Time to change your Loot Box model LO.

[LilWonka 96]

 

[Alani 475]

considering the bill targets minors purchasing 'loot boxes'

 

 

its not really an issue when apb is considered 18+ to play

[LilWonka 96]

3 minutes ago, Alani said:

considering the bill targets minors purchasing 'loot boxes'

 

 

its not really an issue when apb is considered 18+ to play

Thats just it, the fear is if the bill goes live, then platforms like steam might kik off the 18+ games. Same goes for console.

Edited May 28, 2019 by Willy Wonka

[Alani 475]

1 minute ago, Willy Wonka said:

Thats just it, the fear is if the bill goes live, then platforms like steam might kik off the 18+ games.

not really.

 

steam also sells adult games. there was a recent issue where steam said 'no more adult games' and people got pissed and steam said 'nevermind ok pls dont hurt us'

[Ydiss 15]

I don't know a lot about the bill itself but if it is restricted only to minors (i.e. it's not a blanket ban of loot boxes for any game) and LO want to keep loot boxes, then they'll probably need to prove their gateway restricts minors from playing (like any gambling organisation does, for example). Which I doubt LO will be able to do (or be willing to do, to be frank).

Edited May 28, 2019 by Ydiss

[LilWonka 96]

2 minutes ago, Ydiss said:

I don't know a lot about the bill itself but if it is restricted only to minors and LO want to keep loot boxes, then they'll probably need to prove their gateway restricts minors from playing (like any gambling organisation does, for example). Which I doubt LO will be able to do.

yes exactly, Its not as simple as just slapping a rating on your game and saying well its 17+ so can sell loot boxes, there's going to be a lot more that goes with it.

Edited May 28, 2019 by Willy Wonka

[Ydiss 15]

Just now, Willy Wonka said:

yes exactly, Its not as simple as just slapping a rating on your game and saying well its 17+ so can sell lootboxes, theres going to be a lot more that goes with it.

Isn't it solely targeting the randomised loot boxes because they're essentially gambling?

 

I imagine the best solution for LO would be to just change the Joker store so there's no random element, but different prices. I've got to be honest, I don't think this is a bad thing. I really dislike the whole mobile games random loot box thing. It's a blight on games in general. Obviously extremely popular. But I personally think it's gash and won't miss it if it's obliterated.

[LilWonka 96]

14 hours ago, Willy Wonka said:

yes exactly, Its not as simple as just slapping a rating on your game and saying well its 17+ so can sell loot boxes, there's going to be a lot more that goes with it.

Not to mention that if the bill goes live it will label loot boxes as gambling, and that itself has a whole new set of regulation and fees.

13 hours ago, Ydiss said:

Isn't it solely targeting the randomised loot boxes because they're essentially gambling?

 

I imagine the best solution for LO would be to just change the Joker store so there's no random element, but different prices. I've got to be honest, I don't think this is a bad thing. I really dislike the whole mobile games random loot box thing. It's a blight on games in general. Obviously extremely popular. But I personally think it's gash and won't miss it if it's obliterated.

Loot boxes and  "Pay to Win Elements" I dont think its all bad either, I would of rathered paid 100 dollars for my volcanno rather then the 3-400 trying to get it.

Edited May 28, 2019 by Willy Wonka

[Ydiss 15]

Haha "pay to win" elements.

 

It'll be fun if only to see US Congress try to empirically define what that actually means. The gaming communities the world over have been trying and failing to agree on what it means for well over a decade

[LilWonka 96]

6 minutes ago, Ydiss said:

Haha "pay to win" elements.

 

It'll be fun if only to see US Congress try to empirically define what that actually means. The gaming communities the world over have been trying and failing to agree on what it means for well over a decade

 I magine it's going to turn into a giant legal battle that will make companys settle somewhere in the middle.

[VickyFox 353]

18 minutes ago, Willy Wonka said:

Thats just it, the fear is if the bill goes live, then platforms like steam might kik off the 18+ games. Same goes for console.

Seems like a rather unrealistic fear considering it is just a new piece of legislation to which APB is already in compliance with.

Valve removing games from steam may do it out of legal self protecting if any games do not comply, but I don't think any company wants to lose what is probably the easiest source of income as well as clients.

 

Premium is more likely to be hit!

 

Pay to win:

Rank standing, in game currency rewards are already standard but would be boosted by a percentage with premium.

Certain cooldowns would be diminished giving an advantage in missions.

Paywall:

More layers would be unlocked in creative stations for more complex player made customisation, AND any layers made above non premium limit before premium membership runs out would be relocked after premium expires. If someone wants to alter 1 little thing on a over the limit, then they would have to refine the detail till within limits or repurchase premium.

 

It should be noted that Little Orbit has address the Pay to Win factor in Premium and is going to make cooldowns standardised so actual gameplay should be fair, it is only be additional rewards and more creative freedom that old premium would give.

 

 

Now of course it is stated that lootboxes by their definition would override all but 1 exception, If the game is targeted, marketed or intended for minors.

Of course this would need a entity to evaluate and verify APB:Reloaded if it is a game that is in anyway trying to be for minor.

[Fortune Runner 796]

1 hour ago, Willy Wonka said:

platforms like steam might kik off the 18+ games

source?

[Mitne 724]

1 hour ago, Ydiss said:

Haha "pay to win" elements.

 

It'll be fun if only to see US Congress try to empirically define what that actually means. The gaming communities the world over have been trying and failing to agree on what it means for well over a decade

I guess they just slap that lootbox is anything which involves gambling and game of chance and viola (Politicans of this world ain't such enigma to crack honestly).

Joker Boxes would fall into that category.

That said this bill is more aimed at AAA companies which recently put lootbox system everywhere, even in single-player - without which you often left with incomplete game (eherm... eherm... EA).

I dunno what to think of it. At one side i'm so at this backstab at EA and their anti-consumer approach (seriously they might lose millions but they make it up with each FIFA and idiots buying this player cards to unlock their favorite Ronaldo or something to use in their "Dream Team"), at second - I know this giants will come with other way to milk money and we can't just restrict everything.

Edited May 28, 2019 by Mitne

[LilyV3 323]

2 hours ago, Ydiss said:

I don't know a lot about the bill itself but if it is restricted only to minors (i.e. it's not a blanket ban of loot boxes for any game) and LO want to keep loot boxes, then they'll probably need to prove their gateway restricts minors from playing (like any gambling organisation does, for example). Which I doubt LO will be able to do (or be willing to do, to be frank).

 

Wasn't APB anyways for adults by the TOS it had?

In the end what will happen? The same as with those "Oh yes here I am born in 1930 so I am adult now let me continue" context requests

And generally i do not understand this "it's gambling" thing. because if that's true, any sticker collection or trading card packs would fall under this as well. You cannot really blame the digital gaming industry having adopted that system. The issue is not the companies wanting money, that's their entire purpose at all, the issue are the idiots on customer side which utilize that system. if no customer ever had bought a lootbox, they wouldn't exist as a valid method of monetarization.

 

in the end G1 could just make a fake lootbox, buy a JMB get 1 day premium and a free random prize  

Also, would this "lootbox" system also count for games with wheels of fortunes and other gambling related mechanics, like, here buy an item upgrade, where the item could even shatter?= because here you truly "lose" something without gaining anything at all. if those bill would be made by competent gaming relation having people they would have to cover a lot of the "hidden lootboxes" which just come with different names and shapes because the gaming industry was pretty creative making them in all sorts of shapes and systems.

[TzickyT 212]

u kinda keep the lootbox system but for example buy certain ammount and ur guranteed to have that item in that many try's thats my thought

[Ydiss 15]

1 minute ago, LilyV3 said:

 

Wasn't APB anyways for adults by the TOS it had?

In the end what will happen? The same as with those "Oh yes here I am born in 1930 so I am adult now let me continue" context requests

And generally i do not understand this "it's gambling" thing. because if that's true, any sticker collection or trading card packs would fall under this as well. You cannot really blame the digital gaming industry having adopted that system. The issue is not the companies wanting money, that's their entire purpose at all, the issue are the idiots on customer side which utilize that system. if no customer ever had bought a lootbox, they wouldn't exist as a valid method of monetarization.

 

in the end G1 could just make a fake lootbox, buy a JMB get 1 day premium and a free random prize  

Also, would this "lootbox" system also count for games with wheels of fortunes and other gambling related mechanics, like, here buy an item upgrade, where the item could even shatter?= because here you truly "lose" something without gaining anything at all. if those bill would be made by competent gaming relation having people they would have to cover a lot of the "hidden lootboxes" which just come with different names and shapes because the gaming industry was pretty creative making them in all sorts of shapes and systems.

It does seem a messy situation to pick apart, doesn't it?

 

I'm definitely not the right person to answer all of these questions, nor am I particularly that bothered about the outcome of this story but I'm going to suggest that 25p sticker packs with a stick of gum included that you buy at the local corner shop don't likely pop up on the radar of those against children gambling compared to online game cash shops that people plough over $400 dollars into in one hit just to get the Legendary weapon they're after. The former is never likely to result in children getting their parents into masses of debt; the latter potentially is (and does; it is really a problem irrespective of whether I care about it or not).

 

I'm also not an expert on APB's current legal standpoint relating to whether access is limited to adults, to a regulatory compliant standard. All I know is that, if activity A is classified as gambling then the company offering activity A must legally prove their signup process restricts access to adults only; I'm equally sure that actual gambling websites don't accept "just say you're an adult and we'll all just agree to turn an eye if you turn out to be 10 years old" as validation. I once signed up to loads of gambling sites (I did a spot of bonus bagging way back when it was lucrative) and almost all of them required scanned photographic proof of ID to sign up for (like a passport).

 

It's all theory crafting, I really am not an expert nor do I really want/need to be. It is, however, an interesting point to ponder upon, particularly considering how proliferate this type of "game play" is in the industry on the whole (more so on the mobile platforms, where it's bloody rife and, in some cases, forms the entire basis of the game itself).

[Clandestine 390]

Battlepass would be much better than garbage boxes. At least it gives you some objectives to grind and rewards are gurantee.

[Glubbable 41]

Lootboxes are a cancer that infests the game industry at large. They need to be removed or massively reformed to be consumer friendly instead of current consumable slot machine model.

[illgot 379]

The only time I enjoyed loot boxes is when I picked up free ones while directly purchasing items off Armas.  I know from past experience my luck with gambling is horrible so I don't do it.  I am 100% not their target audience with gambling.

[Orcas 6]

The Belgian gambling law already banned lootboxes, I can't buy jmbs without a vpn.

Edited December 11, 2019 by Orcas

[LilyV3 323]

1 hour ago, Ydiss said:

It does seem a messy situation to pick apart, doesn't it?

 

I'm definitely not the right person to answer all of these questions, nor am I particularly that bothered about the outcome of this story but I'm going to suggest that 25p sticker packs with a stick of gum included that you buy at the local corner shop don't likely pop up on the radar of those against children gambling compared to online game cash shops that people plough over $400 dollars into in one hit just to get the Legendary weapon they're after. The former is never likely to result in children getting their parents into masses of debt; the latter potentially is (and does; it is really a problem irrespective of whether I care about it or not).

 

I'm also not an expert on APB's current legal standpoint relating to whether access is limited to adults, to a regulatory compliant standard. All I know is that, if activity A is classified as gambling then the company offering activity A must legally prove their signup process restricts access to adults only; I'm equally sure that actual gambling websites don't accept "just say you're an adult and we'll all just agree to turn an eye if you turn out to be 10 years old" as validation. I once signed up to loads of gambling sites (I did a spot of bonus bagging way back when it was lucrative) and almost all of them required scanned photographic proof of ID to sign up for (like a passport).

 

It's all theory crafting, I really am not an expert nor do I really want/need to be. It is, however, an interesting point to ponder upon, particularly considering how proliferate this type of "game play" is in the industry on the whole (more so on the mobile platforms, where it's bloody rife and, in some cases, forms the entire basis of the game itself).

I am not talking about the free sticker that came in a bubble gum pack, I am talking about actual collectible card stuff, where you just get random cards of an entire collection and nothing else. Stuff like

 

https://www.mytoys.de/topps-topps-bundesliga-saison-2018-2019-multipack-mit-11-tueten-10914957.html?sku=10914957&mc=deu_mts_onl_sea_google_mytoys-product-listing-ads_Sammelsticker_10914957&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIndfom7C-4gIVCs-yCh1sjQ8lEAkYBSABEgIYK_D_BwE 

 

or just any other TGC like magic, Yu Gi Oh and so on.

 

And pretty sure I could run my parents into $400 bills as well if I buy  of such sticker or TGC  packs as well. The more important question here is why parents give their payment information freely available to their children within a digital medium.

So if lootboxes fall under gambling and only be for adults, then these stuff should too. otherwise the reasoning is pretty bad because any gaming company could come up with those examples not counting, and technically they are just that in a digital way.

[vsb 6171]

as someone who has spent a lot of money on joker boxes, i honestly don’t mind them - especially compared to other games’ loot box models

 

sure there could be some consumer friendly tweaks (clearly displayed odds, no leases of items you have already purchased, etc), maybe some ingame balance changes (offering “normal” f2p variants of legendaries, tweaking current legendaries to be more unique than useful, etc), and legendaries should probably stop being called “legendary” so people stop thinking they’re supposed to be better (maybe take a page from the division and call them “exotics”)

 

in the end although i think joker boxes are mostly fine i won’t be too broken up about it if they’re removed 

 

effects on premium will be interesting to see, the bill is pretty vague on some of the p2w definitions

 

 regardless of all the speculation around exactly what is defined as what, this bill will likely take years to become law (if it ever does), not much of a point worrying about it now 

 

 

 

 

[Darkzero3802 611]

10 hours ago, Alani said:

considering the bill targets minors purchasing 'loot boxes'

 

 

its not really an issue when apb is considered 18+ to play

There are kids under 15 playing APB fyi. APB might be geared for 18+ but kiddies are playing it anyway so this will be an issue for LO regardless.

[LittleMoneyFirst 66]

13 minutes ago, Darkzero3802 said:

There are kids under 15 playing APB fyi. APB might be geared for 18+ but kiddies are playing it anyway so this will be an issue for LO regardless.

You can't control that... its like preventing cheaters to reroll.

If the game is +18 and you are underage, thats likely your problem.

[Darkzero3802 611]

2 minutes ago, SillyBear said:

You can't control that... its like preventing cheaters to reroll.

If the game is +18 and you are underage, thats likely your problem.

Yup and a lack of parenting. But the point is that this will affect LO as JMBs are gambling boxes in a nutshell and arent consumer friendly from the piss poor win rate to the lesser rewards that arent worth a penny.