ISSR-B Rework

[CookiePuss 5378]

10 hours ago, Motorola said:

LO doesnt want people using AV guns they are dumbing down the gameplay by just needing a conc nade to kill any car... this way any braindead player can kill any car.

Concs do 1108 damage, which means MORE cars can survive a conc now, rather than less.

 

[Rhexx 39]

4 hours ago, CookiePuss said:

Concs do 1108 damage, which means MORE cars can survive a conc now, rather than less.

 

1108/1150 isn't exactly good odds of surviving. All it takes is 1 bump on a wall or a couple rounds and the difference is negligible.

 

And people are still going to pick the 4x4 over the other 3 1150HP  cars  because the 4x4 doesn't handle like hot garbage

Edited August 19, 2020 by Rhexx

[CookiePuss 5378]

42 minutes ago, Rhexx said:

1108/1150 isn't exactly good odds of surviving. All it takes is 1 bump on a wall or a couple rounds and the difference is negligible.

 

And people are still going to pick the 4x4 over the other 3 1150HP  cars  because the 4x4 doesn't handle like hot garbage

Now that HBF 4x4 is only 977 HP Ive been driving other things, which I think was the point.

[PingOVER9000 189]

in my weak opinion, if u want to make the dog eara "anti-infantry" weapon, just removing it's hard damage, it doesnt make justice to the weapon andd who purchased it.

 

 Issr-b is in some case kinda inconsistent, at best decent, but lose to any good sniper weapon, buff a little more it, give less bloom or make STK from 4 to 3 ( sincerly I dont like a lot this last option, and not too sure for  the first one and we may just obtain a laser gun...), the 0.90 ttk doesnt mean nothing: the bloom, 4 shots per kill, slow fire rate, low modification slot,  damage drop off after 84/85m ask for a additional shot,  all togheter these are its malus and make it 2 step below other long range weapons such as HVR, Scout, Obir etc., they kill faster and are give better result because u have to track for 2/3 shots, u have also time for a additional shot in case u made a wrong shot, you dont have or very rarely this luxury with dog ear and opponent generally will kill you before you have this opportunity.

 

Or just make it simple, buff its hard damage a little comparing with the actual health of cars.

it wasnt OP before and nobody asked/ complained for ISSR-b versatility or unique.

 

On 8/18/2020 at 2:34 AM, Kempington said:

The ISSR-B prior to this was more versatile than an N-TEC

 

Your comparing has almost no sense, not because it's wrong, but because you remove completely what make different the ISSR-B than the rest.

The ntec got nerfed but still mantain its validity and worth for what it was designed, a middle range weapon.

 

The dog ear or wisp etc name reskin, struggle in past to find a validity, G1 decide at the end to bet adding more versatility against vehicles ( and against "infantry" later), removing it u make it lose total worth of how this weapon was at the end designed

 

 

23 hours ago, CookiePuss said:

On 8/18/2020 at 6:42 PM, PingOVER9000 said:

Anyone with a decent aim kill you before u land 2 shots midair and/ or quickswitch to secondary 

lol true

I dont know if smile for the answer or think (just sometimes and only some of ) SPCT team (and I wasnt referring  to Cookie but others ) think they are so better players and have the knowledge of some apb mechanics so the opinion of others count nothing.

 

The last patch was nice (and it's nice) because for what I understood LO let SPCT team put the hands up more than usual, but it's not bad comparing own thoughts with others and make some little  rectification somewhere, what @Rhexx wrote it has sense and  worth to be listen.

 

Bye

Edited August 19, 2020 by PingOVER9000

[illgot 379]

Even when the dog ear did a lot of hard damage it wasn't that great against high health vehicles.  The only reason to use it was hanging outside a window in a car chase if you didn't like to use car surfer.

 

I bought the weapon for that hard damage, it's fine against silvers using lower health cars but not something I would ever try to win a mission with.

Edited August 19, 2020 by illgot

[Motorola 107]

1 hour ago, CookiePuss said:

Now that HBF 4x4 is only 977 HP Ive been driving other things, which I think was the point.

hbf is unusable and any car hit by a conc in a mission will blow up shortly after if not instantly/near instant.

 

there is no need for alig or any other av car killer gun

 

I also want to add this after thinking about this a bit..,.

 

they added health to all these cars and thats your selling point "oh now more cars can survive a conc" but another guy points out that 50 more hp isnt really "surviving a conc" right?

 

so does LO/SPCT actually think that adding a little more hp to these cars is whats going to make people start driving them? they handle terrible this is why no one uses them.... try using a bishada or normal vegas in a real mission with all high skilled players. you wont get anywhere you will always be getting blown up. 

 

after this patch i dont see anyone using bishada or normal vegas other than silvers. people are STILL using espacio and 4x4 vegas... and now i see more coywolf (cant tank grenades btw) and also fresno (the new espacio)

Edited August 19, 2020 by Motorola

[Jilleroo 349]

2 hours ago, CookiePuss said:

Now that HBF 4x4 is only 977 HP Ive been driving other things, which I think was the point.

Why? Just do what I do and replace HBF with Fast Fix 3 or whatever it's called.

[CookiePuss 5378]

2 hours ago, PingOVER9000 said:

I dont know if smile for the answer or think (just sometimes and only some of ) SPCT team (and I wasnt referring  to Cookie but others ) think they are so better players and have the knowledge of some apb mechanics so the opinion of others count nothing.

 

The last patch was nice (and it's nice) because for what I understood LO let SPCT team put the hands up more than usual, but it's not bad comparing own thoughts with others and make some little  rectification somewhere, what Rhexx wrote it has sense and  worth to be listen.

 

There are a lot of misconceptions about the SPCT. We have a wide range of skill represented in the team, and while some members are very good, there is a wide range of abilities and reasons for playing represented. On top of that feedback from the forums is also a big part of the decisions being made.

This was just a first go, Im sure balance will continue from this point forward.

1 hour ago, Motorola said:

hbf is unusable and any car hit by a conc in a mission will blow up shortly after if not instantly/near instant.

 

there is no need for alig or any other av car killer gun

 

I also want to add this after thinking about this a bit..,.

 

they added health to all these cars and thats your selling point "oh now more cars can survive a conc" but another guy points out that 50 more hp isnt really "surviving a conc" right?

 

so does LO/SPCT actually think that adding a little more hp to these cars is whats going to make people start driving them? they handle terrible this is why no one uses them.... try using a bishada or normal vegas in a real mission with all high skilled players. you wont get anywhere you will always be getting blown up. 

 

after this patch i dont see anyone using bishada or normal vegas other than silvers. people are STILL using espacio and 4x4 vegas... and now i see more coywolf (cant tank grenades btw) and also fresno (the new espacio)

It will take a while for the new Meta to settle in.

Feedback is important, nothing is set in stone.

35 minutes ago, EvaPooh said:

Why? Just do what I do and replace HBF with Fast Fix 3 or whatever it's called.

Ive been trying both the Fresno and the normal Vegas... takes some getting used to.

[Jilleroo 349]

13 minutes ago, CookiePuss said:

Ive been trying both the Fresno and the normal Vegas... takes some getting used to.

I've been running a Coywolf(?) or whatever it's called and a shotgun, super fun, lol.

 

Cute little car gets in there really easily and then I just blast them.

[a Pair of Socks 126]

damn they nerfed my op gun finally. fuck

[Noob_Guardian 417]

On 8/16/2020 at 2:16 PM, 404 said:

a full speed dmr av would have 2 significant niches while the anubis doesn't really even have one, idk if that's a valid comparison

Except the point is that people complained even about ISSR because it was 4 hit ko, despite having the FASTEST TTK for a sniper ingame even with the broken hard damage on it.

 

DMR AV as a mobile sniper wouldn't be balanced.  Most weapons in APB are categorized into AV or AP. Each having drawbacks, mobility is one of them. When you get a hybrid like the ISSR-B, you create balance issues because it's good at everything, ESPECIALLY when it's in a sniper role and can reach 100m with no issues. Hence why AV snipers like the DMR lacks mobility. It wouldn't be balanced to have a scout AV-DMR that 2 shots at 88m with fast sprint speed. That's why the Anubis sucks in comparison to the regular DMR, because it can't 2 hit, and even with decent hard damage people would call it trash because it's not great AP.

 

Most AV weapons do not function great as AP (excluding explosives because... well.. explosives), the only real AV weapons are the DMR, SWARM, and the ALIG. With the SWARM" being in middle of both AV and AP, being decent in both, but not excelling in either. DMR AV also functions well as AP, as the hard damage is mostly just a decent bonus but it's not incredibly TTK effecient on its own, while the best AV weapon without team assistance is the ALIG. (The best AV weapons are imo ALIG and OSMAW/Volcano)

On 8/16/2020 at 3:01 PM, Cr0 said:

But those are not AV weapons.

Saying DMR has lower TTK than HVR is a typical example on something that doesn't translate from numbers to actual usability.

Except for the fact that using DMR, and even the Oblivion which is 4 hit, I find myself out ttking HVRs. It's not "that" hard to do. From my experience it does translate, though often times it's a very close matchup.

4 hours ago, Motorola said:

hbf is unusable and any car hit by a conc in a mission will blow up shortly after if not instantly/near instant.

 

there is no need for alig or any other av car killer gun

 

I also want to add this after thinking about this a bit..,.

 

they added health to all these cars and thats your selling point "oh now more cars can survive a conc" but another guy points out that 50 more hp isnt really "surviving a conc" right?

 

so does LO/SPCT actually think that adding a little more hp to these cars is whats going to make people start driving them? they handle terrible this is why no one uses them.... try using a bishada or normal vegas in a real mission with all high skilled players. you wont get anywhere you will always be getting blown up. 

 

after this patch i dont see anyone using bishada or normal vegas other than silvers. people are STILL using espacio and 4x4 vegas... and now i see more coywolf (cant tank grenades btw) and also fresno (the new espacio)

To be honest, I stopped using a lot of cars because a conc 1 hit them.... I still use a normal vegas, and don't get blown very often. Hell, using growl I rarely got blown up but it's accel is off the charts good lol. Then again I don't play dumb so I generally don't get blown up in it.

 

And a few people like me still have old fresno's lol. I used it cause explosive tank and it was/is hard to shoot under.

Edited August 20, 2020 by Noob_Guardian

[SkittyM 287]

1 hour ago, Noob_Guardian said:

When you get a hybrid like the ISSR-B, you create balance issues because it's good at everything, ESPECIALLY when it's in a sniper role and can reach 100m with no issues.

None of the snipers can really hit hard at 100m besides the DMR.  More so the ISSR-B cause its capped to 83m when other snipers are capped at 90m.

 

I get your point though.

[PingOVER9000 189]

On 8/19/2020 at 8:53 PM, PingOVER9000 said:

Or just make it simple, buff its hard damage a little comparing with the actual health of cars.

it wasnt OP before and nobody asked/ complained for ISSR-b versatility or unique.

 

Comparing too with other thoughts, I still remain of the opinion above.

 

The nerf's reason because it was versatile it's not a enough a valid motivation.

 

At this point we may tell the same about a osnaw or volcano, both have  a excellent  hard and infantry damage, without count it's AOE and can kill several targets togheter.

Ok they have a higher delay counting recharge time and rocket travel, but they have a FAR better versatility and FAR better performance vs (SUPPOSED...)  specialized anti-vehicle weapons such as alig, DMR, killer bee.

 

On 8/19/2020 at 11:35 PM, CookiePuss said:

This was just a first go, Im sure balance will continue from this point forward.

 

I have some doubts, mmmh  a bet? are you ready?  

 

Without count all of you SPCT avoid and just skip instead to get a look with @Rhexx analysis and other people (include me ), but it's summer so kinda normal 

 

 

bye

 

 

[Cr0 328]

On 8/20/2020 at 2:24 AM, Noob_Guardian said:

Except for the fact that using DMR, and even the Oblivion which is 4 hit, I find myself out ttking HVRs. It's not "that" hard to do. From my experience it does translate, though often times it's a very close matchup.

Of course anyone can find themselves doing that from time to time. Especially under the right circumstances, as in: when the DMR range is long enough for 2 shot kills or/and when the enemy isn't very good. Then it's a beast of a weapon. In general HVR performs better than DMR because to stay in that small space where the DMR shines where you have to have a range of 90(?)+ meters all the time just isn't going to be practical as the missions are too dynamic for that.

 

Edited August 22, 2020 by Cr0

[DouglasFalcon 125]

10 minutes ago, Cr0 said:

Of course anyone can find themselves doing that from time to time. Especially under the right circumstances, as in: when the DMR range is long enough for 2 shot kills or/and when the enemy isn't very good. Then it's a beast of a weapon. In general HVR performs better than DMR because to stay in that small space where the DMR shines where you have to have a range of 90(?)+ meters all the time just isn't going to be practical as the missions are too dynamic. for that.

 

If only you knew what you were talking about you'd realize noob guardian is right lol.

Getting 3/3 shots with DMR and out-TTKing HVR ain't hard nor uncommon, 88+ range is just the icing on the cake that guarantees you're winning any fight (and consistently playing at that range is possible in a lot of cases, especially during Defend stages)

[VanilleKeks 737]

On 8/19/2020 at 4:57 AM, Motorola said:

LO doesnt want people using AV guns they are dumbing down the gameplay by just needing a conc nade to kill any car... this way any braindead player can kill any car.

 

That seems fair to me considering any braindead player can sit in their car and abuse the missing hitbox (when entering) and the car TP. A braindead thing to counter a braindead thing.

[Cr0 328]

53 minutes ago, DouglasFalcon said:

If only you knew what you were talking about you'd realize noob guardian is right lol.

Getting 3/3 shots with DMR and out-TTKing HVR ain't hard nor uncommon, 88+ range is just the icing on the cake that guarantees you're winning any fight (and consistently playing at that range is possible in a lot of cases, especially during Defend stages)

Nobody claimed it's hard to 3 shot someone with DMR.

I don't think I've ever seen anyone actually having to defend the fact that HVR in general performs better than DMR against player targets. I won't be the first one.

 

 

 

 

[Warspite 23]

 

Guns don't exist anymore poggers 

[Noob_Guardian 417]

On 8/22/2020 at 6:38 AM, Cr0 said:

Of course anyone can find themselves doing that from time to time. Especially under the right circumstances, as in: when the DMR range is long enough for 2 shot kills or/and when the enemy isn't very good. Then it's a beast of a weapon. In general HVR performs better than DMR because to stay in that small space where the DMR shines where you have to have a range of 90(?)+ meters all the time just isn't going to be practical as the missions are too dynamic for that.

 

I don't know about you, but i only ever go for that 88m+ kill when it's on objectives, or a handful of pushes at very specific angles. It's still got a faster ttk, so most times, if you were able to 2 hit with an hvr, most of the time you could have 3 hit with a DMR or 4 hit with ISSR/Oblivion. But that's my experience I like to use different weapons every few missions because 1 weapon 24/7 bores me, so i own half of armas just to keep gameplay enjoyable. It ends up translating to gameplay knowledge and weapon experience as well so /shrug.

Edited August 23, 2020 by Noob_Guardian

[Cr0 328]

53 minutes ago, Noob_Guardian said:

I don't know about you, but i only ever go for that 88m+ kill when it's on objectives, or a handful of pushes at very specific angles. It's still got a faster ttk, so most times, if you were able to 2 hit with an hvr, most of the time you could have 3 hit with a DMR or 4 hit with ISSR/Oblivion. But that's my experience I like to use different weapons every few missions because 1 weapon 24/7 bores me, so i own half of armas just to keep gameplay enjoyable. It ends up translating to gameplay knowledge and weapon experience as well so /shrug.

I see what you mean. I wish the DMR was a much quicker equip so that it could be utilized better.

[PingOVER9000 189]

On 8/20/2020 at 2:24 AM, Noob_Guardian said:

When you get a hybrid like the ISSR-B, you create balance issues because it's good at everything

Osnaw and Volcano are pretty good weapons against Vehicles and characters targets, so everything, without count they make AOE damage, at the end the have the same ability of ISSR-B/ Dog ear but perform a lot better than it.

 

Substantially "Nobody", after the adding of delay fire rate, made a worth complain for these two weapons (except 1 it was very very very less fun to use them   ), except (2) when some low rank players face higher rank players, and last ones have the advantage of using them and first one they have unlocked it yet.

 

So for this reason of nerfing ISSR-B for just its versatility is weird, it wasnt OP before and nobody asked/ complained for ISSR-b versatility or unique.

 

I may be ok for a nerf its anti AV, but at least buff it enough to make a worth sniper to use comparing a HVR, Scout etc, TIRED of this concept of balancing weapon is just a nerf and let it get dust in a locker, make it worth its value and our money for having purchased it in Armas.

 

On 8/20/2020 at 2:24 AM, Noob_Guardian said:

DMR AV as a mobile sniper wouldn't be balanced.  Most weapons in APB are categorized into AV or AP. Each having drawbacks, mobility is one of them. When you get a hybrid like the ISSR-B, you create balance issues because it's good at everything, ESPECIALLY when it's in a sniper role and can reach 100m with no issues. Hence why AV snipers like the DMR lacks mobility. It wouldn't be balanced to have a scout AV-DMR that 2 shots at 88m with fast sprint speed. That's why the Anubis sucks in comparison to the regular DMR, because it can't 2 hit, and even with decent hard damage people would call it trash because it's not great AP.

 

DMR actually as just an AV weapons , it doesnt worth the choice and against  players is meh.

DMR need to be  buffed a little its damage multiplier to 2 shots players in distance, 88m for a game such as APB is too much for using effectively this "ability".

 

Reduce it at around after the max range of some Assual rifles/ Rifles, so it cant outplay them and be balanced with the other weapons of the game and same time, make it a interesting weapon to be used / purchsed, Eh LO why not?

 

75 m, it may be a good distance, for counterbalacing a little the DMR with other sniper weapons, just reduce a little its fire rate and we may have a interesting weapon, balanced and worth to be used.

 

There is nothing bad of having multi-tasking weapons or being racists with  hybrids  ,  just need to have a little more check with them.

 

Bye

Edited August 23, 2020 by PingOVER9000
forgot the gif XD

[dr0zone 15]

I'm not going to state my opinion on LO's weapon balance but here's a historic APB video of the ISSR-B before it was reworked by SPCT players (c. 2014).

 

 

[Lign 361]

Relying on issr b stats it should be a very strong sniper rifle but that bloom increase after a 2nd shot makes the gun feeling so unnatural. But if they buff its accuracy on 3rd shot the gun will become the strongest long range weapon in the game. It either needs a little bit of rework or keep it as it is. As all other sniper rifles in the game, it's mostly a teamplay or a weapon that requires a usage of utilities such as covers, long distances etc. Yes, you can't overshoot obeya when you both start shooting at the same time but you also can't do it with hvr/dmr/scout. That's how sniper rifles work in the game

Edited August 23, 2020 by Lign

[PingOVER9000 189]

13 hours ago, dr0zone said:

I'm not going to state my opinion on LO's weapon balance but here's a historic APB video of the ISSR-B before it was reworked by SPCT players (c. 2014).

 

 

 

Nope, that's not how is the actual or pre-nerf ISSR-b/ dog ear, it has less bullets per mag, more recoil and kill in 3 shots instead of actual 4 bullets.

 

Probabily you dont have or ever used a dog ear lately, before it was a more and less a copy of DMR with CJ3 but more portable and less range.

Someone told a DMR may be kinda of op, such as @Noob_Guardian if it will be without its malus speed, but as you can see this video prove something different 

 

Below some video about Dog ear against characters (and hitreg/ range matters... XD) 

 

 

Edited August 24, 2020 by PingOVER9000

[ReaperTheButcher 177]

On 8/18/2020 at 2:28 AM, Cr0 said:

Because you thought it'd make it more balanced. I think the patch was pretty bad. It targeted incorrect things much of the time (except for some weak cars which got increased HP).
Swarm was fine.

 

Reduced AAEPD 'Volcano JC' max hard damage from 1227 -> 800

- The explosion damage radius was a much larger problem than the hard damage, since the explosion radius is what makes it annoyingly spammable against players. You can miss a player with a too large margin and still do damage.

 

Reduced ISSR-B hard damage from 72.9 -> 45

- A little bit too much damage reduction.

 

Reduced ISSR-A hard damage from 70.1 -> 51

- This gun is bad enough. Now with the reduction in hard damage and nothing to make it better, which it desperately needs, it's just a pure downgrade on an already weak weapon. It needs a buff with just a little bit slower spread increase (very low accuracy in close range, no matter how close you get almost).

 

Reduced SWARM hard damage from 50.7 -> 40.95

- Was fine ( as in good = fine). At teh very leas,t the reduction was too steep.

- The pre set recoil pattern is also a strange choice since some weapons now then have set recoil patterns while most are random. Balanced games don't have that. There needs to be a consistent theme in recoil. Either it's random across the board, within the recoil parameters, or it's set recoil patterns for all guns. It's inconsistent and confusing to new players also.

 

Vegas 4x4: 1,350 -> 1,150

Vegas: 1,350 -> 1300

If that is correct, Osmaw can now one-shot one vegas, but not the other. It's basically the same car with different steering. Again, inconsistent. It shouldn't be a pure 1 shot with the osmaw.

 

Not a very good patch.
 

 

Little Orbit seems to be overtaken by the Old G1 staff, not good.