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iLostMolly

What on earth did you do to the shotguns?

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JG is useless. 4 hits no kill at literally 5 m distance. NFAS unusable, CSG too. WHAT? OCA spray at 30m insta kill. great balance

 

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Useless? I disagree.

Are they inconsistent? Yes.

 

I dont like the current shotgun changes either.

I'd much rather have the 2017 shotguns back. (pre-LO changes)

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50 minutes ago, iLostMolly said:

OCA spray at 30m insta kill. great balance

shotguns are (still) in a bad spot but what kind of superheroes are you playing against that instakill at 30m with an oca lol

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i remember putting an entire nfas clip into somebody at point blank, they weren't moving, and it doing zero damage.

 

yesterday i shot somebody at pointblank with jg in asylum and it went straight through them (that was due to ddos also).

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4 hours ago, iLostMolly said:

JG is useless. 4 hits no kill at literally 5 m distance. NFAS unusable, CSG too. WHAT? OCA spray at 30m insta kill. great balance

 

 

3 hours ago, FakeBungo said:

i remember putting an entire nfas clip into somebody at point blank, they weren't moving, and it doing zero damage.

 

yesterday i shot somebody at pointblank with jg in asylum and it went straight through them (that was due to ddos also).

None of this would be caused by any of the shotgun changes. 

 

For an OCA to min ttk at 30m... I'm not sure RNGesus himself could do that. 

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9 hours ago, CookiePuss said:

 

None of this would be caused by any of the shotgun changes. 

 

For an OCA to min ttk at 30m... I'm not sure RNGesus himself could do that. 

you're right, i think its always taken at least 12 shots past 20m

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16 hours ago, CookiePuss said:

For an OCA to min ttk at 30m... I'm not sure RNGesus himself could do that. 

 

7 hours ago, Noob_Guardian said:

you're right, i think its always taken at least 12 shots past 20m

I can verify that 3 to 5 days ago it happened to me.

It did not happen consistently though so I suspect server lag as well as player lag had something to do with it.

No real certainty why though.

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I'll paypal you $10 if you show me a clip of someone instakilling you full spray with an OCA at 30m.

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JG is shotgun king but inconsistent.
CSG is too unforgiving to pick over the JG.

PMG is SMG king.

OCA is a direct downgrade to PMG. (aka completely useless)

 

Bad balancing all around.

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can agree they feel inconsistent, but i got my butt handed to me multiple times from shotgun users

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Posted (edited)
18 minutes ago, Flaws said:

PMG is SMG king.

 

I would argue that Aces rifle is SMG king, though it's less noob friendly.

But yeah weapon balance is bananas across the board.

I think we need global change that defines weapons to their category not just better or worse alternative.

Edited by Resine

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1 minute ago, Resine said:

I would argue that Aces rifle is SMG king

not only is the aces rifle not an smg but its not even very good at pretending to be one

 

i quite like the gun myself but it has a lot of poor qualities that keep it firmly under the pmg

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3 minutes ago, Resine said:

I would argue that Aces rifle is SMG king

Nah, it never really was that great. It might be nice for killing silvers and low golds but against decent players it will struggle, especially if they play PMG or even current OCA. Let alone a shotgun. The PMG has insane mid-range capabilities which the Aces rifle comes nowhere near and its much easier to use overall.

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14 minutes ago, Resine said:

I would argue that Aces rifle is SMG king, though it's less noob friendly

Aces is not that good against high skill golds who has a good skill at strafing unless you’re a tracking god

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4 minutes ago, Flaws said:

Nah, it never really was that great. It might be nice for killing silvers and low golds but against decent players it will struggle, especially if they play PMG or even current OCA. Let alone a shotgun. The PMG has insane mid-range capabilities which the Aces rifle comes nowhere near and its much easier to use overall.

It's my personal preference, I made it to 16th rank with Aces alone without touching NTec

back in the day.

TTK is about the same.

PMG is 57% less accurate but doesn't bloom.

Aces does, but the thing is it doesn't have recovery delay, meaning you can shoot sequential bursts of accurate bullets up to 40 meters of effective range and you can zoom in  top of that, I recorded it and did count frames, to maintain its base accuracy your TTK would be little over one second depdening on how well you manage it.

The clip size is not as forgiving or luxurious as PMGs and the handligh can sometimes be annoying with random shake to sides.

I have been maining this gun for years when I was actively playing and to me there is a single difference why I do like it more.

More control less Rng,

With much higher base accuracy it was up to me to decide how much I let my gun bloom and how much of a chance I want to take with Rng rather than PMG that sometimes felt like laser and othertimes like potato launcher.

 

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Posted (edited)
On 5/27/2020 at 10:37 AM, ExoticZ said:

Useless? I disagree.

Are they inconsistent? Yes.

 

I dont like the current shotgun changes either.

I'd much rather have the 2017 shotguns back. (pre-LO changes)

I wonder if being an spct helps in conveying this message more easily to whoever is responsible for these weapon balances.

Not saying it wasn't requested multiple times by alot of people (me imcluded) already but hey.

Edited by WorldDominator

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4 minutes ago, WorldDominator said:

I wonder if being an spct helps in conveying this message more easily to whoever is responsible for these weapon balances.

Not saying it wasn't requested multiple times by alot of people (me imcluded) already but hey.

since we're on v3 of shotgun rebalances, i'd say probably not

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42 minutes ago, 404 said:

since we're on v3 of shotgun rebalances, i'd say probably not

Ye but it shows how incapable they are of doing it right at the moment, so the least they can do is that they let people enjoy playing this category of guns like they used to pre LO while they figure out what they are supposed to do with the real problems of the game.

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Posted (edited)

It's a shame that old forums are gone. 

There was a thread how to distribute shotgun spread pellets so you could kill opponents on two near full shots but you wouldn't do on poorly aimed half shots, playing with range and spread values to determine effective range. 

 

The whole thing across the years with shotgun was that it was hard to balance. 

G1 and now LO make the same mistake, you have a shotgun - 2STK weapon with same or even lower TTK than its counter SMG weapons. 

Meaning Shotgun is a corner king, and has equal chances to fight in open areas. 

 

I would expect a SG to hold corner well with scary burst damage, but be vulnerable to sustained damage of SMG if player managed to rush that corner. 

 

Hitreg is not perfect, we had a history of shit servers and ghost shots, on top of that the game allows 300ms people to play the game so yes i do agree that SG are not reliable, but people do have a tendency to call their shots hits while they missed. 

 

Edited by Resine
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On 5/27/2020 at 11:37 AM, ExoticZ said:

Useless? I disagree.

Are they inconsistent? Yes.

 

I dont like the current shotgun changes either.

I'd much rather have the 2017 shotguns back. (pre-LO changes)

As long as oca will be reverted to pre-LO as shotguns, I'm up for it.

 

2 hours ago, Resine said:

The whole thing across the years with shotgun was that it was hard to balance. 

G1 and now LO make the same mistake, you have a shotgun - 2STK weapon with same or even lower TTK than its counter SMG weapons. 

Meaning Shotgun is a corner king, and has equal chances to fight in open areas. 

You basically read my mind. Shotguns are not only corner kings but also they scale much better when both high skill players meet each other in cqc fight in open area. Shotgun user just doesn't need to track his strafing enemy constantly, just wait until he strafes into your crosshair. 

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10 minutes ago, Lign said:

As long as oca will be reverted to pre-LO as shotguns, I'm up for it.

 

You basically read my mind. Shotguns are not only corner kings but also they scale much better when both high skill players meet each other in cqc fight in open area. Shotgun user just doesn't need to track his strafing enemy constantly, just wait until he strafes into your crosshair. 

 

I have been saying it for years but no one listens... For most guns it's about the range, accuracy, STK and TTK and overall gun handling. 

 

The lower STK the higher TTK should be. 

-To be better at either corners or open field, never both. 

 

The longer range the higher TTK 

-so you can't spray your let's say NTec in OCA face and have pretty much same chances 

 

Make weapons accurate and keep their range in their niche by limiting effective range. 

-So gun like OCA would be deadly accurate, but with 15 meters of effective range you would never could beat assault rifle if your damage would be 3 times lower at mid range. 

But you would be able to do some consistent damage instead of praying for 2-3 lucky hits to finish off tagged opponent. 

 

Rework that bloody IR to % value. 

-10% would be good i think. So CQC weapons could get ± 2 meters and the long one would be about the same so a single mod doesn't break entire Eco system of weapons. 

 

The easier the gun is to handle, the worse it should be. 

But only in small variation, nothing crazy. 

 

And don't do stupid mechanic like crazy recoil that discriminate low sens players. I play at 800 DPI and 1.5 sens. If I wanted to play with Tommy gun i would have to drag my mouse to middle of my room. 

 

 

We had open test servers back in the day. If it was me I would tweak weapons over the week, let player play with them and redo stuff based on their constructive feed back. Testing as many solution as I was given or thought about. 

Or not, let's better do fucking nothing like we did for last decade and keep adding stupid Joker Boxes with more shit weapons and keep nerfing Shotguns and NTec again and again in wrong way. 

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24 minutes ago, Resine said:

The lower STK the higher TTK should be. 

-To be better at either corners or open field, never both. 

I don't think that it should be done like that. Weapon balance should be adjusted depending on how a weapon plays in practical way. For example pmg is 5stk, if it gets nerfed ttk it will become useless and everyone will just switch to shotguns and some ppl who like to aim will switch to oca.

 

29 minutes ago, Resine said:

The longer range the higher TTK 

-so you can't spray your let's say NTec in OCA face and have pretty much same chances 

It can potentially scale badly.

 

30 minutes ago, Resine said:

Make weapons accurate and keep their range in their niche by limiting effective range. 

-So gun like OCA would be deadly accurate, but with 15 meters of effective range you would never could beat assault rifle if your damage would be 3 times lower at mid range. 

But you would be able to do some consistent damage instead of praying for 2-3 lucky hits to finish off tagged opponent. 

For oca it works like that. I personally prefer to switch to 45ap if a target beyond 15m.

 

31 minutes ago, Resine said:

Rework that bloody IR to % value. 

-10% would be good i think. So CQC weapons could get ± 2 meters and the long one would be about the same so a single mod doesn't break entire Eco system of weapons. 

Test districts showed that it's a bad concept and scales badly for mid range weapons by making them extremely strong in long range. It made obeya the strongest weapon for mid-long situations. 80m effective range with fast ttk. It wouldn't be a problem if character rendering wouldn't be limited to 100m.

 

34 minutes ago, Resine said:

The easier the gun is to handle, the worse it should be. 

But only in small variation, nothing crazy. 

That's how it works right now for some weapons. Raptor and nano are basically laser guns but both have slow ttk.

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5 hours ago, WorldDominator said:

Ye but it shows how incapable they are of doing it right at the moment, so the least they can do is that they let people enjoy playing this category of guns like they used to pre LO while they figure out what they are supposed to do with the real problems of the game.

That's what they SHOULD do with almost all of their changes so far save for 2-3 such as the Yukon and COBR-A. Everything else has been a disaster.

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if you get a cheater with aimbot to play with JG/CSG he will always 2 shot you close range, it depends on WHO uses it and how accurate they are so shotguns are fine.

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