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RNG vs Skill poll, because im bored and like seeing people's reactions.

Require more Skill or more RNG?  

99 members have voted

  1. 1. For a game like APB, would it be better to make weapons more skill based? Or increase the RNG.

    • Skill, a player should be the reason they win not because of their weapon
    • RNG, ... idk a good reason for this one just comment it if you have one plz c:
  2. 2. Bonus: Since LO added the ability to shoot through player cars that are not in your mission, should they also make them transparent?

    • Yes similar to GTA 5 passive mode
    • No it's fine as is
    • Bring back full collisions


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8 hours ago, Flaws said:

Remove all RNG based mechanics from all weapons, make all weapons more accurate across the board. Make it all skill based.

 

Make players who are not in your mission unable to interact with you. Remove all collisions with players who are not in the mission. I am okay with enabling them out of mission because that doesn't matter.

yea skill based gameplay you know alot about that im sure 100% skill

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2 hours ago, Mitne said:

I want to remind you all that this game is in every aspect technically MMO. Hence why it has RNG mechanics and simplifed combat - of course it's made in such way to not be bullshoot as this game still is shooter but also MMO.

For it to be fully skill-based, there would need to be put major changes and all careful to not break already fragile balance of weapons which is clearly put in favour of RNG mechanics.

Not like i'm against skill-based game of course, I often get fucked by RNG myself.

I remember when i told myself to look at this game like an mmo, but i feel like in order for it to survive, it is going to need a gunplay rework

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7 hours ago, 404 said:

i dont think anyone is suggesting that players should be able to max rof every gun and still have optimal performance - im pretty sure you know that, so can we maybe skip the part where you pretend thats what "reducing rng" means?

It sounds like that's exactly what people want. Their weapon often misses past 50M, but they keep expecting it to hit. Are they insane? If they think a weapon needs an accuracy buff, then suggest an accuracy buff. Suggesting remove rng doesn't help LO. They need to know specifics.

 

8 hours ago, CookiePuss said:

That's not what players mean when they talk about the amount of RNG in a game.

Let's use the ATAC as an example:
The ATAC has an accuracy of about 16cm at 10m.

This means that at about 42m, even with max accuracy (first shot in marksman mode), the gun begins the rely on RNG to land a shot.
The intended RANGE of the gun is 50m. (57m with IR3)

This is what people are talking about. Starting at 42m, even with pixel perfect tracking, luck starts to decide if you land shots or not.

Its not about firing an OCA full auto at a 100m target. (OCA leans on RNG from 19m on)

Its about luck deciding fights well within the intended range of most weapons.

 

 

To me, RNG is something you have no control over and cannot work around. You can move closer or switch weapons. I do agree that some weapons could use an accuracy buff. The ACT44 is falls into that same area of not being consistent at it's max damage range.

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15 hours ago, Mitne said:

I want to remind you all that this game is in every aspect technically MMO. Hence why it has RNG mechanics and simplifed combat - of course it's made in such way to not be bullshoot as this game still is shooter but also MMO.

For it to be fully skill-based, there would need to be put major changes and all careful to not break already fragile balance of weapons which is clearly put in favour of RNG mechanics.

Not like i'm against skill-based game of course, I often get fucked by RNG myself.

Something I just thought of, is that the battle Royal genre has taken off whether you like it or not, and those titles usually have good gunplay+cars+~100players on one map. So I don't think it would be impossible to give apb a good rework.

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for the love of god just don't add recoil patterns I'm not going to spend 30 hours learning recoil patterns. Also yea I agree if you make guns less reliant on rng you NEED to increase ttk so it doesn't turn into every player being able to hit near min or min ttk easily ie. so consistent tracking will matter vs twitch shooting/flicking. 

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2 hours ago, MonkaS said:

for the love of god just don't add recoil patterns I'm not going to spend 30 hours learning recoil patterns. Also yea I agree if you make guns less reliant on rng you NEED to increase ttk so it doesn't turn into every player being able to hit near min or min ttk easily ie. so consistent tracking will matter vs twitch shooting/flicking. 

Too late, the Swarm has a recoil pattern.

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Skill or rng based gameplay? Well skill based gameplay with a specific spray pattterns like in csgo?

 

Wouldn't this make cheating easier?

 

Rng based gameplay is more realistic and less abuseable with cheats.

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On 8/3/2020 at 2:47 AM, Dezire said:

Pretty sure youve always been able to shoot through player cars that arent in your mission

Hmm I guess when i played before LO i never noticed

6 hours ago, xHenryman90x said:

Rng based gameplay is more realistic and less abuseable with cheats.

I get the cheats part, but cheaters would use weapons with the least amount of RNG anyway

Plus I wouldn't say RNG is more realistic, it would be stupid for any gun manufacturer to not have a reliable gun (which is my example in this case)

If they wanted RNG to be realistic I would get it if it became less and less as your character advanced giving the impression that your character has learned how to use a gun

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unknown.png

 

Looking great so far

 

Can't wait to see LO fix this unnecessary aspect of the game as well

 

#MissionImpossibleIsOnlyTheBeginning

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Making the game more RNG to "counter" Macros and Cheaters is probably the worst idea. There will always be bad apples so making the game a casino is just hurting everyone else. I don't need recoil which is exact like in Counter Strike, but I also don't want every gun to be a Carbine.

 

There is certainly a balance to achieve. Make guns with simimar accuracies to OSCAR (little RNG) and PMG (manageable RNG) and we're gucci.

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To the people that go "hack, hur dur, macro, hur dur me good me only beat by cheaters" Please consider that not everyone is cheating in this game, they are just better than you. 🙂
thanks // Böx

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On 8/5/2020 at 12:22 AM, xHenryman90x said:

Skill or rng based gameplay? Well skill based gameplay with a specific spray pattterns like in csgo?

 

Wouldn't this make cheating easier?

 

Rng based gameplay is more realistic and less abuseable with cheats.

Spray patterns are not skill. It's like saying you're good at Simon says when it's the same color pattern every time. The real skill in CS:GO is coordinating with your team and learning how other players navigate the map.

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On 8/4/2020 at 2:47 AM, CookiePuss said:

This means that at about 42m, even with max accuracy (first shot in marksman mode), the gun begins the rely on RNG to land a shot.

The intended RANGE of the gun is 50m. (57m with IR3)

Sounds like the guns intended effective range is 42m then.

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2 hours ago, Revoluzzer said:

Sounds like the guns intended effective range is 42m then.

Let's just call it the point at which weapon damage per shot begins to decrease.

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On 8/14/2020 at 12:23 PM, Revoluzzer said:

Sounds like the guns intended effective range is 42m then.

 

On 8/14/2020 at 2:26 PM, CookiePuss said:

Let's just call it the point at which weapon damage per shot begins to decrease.

 

Every weapon has an "effective" range, and a "damage range". Firing past the "effective" range for weapons causes a lot of "rng". Most weapons will be effective, without much if any RNG if used in the effective range. So the real focus, should be finding the effective range, and attempting to minimize RNG within it, if RNG is a problem, while maintaining less effectiveness past that.

Edited by Noob_Guardian
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34 minutes ago, Noob_Guardian said:

 

 

Every weapon has an "effective" range, and a "damage range". Firing past the "effective" range for weapons causes a lot of "rng". Most weapons will be effective, without much if any RNG if used in the effective range. So the real focus, should be finding the effective range, and attempting to minimize RNG within it, if RNG is a problem, while maintaining less effectiveness past that.

That was some word soup to me.

We aren't discussing damage drop off range beyond the semantic argument of which is the effectvie range, the one where you have less accuracy, or the one that effects weapon damage.

 

What we are discussing is RNG and what our opinions are about it. I would like to see less RNG than we have now as I really don't enjoy losing fights because of RNG. If I can aim well, I feel like I should be rewarded for that and not get shafted by RNG.

 

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On 8/4/2020 at 3:17 AM, R3ACT3M said:

I remember when i told myself to look at this game like an mmo, but i feel like in order for it to survive, it is going to need a gunplay rework

The guns were alot less "rng" in the past... they could start by reverting alot of the changes g1 did to make most of the 'skill-guns' inaccurate.

 

g1 buffed the obir after open beta and it was a good reliable gun and then they nerfed its rate of fire and accuracy... LO reduced all marksmen guns ranges also and added some weird recoil/spread to each bullet of its burst.

 

scout's accuracy was changed by g1, adding hunting sight doesnt make it pixel perfect anymore... they completely gutted the ntec and changed the gun entirely... obeya was gutted also... oca smg turned to rng spam. 

 

i wish they would make the guns more accurate and revert alot of the dumb changes g1 did to all the guns.... people complain about car gaming... give us the old osmaw back, simple. why are they adding some emp bullshoot and making all cars 1 shot by a conc lol. 

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On 8/16/2020 at 2:39 PM, CookiePuss said:

That was some word soup to me.

We aren't discussing damage drop off range beyond the semantic argument of which is the effectvie range, the one where you have less accuracy, or the one that effects weapon damage.

 

What we are discussing is RNG and what our opinions are about it. I would like to see less RNG than we have now as I really don't enjoy losing fights because of RNG. If I can aim well, I feel like I should be rewarded for that and not get shafted by RNG.

 

The thing though is that RNG is rarely an issue when using a weapon right and accounting for a weapon's effective range. The only way to decrease RNG, is to ensure weapons min-ttk more often by increasing accuracy and reducing bloom, which as you've seen with weapons like the shredder which 3 hit in range all the time, or C-2, and other weapons that had little to no RNG. It's neither fun to be on the other end, nor balanced. Even if every weapon acts like a laser, it wouldn't be good because of how lax the damage ramp is on several weapons.

 

In "almost" every game you will at times get shafted by recoil or bloom. Others auto adjust for it so it's a laser and you simply have to track, but those games tend to also have strong healing elements or headshots as well. I feel that APB's RNG isn't much of an issue. Sure it sucks to have an enemy get away because the obeya decided to recoil wrong at the last shot, but really, i'd rather have that happen sometimes rather than feel like i'm firing a laser all day like in MW where all the weapons feel pretty much the same.

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56 minutes ago, Noob_Guardian said:

The thing though is that RNG is rarely an issue when using a weapon right and accounting for a weapon's effective range. The only way to decrease RNG, is to ensure weapons min-ttk more often by increasing accuracy and reducing bloom, which as you've seen with weapons like the shredder which 3 hit in range all the time, or C-2, and other weapons that had little to no RNG. It's neither fun to be on the other end, nor balanced. Even if every weapon acts like a laser, it wouldn't be good because of how lax the damage ramp is on several weapons.

 

In "almost" every game you will at times get shafted by recoil or bloom. Others auto adjust for it so it's a laser and you simply have to track, but those games tend to also have strong healing elements or headshots as well. I feel that APB's RNG isn't much of an issue. Sure it sucks to have an enemy get away because the obeya decided to recoil wrong at the last shot, but really, i'd rather have that happen sometimes rather than feel like i'm firing a laser all day like in MW where all the weapons feel pretty much the same.

RNG is an issue because it exists, and in fact is the top of this thread.

The amount of RNG we have could be adjusted in either direction while maintaining "balance" so long as changes are applied universally.

RNG is a tool that is neither inherently good or bad, its just a tool... I'm simply saying I would prefer it were applied differently.

 

I enjoy playing well and getting kills because of it.

I don't enjoy winning because of RNG and I don't enjoy losing because of it either.

If you feel different, that's cool. I'm just giving my preference.

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9 hours ago, CookiePuss said:

RNG is a tool that is neither inherently good or bad, its just a tool... I'm simply saying I would prefer it were applied differently.

 

Nuff said, throwing grenades also have RNG.

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13 hours ago, Noob_Guardian said:

The thing though is that RNG is rarely an issue when using a weapon right and accounting for a weapon's effective range. The only way to decrease RNG, is to ensure weapons min-ttk more often by increasing accuracy and reducing bloom, which as you've seen with weapons like the shredder which 3 hit in range all the time, or C-2, and other weapons that had little to no RNG. It's neither fun to be on the other end, nor balanced. Even if every weapon acts like a laser, it wouldn't be good because of how lax the damage ramp is on several weapons.

 

In "almost" every game you will at times get shafted by recoil or bloom. Others auto adjust for it so it's a laser and you simply have to track, but those games tend to also have strong healing elements or headshots as well. I feel that APB's RNG isn't much of an issue. Sure it sucks to have an enemy get away because the obeya decided to recoil wrong at the last shot, but really, i'd rather have that happen sometimes rather than feel like i'm firing a laser all day like in MW where all the weapons feel pretty much the same.

its only not fun when reality kicks in and your performance shows everyone how bad your aim is, which... then you push to get good...

 

making all the guns inaccurate is dumbing the game down and making everyone bad instead... it feels just as bad when im using an ntec and i lose a fight because of how inaccurate they have made the gun... knowing i wouldve stood a better chance if the gun was actually hitting where i was aiming.

 

i understand the games actual performance plays a big part in how well you aim also so if im missing with all the guns i can only imagine players playing with poor fps. 

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1 hour ago, Motorola said:

its only not fun when reality kicks in and your performance shows everyone how bad your aim is, which... then you push to get good...

 

making all the guns inaccurate is dumbing the game down and making everyone bad instead... it feels just as bad when im using an ntec and i lose a fight because of how inaccurate they have made the gun... knowing i wouldve stood a better chance if the gun was actually hitting where i was aiming.

 

i understand the games actual performance plays a big part in how well you aim also so if im missing with all the guns i can only imagine players playing with poor fps. 

Except you can be good at controlling RNG, isn't that what it means to be "good" in APB? Handling weapons so well that RNG isn't much of an issue at all?

 

You must mean NTEC Spray, because they tap firing is still pretty damn un-rngy

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4 hours ago, Noob_Guardian said:

Except you can be good at controlling RNG, isn't that what it means to be "good" in APB? Handling weapons so well that RNG isn't much of an issue at all?

 

You must mean NTEC Spray, because they tap firing is still pretty damn un-rngy

you dont control rng, thats why its called rng

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