notHunky

The only real issues where LTL becomes OP are the result of the PIG having the ability to be hot garbage with certain weapon combinations like percs, ISSR B, and more rarely shotguns (the latter being more common in fightclub). Also I'm annoyed by the fact that fragile and Kevlar don't take stamina damage into account at all. Kevlar increases your health to resist damage from lethal bullets, but somehow is completely bypassed by beanbags and taser rounds. Meanwhile fragile just acts like a straight buff because your stamina is not reduced along with your health value.

Do YOU even think before you speak? Your table just proved my point about the Artemis and Dog ear doing way higher amounts of damage to vehicles compared to other weapons. According to your own table, the Artemis and Shredder will have the exact same hard damage per second once they revert the rate of fire LMAO. Also the Shredder has always been one of the best shotguns to use for drive bys or against vehicles, so why is it only an issue now? Yes I do think it's fine for the shredder as an automatic shotgun to have better range, accuracy, and ammo capacity because it's not an NFAS. The only thing those two weapons have in common is that they are both automatic shotguns. One kills you almost immediately but has garbage accuracy and therefore range, the other out-ranges all other shotguns but has the 2nd slowest TTK of all shotguns only being faster than the Strife or pump shotguns with IR3. Even then it will still be out-ranged by pretty much any assault rifle which isn't the ACES. I thoroughly tested the Shredder's range in OTW with friends and we found the shotgun could only 3 shot kill within around 25 to 27 meters. regardless of if IR3 was installed or not. Basically if you're over 30 meters, the enemy has to take at least 4 shots and cannot kill you under 1.20 seconds. If they're using CJ3 where the 3 shot kill range is reduced to around 23 meters, then the minimum TTK beyond that point becomes 1.17 seconds at 4 shots. If you're somehow still managing to lose consistently against a Shredder from over 35 meters, you're probably a bronze.

That’s why they’re making the fire rate lower. The trade off is supposed to be the Shredder has a longer TTK than other shotguns and needs to be used while aiming down the sights, in exchange for being able to reach out further than other shotguns. The JG should be better under 10 to 15 meters, while the Shredder should beat the JG from 16 to 30ish meters. Then the Ntec should outperform the Shredder at anything over 35 meters. Also the Dog Ear and Artemis are able to destroy people and cars alike at a much further distance than the Shredder. Maybe the per pellet damage multiplier could be reduced along with the fire rate to make the shotgun less forgiving, but if you’re running straight into an automatic shotgun user with your car and expecting not to be heavily damaged, you’re doing it wrong.

Says the person who constantly reminds us about the Shredder (an armas item) being too strong.

I like how when I point out that some Armas items are borderline overpowered, the general response was “lol get gud”. Yet when my favorite weapon goes from being mediocre garbage to absolutely destroying everything within 25 meters, everyone collectively loses their mind and forgets about all the other weapons which will easily destroy the Shredder at any range past 40 meters or within hugging distance. If you can beat an ATAC user, then you can kill a Shredder. They basically play the same way. “Lol get gud”.

That's why I mentioned the volcano. I use it to air burst people out of cheap camping spots/rooftops with the item so we actually have a chance at winning. But not everyone owns a volcano and god help you if your team has not yet unlocked an OPGL either. Yeah I guess that doesn't really address the main issue I was going for. My biggest complaint with VIP is when they can just run the whole time by equipping car surfer and a deployable shield to become nigh untouchable when on top of a Vegas 4x4 circling the map at sanic speed. And that isn't even factoring in if they have another car escorting them. I think you're misunderstanding what I mean by car delivery missions. It's those missions where you have to grab 2 or 3 separate vehicles and drive them all to one drop off point. What tends to happen is the last car keeps getting blown up before you can get it out of the spawn area. The events tend to go in the following order: The enemy blows up the objective vehicle right after you get inside it, because the vehicle is either already heavily damaged, and/or there's an ALIG hiding around a corner. You respawn and clear out the area by killing the entire enemy team to get the car safely. It doesn't matter because the entire enemy team spawns like 50 meters away from the objective and blows you up again. Rinse and repeat.

I think the 2v2 issues could be solved if both teams were allowed to call backup until each team has at least 3 or 4 players. Some other balances are desperately needed though: VIP missions are just a painful experience regardless of which side I play on. They take way too long and really need an overhaul of some sort. I think it would be MUCH better to do it the way Asylum has it so that each team has a VIP to protect. Item hold missions are just a mess. there are way too many cheesy ways to make the mission unwinnable if the attacking team doesn't have a Volcano or car surfer + ALIG. At the moment I am unsure how they could be reworked in a way which makes them less annoying/unfair. Someone mentioned car delivery missions are also quite annoying when people keep blowing up the vehicles right after they spawn. Maybe make it so that anyone who destroys a delivery mission vehicle automatically get a bounty placed on them, regardless of which team they're on? Delivery missions can range anywhere from absolutely fine to HELL ON EARTH. I think this has more to do with the way players interact with items than the mission type itself. For example, if your team's drop off location is in a place where it's hard/impossible to bring a vehicle next to, AND all the objectives are all heavy items. Two things can be done about this. 1. For the love of god get rid of heavy items as an objective when items cannot be dropped off from inside your vehicle. 2. Make it so that players can move at full speed with medium items, but restrict the use of their weapons. This way people don't need to use janky workarounds like continuously dropping suitcases while jumping to move around faster.

I have absolutely no idea how you came to that conclusion. Just... what?!

Unfortunately from what I’ve tested with friends on OTW, I don’t think this would be quite enough as I’d still be able to 3 shot people at 22 meters with CJ3 just because of how tight the spread is over range and how much over damage this weapon has. We found currently that the base spread of shotguns has a much greater effect on the overall effective range than damage drop off. For example we tested a shredder with different mods at several distances within 30 meters using a flare gun to measure distance. - With IR3 the shredder was 3 shotting reliably at around 28 meters - unmodified it was about the same. - With CJ3, the 3 shot range was reduced to around 22 or 23 meters due to the increased spread. The same effect is even more apparent on the Thumper where aiming causes the pellet spread to be reduced significantly. The damage drop off never changes, but tightening the spread with mechanical choke makes the thing reach out close to 20 meters with 3 shots. Granted I wasn’t able to measure any distances in controlled conditions with the thumper like I was the Shredder, but I noticed a huge difference in fight club. With this in mind, I’m thinking maybe an alternative suggestion may be needed other than just nerfing the range a bit, so I’d like to suggest a different balance test. What if we gave the Shredder the same damage drop off as the NFAS (20 - 30 meters), BUT decrease the fire interval to 0.2 and increase the amount of shots to kill to 5 with a decent chunk of over damage while increasing magazine size to 12? That way, it behaves less like a 3 hit wonder gun which can do anything, but it’s still able to kill at 40 meters if you dump 8 to 10 rounds into the enemy? For an idea of what that translates into, TTK at ranges under 25 meters would be 0.8 at 5 shots to kill, and the TTK at around 30-40ish meters would be 1.4 seconds at 8 shots to kill.

Ntec mains - "shredder is OP" Yeah if you try to face tank a shotgun under 20 meters with a weapon which is supposed to be for medium ranges ^^ But speaking seriously here, I've owned a shredder far before it was actually viable and it really does need some change to actually be viable compared to how it was. Right now yes it is OP because of the increased range, increased reliability (due to pellet changes), and increased fire rate. Let's go back for a moment to evaluate where this weapon was before it was OP. On release, the weapon was supposed to a shotgun to have a bit more range compared to other shotguns, in exchange for having a slower rate of fire and needing to be used in marksman mode for any form of consistency. The problem here was the weapon was never consistent to begin with and would ironically get shredded in close range against other weapons with a far lower TTK. Right now the range combined with the higher fire rate makes this weapon too effective, but I don't want it to go back to being a shotgun that sucks at being a shotgun. I think it should still have a niche of being an automatic shotgun which reaches out a bit farther than the NFAS, so what if the damage dropoff was made to be the same as the JG (7.5-15 meters without IR3 and 15-25 meters with IR3), but keep the better fire rate it has now? For comparison, the Shredder's range is at 20-40 meters without IR3, and 27.5-47.5 meters with IR3. In testing I could only get it to reliably kill in 3 shots within 27 meters with IR3, and 23 meters with CJ3. The thing is, even though the CSG has a much lower damage dropoff than the NFAS (which has a dropoff of 10-20 meters), the CSG still performs much better at range than the NFAS because it has a much tighter spread and can land more hits than an NFAS at anything outside of point blank range. I think the Shredder also has this advantage and the 20-40 damage drop off on top of it's already tiny pellet spread is what makes it overkill at the moment. TL;DR: Keep the better fire rate, reduce the damage dropoff to the same as a JG/CSG without IR3.

I'm starting to suspect these extremely poor grammar shitposts against Little Orbit are either alternate accounts or bot accounts.

Honestly I think the "name and shame" rule is kind of absurd/outdated at this point. In most cases we saw it being used as an excuse to lock down complaints or discussions back when G1 was in charge. Also I really can't think of any other games which have a similar policy either. Point is if someone is acting poorly/violating terms of service, I don't see what the issue is with other users calling out people on bad behavior, especially if they have evidence or recordings to back it up.

I don't see how anything would have played out much differently if that video example were to take place before the shotgun buffs. Everyone got mowed down because they ran face first into the shotgun at point blank range like an idiot lol.

The DOW is fine. It's just a worse NFAS which is semi automatic, can't be shot out of vehicle windows, and has to be reloaded manually with each shell. It's only saving grace is that aiming activates a mechanical choke and focuses all the pellets into a much tighter area to extend your range a little.

Ok maybe more like 30 or 35ish at most, but that’s still nearly double the effective range of most shotguns in the game. My point is many SMGs are more versatile than shotguns as a whole, and that shotguns should be able to perform a bit better at extremely close ranges in the meta of things.

There are other CQC guns. Yes and they perform better at ranges around 20 to 40 meters than most shotguns. Shotguns are just supposed to be really specialized at point blank range (under 10 meters) with the exception of the Shredder which is supposed to be more versatile like an ATAC in exchange for having a longer TTK. They are going to revert the fire rate buff to better reflect that. Edit: do the people who keep down voting care to elaborate their position on the matter?

The Watchman is the worst variant of all the ATACs. With that said it definitely does not need a buff, just don’t use it the same way you would an NTEC because they are not designed to fill the same role. The ATAC is supposed to play more like a carbine in that it bridges the gap between SMGs and other assault rifles to create its own niche. It’s not pinpoint accurate but all you need to do is close the distance to within about 40 meters and WASD dodge while aiming if the other person doesn’t have adequate cover to hide behind. If they do have cover, just suppress or flank them.

Sometimes I aim for center mass with red crosshairs and it misses. Other times my shot is clearly off by like 2 feet to the left and they drop dead anyway.

How about you just not engage shotgun users within their preferred range at under 10 meters where they are supposed to be strongest? Bad tactics shouldn’t be an excuse to revert an entire class of weapons back to being an RNG cannon.

Why is it that everything needs to perform worse than an NTEC in every possible situation even within the shredder’s intended niche? It’s supposed to be a shotgun with better range and versatility. Have you guys considered maybe, I don’t know... not engaging Shredders with MIDRANGE assault rifles from under 30 meters?

I think the matchmaking and the missions themselves need a big overhaul. There's a few instances I'm seeing where like 4 golds grouped together getting matched against 3 silvers and a random gold, and the silvers don't stand a chance because the mission doesn't allow for more than 4 players on a team. Then in the very few cases where it becomes a big team battle like 6 vs 6, it becomes immediately obvious the game missions weren't properly balanced to handle that many players because both teams will constantly spawn on top of the objective, commonly resulting in a draw if you need to bring heavy items back to a base. If the missions could be fixed to play out better with larger groups I think things would work a lot better. Still I find the big team games to be more fun since the chaos generally makes the match less one sided than say, a 2v2 match where just one person dying usually means the other person will get ganked in a 2v1 every time. 1 vs 1 is even worse since the defender almost always has the advantage of being able to hide around corners unless the attacker is ranked high enough to have a radar on their vehicle. My point is, rather than focusing on keeping all threat levels segregated from each other in separate districts and missions, the matchmaking should have players of different skill levels on each team. For example: Team A has 4 golds and team B has 3 silvers + 1 gold. Team B should be able to call backup and get 2 more golds. Team A should also be able to call backup and get 1 silver and 1 bronze. End result is Team A has 4 golds, 1 silver and 1 bronze. Team B has 3 silvers 3 golds. It may not be perfect, but at least Team B won't be as likely to get absolutely roflstomped, and maybe the bronze will be able to observe/learn some tactics from watching their more experienced team members work. Another thing which really annoys me are the threat locked districts. When you're a low level and gold threat, nobody playing in a silver or gold instance of where your contacts are located makes leveling impossible. The gold districts are always empty so I HAVE to rely upon people feeling like joining Silver Waterfront to level my newer enforcer character.

Euryale is just straight up OP. Medusa isn't very good at midrange, but can be decent if you're either really close or pretty far away from 65 to 70 meters. Getting used to shooting absolutely spastic weapons like the SHAW without MB or the Tommy gun helps out a bit.

I keep getting randomly disconnected a LOT more often without any warning now too.

I wouldn’t mind the 7th shot to kill if it had a faster TTK than an NTEC like 0.625 to 0.65 or something. At least then it would be a sidegrade which performs better up close. 0.01 seconds doesn’t make a difference and requires a higher skill level just to get similar results.

To be fair I think they have a plan for this since the upcoming IR changes are going add range to weapons based on percentage instead of just a flat value. So the end result on assault rifles should be they have around the same range as before when using IR3, but their fire rate gets reduced to give long range weapons (like DMR and Anubis) a better chance at dealing with them.