Unclean

Well either one.. I just meant that way of releasing something in phases is all

True. I wouldn't mind large spread with hip firing.. it would punish those thinking it can do all

or.... We get rid of the threat system

While I fully agree that there is no other game like APB, I completely don't understand you way of thinking here. I, personally, am not willing to spend any money on a game which is running in arguably beta state for 8 years. Cool, but myself and others are willing to support the game we all enjoy to ensure it gets the budget it needs to get out of the horrific state it's been stuck in thanks to the thousands of unneeded, un-editable lines of code thanks to the engine limitations... and receive fresh goodies for our contributions

Under 10m, other shotguns beat it, after 30 m ARs beat it. If it has a fixed red choke on it (basically forcing ir3 or similar to it) then it slows the fire rate and decreases the spread forcing the player to aim down sights more efficiently and makes the weapon less forgiving. again, the range of this weapon isn't the problem. It's the fact that it's making smgs irrelevant. By slowing the firerate a d taking away the ability to add cj3, we eliminate this problem.

The weapon does 41.6% HP damage if enough pellets hit, and is never a 2-shot kill (not even to fragile users) at 45m this gun is hardly a support weapon. 10m-30m is where this weapon shines.. If they lock a red mod on it, then it'll nerf the CQC power which seems to be the problem right now. The range of this gun is not the issue. It's meant to be effective farther out than other shotguns. The issue is that right now, if you slap CJ3 on it, it's effective from 1mmm-25m and nothing can beat it.. except a JG with CJ3 lol

If every weapon would become viable, it means that every weapon would become a viable purchase. True.. but this takes baby steps.. and we see what happens when new weapons enter meta standards. There's no way to really tell LO who to listen to, and no way to tell the community to have patience with the changes as we ramp up (or down) to bring weapons into a viable standard.. I agree, but without knowing what kind of budget LO is working with, I'm scared that APB will fall into the forgotten realm of great f2p games like Blacklight, Dirty Bomb, and lots of other examples I'm too lazy to think of atm.. Having a phase based release will give LO a chance to release new content, get more money up front, with the promise of releasing further content later, and still focus on the engine and servers themselves. The other ideas I threw around with Hexerin like mods and such may help new players, but that's not really what this pack would be about.. It's more about us supporting LO with the budget towards the upgrades that really matter. You're completely right about adding new weapons. It will only make balancing existing ones harder and also add in more characteristics that make it harder to keep weapons different, but that's one of the reasons I said we should either only really look into reskins, slotted legendaries, or player suggestions. Even if it were just reskins of certain weapons or a pack of weapons that we haven't had the chance to mod like legendaries or any of the examples Hexerin brought up, plus clothing or a car kit.. People will still buy it in a game like APB. Adding loyalty rewards helps the game, but doesn't justify actually spending more money in the ARMAS marketplace when we know changes to ARMAS will happen in the future. A bundle where you know you're getting a great deal with phases of new goodies afterwards does very well though.. That's why AAA games are doing their annual or season passes (that only cover actual seasons) instead of the old season passes that may give you everything.. it's the promise of more content without having to deliver it all at once and really hold back the team from working on the things that matter.. On the other hand, if LO has a budget suited for what they are going for without any help, then more power to them..

Fair is fair.. I asked for your input lol I just hope they have enough to sustain the workload through all their upgrades and updates to keep it alive.

Must just seem that way because of the weird latency sometimes then lol.. The only things I have against LTL really is ease of use (cheap tactics are in lethal gameplay as well though), takes so long when time is a main factor in missions, and that there is no protection from it.. On topic: I wonder if modifications would sell well in ARMAS.. shortcuts for those under R195 and such. If they are introduced, I don't think the one ones currently in game should be made untradable though. Just something to help those getting into the game or rerolling

A 3-slot reskin to the LCR made to look like an SA58-OSW to be a modern version of the Spartan....

Stats wise for TTS compared to TTK are bad, yes, but from what I remember LTL has that slight AoE that can hit around corners/cover and the recoil and spread are incredibly managable compared to lethal weapons.. I could be wrong though since it has been a while since I used them myself. To me, criminals doing LTL makes no sense... it would be fair, BUT it would only bring the two factions closer, and I personally think we should be doing the opposite.. Giving Criminals (balanced) lethal weapons of their own that have different characteristics and giving enforcers a way to make money outside of missions like hacking or something seems like a good way to go Ah, I didn't know about the engine limitations.. I knew there would be some secondaries that would be pretty powerful with mods, but there are usually easy fixes for that either involving effective ranges or magazine size/reload speed... I don't think ALL secondaries could allow slots, but some of the less used ones could definitely use a one-slot variant. I guess it'll all have to wait though.

I honestly forgot the Juggernaut pack did the same thing.. and yes, the packs are freaking amazing with the amount of content you get for just having a bit of patience.. Also sorry... I don't know you very well.... next time I'll remember

Sorry lol.. people were asking why Tobii was special, so I added more who could add actual feedback, and thank you for it As long as it doesn't mean broken weapons, I'd be down for this.. I play as criminal and would feel left out, but at the same time I think we'll see crim weapons with time. I would love to see more open slot legendaries or something similar in loyalty rewards as well. I also think 1 or 2-open slot secondaries would sell like CRAZY

I'm not sure how to fix the Misery without making it like another weapon..... but.... We should get an SA58-OSW 3 slot reskin of the Star LCR to be in the same family as the Spartan, but more modern lol

that's special in my book There booboo, you're there too now

I know. But he's the only very known member of both the game and the forums that actually rationalizes how he feels about the game in it's current state and ideas. I'd tag Kemp, but he's not as active as he was in the past and cookie is just a troll. I'd tag Pound, but he'd rather be playing the game than on the forums. I'd tag ghost, but I'm not sure if he's been playing or not.

@Lixil @MattScott @Tobii@GhosT @Hexerin @NotZombieBiscuit @Kempington I really want to support LO and all that's going on.. I know right now may be tough with people criticizing the company just from something like the meta changes, and with having patience (not everyone can understand baby steps) in the changes and while you all figure out what to do with not only in-game balance changes, but with ARMAS. I also know that it must bring morale down when you read threads about sales and read things like "let's wait until they figure it out" even though I agree, and you probably do too... Selling stuff right now and then changing the way the store works/prices in the store would cause a lot of grief and support tickets. But I have a solution to both you, who needs morale in the office, and those of us who want to support you with our earned money. When the Revelations pack was first released, it was called an "early access pass" and came out in 3 phases over a couple months' time period. This "pass" is considered one of the best deals on ARMAS, and one of the first things people with more purchasing "experience" tell people to get since you get more bang for your buck. If you are working on more content (I'm sure you are), then a suggestion I have for you to is to create a bundle just like the revelations pass with an upfront cost that covers just a couple simple things like cosmetics or maybe a car kit for the coywolf and a variant to a legendary or reskin to a gun. To do this right, you will need to look into old files to see what is a WIP and look through suggestions.. I have a few of my own, but I'm confident that the community can provide more than enough. Then it's up to you on how long you take to really sort this out and what to release in each phase. This gives you the opportunity to create revenue for your team in upgrading to UE3.5 and then further on to UE4 to allow more content and gives you plenty of time to create and release the content from each phase at your own pace with the money upfront from those who want to save money by buying into the bundle and also from those who would rather wait and buy the weapons and cosmetics as standalone items in ARMAS for a higher rate than if they were to just buy the whole bundle. I would also think about adding more loyalty rewards as those who may be close to said rewards would most likely spend a bit more here and there to reach each new reward. Yes, you should be focusing on the game engine, how it runs, and it's protection.. but you cannot allow yourselves to fall short of your goals because you run out of drive and money to do so. No other game is like APB. Let's keep it around, update it to modern standards, and see how far we can take it.

afternoons.. and weekends.. But I agree with @Hexerinthat they need to hold off on sales until they figure out what they are really doing with ARMAS

It's gets beaten by mid range weapons like ARs in mid+ range where ARs niche is, beaten by other shotguns in closer range, and rewards those who aim instead of hip fire.. It's only broken if it outperforms weapons made for mid range at mid range which it doesn't, or beats out CQC weapons which it doesn't.. The changes being made to the shredder take it from a .74 TTK which is already higher than ARs and relevant smgs to .84.. This will definitely help with things, but limits it's usability. I just dislike that once any weapon actually hits meta standards, it's shot down for reasons like... people not owning the weapon and actually using it to see what it can use to limit it's potential.. like a locked red mod. by default the gun isn't broken, it's just good.. and there's nothing wrong with that. It's when you speed up the ttk to be under .7 and you still have that reliability is when trouble hits. I still prefer to run it with IR3 myself lol

What if they permanently slapped a choke (red mod) on all shredders? Gives it the range, and takes away the ability to equip CJ3 (which seems to be the problem to most.. I only use IR3 on it) Shotguns are supposed to be strong in CQC since they are very niche weapons. The shredder, however, is supposed to be able to reach out of that niche and be a good weapon for close-mid range and be effective to soft and hard targets. It simply should not be as strong in CQC. I'm not sure how to make the JG okay.. maybe just make the damage dropoff after the effective range much steeper or something similar.

They can multitask.. I heard that's a thing.. weapon mods=/=player mods

Kuwait "deployment" detected lol.

I guess it makes the CSG sit between the JG and the shredder... But I think the change is still a little bit drastic. The CSG, JG, and NFAS should have lower TTK than the shredder because they are limited to those ranges. I admit I haven't used the csg/tas20 since the change, but the fact that I don't see it as much as the other weapons means people aren't finding it as useful as the shredder and JG. On a side note, I got like 6 reactions to my "less nerf, more buff" comment within one minute hours after I posted it so I'm guessing it was misinterpreted lol. I just want the weapons that aren't used at all to be brought up to a playable standard like the ARs and shotguns are being brought up to. I'mm sure we will see more PMGs after OCA gets it's little nerf, but the rest of the SMGs need a little love. The Norseman and Colby 1922 are almost never used anymore

except that neither of those are one handed shotguns.. certainly not secondaries. LO gave us a new weapon type for secondaries. Praise be. legendary version is like going ADS with thumper

I'm thinking something like -200-245 health damage -automatic, but very slow -30-45m range -high hard damage-around same as hp damage -very small AOE -Mobility like coroner -low recoil, but high spread unless in ADS -8 (?) magazine size and 32 reserves -NOT a JMB weapon