Legit Wallhack (Spotter) Shoud be removed or Nerfed.

[Cutey 29]

<- Wallhack for Tryhards. Ruining the game.

[Bellenettiel 232]

neutral here

but i'd rather LO didn't remove gameplay features

 

rather make spotted enemies more aware that they've been spotted or maybe change it so that it would tag the spotted enemy on the radar instead of the hud.

 

idk

nerfing spotted was the last thing that crossed my mind, specially when there hasn't been a new contact/ content update since ... god knows when?

Edited May 11, 2020 by Bellenettiel

[Azukii 92]

Hello,

This topic has been moved to the Game Suggestions section of our forums.

Thank you.

 

- Azukii

[vsb 6171]

there shouldn't be any "wallhack" effects available in apb imo, nothing should go past the level of the tagger mod

[KyoukiDotExe 231]

Completely broken since you have to guess if you're spotter or not. Otherwise the constant tracking and 8 seconds on your head (heck even flare gun is lower) is very strong to perfectly prenade or prefire someone.

 

It's good to have as a solo player to tell your teammates without comms where they are but once you get them in a teamed situation it feels overpowering.

Removing feels a bit overboard for this reason and I much prefer a way to know I am tagged or just blink instead.

[LilyRain 671]

I am usually against removing content from games, but Spotter mod is a fine exception. The mod's description speaks for itself:

 

 

Calling the mod a wallhack is not an exaggeration. It actually is a wallhack made 'legitimate' by someone who should never be allowed near video games, especially shooters. The day this mod alongside other mods and things were implemented, APB was never the same again.

 

New Player Experience:

This mod is a major prime pillar among those that are, by design, demolishing the new player experience. For starters, it is locked behind either R195 or JTs from fightclub grinds, which a newcomer should actually be spending elsewhere. Any new player who previously played a shooter game would quit if told he/she must grind fight clubs EVERY SINGLE week just to be able to equip a wall-hack mod... Having premium also requires time to reach R195 as well. VERY few would bother going all the way when they discover that the game currently contains gimmicks like this that should have never been approved.

 

Newcomers that think would play a better competitive game that doesn't have something as ridiculous as this. Players quit shooters because of cheaters, no one in their right mind would play a game that has a cheap 'cheating' mechanic DEEP in it through progression or 1-week-time use of continuous dedicated grind. 'Grind to wallhax? Yeah, no thanks. *Uninstalled*'

 

Those who don't bother thinking or improving will never succeed as even weapon stats don't have numbers in-game to tell how far newcomers can go with them (just bars that tell them nothing).. most newcomers are guaranteed to never know what APBDB is or how to interpret stats from it as a lot of existing players themselves don't. I mentioned APBDB because newcomers can't check what locked Contacts have to sell, so they'll never know what this lovely orange-icon does from the tab-screen as it is 100% stealth. Newcomers can be spotted IN THEIR CARS when driving to objectives, Spotter mod doesn't even require them to be on their feet.  A decent newcomer who dismounts and attempts to advance tactically behind walls is already dead before the battle starts as they can be seen in real time.. 10 seconds of real-time tracking guarantees their death. There is no way these newcomers would survive against experienced players let alone experienced players with a wallhack that doesn't even tell that they are CURRENTLY BEING TRACKED THROUGH WALLS!

 

Looking at the balancing trends of mods in APB, Spotter mod would have for instance made the person doing the spotting spotted themselves as well, would've discouraged the mod being used as much for obvious reasons. That would've made Spotter a "I am here, you are there, FITE ME NAO" kinda fun-gimmick mod, but sadly it is not. It is simply game-breaking with zero% repercussions.

 

Existing Players and Newcomers that Survived:

This mod (among others) makes gameplay boringly cheap. Accounting for respawn times, etc.. Spotter's cooldown and duration lengths effectively guarantee continuous 'wallxahing' when 2/4 players in a team have it equipped. It is enough of a reason for any newcomer who has no nostalgia or attachment to APB to NOT recommend the game to anyone (alongside other things such as Pioneer/Espacio car gameplay). It is enough to tell the game's history of the previous, greedy managements that designed progression and gameplay in this way. Any player who is not a troll or cheap knows for a fact that this mod has no place in this game.

 

Suggested Action:

If Little Orbit cares about this game, it would go to Ernst 'Mule' Templeton from the Enforcer-side and Birth from the Criminal side and REPLACE Spotter mod with unique taggers. One that signifies Enforcer-progression and another for Criminal-progression (in a similar fashion to N-tecs Crim Slayer and Cop's Bane). LO would naturally remove spotter mod from the Joker Store as well.

 

There is no need to waste time trying to balance something that is broken by nature. This mod, no matter how gimped down or nerfed still should not exist. Its positives are nothing compared to its negatives. Delete it and never look back.

 

I know that Little Orbit is prioritizing the engine upgrade & I also want it to be ready as soon as possible.. but there are fundamental things that need to be done prior as news travel exceptionally fast and this one doesn't even consume time whatsoever. Game-Writers are racing daily around the clock for scoops in blogs and whatnot. If this gets delayed till the engine is done, players will simply come to enjoy improved performance and visuals then leave again after the hype from it dies because core-gameplay is still full of ridiculous gimmicks such as Spotter mod.

[neophobia 216]

nice neutral survey

 

i haven't been playing with spotter too much - but it's clear that it needs a nerf. i fully am against removing it though maybe add a limit, like, tracking 1 person at a time for a shorter duration (but possibly lowering the cooldown in return?)

 

it really isn't as bad as a "real" wallhack though.

Edited May 11, 2020 by neophobia

[n0vaxp2 16]

5 hours ago, Lily Rain said:

It actually is a wallhack made 'legitimate' by someone who should never be allowed near video games, especially shooters.

There are quite a few games that have a "spotting" feature. The Battlefield series comes to mind.

 

5 hours ago, Lily Rain said:

Newcomers that think would play a better competitive game that doesn't have something as ridiculous as this.

APB is by design, not a competitive game. If it were competitive then, all players would have access to the same weapons, equipment, mods, and vehicles from the start (either that or players could unlock items in any order they wanted and wouldn't take nearly as much time). Imagine playing CS:GO but you have to get 5000 kills with the M4A4 just to use the M4A1-S. APB was originally designed as an MMO game, not a competitive shooter. People need to stop pretending it's something it's not.

 

 

 

I do agree that there needs to be some kind of downside to using the mod, like a notification that says "<Player> spotted you!" or perhaps losing effectiveness the closer/father the user is.

 

Also maybe it's just me, but for as horrible as you're making out this mod to be, I don't really see people using it all that often to be honest.

[LilyRain 671]

1 hour ago, n0vaxp2 said:

There are quite a few games that have a "spotting" feature. The Battlefield series comes to mind.

Battlefield made changes to the spotting system & was received badly. Plus, everyone knows how much of a let down the Battlefield franchise has become. It is already a joke and people are asking DICE to find better solutions. Mentioning Battlefield to defend Spotter actually does the opposite. It only shows how stale and unwanted games become with that cheap gimmick.

 

Moreover, this is another problem on its own. Any game that rips off the bad features of successful games doesn't make the game any better. APB has its own problems and shouldn't follow suit on the gimmicks that made triple-AAA titles less than masterpieces. All this does is contribute to accelerating APB's death as apparent.

 

One more thing, district-sizes in APB aren't that large with many options to even require such cheap visual aid. Plus it is meaningless when the mission area is clearly visible and the playable field is only 100 meters. Spotter mod is absolutely not needed in APB. All it does is destroy game-sense and make the experience less than mediocre.

 

1 hour ago, n0vaxp2 said:

APB is by design, not a competitive game. If it were competitive then, all players would have access to the same weapons, equipment, mods, and vehicles from the start (either that or players could unlock items in any order they wanted and wouldn't take nearly as much time). Imagine playing CS:GO but you have to get 5000 kills with the M4A4 just to use the M4A1-S. APB was originally designed as an MMO game, not a competitive shooter. People need to stop pretending it's something it's not.

Currently, APB is not competitive indeed, but that doesn't mean we should make it even further from that. 'APB is not on ESL so might as well go all the way down'. No, that is not how things should go if you really want to see APB be slightly more healthy.

 

Although CS:GO is on ESL, the AWP sniper being competitive is also a very known subject of debate. A lot of servers disable that weapon as well. No game is perfectly competitive even if it makes it to ESL so don't speak as if they are.

 

And there is no spotting in CS:GO, only radio-communication quick messages with the general area. This also speaks for itself.

 

1 hour ago, n0vaxp2 said:

People need to stop pretending it's something it's not.

People should also stop trying to make it incredibly similar to something else. APB is not on ESL but it was definitely something else before these cheap additions.

 

1 hour ago, n0vaxp2 said:

I do agree that there needs to be some kind of downside to using the mod, like a notification that says "<Player> spotted you!" or perhaps losing effectiveness the closer/father the user is.

Read harder. I said such a downside would've been less impactful than the current, zero repercussions state of the mod. Spotter having a downside is not my stance. I'd rather it be gone for good.

 

2 hours ago, n0vaxp2 said:

Also maybe it's just me, but for as horrible as you're making out this mod to be, I don't really see people using it all that often to be honest.

Nothing personal, but maybe it is time you get out of the Bronze district and see the real world. There is simply no other reason as to why you don't see this mod often.

[n0vaxp2 16]

7 minutes ago, Lily Rain said:

Battlefield made changes to the spotting system & was received badly.

If you're talking about the changes they made in Battlefield 5, then those are changes that removed the traditional spotting system and replaced it with something different. Meaning that if it wasn't received well, then players prefer the Battlefield's traditional spotting system.

 

16 minutes ago, Lily Rain said:

Mentioning Battlefield to defend Spotter actually does the opposite. It only shows how stale and unwanted games become with that cheap gimmick.

Battlefield is just an example. There are plenty of other games that have spotter mechanics and I rarely see people complaining about them.

 

22 minutes ago, Lily Rain said:

Although CS:GO is on ESL, the AWP sniper being competitive is also a very known subject of debate. A lot of servers disable that weapon as well. No game is perfectly competitive even if it makes it to ESL so don't speak as if they are.

That wasn't the point. If the AWP is disabled on a server then that means nobody can use it, but players still have equal access to all the other weapons. Weapons, modifications, and vehicles are locked behind progression that requires substantial playtime (especially in the case of weapon mods). New players don't have nearly the same amount of options compared to a more seasoned player which is inherently unfair in a competitive sense.

 

29 minutes ago, Lily Rain said:

And there is no spotting in CS:GO, only radio-communication quick messages with the general area. This also speaks for itself.

Because it's a competitive game that was balanced from the ground up based on that fact. Again, APB was not designed to be a competitive game.

 

33 minutes ago, Lily Rain said:

Nothing personal, but maybe it is time you get out of the Bronze district and see the real world. There is simply no other reason as to why you don't see this mod often.

I regularly play in the silver servers and move to bronze when the population limit is reached on the silver ones. I see the field suppliers and blowtorch twice as often as I see spotter.

 

 

 

 

Your concern seems to be with new players encountering someone with spotter equipped and getting destroyed, which is completely valid but I believe misses the mark. The better question to raise is why are new players encountering R195+ players in the first place. In that situation it doesn't matter if the R195+ player has spotter or not, they're naturally going to destroy the new player anyways.

[LilyRain 671]

35 minutes ago, n0vaxp2 said:

If you're talking about the changes they made in Battlefield 5, then those are changes that removed the traditional spotting system and replaced it with something different. Meaning that if it wasn't received well, then players prefer the Battlefield's traditional spotting system.

Them prefering the traditional spotting system compared to the new one is natural. It doesn't mean they completely like the old one. It is the same with APB. Most people that are against Spotter mod are sort of okay with the tagger mod, some dislike both.

 

35 minutes ago, n0vaxp2 said:

Battlefield is just an example. There are plenty of other games that have spotter mechanics and I rarely see people complaining about them.

Of course, people login to grind. Look up on the internet and you'll see the dissatisfaction/complaints, most people won't take the subject to discuss it in-game. It also says something when those games are much more massive in size compared to APB and complaints there exist. APB is too small to even need Spotting and Tagger already exists. Firework launcher also exists and its cheapness is also brought up every now and then by the community.

 

 

Example from Battlefield, the video and comments speak for themselves (as a side note, both APB and battlefield did nerfs and ttk increases, notice a trend here?):

 

Examples from Planetside 2:

This one also shows its exploitability. Spotting in APB doesn't work like this but still shows how cheap spotting can be & why APB should not follow anything remotely similar in essence:

https://www.planetside-universe.com/showthread.php?t=50192

 

-------------------------------------------------

1 hour ago, n0vaxp2 said:

That wasn't the point. If the AWP is disabled on a server then that means nobody can use it, but players still have equal access to all the other weapons. Weapons, modifications, and vehicles are locked behind progression that requires substantial playtime (especially in the case of weapon mods). New players don't have nearly the same amount of options compared to a more seasoned player which is inherently unfair in a competitive sense.

Then why must APB be ultra-competitive in order to make things more fair to everyone? Why are we clinging to APB's poor progression system? Clinging to a faulty-base will only produce a weak structure.

 

New Players sure don't have access to what those who grinded do, but this doesn't justify Spotter mod's existence or its need to remain in the game over the negatives it brings.

 

1 hour ago, n0vaxp2 said:

I regularly play in the silver servers and move to bronze when the population limit is reached on the silver ones. I see the field suppliers and blowtorch twice as often as I see spotter.

Being able to move to bronze means your threat is silver, so you are more likely to be matched away from high-tier players. This probably explains why you don't see Spotter as much.

 

Going with your observation, Spotter existing in lower-threat matches 33.3334% of the time is a problem to newcomers. Everyone knows what those naughty de-threaters are up to. Yeah, let us allow them to 'wallhax' newcomers as well...

 

1 hour ago, n0vaxp2 said:

Your concern seems to be with new players encountering someone with spotter equipped and getting destroyed, which is completely valid but I believe misses the mark. The better question to raise is why are new players encountering R195+ players in the first place. In that situation it doesn't matter if the R195+ player has spotter or not, they're naturally going to destroy the new player anyways.

Newplayer experience is only about half of the problem. The other and actually bigger part is those who make it through all the way. End game matters more just like in any game. When end-game is filled with cheap game-play mechanics, most people will have no reason to continue playing till rank-cap increases (which will take forever with APB). Even now, a big chunk of APB's community only watches streams and awaits news regarding the new engine and APB's future. When this many people aren't interested in playing, it is very clear that there are fundamental issues with game-play to address. Spotter mod is one of them.

 

I respond to your question with 2 points:

1- This type of rank segregation won't work with APB for many reasons (can't play with friends below R195, small community, etc). It is also hundreds of times more of a hassle than just getting rid of Spotter mod and adjusting the remainder of the cheap stuff.

2- Those who made it to R195+ should not even need Spotter to begin with.

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Although we are used to the mod, Spotter staying is really not great for APB's future. I honestly hope this gets addressed.

[Shamu 0]

 There is also A high rank contact that has a daily that requires the use of the mod and tagger will not work for it. Side note tagger and other forms of tags used to be able to be seen thru walls. Spotter is the only one left with this option.

[DORIUS 9]

21 hours ago, Lily Rain said:

Newcomers can be spotted IN THEIR CARS when driving to objectives, Spotter mod doesn't even require them to be on their feet.

 

21 hours ago, Lily Rain said:

Looking at the balancing trends of mods in APB, Spotter mod would have for instance made the person doing the spotting spotted themselves as well, would've discouraged the mod being used as much for obvious reasons. That would've made Spotter a "I am here, you are there, FITE ME NAO" kinda fun-gimmick mod, but sadly it is not. It is simply game-breaking with zero% repercussions.

Good ideas for nerf Spotter! 

[Nocolor 21]

Hold on? Remove spotter?, Naaaaaaaaah That isnt right.......  Either Nerf it or let it be like it is.

[Fortune Runner 796]

45 seconds until used again is too short of a time.

as for removing spotter I am against it since it is for coordinating attacks and language barriers make this needed now more than ever , if ever , but the timing definitely needs a change.

undecided on seeing through walls since a military sniper with their multi function scopes have thermal as well and can do that in real life. ( this is APB not real life which is why i am undecided )

 

[SmilyFace 300]

On 5/11/2020 at 7:36 AM, Cutey said:

<- Wallhack for Tryhards. Ruining the game.

Indeed, we alredy have Taggers and Firework, we don't need spotter.

I mean, how in the world a real life spotter can see enemies through walls x).

It's a game, but still, that's just garbage.

I would be okay for the complete removal and add a new mod replacing it, or adjusting it, changing how it works.

[Riario34 1]

Spotter and firework are two things that ruin competitive game experience. On Innova server we used to play clanwars and championship with certain rules that made game more "fair" for pvp.

Now game has so many ridiculous weapons and modes that make game no fun to play. As exp. Ursus, or SHOTGUN that kills you in a long distance. absurd

In my opinion, legal wallhacks, as it was said before, have no place in pvp games.

[Psuchi 16]

Speaking of legit wallhack, what about removing this kind of stupid final stage?

Or instead of seeing enemy's position exactly, just make an enemy presense indicator where you can see approximately their direction and their distance from you

[BlatMan 708]

On 5/11/2020 at 7:59 AM, 404 said:

there shouldn't be any "wallhack" effects available in apb imo, nothing should go past the level of the tagger mod

Even tagger is a bit OP. It shows your position even if your nametag and hitbox are not visible.

[CookiePuss 5377]

On 5/11/2020 at 12:36 AM, Cutey said:

<- Wallhack for people whom I cannot admit are better than me

FTFY

Also, your poll as created is useless.

Edited May 19, 2020 by CookiePuss

[DORIUS 9]

On 5/11/2020 at 8:36 AM, Cutey said:

<- Wallhack for Tryhards. Ruining the game.

It's a partial victory, congratulations! 
 

 

[BlatMan 708]

It's still game breaking, just like the flare and firework launcher. 

[Araun 7]

Dunno if somebody already suggested a " debuff ", but if replacing it with something new is out of a picture, why not just add a " spotted " effect on their head? So basically if you go in the range of the car, you get a icon on your head like from a spotted mod.

I mean, if we gonna " remove " radar, we also need to do something about spotter and flare gun or its just useless action. Like imagine you are going to liqueur shop past 22:00 and they tell you " sorry, we do not sale alcohol past 22:00 due country law, but if you go to our back entrance, you may find a bottle or two for cheap ". 

Edited July 27, 2020 by Araun