Why are you nerfing the NTEC?

[Flaws 1033]

14 hours ago, GhosT said:

 

Why is it that all your counter arguments are basically "lol ur bad git gud" and low key insults?

Can't you defend your precious N-TEC wtih actual facts or what? I love it when people have no real arguments to defend their crutch.

 

Yes, players will either stick to the slightly nerfed N-TEC or move on to FAR, NSSW, Obeya or whatnot, but all of the other options are at least a lot more balanced.

 

Also, stop trying to make "lol pick an oca to beat ntec" an argument, the OCA can't do anything against an N-TEC outside of its comfort zone, while the N-TEC continues to shred.

Because that's the sole reason why anyone whines about the N-TEC.

 

That example goes for almost every weapon, not just the OCA. Everything can shred the N-TEC at it's respective range, the N-TEC is versatile but never excels at anything more than it should. If you lose to an N-TEC where you shouldn't, that's your fault, not the weapon balancing's. It's very simple but somehow hard to understand for people who blindly screech that the N-TEC is overpowered and needs nerfing.

Edited September 23, 2019 by Flaws

[CookiePuss 5378]

5 minutes ago, Flaws said:

If you lose to an N-TEC where you shouldn't, that's your fault, not the weapon balancing's

[GhosT 1301]

1 hour ago, Flaws said:

Because that's the sole reason why anyone whines about the N-TEC.

 

That example goes for almost every weapon, not just the OCA. Everything can shred the N-TEC at it's respective range, the N-TEC is versatile but never excels at anything more than it should. If you lose to an N-TEC where you shouldn't, that's your fault, not the weapon balancing's. It's very simple but somehow hard to understand for people who blidnly screech that the N-TEC is overpowered and needs nerfing.

 

Here we go again with the "if u lose" argument.

It's not about losing or winning, it's more about how it's good enough to effectively fight close range guns (and long range guns) and still be impressively good at ranges these guns can't do anything at.

[Flaws 1033]

3 minutes ago, GhosT said:

 

Here we go again with the "if u lose" argument.

It's not about losing or winning, it's more about how it's good enough to effectively fight close range guns (and long range guns) and still be impressively good at ranges these guns can't do anything at.

That's why it's an assault rifle, that's how assault rifles work  They are supposed to be usable at most ranges to an extent, just like the N-TEC is. It doesn't excel, but it's good enough to hold it's ground from close range until a certain long range distance, it's that way in every game. The same way as assault rifles get outgunned by weapons that excel at thier respective range in every other game too. It's the choice of the players whether they want to cover a specific range or they want a more versatile choice that requires more effort over covering a single range effectively with less effort. The N-TEC is solo friendly but if you roll 4 N-TECs in a team, you won't get far, not against another team of the same skill level anyway. They could have OCAs/Shotguns, marksmanship weapons, snipers and all of those are capable of outgunning the N-TEC if they are decent players.

[GhosT 1301]

1 minute ago, Flaws said:

That's why it's an assault rifle, that's how assault rifles work  They are supposed to be usable at most ranges to an extent, just like the N-TEC is. It doesn't excel, but it's good enough to hold it's ground from close range until a certain long range distance, it's that way in every game. The same way as assault rifles get outgunned by weapons that excel at thier respective range in every other game too. It's the choice of the players whether they want to cover a specific range or they want a more versatile choice that requires more effort over covering a single range effectively with less effort. The N-TEC is solo friendly but if you roll 4 N-TECs in a team, you won't get far, not against another team of the same skill level anyway. They could have OCAs/Shotguns, marksmanship weapons, snipers and all of those are capable of outgunning the N-TEC if they are decent players.

 

That's not how assault rifles work in APB, seeing as the N-TEC is the only one that strong.

[VanilleKeks 737]

I can see the ammo nerf being reasonable, the other one not so much. The only thing that bothers me with the Ntec is how agressive it can be in cqc. All though this isn't an objective flaw, as it is a combination of stats and player skill. 

 

I've always preferred the play style of the scoped ntec, which can shred even harder on marksmanship mode after some practice, but is rather limited when it comes to going doomguy around corners. 

 

My personal suggestion has always been to make the ntec similar to the scoped ntec, but give it a little touch of love as well. 

[vsb 6171]

13 minutes ago, GhosT said:

That's not how assault rifles work in APB, seeing as the N-TEC is the only one that strong.

i don't particularly care about the ntec but to say that ARs don't function as viable multi-range weapons is kind of dumb

 

the star, the far, the raptor, the atac, even the aces rifle are all designed to be versatile over multiple ranges - currently i think the misery and the issra are the only odd man out in the AR class (mostly because they're doodoo), but even they attempt to be mid to long range hybrids

 

edit: added more guns

Edited September 22, 2019 by Solamente
edit

[GhosT 1301]

1 minute ago, Solamente said:

i don't particularly care about the ntec but to say that ARs don't function as viable multi-range weapons is kind of dumb

 

the star, the far, the raptor, the atac, even the aces rifle are all designed to be versatile over multiple ranges - currently i think the misery and the issra are the only odd man out in the AR class (mostly because its doodoo), but even that attempts to be a mid to long range hybrid

 

edit: added more guns

 

They are, though none of them are as strong as the N-TEC at all ranges, they mostly require more skill or awareness. The N-TEC just does everything a little too easily.

[TheJellyGoo 343]

I'm not sure the "other games" argument is in anyway more potent than the "if u lose" argument...

 

N-TEC ttk is just way to close to cq-weapons considering it's versatility over all ranges thus competing at longer ranges with cq ttk's (no other AR is that versatile).

That's just simple logic. If you have a Jack of all Trades gun it cannot be good in anything... but it is. It dominates midrange and brings that strength into cq and longrange.

Cut some range (accuracy/bloom/effective range) and/or some ttk and you actually have a be decent at all but not dominant in anything weapon.

Apparently that's what some here want unless they spewed some hypocritical nonsense to keep their favorite toy.

Edited September 22, 2019 by TheJellyGoo

[GhosT 1301]

10 minutes ago, TheJellyGoo said:

I'm not sure the "other games" argument is in anyway more potent than the "if u lose" argument...

 

N-TEC ttk is just way to close to cq-weapons considering it's versatility over all ranges thus competing at longer ranges with cq ttk's (no other AR is that versatile).

That's just simple logic. If you have a Jack of all Trades gun it cannot be good in anything... but it is. It dominates midrange and brings that strength into cq and longrange.

Cut some range (accuracy/bloom/effective range) and/or some ttk and you actually have a be decent at all but not dominant in anything weapon.

Apparently that's what some here want unless they spewed some hypocritical nonsense to keep their favorite toy.

 

Couldn't have said it any better.

 

The N-TEC doesn't even need drastical changes, just needs a little something done to it so it isn't as strong in cqc and long range as it is now.

The only change I ever wanted for it was slower accuracy recovery so you can't spam it as much at range. It's just too easy to outgun weapons like the obeya even if the obeya started shooting first.

Edited September 22, 2019 by GhosT

[Farmiga 19]

The real problem with the N-TEC is not that it needs to be nerfed, the other assault rifles must be buffed so that they have the same possibilities as the N-TEC and until that does not change everyone will continue using that weapon

[AxeTurboAgresor 268]

FAR is way way way waaaay better in cqc than N-TEC. Even ATAC is better in cqc than N-TEC. So.. WTF are those cqc arguments?

OCA/PMG/ACES Rifle (ACES SMG sucks patootie) are better in CQC.

Iam a FAR guy. I prefer FAR in most situations over NTEC, but NTEC is better in mid-long range. 

So I find all this cry about NTEC being OP very funny, but also very scary becouse of how many ppl actualy belive this.

 

What about fixing other weapons first? "Misery" is actually an AR that does not excell in any range...

Edited September 22, 2019 by AxeTurboAgresor

[Fortune Runner 796]

7 hours ago, GhosT said:

 

Couldn't have said it any better.

 

The N-TEC doesn't even need drastical changes, just needs a little something done to it so it isn't as strong in cqc and long range as it is now.

The only change I ever wanted for it was slower accuracy recovery so you can't spam it as much at range. It's just too easy to outgun weapons like the obeya even if the obeya started shooting first.

I think its been a month or two now.

I had a nfas shotgun and was unloading first on a guy with a N-Tec but every single time  I'd die first.

an adjustment that can fix cqc on N-tec would be nice ( I mean N-Fas is broken but losing?)

[Noob_Guardian 417]

11 hours ago, Solamente said:

i don't particularly care about the ntec but to say that ARs don't function as viable multi-range weapons is kind of dumb

 

the star, the far, the raptor, the atac, even the aces rifle are all designed to be versatile over multiple ranges - currently i think the misery and the issra are the only odd man out in the AR class (mostly because they're doodoo), but even they attempt to be mid to long range hybrids

 

edit: added more guns

and their niches are

star - cqc - 40-45m ttk .75

far cqc -55m ttk .7

atac 0-35m ttk .7

raptor cqc .7?

aces rifle 0-35m ~.7?

issra 20m-midrange over .73

misery - unsure

ntec 0-65ish .7

 

The problem is that the ntec isn't "viable" in the same sense. Star isn't nearly as effective at longer ranges due to ttk, even with it being easy to use, it still loses to most mid-far range weapons and cqc weapons despite it supposed to be more "cqc". Far can compete better than the star with more accuracy but will still lose out due to bloom recovery at range against ntec. Atac is meant for more cqc with a touch of midrange, mostly oca range. raptor is primarily cqc to slightly midrange.

Aces rifle is mostly cqc but a little midrange etc mostly oca range. NTEC goes cqc to a bit further than midrange, and generally dominates most other AR's in that range due to ease of use, forgiveness, and easily harasses obeya users in  the obeya's 0-60m range "base" range excluding damage drop range.

 

10 hours ago, Gaiz said:

The real problem with the N-TEC is not that it needs to be nerfed, the other assault rifles must be buffed so that they have the same possibilities as the N-TEC and until that does not change everyone will continue using that weapon

you mean that they should buff all what? 7-9 assault rifles because of one weapon? LOL that's a logistical nightmare, and they even buffed like HALF of that roster already TO NO AVAIL.

Edited September 23, 2019 by Noob_Guardian

[CookiePuss 5378]

5 minutes ago, Noob_Guardian said:

You mean that they should buff all what? 7-9 assault rifles because of one weapon? 

Just the ones that will need to be changed anyways. 

 

COBR-A

ISSR-a

AR-97 Misery

 

I'd personally like an easier to use STAR for an improved new player experience. 

 

I'd also be interested to see a Frenzy with all the same stats including ttk, but with one less stk (and obv a reduced fire rate).

 

ATAC is fine, FAR is fine, Raptors are fine. 

 

And for me at least, regardless of what is done with the N-TEC 5 or 7, these are all things I'd suggest be looked at anyways. 

 

 

[vsb 6171]

16 minutes ago, Noob_Guardian said:

and their niches are

star - cqc - 40-45m ttk .75

far cqc -55m ttk .7

atac 0-35m ttk .7

raptor cqc .7?

aces rifle 0-35m ~.7?

issra 20m-midrange over .73

misery - unsure

ntec 0-65ish .7

weird list

 

if you want them grouped by raw effectiveness you get this

ntec: 0-50m (.7s)

ursus: 0-50m (.7s)

far: 0-50m (.7s)
 

atac: 0-50m (.7s)

raptor: 0-50m (.75s)

star: 0-50m (.75s)

frenzy: 0-50m (.69s)

aces rifle: 0-40m (.72s)

 

lcr: 0-100m (1.14s/1.2s)

 

trash

cobra: 0-50m (.85s)

misery: 0-50m (.92s)

issra: 0-50m (.84s)
 

 

if you want them grouped by optimal range you can't really use ttk as it varies pretty heavily (yes i use ir3 on my star don't @ me)

ntec: 20-57m 

ursus: 20-57m 

far: 20-57m 
star: 20-57m

frenzy: 20-57m

 

atac: 0-40m

raptor: 0-40m 

aces rifle: 0-40m 

 

lcr: 50-100m 

 

trash

cobra: 0-57m 

misery: 20-57m 

issra: 20-57m

 

 

55 minutes ago, Noob_Guardian said:

The problem is that the ntec isn't "viable" in the same sense. Star isn't nearly as effective at longer ranges due to ttk, even with it being easy to use, it still loses to most mid-far range weapons and cqc weapons despite it supposed to be more "cqc". Far can compete better than the star with more accuracy but will still lose out due to bloom recovery at range against ntec. Atac is meant for more cqc with a touch of midrange, mostly oca range. raptor is primarily cqc to slightly midrange.

Aces rifle is mostly cqc but a little midrange etc mostly oca range. NTEC goes cqc to a bit further than midrange, and generally dominates most other AR's in that range due to ease of use, forgiveness, and easily harasses obeya users in  the obeya's 0-60m range "base" range excluding damage drop range.

the ursus/far are both just as "viable in the same sense" as the ntec, the star's ttk has no real bearing on ranged fights because no AR is hitting min ttk once you have to start tapfiring, and slightly offtopic but the condor and atac occupy the same niche with one having better accuracy and one having better ttk

 

nerfing the ntec will only reduce the AR variety even further and in the worst way, as you've removed the best pure f2p option - because of this the obeya gets even less competition and a significant chunk of players will migrate to that, further imbalancing ranged combat

 

 

49 minutes ago, Noob_Guardian said:

you mean that they should buff all what? 7-9 assault rifles because of one weapon? LOL that's a logistical nightmare, and they even buffed like HALF of that roster already TO NO AVAIL.

there's 4 ARs (frenzy, cobra, misery, issr-a) that would have to be buffed to "compete" with the ntec, and 3 of them (cobra, misery, issr-a) need to be buffed regardless because they're dogshit and the obeya needs more threats

 

 

[Thial 176]

It's not because ntec is too op. It's because it's too versatile as opposed to other weapons.

[Kakalaki 65]

14 hours ago, Gaiz said:

The real problem with the N-TEC is not that it needs to be nerfed, the other assault rifles must be buffed so that they have the same possibilities as the N-TEC and until that does not change everyone will continue using that weapon

star556 is almost as good as the ntec ... in Close range it beats ntec on the longer range ntec is a Little better

[Spy 152]

Here's what most likely is going to happen:

 

• Not enough testers in test districts to get proper LO judgement
• LO listens to average Joe 'Neh' and only nerfs the jumping, just to shut them up
• LO listens to the tryhards and fanboys crying that their precious overpowered NTEC is being questioned so they won't change anything else but the jumping that hardly anyone requested

Imho, there's really no need to discuss this because I think LO has already made up its mind.

[Kakalaki 65]

1 minute ago, Spy said:

Here's what most likely is going to happen:

 

• Not enough testers in test districts to get proper LO judgement
• LO listens to average Joe 'Neh' and only nerfs the jumping, just to shut them up
• LO listens to the tryhards and fanboys crying that their precious overpowered NTEC is being questioned so they won't change anything else but the jumping that hardly anyone requested

Imho, there's really no need to discuss this because I think LO has already made up its mind.

 

[vsb 6171]

15 minutes ago, Spy said:

Here's what most likely is going to happen:

 

• Not enough testers in test districts to get proper LO judgement
• LO listens to average Joe 'Neh' and only nerfs the jumping, just to shut them up
• LO listens to the tryhards and fanboys crying that their precious overpowered NTEC is being questioned so they won't change anything else but the jumping that hardly anyone requested

Imho, there's really no need to discuss this because I think LO has already made up its mind.

is it really that surprising that LO might listen to tryhards better players when it comes to understanding the mechanics and balance of the game?

[TheJellyGoo 343]

6 hours ago, Solamente said:

weird list

 

if you want them grouped by raw effectiveness you get this

ntec: 0-50m (.7s)

ursus: 0-50m (.7s)

far: 0-50m (.7s)
 

atac: 0-50m (.7s)

raptor: 0-50m (.75s)

star: 0-50m (.75s)

frenzy: 0-50m (.69s)

aces rifle: 0-40m (.72s)

 

lcr: 0-100m (1.14s/1.2s)

 

trash

cobra: 0-50m (.85s)

misery: 0-50m (.92s)

issra: 0-50m (.84s)
 

 

if you want them grouped by optimal range you can't really use ttk as it varies pretty heavily (yes i use ir3 on my star don't @ me)

ntec: 20-57m 

ursus: 20-57m 

far: 20-57m 
star: 20-57m

frenzy: 20-57m

 

atac: 0-40m

raptor: 0-40m 

aces rifle: 0-40m 

 

lcr: 50-100m 

 

trash

cobra: 0-57m 

misery: 20-57m 

issra: 20-57m

 

[...]

Hard pass. That's not "raw effectiveness" or "optimal range" that's 'raw numbers' on just a fraction of what needs to be taken into account.

You conveniently left out things like accuracy radius, recovery and other modifiers which will leave everything in the dust behind the N-TECs 'real effectiveness'.

Also you can't just drop the ttk. Yes, they won't hit their perfect ttks but that goes for every gun (also in reality N-TEC will be the one to hit it most consistently again).

Putting things like the FAR on same max optimal range speaks volumes about the credibility of this breakdown.

[vsb 6171]

5 minutes ago, TheJellyGoo said:

Hard pass. That's not "raw effectiveness" or "optimal range" that's 'raw numbers' on just a fraction of what needs to be taken into account.

You conveniently left out things like accuracy radius, recovery and other modifiers which will leave everything in the dust behind the N-TECs 'real effectiveness'.

Also you can't just drop the ttk. Yes, they won't hit their perfect ttks but that goes for every gun (also in reality N-TEC will be the one to hit it most consistently again).

Putting things like the FAR on same max optimal range speaks volumes about the credibility of this breakdown.

i was just reusing the other guy's list format, and i've still thrown the ntec at the top i just don't see it as the wildly op monster some others do

 

you can definitely cut out min ttk for most ARs, with the exception of the trash category that have such high base ttks that it effects every range, no one is full autoing 50m enemies 

 

the far pretty easily goes nearly toe to toe with the ntec, its definitely not equal but its close

[TheJellyGoo 343]

6 minutes ago, Solamente said:

i was just reusing the other guy's list format, and i've still thrown the ntec at the top i just don't see it as the wildly op monster some others do

 

you can definitely cut out min ttk for most ARs, with the exception of the trash category that have such high base ttks that it effects every range, no one is full autoing 50m enemies 

 

the far pretty easily goes nearly toe to toe with the ntec, its definitely not equal but its close

You "grouped" them. There is no word of weapons being listed in order in their respective groups but fair enough.

 

As for the rest I guess we both said what we think and where our position on the matter is.

[Player1 12]

Ntec is definitly to strong in ccq, just hipfire and ran like a idiot, its definitly to easy but thats only one in my opinion where it needs to get nerfed