Revoluzzer

The PMG was, for the longest time, superior to the OCA. But the PMG was too powerful then, not the OCA too weak. Generally speaking, a lack of accuracy should only be RNG when you're outside your ideal range.

Is the problem really solved if there is a limit which can be reached? Turning consumables into normal, yellow mods would get rid of the issue properly.

The latter is never going to happen, even if the HVR got a deserved adjustment to 750 damage. Kevlar would be way too much of a gamechanger if it increased health by over 50% or decreased damage by more than 33%. Very good points being made here. Coincidentally G1's quest of slowly bringing other weapons to N-Tec levels of deadliness has lowered the average TTK enough to arguably make CA3 as powerful as it is, because it has the biggest impact within a short time. Fights rarely "pause" in modern APB, so once you win there is ample time to regenerate. Kevlar doesn't keep you alive much longer because you already get killed within the blink of an eye, but its downside certainly does prevent you from drawing out a fight at all. Fragile will get you killed even faster, so you can hardly make use of its upside. Also, as far as I'm concerned, consumables were a terrible attempt of band-aid-fixing core gameplay-issues.

This actually already works. You can jump off great heights and "grab" the ladder at the bottom before hitting the ground, thereby preventing fall damage.

Missions play worse as more players join in. Ideally it's 2v2 or 3v3. With eight or more players in a mission it becomes too easy to cover an objective while parts of your team are dead/respawning.

I wouldn't call it a new system. It's really only what I think Realtime Worlds used as their baseline. Generally speaking LMGs are a special case, because they are typically support-weapons in video games. This was achieved really well with the original two, imo. The SHAW for suppressive fire works really well (even though few people use suppressive fire in APB) and you can't just bum-rush it because "pffft, it's only a support weapon" will get you mowed down real quick. The high recoil prevents it from killing fast anywhere outside CQC, thankfully. The ALIGs low base accuracy makes it great for targeting vehicles (as intended), but unreliable when targeting people at range (as intended). My experience with most newer LMGs is lacking, to say the least. The N-SSW / VAS-SW and S1-TIC seem like a poor excuse for adding an assault rifles to LMGs, just so people can progress this role. Don't get me wrong, I like using both of them, but they don't feel like proper LMGs. The AMG-556 is essentially a more mobile SHAW, right? Why? RTW wouldn't have given the SHAW high mobility and a low TTK. Is the SWARM another one? I don't have one and only trialed it once. If my memory serves correctly, it does basically what the SHAW does, but with a "predictable" recoil pattern. Some very smart person will now say "duh, it's Light Machine Guns, they don't have to be heavy", but LMGs in APB were introduced as heavy weapons and I think it makes sense to keep this restriction as a baseline for this class. (Also if my understanding of guns is correct, Heavy Machine Guns are those which can not be carried/operated by a single individual.)

I'd like to see both N-Tec variants rolled into one, but with its original accuracy-behaviour given back. The ammo-nerf seems uncalled for. The STAR has the same number of potential kills per mag. Giving both the same damage per bullet is more logical, imo. Really, as far as I'm concerned, the STAR and N-Tec should only differ in their accuracy-behaviour. STAR allowing low recoil, sustained fire with gradual accuracy degradation from very high initial accuracy; N-Tec allowing relatively precise individual shots, but high recoil, rapid degradation under sustained fire (none of that curves-behaviour, mind you). The OCA should just be reverted to its original state. It was a great baseline for other SMGs to derive from.

Yeah i do, however they also made shotguns and smg's TTK's slightly faster than .70 as well. Unless you mean that NTEC, FAR, Frenzy, etc should have a .75ttk same as star That's just one of many failures on Gamersfirst's part. Realtime Worlds seemed to have a pretty clear vision how to constrain weapons to their niche. By TTK for CQC and effective range on the other end. With a minimum TTK of 0.7 for all original weapons (iirc) they also ensured fights weren't over too quickly. (The only outlier originally was quickswitching from HVR to sidearm, which they fixed eventually.) Introducing weapons with a lower TTK and watering down the effecive range limitation (i.e. all weapons can deal damage at 100m, no matter how miniscule) caused a plethora of gameplay issues. Heck, the districts were built around the idea that many weapons simply can not deal damage beyond a certain range, thus allowing players to move across large open spaces without having to fear assault rifles, for example. As a baseline, all assault rifles should have a 0.75s TTK, with 0.70s being strictly a CQC weapon attribute. Rifles sit between 0.80 and 0.90s, snipers beyond 1.00s. Although it would probably make more sense to look at effective range instead of weapon class when considering TTK. Because the ATAC is an assault rifle intended for CQC and the SR15 is a rifle intended for medium range. 00-30m --> 0.70s 30-50m --> 0.75s 50-80m --> 0.80-0.90s 80-100m --> 1.00s+

I've always wanted to see Heavy Barrel reworked to something like reducing horizontal and vertical recoil, but increasing weapon weight class (makes you move slower while drawn). This sounds like a new mod (another muzzle brake), really. Heavy Barrel is a good concept, although it could possibly benefit from a minor buff to its upsides.

Midtown was built for their first trailer, I believe. They eventually transformed it into Financial, according to RTW. The minigun was used in this concept video.

What you describe is the 'Manic', really. Somatic brings you the SMG / AR Hybrid NA-MANIC, one of three models in the FANATIC BROTHERS collection. This well rounded weapon combines incredible accuracy in short bursts with increased stability during sustained fire. The NA provides great short to medium range capabilities. The 'Frenzy' is, according to its description at least, designed as a proper Assault Rifle. Somatic brings you the Assault Rifle FA-FRENZY, one of three models in the FANATIC BROTHERS collection. This well rounded weapon combines incredible accuracy in short bursts with increased stability during sustained fire. The FA is the mad-man of choice when operating in mid-range combat. Given the Manic already functions as an ACER counterpart, the Frenzy should probably play somewhat similar to the STAR. Perhaps with a lower base, but higher sustained accuracy. And obviously one more shot to kill, but a higher rate of fire.

It's definitely not as bad as it was in the past. But even then people said the same thing. Which doesn't make any sense to me, because bringing all weapons to that level of power and versatility would render a lot of weapons obsolete. They'd all function essentially the same. The N-Tec has historically rolled the benefits of SMGs (low TTK), Assault Rifles (versatility) and Rifles (precision) into one, without having any of the true downsides (low range, master of none, low mobility). People said "oh it's a jack of all trades, but master of none" but I don't see how it isn't at the very least the master of all Assault Rifles (otherwise it wouldn't be the most used by far), while also encroaching on SMGs and Rifles in their own territories. As far as I'm concerned adjusting the TTK would have mostly fixed this. But instead we get this asinine accuracy-curve-nonsense.

The missions aren't inherently set up this way. As Hexerin correctly explained, all mission-objectives in APB are randomly distributed to a certain extend. This means each mission always plays out in the same order and fashion (and based on a mission's name you can anticipate each stage's objective(s)), but the objectives are always placed randomly across the map. Bottom line this shouldn't matter much. APB was never designed to provide proper competitive gameplay and you were never supposed to win every mission. That's why, originally, reaching Threat Level 15 was such a big deal and would have your position permanently visible on the map, as well as announcing you joining the district. It meant you had won 25 or 50 missions in a row (I don't remember the exact number); only the really well coordinated teams would achieve this! One defeat would demote you to a lower threat level. And given that your opposition could see you on their map throughout the mission, keeping that TL15 for long was near impossible. There is a different side to this story, however. Certain objectives are either unique to one faction or distributed unevenly between them. Low rank contacts will provide Criminals with "Destroy"-objectives (shoot cameras or storefronts), which are incredibly easy to complete. Later they have to burn targets, which can be doors, windows, vehicles or piles of boxes. Enforcers do not have either of these activities, buy share the objectives of "Burn" (usually when they defuse bombs or place bugs). Enforcers will spend a significant amount of their missions with bugging and hacking objectives (phones, sat dishes and antennas in particular). While criminals do have some missions with the same objective, they aren't nearly as common. The problem: These objectives are 9 out of 10 times wide open and can be covered easily by the defending team, making missions as an Enforcer often more difficult than as a Criminal. In short, the distribution of objectives across the map isn't inherently unfair or biased, but the distribution of objectives across factions is. However APB isn't designed for competitive play, so missions aren't balanced for it.

So's the N-Tec/N-HVR meta for the past six-or-so years. But as long as both weapons remain largely untouched the discussion will continue. At least they try with the HVR, even if the core issue is apparently never considered for change.

Why would you introduce mods specifically for weapon groups? This would require more work and/or give players less options. The current setup for mods allows players to customise their weapon in several ways, while prohibiting illogical and/or overpowered combinations. Also how would you ever come to the conclusion that the N-Tec can be considered a rifle? If it was, it were in the 'Rifle' category, not 'Assault Rifle'. When looking at the original design of it, it was even intended to be a short ranged assault rifle (higher ROF, lower accuracy). Ultimately the execution of this design failed spectacularly, which is how we ended up with the jack-of-all-trades, master of most N-Tec.

Have you found a way to complete objectives from over 20m away? I guess if you play Crim and have to shoot CCTV or storefronts that works, but otherwise I don't see how you can avoid getting into shotgun territory. Your opponent can just wait around a corner when you keep your distance.

I'm all for raising the average TTK by a noticable amount.

Why would a rifle need Rifling to compete with the N-Tec? At which range? With the current changes a N-Tec equipped with Rifling has almost the same minimum TTK as the Obeya CR, but still less effective range and a much harsher damage drop-off. You could probably slap Heavy Barrel on the Obeya and completely wipe the floor with the N-Tec at most ranges. The way I understand it, the first pellet to hit the target deals most damage. This is not the first fired pellet. If only one pellet out of all fired ones hits, it will do maximum damage. That's why it feels like certain shotguns can now again two-shot almost every time, even while only aimed roughly in the direction of an opponent.

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FWIW @LO_Beastie seems really ambitious, perhaps he'll go ahead and make changes to affected weapons when brought to his attention.

I'm actually not going to totally disagree with this, this has made me see that range in APB is kinda' totally fucked. Good to see you're not set on your initial opinion. I was gonna call bullshoot on your "IR3 was essential to many guns", because it isn't. It was just an essential straight upgrade to most of them - which needed to be fixed. I do agree that launching the changes prematurely is a bit cocky, but it might finally give APB some freshness that it has been lacking for years.

They feature(d) unique mechanics, which are creeping into normal weapons as well, unfortunately. Originally a weapon with damage-ramp-up (i.e. Volcano, DMR) wouldn't have existed on default guns. (I wish they'd go back to that.)

Many weapons strictly benefit from certain mods (e.g. most SMGs can ignore CJ3's downside). The stat-penalty should reduce abuse of a mod on weapons which are only supposed to utilise it for side-grading instead of strict up-grading. Long-range weapons don't exactly need faster equip-times, but it's nice to have. Many do benefit from faster marksman-movement, however, because they're terrible at hip-firing. As such this proposed downside would hurt them where it counts in return for an improvement a player might value higher. i guess you could argue they’re “utility” mods? Orange - Sights Red - Barrel Blue - Munition Purple - Handling (originally), Utility (now) Arguably Tagger shouldn't be purple, but in its own category (e.g. yellow or green) which provides additional functions. Then again, it doesn't really matter at the end of the day how true to their original purpose each category stays.

Ironically not boosting people's ranks might skew the results just as much. Can you modify the mission-rewards on test servers (multiply them by 10 or 25) so people progress faster? This would give at least an approximate simulation of real server strain, as players naturally still progress when playing. I guess flat-out boosting players to max rank works, too, but I'd still consider adding some "natural" progression to the mix.

Starting at max bloom makes more sense, because it's a more logical behaviour, as far as I'm concerned. Having an increased minimal bloom for a certain duration is closer to damage being tied to accuracy and therefore less comprehensible mechanics for beginners. Currently weapons get equipped with full accuracy. 3PS could simply reverse this. Alternatively I could see it becoming the opposite of Mobility Sling. Faster equip time, lower movement while aiming down sights. (Coincidentally I'm fairly certain this discussion also happened when Mobility Sling was introduced.)