Battleye

[LilyV3 323]

Just now, LaQuandra said:

You are incorrect. The developer can lock anything in the ini file to be edited. I've played games were the key bindings cannot be in change in the GUI and if you go to the ini edit, you're unable to change the key bindings there as well. If it's in the ini, it can be altered. If they really didn't want you to alter it, they'd lock it. Seems pretty simple to me.

being common =/= supposed to be done.

 

inis exist because devs can easily be adjusted without interacting in the code. What ini settings are supposed to be altered by the user is usually reachable trhough an ingame setting. Yes devs can lock them, but not locking them doesn't equal an allowance for the user to adjuts it at his will.

 

being able to =/= being allowed to =/= supposed to do

 

these 3 can have a connection but don't necessarily imply each other in any way.

[Similarities 226]

Just now, LilyV3 said:

being common =/= supposed to be done.

 

inis exist because devs can easily be adjusted without interacting in the code. What ini settings are supposed to be altered by the user is usually reachable trhough an ingame setting. Yes devs can lock them, but not locking them doesn't equal an allowance for the user to adjuts it at his will.

 

being able to =/= being allowed to =/= supposed to do

 

these 3 can have a connection but don't necessarily imply each other in any way.

As far as game development is concerned, trusting a client in any form with anything is bad, if you don't want the client tampering with things they're not supposed to be touching then make it clear by disallowing them to do so.

 

If you allow movement to be clientside, you better be prepared for cheaters to noclip.

If you allow ini files to be edited, you better be prepared for players to modify them if your game runs like absolute garbage.

If you decide that it's okay to be rebuilding the shader cache every time the game is launched, be prepared for players to modify shaders as they please.

 

Don't want people doing something? Don't give them the ability to do so. That's it.

I don't use shaders or anything as I actually like Little Orbit enough to listen to them when they say not to do something, I won't be using modified config files/localization files/shader files when BattlEye comes out, but if you allow people to do so with no repercussion, they will.

[LaQuandra 91]

4 minutes ago, LilyV3 said:

being common =/= supposed to be done.

 

inis exist because devs can easily be adjusted without interacting in the code. What ini settings are supposed to be altered by the user is usually reachable trhough an ingame setting. Yes devs can lock them, but not locking them doesn't equal an allowance for the user to adjuts it at his will.

 

being able to =/= being allowed to =/= supposed to do

 

these 3 can have a connection but don't necessarily imply each other in any way.

 

No. You're still wrong. The developers do not add every option into games for whatever reason but it doesn't mean they are against "always sprint" or "hold to crouch" or whatever else. Sometimes it can be an oversight. 

 

Again, if they truly didn't want you to do it, it'd be locked. Obviously they don't care if you edit your APBinput.ini. Why would they?

 

[CookiePuss 5356]

2 minutes ago, Similarities said:

 

Don't want people doing something? Don't give them the ability to do so. That's it.

 

I get where you are coming from. But if they both allow it to be possible and tell you its not allowed, when you get banned for it you have no one to blame but yourself.

But yeah, I'd like to see a statement that the spint and crouch shit is ok to modify.

Edited June 6, 2018 by CookiePuss

[Similarities 226]

Just now, CookiePuss said:

I get where you are coming from. But if they both allow it to be possible and tell you its not allowed, when you get banned for it you have no one to blame but yourself.

That's what I mean by "no repercussion" though, if you get banned for doing something you were told not to do, you faced the consequences of doing something you weren't supposed to be doing and as such, it's fair game, but if you don't act on people doing something you say not to do, don't be surprised when everyone starts doing it because they know they won't get in trouble. It's the reason so many people cheated/used modified shaders for so long despite both of them being disallowed, they knew they could get away with it. If you're going to talk the talk, you better walk the walk.

[CookiePuss 5356]

1 minute ago, Similarities said:

That's what I mean by "no repercussion" though, if you get banned for doing something you were told not to do, you faced the consequences of doing something you weren't supposed to be doing and as such, it's fair game, but if you don't act on people doing something you say not to do, don't be surprised when everyone starts doing it because they know they won't get in trouble. It's the reason so many people cheated/used modified shaders for so long despite both of them being disallowed, they knew they could get away with it. If you're going to talk the talk, you better walk the walk.

Ahh gotcha. Yeah you right.

[LilyV3 323]

8 minutes ago, Similarities said:

As far as game development is concerned, trusting a client in any form with anything is bad, if you don't want the client tampering with things they're not supposed to be touching then make it clear by disallowing them to do so.

 

If you allow movement to be clientside, you better be prepared for cheaters to noclip.

If you allow ini files to be edited, you better be prepared for players to modify them if your game runs like absolute garbage.

If you decide that it's okay to be rebuilding the shader cache every time the game is launched, be prepared for players to modify shaders as they please.

 

Don't want people doing something? Don't give them the ability to do so. That's it.

I don't use shaders or anything as I actually like Little Orbit enough to listen to them when they say not to do something, I won't be using modified config files/localization files/shader files when BattlEye comes out, but if you allow people to do so with no repercussion, they will.

 

Thats still not the way it works, don't TOS say do not alter files? So there is your disallowance. if people still fiddle around with and get probably banned thats their own fault and claiming "but I cna edit it so it must be allowed" isn't going to help at all.

 

7 minutes ago, LaQuandra said:

 

No. You're still wrong. The developers do not add every option into games for whatever reason but it doesn't mean they are against "always sprint" or "hold to crouch" or whatever else. Sometimes it can be an oversight. 

 

Again, if they truly didn't want you to do it, it'd be locked. Obviously they don't care if you edit your APBinput.ini. Why would they?

 

 

Sorry but thats the wrong mindset and wrong logic, you are as a user not uspposed to do stuff outside the runnign application just because you do does not make it correct or your logic true.

Edited June 6, 2018 by LilyV3

[Similarities 226]

Just now, LilyV3 said:

 

Thats still not the way it works, don't TOS say do not alter files? So there is your disallowance. if people still fiddle around with and get probably banned thats their own fault and claiming "but I cna edit it so it must be allowed" isn't going to help at all.

Read the above for my stance on that.

[AgentWatson 85]

1 minute ago, CookiePuss said:

I get where you are coming from. But if they both allow it to be possible and tell you its not allowed, when you get banned for it you have no one to blame but yourself.

Yes, this is true. However do Little Orbit want to set the precedent that banning people for simply editing things in the game that lets be honest, should've been there in the first place. I know plenty of TPS and FPS games on PC that have a toggle feature for sprinting and a hold feature for crouching. Look at any recent Battlefield game, although those games aren't entirely representative of the pinnacle of PC gaming the amount of features they allow you to change in those games including crosshairs, color of the crosshairs, transparency of HUD icons etc etc. 

 

It's just not good enough in my opinion anymore to just have the anemic features in APB, the game has been out for ages and its settings have remained pretty much consistent throughout its lifespan with the addition of anti-aliasing which no one uses because it's non competitive. Matt said, not to make changes to the files of the game in the QA but said he'd look into adding some of the features into the game and I'll definitely hold him to that, being half blind I'm still waiting for features that allow me to see colors a little better like the red of enemy name tags.

 

 

[CookiePuss 5356]

1 minute ago, AgentWatson said:

Yes, this is true. However do Little Orbit want to set the precedent that banning people for simply editing things in the game that lets be honest, should've been there in the first place. I know plenty of TPS and FPS games on PC that have a toggle feature for sprinting and a hold feature for crouching. Look at any recent Battlefield game, although those games aren't entirely representative of the pinnacle of PC gaming the amount of features they allow you to change in those games including crosshairs, color of the crosshairs, transparency of HUD icons etc etc. 

 

It's just not good enough in my opinion anymore to just have the anemic features in APB, the game has been out for ages and its settings have remained pretty much consistent throughout its lifespan with the addition of anti-aliasing which no one uses because it's non competitive. Matt said, not to make changes to the files of the game in the QA but said he'd look into adding some of the features into the game and I'll definitely hold him to that, being half blind I'm still waiting for features that allow me to see colors a little better like the red of enemy name tags.

 

 

Yeah, I stopped even using Adv Launcher til he said it was ok.

Im with you, Im not doing anything that isnt expressly stated as being ok.

Really hoping all these things we are discussing are going to be actual in game options.

Edited June 6, 2018 by CookiePuss

[Similarities 226]

Just now, AgentWatson said:

the addition of anti-aliasing which no one uses because it's non competitive.

1

Don't forget that it's terribly implemented, janky, and looks awful because of the white line it adds around your character (unless this finally got fixed.)

[Knite 158]

1 minute ago, LilyV3 said:

 

Thats still not the way it works, don't TOS say do not alter files? So there is your disallowance. if people still fiddle around with and get probably banned thats their own fault and claiming "but I cna edit it so it must be allowed" isn't going to help at all.

Considering mouse fix and Advanced Launcher were both expressly allowed by previous management, ToS was overridden.

 

As it stands, mouse fix doesn't do anything anymore, and Advanced Launcher is under investigation by LO to ensure its compatibility with BE. As BE is not live, I'm still using Advanced Launcher for better "ultra" settings than the in-game options allow for, but once the patch is announced, I'll be repairing or re-installing my client.

[LilyV3 323]

1 minute ago, Similarities said:

Read the above for my stance on that.

anyones stance is irrelevant to this.

[LaQuandra 91]

3 minutes ago, LilyV3 said:

Thats still not the way it works, don't TOS say do not alter files? So there is your disallowance

 

Guess if you changed your key bindings you're gonna get banned for altering files. Don't change your resolution either. Gonna get banned.

[Regenance 59]

200+ comments, whats all these comments about what have I missed?

[Similarities 226]

Just now, LilyV3 said:

anyones stance is irrelevant to this.

Nice one, because I basically agreed with you if they started taking action on people modifying config files, just saying "Don't do this or something might happen, it may or may not, but it COULD happen...maybe...possibly..." is stupid, if I can edit the files and you don't act on me doing so, I'm going to edit the files. Game dev 101, don't trust the client to listen to your word, enforce your word. Actions speak louder than words.

[LilyV3 323]

6 minutes ago, LaQuandra said:

 

Guess if you changed your key bindings you're gonna get banned for altering files. Don't change your resolution either. Gonna get banned.

 

yes could happen, its still a difference if those things get altered through the ingame or by any other user directly in the File, so yes it COULD happen, because you do stuff you aren't supposed to do.

 

@SImilarities

 

 

if the client doesn't listen all consequences are his own fault, thats liek your warranty being gone because you opened your laptop within Warranty time which you were not supposed to do.

This is just how it works, and just because youc an open it and probably do undust it yourself, you never should do so, not if you expect warranty to stay for those 3 years.

 

Just because they have not enforced anythign before simply doesn't means they won't in a future. Thats the danger many might run into, And "but you never acted against it" isn't a workign excuse then.

Edited June 6, 2018 by LilyV3

[LaQuandra 91]

7 minutes ago, LilyV3 said:

 

yes could happen, its still a difference if those things get altered through the ingame or by any other user directly in the File, so yes it COULD happen, because you do stuff you aren't supposed to do.

 

 

How exactly does it know if you used the GUI or manually changed it? Isn't the GUI just a way of automatically changing the same file? Please explain.

[LilyV3 323]

8 minutes ago, LaQuandra said:

 

How exactly does it know if you used the GUI or manually changed it? Isn't the GUI just a way of automatically changing the same file? Please explain.

 

depends how BE can be implemented your OS does track quite a few thinsg about when and who alters a file. So there is that, that could reveal it. BE iss aid to be very intrusive, so it surely has ways (and will impelmented in ways) to figure out such simple things.

 

btw

 

https://store.steampowered.com/eula/eula_113400 (if they are still the up to date ones)

 

" 3.1.3 modify the Game or any files forming part of the Game in any way not expressly authorized by Reloaded; "

 

so theres that we can use the AL because it was expressely authorised

Edited June 6, 2018 by LilyV3

[Similarities 226]

BE is a literal rootkit, so yeah it's intrusive, and it's also a good indicator of how bad cheating has become when you'd rather have a rootkit on your PC than play against cheaters. I for one will be happy to let Bastian Suter have a look at all of my anime profile pics if it means I can play a cheater free vidya game.

[LilyV3 323]

Just now, Similarities said:

BE is a literal rootkit, so yeah it's intrusive, and it's also a good indicator of how bad cheating has become when you'd rather have a rootkit on your PC than play against cheaters. I for one will be happy to let Bastian Suter have a look at all of my anime profile pics if it means I can play a cheater free vidya game.

 

he can't watch as much pr0n as BE could gather xD

[magik 184]

3 hours ago, LilyV3 said:

being common =/= supposed to be done.

 

inis exist because devs can easily be adjusted without interacting in the code. What ini settings are supposed to be altered by the user is usually reachable trhough an ingame setting. Yes devs can lock them, but not locking them doesn't equal an allowance for the user to adjuts it at his will.

 

being able to =/= being allowed to =/= supposed to do

 

these 3 can have a connection but don't necessarily imply each other in any way.

 

3 hours ago, LilyV3 said:

 

yes could happen, its still a difference if those things get altered through the ingame or by any other user directly in the File, so yes it COULD happen, because you do stuff you aren't supposed to do.

 

@SImilarities

 

 

if the client doesn't listen all consequences are his own fault, thats liek your warranty being gone because you opened your laptop within Warranty time which you were not supposed to do.

This is just how it works, and just because youc an open it and probably do undust it yourself, you never should do so, not if you expect warranty to stay for those 3 years.

 

Just because they have not enforced anythign before simply doesn't means they won't in a future. Thats the danger many might run into, And "but you never acted against it" isn't a workign excuse then.

 

Being a Computer Science student helps with situations like these. If you create a program (game) that takes in input from the user, you only want a specific type of input, so you only allow the user to enter in what you give them, or what you want to give them. If they enter in something you don't want, you have to account for that, and prevent them from doing it.

Hence:

int input;
cin >> input;
while(true){
  if(input <= 0)
    cout << "Please enter a value greater than zero" << endl;
  else {
    cout << "Thank you for entering a value" << endl;
    break;
  }
}

If the programmer doesn't want an integer less than or equal to zero, account for it, and prevent it.

If Little Orbit doesn't want a user to edit ini files, have default values set, and overridden when the game starts.

Oh wait, it already does that.

 

Now, I'm not saying to and edit everything to be fine tuned to your heart's desire. EULA states you can't edit the game's files. Don't edit the files, if you get caught and banned for editing them, don't say you weren't warned.

 

If that's not an adequate comparison.

Apple Inc. doesn't want you to reverse engineer their operating system, MacOS. However, there's a big community that do that, they make PC's run MacOS, and they're called Hackintoshes. You can't go and publicize telling people to do it, Apple will sue you, but you can say that it can be done. If you do it, you're not going to get arrested or sued, Apple has bigger fish to fry. You'll be fine if you do it. Worst thing that can happen is Apple will disable your computer from connecting to their services.

 

(Also, Apple says in their ToS and EULA to not use their computers for any sort of nuclear arms development or launch systems... soooo...?) *in case anyone gets upset, last statement was sarcastic*

[OverwolfChris 1]

On 6/5/2018 at 8:45 PM, Sniperturtle said:

 

1. Changing game files through a text-editor is pretty alarming to BE and other programs that might check them for additions. Gamersfirst NEVER APPROVED of modifications to the game files by the way and such actions were ALWAYS PRONE TO BAN.

2. Third party programs were never fine, not in G1 APB, and not for Battleye

3. Battleye is usually not answering such requests in a useful manner.

 

What you have written there is the roadmap to a banned copy of ArmA3, and i doubt it'll be much better on APB.

Just wait for LO to make an announcement, and be very careful with overlays and other 3rd party plugins and programs.

Hey, Chris from Overwolf here.

 

Overwolf is working in cooperation with BattleEye to avoid any violation of its terms.

Please note that Overwolf doesn't have a custom crosshair app, there might be unofficial unauthorized apps, developed outside of Overwolf that we can't control (we usually block those) and I can't say that using a custom crosshair won't get you banned. However, using official Overwolf apps - will never get you banned.

[MartisLTU 265]

Im so sick of those players who cant play like normal ppl. Im playing since 2013 without any help without any custom crosshair, autosprint, mausefix, autoCrouch ...etc. So why you cant play like i do ?

Edited June 7, 2018 by MartisLTU

[Ohshii 215]

5 minutes ago, MartisLTU said:

 big words