Noob_Guardian

Then my intent was clearly off the mark with what was written, as I "meant" to not have HB reverted back for it to not effect NTEC because it needs the hb nerf. We can argue all day about CQC, but as I said, im not going to argue for it to be buffed. I don't want it at the same power level as it was pre-nerf. Can it be buffed to an inbetween stat, and be balanced? Absolutely, but i disagree that the NTEC was "balanced". It was too versatile, and as such, it needed a clearer weakness or less versatility. IF "cqc" is meant to be its weakness, then there certainly shouldn't be a reason to make said weakness more obvious and exploitable, let alone complain if said weakness is more pronounced than before. I was going to write a thing explaining this for the 20th time, but i'll simply counter your argument with this. If NTEC "competition" was that strong against NTEC in cqc and midrange, then we would have seen Obeya, FAR, Scout, and other weapons moreso, than NTEC to counter the NTEC. But no such "competition" are as strong as another NTEC to compete against the ntec, hence why we have not seen obeya, far, scout, and other weapons used primarily, to counter ntec.

It's not even that it's being hosted in Germany, and if that was the issue, then EU would follow stricter guidelines than US servers, simply because of that.

Nah, they've been imbalanced from the start, and just aren't fun. They turn into hide and seek, and even then if the obj is in a bad location, congrats, you're pretty much f****d.

I like to use faster dpi while using shotgun, slower/medium using sniper, smg, rifle and AR. It's just a preference thing. I play with low sensativity and decent DPI, so shotgunning and some other weapons can be a hassle if I don't have it higher. But other times i prefer lower because of weapons. Also note that my mood and time of day effect how i play and feel as well, which matters for me as to what DPI setting I use. (plus i use different settings for different games...)

I think you misread what I said, or misinterpreted what I meant. I said i don't want it reverted/buffed back to it's previous power level, let alone the powerlevel it had before it got HB nerfed. I don't want HB's nerf to be "undone" and I certainly don't want NTEC to far outshine every other option in the game simply because "it's versatile". If they decide to go from "12 -> 30" and take it down to like "18" or so for one change, and make the shot modifier "2.0" i'm not going to complain about it. But if they go and put it back to its exact powerlevel, especially pre-g1 initial nerf barring the HB change. Then yes, i'm going to have an issue with it. I strongly disagree that the NTEC didn't warrant some rework/nerf. However, as i've said before, they may have taken this "latest" iteration a little too harshly.

I actually did and all it showed was reddit posts saying it wasn't. sooo I use like 800/1000/1200 dpi depending on which weapons I use or game. Switching between that shouldn't be "cheating" . Along with a sensativity clutch which i always forget i have which is set at 500 dpi. Changing "how fast" your mouse moves on screen "shouldn't be" cheating. Just saying, and nothing I read said it is. Also, nothing in APB to my knowledge says it is either, which is why I was asking LO.

alrighty, making sure

ODIN series does need a buff, it's really underwhelming.

I disagree with re-implementing it. It messed up the player prediction of the game and made it so that if you were aiming right on someone and fire, it would miss, because the games prediction which shows player location would not work right. The current changes aside from oscar being someone iceskaty still, work because it emphasises on the need to either AIM and FIRE, or MOVE. Not both. Sprint shooting was dumb af back then, and we really don't need to have it come back. Your strafe speed for weapons are still pretty fast anyways, if you want to move faster use fragile. Having a broken jitter animation while sprinting and "v" spamming while firing was not "healthy". There are VERY good reasons why sprint shooting and jump shooting were nerfed.

True, I can agree with that. I've never encountered anyone abusing it, so it was a surprise to hear it was removed because "people being hunted down" with it. Might've been an EU issue? I don't know. (Sorry for late reply i dont remember seeing anything in my notifications about this topic having replies)

yeah i did at the time, and i think he mentioned he didn't. I know they fixed it so you can only get them if someone left leaving 1 left. I just wasn't sure if there was a "new" bug from some update which changed that. Seeing as the coding is a mess anyways it wouldn't of surprised me.

I thought G1 had fixed this so the only way to get them was to have a teammate leave a mission. However, I don't remember having a teamate and there's no "x" name on either side (and I had spoken with another who said they ended up in a 1v1 as well and didn't know how against a silver). Is the /abandonmission thing the only thing that's triggering these still? Or is there now a bug which makes them occur still. I'm normally familiar with a teamate's name being x'd out if they left a mission. But as shown below, there's no other people in tab.

How is changing your DPI cheating? I take it a "sensativity" clutch is also cheating then? lol you can legit change your DPI in computer settings, and sensativities ingame. What games will ban you for having a dpi switch? lol

While I'm glad to see this, should I worry about my Razer Synapse mouse app running in background so I can change my mouse sensativities easily? I have no macro configured on my profile. I know AHK will likely be an issue, so i'll have to be careful about playing Path of Exile for the trade macro, then APB.

I'd suggest waiting until enemies are almost halfway on the road or 2-3 seconds from cover before firing as well. It ensures they have almost no cover (aside from possible cars) with plenty of time to take them out. Cover is it's biggest enemy, so try out places that people generally don't think of sniping from which gives a good shot when positioning on offense. On defense anywhere in sight of the obj is fine.

Again, LO nerfed it because it did what the other rifles did did, and was still the "better" rifle. You've clearly never played Overwatch competitively. FAR was still worse than ntec, albeit slightly. The "ONLY" benefit it had over ntec was the higher base accuracy and accuracy modifier, where despite having to fire slower than ntec, you were still really accurate. If you look at the STAR/FAR in APBDB. You'd see that both the other rifles have nearly identical stats aside from ammo, marksman accuracy, modifier cap, and mag size. Yes, the "ntec" is more accessible, however most "vets" have also bought a number of ARMAS weapons as well. If they felt the FAR was worth it, they likely would have bought one too. Actually yes, and if you don't like it, get a flare launcher for 3500 joker tickets and resup, and just spam it. I've never had issues while playing against players using spotter, in fact I don't think I've actually noticed being spotted before, maybe I play in a way that I don't really get spotted then? Beats me. HVR is fine, it's range is variable now due to accuracy so it really doesn't perform in cqc. ATAC is fine, its not overpowered, and its not broken, so why would I complain about it? Remote det may be "dumb" but it's generally a non issue unless you do things like "play on the road". If you see someone charging with a car with det, get away from it lol. It's not rocket science. People have been complaining about NFAS for ages, dunno where you have been. Get NFAS percs and Kev3 and watch the salt. The screenshots barely proved anything as it simply shows the current difference between the NTEC and AR's. Showing that LO did exactly what they intended to. As such you've got to make a better case as to why it should be reverted or at the least have those modifiers which I posted so he has them, adjusted and buffed. Going "EVERYTHING IS 100% OKAY NOW!" *drops pictures* Doesn't "prove" any problem, it can be used as an example of a problem you "believe" exists, but you've gotta do more than that when suggesting a viable change. I gave him/her the stats so that he could actually make a "factual" case as to why he/she feels it should be reverted or at least buffed to numbers that are still worse than original, but not nearly as strong. (Though I know he/she wants full reversion) As I've said many times already, I'm not for reverting NTEC to pre-nerf LO stats, and i do feel they did go about it the wrong way for the bloom at the least and I had mentioned my concerns in the LO NTEC change thread back when. But I'm not going to go and make a buff thread asking for a full reversion of it, let alone a full reversion of every change back to G1's bloom rework, while leaving HB nerf intact.

I honestly use mobility sling on it, cj3n and bando. I don't really have an issue landing all the shots unless the enemy has cover. The extra shots is an issue with the ISSR-B but that is also considered one of the "best" snipers. It is pretty good at "jump shooting" but it's jump shooting is pretty balanced because the stk.

I think he means the STIC, the Manic is really good, but the RABID feels like it could use some lovin.

Because he went on a rant about how jumpshooting should be brought back because "fun arcade feeling". That's the relevance, and hes complaining because NTEC jumpshooting got nerfed, but STAR and FAR "still can". Yes LOL, Overwatch is dumpstered from their high end/pro changes. So it's clear that even then there's problems with going with "pro scene" changes. You mean jump shooting and pixel hitting someone whos crouched behind cover 40m+ away is balanced? It's not, lets not pretend that doing so is. It's why Scout can only jumpshoot roughly 20-30m away now semi accurately, because otherwise it would be broke. This has nothing to do with "tracking in arched direction". Regardless, if you were hit once, and they jumped from the corner, you're generally going to have a harder time tracking than him because he knows where you are and you don't see him until hes already in air ready to fire the second shot (and likely going to hit that shot). So again, jump shooting wasn't balanced, no "hitting someone in an arc" isn't necessarily difficult, it's the obvious situations that doing so was done in which made it difficult to counter. I've considered the FAR a ntec/star hybrid, at least until the STAR got buffed to have the same recovery. Yes "far has the same ttk", that doesn't make it the exact same as the NTEC. Which is what FLAWS was saying. "FAR is litterally an NTEC reskin" FAR and STAR were considered worse than NTEC, I felt the FAR was more of a bridge between NTEC and STAR, while the STAR was well, pretty much dumpster trash until it got buffed to be almost identical to the FAR. You said "well just buff star" others were always like "just buff star to compete with ntec". Well you want it to compete, you gotta make it compete then right? They made it better in Range to "better" compete with NTEC (which was literally listed as a reason for the buff in the first place). As for why I'm saying "it's more cqc" that's simply because maybe not you, others like to say "no STAR is fine, its more CQC, it shouldn't reach range so well as an excuse to let NTEC have no "real" competitors. You can say "well obeya and obir" but then that's ignoring the fact that we went through a period of almost a year with soley shotguns, snipers, and NTECs and if it wasn't waterfront, you'd have been lucky to think of an obir let alone see an obeya. Because well.... NTEC. Maybe because I'd rather not have the ntec fully reverted to it's prenerf idiocy? Yes, NTEC outclassed every AR, it didn't matter if the STAR and FAR were considered to be more for CQC than mid, because the NTEC was still the better choice anyways. You clearly havn't seen pros complain on their twitch streams then have you? They do it all the time. You're right, they'll rarely ever go on forums and complain, but they'll be damned if they don't mention it and make their fanbase upset about the issue and have consequently have "gaming news sites" cover the topic. You say "pro players don't complain about things in game" and now you know why G1 and LO don't listen to "pros" because if they did, no problem in APB would be fixed, because no issues would be brought up. Oh wait, "pros" in APB complain about ATAC, remote det, spotter, nfas, and hvr. My bad, maybe you're right, they should stop complaining and pouting about such things, they're fine as is, or maybe they're not pros at all. "You don't understand how people feel who enjoy and invest time into this game feel". You mean my 4.7k hours don't indicate that I actually enjoy and have invested time in this game? No, clearly i know nothing. I'm just a filthy casual who wants to play for fun because he realizes at the end of the day the "you win" on the screen means nothing. I play just fine against some of the hardest players in the server, so what. So what if I don't care to give my 100% at all times for a video game which is meant to be played for FUN. If you want to go and put 110% in 24/7 go ahead. But don't complain about me having a voice simply because I don't care to put 110% into APB at all times "to win". Merged. HP DAMAGE: NTEC 185 - FAR 175 STAR 175 PER SHOT MODIFIER: NTEC .065 - FAR .60 - STAR .60 RECOVERY DELAY: NTEC 0.070 - FAR 0.085 - STAR 0.085 RECOVERY PER SECOND: NTEC 5.00 FAR 4.00 STAR 4.00 If you're going to make a case claiming the FAR and the NTEC are superbly similar, you may as well include the STAR as well, as it's almost identical to the FAR in a number of important stats. You actually do have access to those stats unless you're talking about G1's initial NTEC rework which was pre-sept 2016 where they messed with the full auto bloom mechanic, which from the looks of it and other weapons, are an unlisted stat, as unique "weapon functions" aren't listed in APBDB, so we'll never really know the stats behind the change, only that the mechanic exists. LO's most recent changes: NTEC - Jump modifier old "12" new "30" (applied to all NTEC and ursus) NTEC 5/URSUS - shot modifier cap old 1.6 new 2.4 Of those, Jump Modifier: FAR "10" STAR "10" Shot modifier cap: FAR "1.45" STAR "1.35" Both STAR and FAR accuracy is at 10m is 18cm, NTEC is 24cm Marksman modifiers of STAR is .50 FAR is .45 and NTEC .35 As I said, STAR is much closer to the FAR in performance than the NTEC. While you may then claim that far is so similar to NTEC they perform the same, we also know that that's not exactly true, they handle differently. The difference is that FAR is still rather effective because of its base accuracy and marksman modifiers. Looking at this information you should have enough "information" to make your claim saying that the NTEC was indeed nerfed "too hard" and could accurately suggest a reversion, or at least a buff, to some of the changed stats from LO, so that the change is not so harsh. In the "suggestions" section of forums. IF you do not wish to respond, that's fine. Good luck.

oblivion is a lovely weapon... one of the fastest sniper ttks, great accuracy with no need for hunting sight as long as you "strafe". It's not an AV sniper so it doesn't need more car damage, and has one of the fastest sniper equip times in game as well, slower than scout, but faster than dogear, hvr, and dmr. (Scout has one of the fastest sniper equip times ingame, with 3ps3 it goes to under .4s) I think the reason you feel its mediocre is because it's 4 hits to kill, i know dogear has somewhat similar issues at times, though it at least has high hard damage to compensate. As for weapons that enjoy that are just meh are the NORSEMEN. Accuracy buff slightly and then ttk reduction to .75 from .8, i feel would suffice. They are meant to be cqc weapons but just fall flat despite ease of use because of high ttk and accuracy/

I had people jumpshooting from corners at 25-40m to crouch fire lol, it wasn't just a cqc thing for people to jump from corners. I don't consider jumpshooting to be a "purely cqc" type thing, as multiple weapons that can jump shoot, can do so further than 10m (S1NA, SCOUT). As I said before (ages ago), im fine with the jump shooting nerf, however I feel they may have done to much with max bloom, however I won't "complain" about it either. Most other games don't pick players in the community nor competitive scene to decide balance. I don't know which games you're getting at saying "only specific skilled people i feel should have a say should have a say", but that's not reality for the majority of games out there, nor should it be. Had it been, we'd never had removed jump shooting (and yes, shooting 80m with a sniper and hitbox scanning someone is broken and unbalanced, and would have required more than G1's hitbox bandaid fix to actually fix by raising EVERY form of cover), sprint shooting (which messed with the games player determining system to make it so you didn't hit when you fired on the player), because we had many more "high skill" people advocating for such broken things to "stay" rather than be fixed. Yes, these things were fixed for very good reason. Regardless of how much of a "less fun sandboxy" game you claim that such things made APB, those "features" were broken. My issue with jumpshooting was SCOUT jump shooting, though S1NA jumpshooting is a bit borked off the wall as well. FAR doesn't play the "Same" as NTEC. STAR and FAR play much more similar to eachother than to the NTEC. "About as good" but not AS good, key difference there. STAR and FAR are almost identical in playstyle and handling. I don't get where you think FAR is an ntec, but literally look at the STATS on APBDB and you'd see you're wrong. Unless you're going to claim the STAR functions the same as an NTEC, which it doesn't, there's no reason to say the FAR is the same as the NTEC. At which point your claim would easily be refuted because STAR is clearly not the same as the NTEC. But i guess you can hold your opinions regardless of statistical fact. Your earlier pictures showed the NTEC had worse jump shooting accuracy than the other two, which seems to have been the point of the change as well as worse max bloom (which we also know the NTEC had a little bit worse than either). Simply posting a pic saying "everything is fixed look at these reticules" when it's clear that the point of the changes was in fact to make NTEC jump shooting and SPRAY "worse" doesn't indicate anything is "wrong". You can say "these weapons still jumpshoot better than ntec, why" but you also understand that both are more CQC aligned than midrange (though FAR is more accurate at midrange than STAR slightly) and the point of the change seems to have been to do exactly that. Ensure STAR/FAR are better in cqc, while NTEC is better at range but not CQC. Now, saying "well ntec was fine before" doesn't refute anything, LO and G1 had all the stats they felt they needed to change the gun. You're arguing with me showing basic bloom pictures and acting like it proves your point, when all it does is show that LO did exactly what they wanted to do. So please, provide a compelling suggestion in "game suggestions" as to why the NTEC is "bad" now, and should be reverted.

I can set a macro up on my mouse, as long as you don't "use" that button, or turn it off/have a APB mouse setup with no macros on it shouldn't be an issue.

I mean, you're talking about the "original" ntec with HB2 usage. So it's pretty possible they did. The SCOUT lasted 3 - 4 years? QSING HVR 5-6? I understand that not everything will play like it, however, i also understand that buffing every weapon to that strength will cause issues. We can agree to disagree on that, however every weapon that had been close to NTEC's "original" strength has been nerfed. I'm not keen on making every weapon that "powerful", as I still hold by the fact that I feel APB's gameplay and locations were meant for higher ttk combat, not lower. I've been gold since after I got it when they upped gold to the top 20%. The last time I "tried" to dethreat was during gold lock, and after losing roughly 15 matches in a row i decided it wasn't worth the effort and stopped because I was still gold (ironically i sucked so bad I couldn't dethreat). Plus my PC was a I3 laptop running sub 20FPS, and essentially just stopped running APB after all the patches kept making performance worse. Why should all AR's "focus" around the NTEC? AR's are varied drastically with their intended niches, from ATAC, COBRA, and condor, to STAR, FAR, and NTEC. AR's vary as drastically as every other weapon role. What would be important if you were to focus on NTEC is to identify the key competitors of the NTEC within the NTEC's midrange niche from all roles, and balance accordingly. Not just "AR's". STAR couldn't compete easily against most other weapons in the cqc to midrange niche, not just the NTEC. Though NTEC was the only other "AR", as such it was easier to try to reference NTEC as a basis to buff it, because it was so much bette, than the STAR was in almost every way.

That patch looks amazing for newer players and those who havn't got these weapons bought. ALL macro usage is not permitted via TOS. Just a FYI.

You said "what didn't it get nerfed for" Mag size was a reply to that. It was also one of the ideas floated to nerf all AR's to 24 bullets in a mag. I know the differences in gameplay with obeya and obir thank you. G1 would intentionally not fix broken, glitched, and overpowered weapons for several weeks, months, years, to milk money off players, it was a strategy by them. I know that you know they did so. If you were to buff "every" weapon to NTEC standard, you'd have had to rework every AR, rifle, and pointman weapon to some degree. Not that they havn't already buffed half the weapons in game to begin with. Ironically, it still wasn't "enough" because nothing still could easily compete with the NTEC. FAR was a hybrid star/ntec. It leans much closer to the STAR than the NTEC, unless you're claiming the STAR shares a lot of traits of the ntec. FAR has the same base accuracy as the STAR, .05 less marksman modifier, higher shot modifier cap, same crouch and walk modifiers, same run and jump modifiers, same recovery delay. Almost all the Accuracy modifiers are the same for the STAR and the FAR. Both the STAR and the FAR are "almost" identical. Aside from TTK and mag size (and im unsure about damage ramp) A few matches against me proves nothing when it comes to "skill" with a weapon when consistently getting 2-4v1'd all match. Not only that, but i've had plenty of matches with ntec with 20+ kills against premade gold groups while solo queing, as i have with most other weapons in game. Getting kills with NTEC was considerably easier imo than using other weapons to do so. And you just admitted your bias, "it was our favorite gun and it felt good". Yes, people never want their favorite weapons nerfed, it's understandable. Especially when they believe the ENTIRE game should be BUILT around that specific weapon. A perception issue. A game shouldn't be "directly balanced around 1 gun". APB is balanced for example, within ranged niches from cqc-long. Most weapons are only optimal in a one them of them, but capable of doing well in other ones. That still could not be said of the NTEC which was good in every niche that it was usable in. You say "balance based on the highest skilled players". Well if all the highest skilled players only go to a certain weapon for the reason that it nets the easiest kills and has the most use across all niches, then that's reason enough to look at the weapon and see if there's enough reason or cause to re-balance it. If there's a weapon that is far too powerful within one niche, it deserves a nerf, like the C2. So why would you not nerf a weapon that is a little too powerful, across multiple niches? This is regardless of the fact that there are only 2 F2p AR's. You don't ignore game balance because there's only "2" f2p AR's, and one is drastically better than the other even after the weaker one got buffed (and the stronger one reworked and nerfed slightly), with only 3 weapons that can compete with the NTEC, and none really used over the NTEC for obvious reasons. Dunno, I almost never saw any comments about CQC capabilities needing nerfed on NTEC, until LO floated the idea. I think I saw 1 forum post about it and was surprised to see LO take the CQC approach. Yes, it's a ranged weapon, and supposed to be good at range, especially with "high skill players". Which is why they nerfed the CQC capabilities to ensure that it stays good at range while not being so good in CQC. Far sounds and looks fine to me, i've done plenty well with it when I had been leveling my rifleman role and switching between the STAR/NTEC/FAR a lot. If you think that the game is going to be an eternal cycle of gun nerfing you're wrong. LO already stated that isn't their intent, and it clearly wasn't G1's either. Its strawmanning and fearmongering. Did you know that most guns in the game got buffed? Not nerfed? They did nerf a number of the "stronger iconic" ones in the past. From CSG, RFP, FBW, NTEC, OBEYA, HVR. But they then buffed the "underpowered/underused" ones, STAR, SNUB, PDW, NFA, OCA, PMG, DMR, MISERY, CURSE, ALIG, ETC. The point of the previous balance changes, has clearly been to lessen the power level difference between certain weapons within the same niches so that there are more "options" to choose from. You think that APB, which is built on customization and player "choice" from modding a weapon to what suits your playstyle, to the 20+ weapons, should only have 3-5 weapons used by the majority of the playerbase? The point of the changes has been clearly to ensure that a wider variety of weapons are viable choices in more situations, and that player experience doesn't suck because of things like sprintshooting,qsing, jumpshooting, broken camp locations, and item running all of which they either removed or nerfed to some degree.