Pig is now useless

[RCooper 182]

Now thanks to the nerf u can only play pig with percs becuase now u cant combine it with stabba ccg becuase u need 3 shots + pig shot which in cqc agains jg,oca,pmg means dead

[Bellenettiel 232]

So a gun designed to finish off is doing its job, instead of carrying the entirety of the non-lethal line up?

[RCooper 182]

14 minutes ago, Bellenettiel said:

So a gun designed to finish off is doing its job, instead of carrying the entirety of the non-lethal line up?

Pig and stun grenades are the only things that make ltl somewhat be able to compete with lethal weapons,the non lethal "line up" is after all only two guns,now u are forced to use percs.

I guess i will have to get used to "perc noob" whispers now.

[vsb 6171]

laughs in unchanged fbw tg-8

[Bellenettiel 232]

15 minutes ago, RCooper said:

Pig and stun grenades are the only things that make ltl somewhat be able to compete with lethal weapons,the non lethal "line up" is after all only two guns,now u are forced to use percs.

I guess i will have to get used to "perc noob" whispers now.

So you mean to say, that the problem wasn't pig being nerfed but the rest being mediocre? 

[TheMessiah 430]

u know whats the positive-i cant see this 11 dislikes on ur post right now..

[Gateron 267]

Wait they removed JG PIG switch. PepeHands had fun with it while it lasted got me max role arrest.

[RCooper 182]

31 minutes ago, Bellenettiel said:

So you mean to say, that the problem wasn't pig being nerfed but the rest being mediocre? 

What i mean is that the sinergy between the ltl weapons now is broken due to the nerf.

 

[claude 223]

26 minutes ago, Bellenettiel said:

So you mean to say, that the problem wasn't pig being nerfed but the rest being mediocre? 

tbh i just dont understand the logic behind the recent pig nerf. pig/percing is, afaik, still really good after a change like this... and most people who use the pig are pig/percing. 

 

if they wanted to nerf it's quickswitching capabilities, then why not nerf the pigs equip time?

 

they said something about how the change will make people be more accurate with their percs, which is sorta stupid because it isnt hard to land a perc within it's 100% damage radius.

[Frosi 722]

Just now, RCooper said:

What i mean is that the sinergy between the ltl weapons now is broken due to the nerf.

 

The synergy still very much exists, it simply requires more skill and setup which results in a reasonable time to stun. 3 Shots of a CCG and then switching to a PIG still results in a faster time to stun than just using the CCG, its simply not a mechanic that results in very little player interaction anymore. 

[Bellenettiel 232]

4 minutes ago, claude said:

tbh i just dont understand the logic behind the recent pig nerf. pig/percing is, afaik, still really good after a change like this... and most people who use the pig are pig/percing. 

 

if they wanted to nerf it's quickswitching capabilities, then why not nerf the pigs equip time?

 

they said something about how the change will make people be more accurate with their percs, which is sorta stupid because it isnt hard to land a perc within it's 100% damage radius.

I assume they wanted to add a high risk, high reward to the combo. You only are aware of its lethality when you are on the other hand of it.

The point wasn't really nerfing quickswitching but rather embracing it. But then again, I am just playing devils advocate here.

 

Maybe they can buff the nonlethals afterwards to make up for this. Or god forbid, add new ones.

[claude 223]

10 minutes ago, Bellenettiel said:

I assume they wanted to add a high risk, high reward to the combo. You only are aware of its lethality when you are on the other hand of it.

The point wasn't really nerfing quickswitching but rather embracing it. But then again, I am just playing devils advocate here.

 

Maybe they can buff the nonlethals afterwards to make up for this. Or god forbid, add new ones.

idk, I feel like the only one that needs love is the TG8. NL9 is underrated, if only people used it more.

 

nerfing the pigs damage just destroys lethal/pig quickswitching. now the fastest way to stun is to pig/perc, period. i dont think landing a perc is really difficult or risky at all, aim it at their feet and as long as they're within 3m of the impact, the perc will stun.

Edited September 17, 2020 by claude

[vsb 6171]

3 minutes ago, claude said:

idk, I feel like the only one that needs love is the TG8

the tg-8 is basically just an fbw, its easily been the best ltl weapon since ever

[SkittyM 287]

2 hours ago, Gateron said:

Wait they removed JG PIG switch. PepeHands had fun with it while it lasted got me max role arrest.

Can only do it with the CSG/SG-21.  Really just the CSG.  Shot in the foot, but still walking.

[LilyRain 674]

3 hours ago, Frosi said:

The synergy still very much exists, it simply requires more skill and setup which results in a reasonable time to stun. 3 Shots of a CCG and then switching to a PIG still results in a faster time to stun than just using the CCG, its simply not a mechanic that results in very little player interaction anymore. 

It used to be faster by 0.4s, now it is faster by only 0.1s at perfect timing at 1 ms latency. So practically not faster at all for easily most people.

 

The PIG-nerf was overkill. Switching from CCG to PIG is now more risky with absolutely zero merits when using a CCG as a primary LTL weapon.

 

Unless CCG gets a buff in time-to-stun, this was a bad move.

[Noob_Guardian 418]

4 hours ago, Frosi said:

The synergy still very much exists, it simply requires more skill and setup which results in a reasonable time to stun. 3 Shots of a CCG and then switching to a PIG still results in a faster time to stun than just using the CCG, its simply not a mechanic that results in very little player interaction anymore. 

They really should have just halved perc stamina damage and put pig at 800-850 and called it a day. The fact that you can still pig n perc without issue, but it made primary LTL's using pig as a sidearm just that much worse says a lot.

3 hours ago, 404 said:

the tg-8 is basically just an fbw, its easily been the best ltl weapon since ever

TG-8 is much more similar to the OSCP. Least before the OSCP buffs

[wHisHi 206]

Waited for this post

[vsb 6171]

56 minutes ago, Noob_Guardian said:

They really should have just halved perc stamina damage and put pig at 800-850 and called it a day. The fact that you can still pig n perc without issue, but it made primary LTL's using pig as a sidearm just that much worse says a lot.

TG-8 is much more similar to the OSCP. Least before the OSCP buffs

yeah but it has the same stk and ttk/tts as the fbw, and because of the one less shot (compared to the ocsp) its more accurate overall

[LilyRain 674]

34 minutes ago, 404 said:

yeah but it has the same stk and ttk/tts as the fbw, and because of the one less shot (compared to the ocsp) its more accurate overall

But the TG-8 takes much longer to equip compared to the OCSP. 0.6s vs 0.35s is quite a lot, it over-offsets the ttk/tts difference.

 

OCSP also benefits from crouching by 30%, while TG-8 has a crouch-modifier of 1, meaning crouching with TG-8 does absolutely nothing.

Edited September 18, 2020 by LilyRain

[vsb 6171]

31 minutes ago, LilyRain said:

But the TG-8 takes much longer to equip compared to the OCSP. 0.6s vs 0.35s is quite a lot, it over-offsets the ttk/tts difference.

 

OCSP also benefits from crouching by 30%, while TG-8 has a crouch-modifier of 1, meaning crouching with TG-8 does absolutely nothing.

equip time can be mitigated or negated in a lot of circumstances where an extra stk/sts cant

 

actually never knew about the lack of a crouch modifier but i guess that goes to show how often i crouch with either gun, i dont see much point with their initial accuracy and 30m (ish) range  

[ShawLOL 50]

Pmg nerf wasn't nice at all

Edited September 22, 2020 by ShawLOL

[illgot 379]

8 hours ago, Bellenettiel said:

So a gun designed to finish off is doing its job, instead of carrying the entirety of the non-lethal line up?

The gun was originally designed to be an effective 10 meter range double tap stun.

 

Then when G1 took over they decreased lethal TTK and increased non lethal TTS.

 

Basically G1 gutted LTL and LO is continuing to make it useless.  The PIG has been useless against lethal since G1 nerfed it.  You had to be A LOT better than your opponents to use it effectively even with 1 shot doing 90% of a persons stamina.

I maxed out my cop role long long time ago so I no longer care about how effective LTL is versus lethal, but at least I put in the work and realize how broken and useless LTL has been since G1.

Edited September 18, 2020 by illgot

[Todesklinge 143]

Give the Pig 2 shots without to reload.

First hit on the front slowing down the enemys movement and firespeed!

So you can hit with the second shot much better.

 

 

One shot to stun if you hit your target from behind.

[Zolerox 564]

Was expecting them to nerf perc's stamina damage, Meh back to stun opgl + Oca don't blame me They nerfed my other method SPAM it is then.

[LilyRain 674]

1 hour ago, 404 said:

equip time can be mitigated or negated in a lot of circumstances where an extra stk/sts cant

 

actually never knew about the lack of a crouch modifier but i guess that goes to show how often i crouch with either gun, i dont see much point with their initial accuracy and 30m (ish) range  

Quality > Quantity: The number of circumstances where TG-8 can be better than OCSP matter not when OCSP would always triumph in a game where Players know what they are doing. Also ttk/tts superseeds stk/sts.

 

Case 1: Grenades Enabled (proper high-level play)

- An OCSP-player with Concussion Grenades would cook the grenade for 4 seconds, then follow up with a single shot to finish the job. OCSP requiring 0.35s to equip means the player can equip OCSP while the cooked grenade is flying, so there is virtually no extra time here. ttk for this player should be the practically the same as the time needed to prep the grenade, or 0s depending on the point of reference.

 

- A TG-8 player WITH a stun-grenade would also cook the grenade for 4 seconds, but TG-8 needs 0.6s to fire, most often exceeding the time needed by the OCSP player, which already is a clear loss (provided the stun-grenade doesn't land perfectly). Additionally, The OCSP can shoot twice before TG-8 gets to shoot once, so on top of losing the ability to disable cars, TG-8 still loses in an equal-effort/skill strat, which is not okay as skill should matter more. It gets much worse if the TG-8 player was using concussions to have more meaningful presence in a mission as the TG-8 requires 3 shots to stun with a Concussion. That's easily ~4.4s+.

 

Case 2: Grenades not used or not available

 

- Pure OCSP's total ttk is 1.49s (0.35s to equip, 1.14s to kill), whereas pure TG-8's time to stun is 1.6s (0.6s to equip, 1s to stun).

 

- Furthermore, OCSP is a lethal secondary, which will surely be accompanied by a lethal primary. Lethal primaries excel in both ttk and equip times compared to LTL-primaries, so that's already twice the edge in loadout effectiveness. By a big gap too. +2 points for Lethals, -1 LTL. That is quite a gap to cover and 9/10 won't happen in a high-level, premade meta-driven match.

------------------------------------------------------

It is like this because high-level players won't be running around with secondaries out before exhausting their primaries. The minor cases where one would prefer to run around with a secondary is if the primary weapon affects speed (e.g N-HVR and OSMAW). But then again, neither OCSP nor TG-8 would be chosen in this case either unless the player was trying to salvage some fun from APB.