /old G1 did everything they could to kill APB 

Edited by HighSociety

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On 1/21/2021 at 1:28 PM, Todesklinge said:

Buffing is a bad solution, because if you Buff A you need to rebuff B-Z. And then 1-9 and A1-Z9 again and again....

 

Example:

Clotting Agent is broken OP.

99% of all players use it, also it is more easy to nerf Clotting Agent then to buff all other Mods (so you need to rework all weapons and game mechanics).

 

Less is somethimes more.

yeah thats why shooting some one 3 times and after 3 seconds again few times results no damage becuase hes already pumped up all health.. 
and they call it skillzz

Edited by EMilika

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On 1/26/2021 at 8:54 AM, EMilika said:

yeah thats why shooting some one 3 times and after 3 seconds again few times results no damage becuase hes already pumped up all health.. 
and they call it skillzz

Thats why i say "Remove Med Spray".

The Med Spray will kill the balance total.

 

Or Orbit add Poison Weapons to the game to break the Med Spray... but this is running in to a wrong way. I am thinking we dont need APB with a elemental System (ressistance/damage etc.) what some other games have.

 

But a few new ammo types can help to become more options for the weapons (by adjusting some possibilitys).

 

There are so much Re-Skin weapons, we dont need! This is just very confusing for all players. 

For example:

I have purchased the VAS Empire (LMG from Armas) + VAS Sword (Assault Rifle) and now the "Juggernaut Pack".

In the Pack there is a "Frenzy" Assault Rifle (reskin of VAS Sword Assault Rifle) and the TIC LMG (Reskin of VAS 2 Empire).

Both weapons i allready own... but there was no informations about this 😞

 

This is frustrating if weapons or mechanics are to equal to each other and there is to less informations about it. Same for Kevlar and Clotting Agent.

New Players maybe thinking "wow Kevlar gives me more health (protection)."

But in real, the Clotting Agent gived you much more bonuses without a penality. So your combat possibility is much more increased, compared to Kevlar or Flak Jacket.

 

Merged.

 

A good player with a bad weapons is well balanced against a bad player with a good weapons.

 

But if the good player use the good weapons and the bad player the bad weapons (because of missing informations), the situation is unbalanced and unfair. So there is a high chance the new player can left the game (maybe forever).

 

The "New APB" need more new players to refresh the community in the game. But if good players are dominate the new one (we have actually this problem), new players dont stay in the game and this issue repeats.

 

This is why the shop need a rework and my idea from the suggestion forum, about "Armas Weapon Upgrade System". This gives every player the safety to upgrade every (character/account bound) weapon in to another for just 50% of the new price.

If a weapon cost 2500 G1C for account bound, you can upgrade this to every other weapon you like. For just 1250 G1C (with 2500 as example).

 

The system gives more safety to all players, because you can not do a bad purchase in the shop, and its important the player spend money for the game! But if you like to support the game and you have purchased a bad weapon (there is no refund mechanic) you become more frustraded about this and you will avoid the make a new purchase again. I hope you can understand what i mean.

 

Game balance of weapons comes and go, but you whould like to have MORE from your purchased stuff from the Armas Store. Also safety! More information about the real mechanics for the weapons and a free testing area for all items in the Armas Shop.

+ a Guide to "how to use the weapon/stuff".

So new players can better understand what weapons are more friendly foe beginners etc.

 

This all gives more safteys... now we need to fix some of the unfriendly community to make APB greate again.

 

A Mentor System for beginners. You teach a new player how to play and both getting rewards at the end of the Mentor System. Its a Win-Win Situation for every side.

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On 1/13/2021 at 2:30 PM, GhosT said:

 

Buffing everything to the level of the N-TEC would be the exact opposite of making the meta more diverse.

 

I do agree that the weapon balance was near perfect before LO did all the balance changes.

 

Shotguns for example were the most balanced class before the LO shotgunning, with maybe the Shredder needing some love, And only a few weapons like the HVR, N-TEC, PMG and some others that needed changes.

Now roll back a little and undo all the unnecesary nerfs G1 did at one point with the introduction of curve mechanics that ruined many weapons like the NCR or FFA 'BullShark'.

That's what should've been done in my opinion, and not slightly touching a few weapons here and there. The AR-97 or R-2 for example received a couple tweaks to "buff" them, but their performance didn't change at all.

 

N-TEC is far from requiring much skill, it's literally just learning the tap fire rythm and you can spam it all day long up to marksman range.

The OCA received yet another unnecessary buff by G1, that I can agree with. However PMG or JG never received any actual buffs. And you do need other guns because they're solely CQC.

The HVR is problematic and probably won't ever be properly balanced as long as the Scout exists.

OBIR bolt timer was well needed for the insane damage output when combined with quickswitching. Though I'd rather adjust its damage values.

RFP is another prime example that received a buff it never needed and made it ridiculously overpowered, especially the Fang, which could've been called pay to win.

 

Still gotta say that APB became more enjoyable to play the way it is right now, I'd rather want pre-LO guns with slight adjustments though.

So I'm only going to nitpick one thing in this, but you're telling me the game is more enjoyable with the current gun balance, but then right away say you want pre-lo gun balance but with slight adjustments. Does that mean the game is more enjoyable in your opinion for others, but not yourself? Not sure what you meant exactly. I'm genuinely curious.

On 1/13/2021 at 4:07 PM, GhosT said:

 

I'm definitely not going to start argueing with you, don't worry. It'll get nowhere anyway, considering your questionable view on game health.

It's always funny when people think "lower skill level" is an argument, just shows how selfish someone thinks.

 

Either way, you can trust me on this - LO does listen and there's a bunch of community players sharing their thoughts and playtests upcoming changes, coming from all skill levels, even including "yours".

 

The population numbers go down because there hasn't been a single content update for almost a decade, only a few adjustments and smaller quality-of-life updates here and there like the trading system.

It has little to nothing to do with rebalancing things, maybe a handful of players who had their overperforming crutches taken away.

 

If anything, the fact that the game still has a playable playerbase after all this time just shows how big of a potential APB has.

Yes LO does listen, my issue is whom they listen to. The population issues have to do with a lack of content yes, not necessarily the gun changes. I'll agree there. Kinda hard to pump out content when they're focusing on an engine update. However, to address your last point about the population. It had that potential, I don't think it has it any longer. Though I do think the game could come back, but I don't think it will ever hit the true potential it once had.

 

Lower skill level is an issue when it comes to game balance though? It has nothing to do with being selfish. I don't want casual players/social warriors to have influence on gunplay. If anyone is going to help balance, it should be people that actually play it on a higher level, who have a better opinion. Not just one person, but multiple. The issue is, how many are left? I no longer play so I don't know who of the better players is still active, forgive me for that. 

All I'm trying to say is that I don't like gun balancing with casuals in mind. It ain't hearthstone man.

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After all the balance complains I think we all know what time it is...
5f280a796ffc3d0d4aa11a25cd66472d.png

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9 hours ago, Todesklinge said:

For example:

I have purchased the VAS Empire (LMG from Armas) + VAS Sword (Assault Rifle) and now the "Juggernaut Pack".

In the Pack there is a "Frenzy" Assault Rifle (reskin of VAS Sword Assault Rifle) and the TIC LMG (Reskin of VAS 2 Empire).

Both weapons i allready own... but there was no informations about this 😞

i feel like i should point out that this is completely wrong 

 

 the vas sw2 'empire'vas-r2 'sword's1-fa 'frenzy', and s1-tic 'rabid' are all unique guns - they are not reskins of each other

 

considering you own all 4 and have apparently used them i have no idea how you came to this conclusion, but i can only suggest that you get more familiar with the basic apb guns before you try tackling balance 

 

 

9 hours ago, Todesklinge said:

There are so much Re-Skin weapons, we dont need!

i also disagree with this, reskins are (imo) the best way to add new weapon content moving forward

 

its already challenging to balance the guns we have and adding more will only increase that challenge, meanwhile reskins allow for more customization potential with no effect on weapon balance

 

i do think the pricing (too expensive), organization (difficult to know what is a reskin and what isn't), and implementation (reskins should not count as unique weapons) all need an overhaul but reskins themselves should stay

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Whats the goal with nerfs? the creation of a meta so everyone can use the same weapon? killing diversity and a part of the population?

But then whats the point in buffing the rest? every weapon being balanced so people can have fun with the guns that they like and for some bought with real munies?

I think weapons should be balanced around the casual experience and fun. There are threats to seperate the news/ the casuals/ the tryhards and a "functional" matchmaking system.

In a game about customisation and where balancing seems to be a struggle I'd rather have reskins than under/over performing weapons.

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The Database is outdated!

 

If i compare both guns: Empire and Rabid, they are 1:1 equal, in damage etc.

Same for Frenzy and Sword, same damage etc.

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People who would consider the idea of all guns being buffed but would never want all HP to be lowered because that's a bad idea.

 

 

 

Edited by Cr0

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1 hour ago, Todesklinge said:

The Database is outdated!

 

If i compare both guns: Empire and Rabid, they are 1:1 equal, in damage etc.

Same for Frenzy and Sword, same damage etc.

they are not the same guns

 

in fact the vas empire and the vas sword are reskins of other guns (nssw and ntec respectively), so they cannot also be reskins of the rabid and frenzy 

 

i honestly have no idea how you can even think this, the difference between these gun is obvious as soon as you start shooting

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On 1/21/2021 at 9:33 AM, HighSociety said:

True but... u can't deny that RP /old G1 did everything they could to kill APB 

no one in their right mind will deny they did  that

 

as for buffing or nerfing can it be said either one is the correct solution  ?

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Hello,

This topic has been moved to the Game Suggestions section of our forums.

Thank you.

 

- Azukii

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