The reason why ghostshots happen.

[Ketog 1031]

9 hours ago, Wewhoo said:

Cool finding ! Have you tried doing the same macro to get stuck in crouch ? (i.e. standing on client-side, but crouching on server-side)
Also, have you managed to get the client to register a mouse-hold, but not the server ? Like ghostshooting an entire ntec mag.

 

For the first one , no i've never tried

As for the second bug, i believe that used to happen before, and basically made you shoot without recoil/ any kind of feedback on your screen but then got fixed later

 

8 hours ago, neophobia said:

While this seems like one reason - I'd be highly surprised if this was the only - or even the main one. 15ms is a *very* short time and this does not fully explain all ghostshots (e.g. when actually autoing).

Good finding though.

 

using macros to gain a competetive advantage is bannable, we get it. (also jeez the amount useless fullquotes of op. (attaboy yood too xd))

 

"bannable" also does in fact not mean "will be banned", it (always) lies in LOs jurisdiction.

 

(I suppose once they get their serversided AC up and running, this might be one thing they address. i think battleye also already kicks when AHK is running?)

 

Well the thing is that 15 MS is what's written on the screenshot that i show , but as i said on the video or the post , this delay happends to be ~50ms on APB , i agree that 15ms is completely fine , but 50 is a whole different story.

Edited March 27, 2019 by Ketog

[neophobia 216]

3 hours ago, Ketog said:

Well the thing is that 15 MS is what's written on the screenshot that i show , but as i said on the video or the post , this delay happends to be ~50ms on APB , i agree that 15ms is completely fine , but 50 is a whole different story.

oh. jeez. whoops, missed that. 50ms actually seems like something one realistically hits.

[Conquest 14]

Why do games wait for 15ms of hold time to register a hit? Shouldn't it just see that a button is pressed and immediately do something with that info?

[Speedz 147]

2 hours ago, Conquest said:

Why do games wait for 15ms of hold time to register a hit? Shouldn't it just see that a button is pressed and immediately do something with that info?

Games do not "wait" for an event, they check if an event has happened - if I understood it correctly. Removing the small wait time on loops like that will end up in very fast loops which impacts overall client performance a lot.

Edited March 27, 2019 by Speedz

[Ketog 1031]

2 hours ago, Speedz said:

Games do not "wait" for an event, they check if an event has happened - if I understood it correctly. Removing the small wait time on loops like that will end up in very fast loops which impacts overall client performance a lot.

Im not an game developper so i don't know how accurate this statement is , but it definetely changed something as the whole topic is based on this .

 

[MartisLTU 265]

I have question ! ... So i constantly getting bad hitreg on full auto weapons, while most ppl. i meet in FC have perfect hitreg on same weapon.

If i use macro with 16-17ms on full auto weapons .. does it counts as cheating or fix ?

[CookiePuss 5378]

21 minutes ago, MartisLTU said:

I have question ! ... So i constantly getting bad hitreg on full auto weapons, while most ppl. i meet in FC have perfect hitreg on same weapon.

If i use macro with 16-17ms on full auto weapons .. does it counts as cheating or fix ?

Try learning to aim and manage bloom. 

[MartisLTU 265]

15 minutes ago, CookiePuss said:

Try learning to aim and manage bloom. 

I don't want to be mean, but im playing since 2013 i don't think that 2017 player can teach me something new ...

Btw... since you got that shiny SPCT badge, you started to defend "LO" and APB flaws bit too much... Its disgrace.

( surprise me with your troll answer) 

[AsgerLund 1271]

Great thread, Ketog, great value to increasing in-game knowledge. Ignore the people with their Dunning Kruger fueled agendas.

[Cr0 328]

I remember a rumour stating it was due to a "secret" delay put in to counter rate of fire exploits back in the day, which then had the side effect of ghost shots.

[Ketog 1031]

22 minutes ago, SilverCrow said:

I remember a rumour stating it was due to a "secret" delay put in to counter rate of fire exploits back in the day, which then had the side effect of ghost shots.

 

i think what you're talking about is this , you basically had shots that had no feedback  client side making you shoot without recoil or feeling anything

[CookiePuss 5378]

2 hours ago, MartisLTU said:

I don't want to be mean, but im playing since 2013 i don't think that 2017 player can teach me something new ...

Btw... since you got that shiny SPCT badge, you started to defend "LO" and APB flaws bit too much... Its disgrace.

( surprise me with your troll answer) 

2017?

Swing and a miss. 

Must have been bad hitreg though. 

 

 

(Side note: I don't even know Flaws)

 

 

Edited March 27, 2019 by CookiePuss

[BrandonBranderson 672]

A lot of good info here, thanks Ketog!  That explains a lot too.   Usually when I get spooked is when I get the most ghost shots, and my usual response to getting spooked is having a mini freak out and just clicking as fast as I can hoping to hit something.  So from now on just slow it down a bit.  Good to know.

 

 

3 hours ago, MartisLTU said:

I don't want to be mean, but im playing since 2013 i don't think that 2017 player can teach me something new ...

 Btw... since you got that shiny SPCT badge, you started to defend "LO" and APB flaws bit too much... Its disgrace.

 ( surprise me with your troll answer) 

 

lol, do you really think LO would hand select a brand new player to be an SPCT?  Cookie has been around for years and years, he's just on a new forum account.  If I remember right he had a fairly controversial ban (meaning that he didn't actually do anything wrong) and a lot of people were supporting him trying to get his account back.  Am I remembering the right person here?  Correct me if I'm wrong.

Edited March 27, 2019 by BrandonBranderson

[Uhtdred 238]

The more latency you have, the more ghost shots you get. I can confirm this, because i used to play hoplon with 50ms and got almost no ghost shots (with carbine), now i play with 190ms and get ghost shots all the time.

[yood 345]

On 3/27/2019 at 2:02 AM, Ketog said:

Hello everyone , as the engine upgrade is getting closer to us, i've decided to finally make that video (as the engine upgrade might actually be a fix for this), showing why do ghostshots in apb happen and even how to make them intentionally .

 

Here is a (quite long) video with me showing everything, for people that do not want to watch it , i will also explain it in text under this video :

 

 

Why do ghostshots happen and how i found out what causes them :

 

Alright so , i was basically trying to make a tap fire macro NTEC to see how fast the gun can be fired while keeping maximum accuracy , and i've noticed that whatever i did , i was having an insane ammounts of ghostshots when trying the macro on my clanmates, i then found this in a guide to make macros work properly on most games :

 

This talks about the keyboard , but it also seems to be a thing for the mouse in APB, Basically what that text says, is if you don't hold your keys for more than 15ms  the game won't register it as it checks every 15ms if a key is pressed, but what i noticed with apb, is that for the mouse, that delay is not 15ms but ~50ms which is considerably higher, what this means is , if you hold your shooting key for less than 50ms there is an aproximative 50-70% chance that you will do a ghostshot (which is actually hear your gun fireing, having the recoil of it, and seeing the muzzle flash, but not actually shooting a bullet server side)

 

Before going further i want to say that i do not condone the use of macros, do not use macros, you WILL get banned if you do, im doing this for educational puproses and the sake of curiosity.

 

In this video , i basically made two macros that does 3 shot bursts of NTEC to achieve maximum accuracy + maximum fire rate  with , one that holds LMB for about 1ms delay and the other that holds LMB for about 150-170ms

 

The first macros with a 1 MS LMB hold , generates up to 3 ghostshots in a single burst

 

The second one with a 170ms LMB Hold has no ghostshots .

 

this shows that if you don't hold LMB for longer than 50ms it's basically a matter of luck if your shots get registered or not, the problem with this is that you don't even need to be need to be an experienced player to produce a click that lasts less than 50ms , actually most people will without much effort, produce a click that lasts less than 30ms . 

 

So in the end, all of this shows that :

Tap fireing someone very fast at close range, will make you very likely to get ghot shots.

If you are somone that's very reactive, and tend to do clicks in quick sucessions to hit someone, you're also likely to get ghostshots.

Basically any type of fast gameplay can result in ghost shots.

 

 

Here is some more things i noticed :

 

-Those type of ghostshots seems to happen mostly on automatic weapons.

-It can also happen with semi auto weapons, but is much less likely to do so.

-Shotguns are also prone to this problem, especially after switching weapons.

 

Now as i said above, this issue might be caused by APB running on directX9 which is a very old version of DirectX, as the engine upgrade uses DX 11 this problem might disappear or at least heavly be mitigated .

 

So yeah this is it, please take all of this info with a grain of salt as the tests were done with only a few people, while all of them experienced the same results as i did, it doesn't mean that everyone will, thanks.

Hi Ketog.   I'm playing a game on the console . can I use this method ?

8 hours ago, Uhtdred said:

The more latency you have, the more ghost shots you get. I can confirm this, because i used to play hoplon with 50ms and got almost no ghost shots (with carbine), now i play with 190ms and get ghost shots all the time.

 I play with a minimum of 260 ms ) against 1-150 ms and many players consider it an equal match .

Edited March 28, 2019 by Yood

[Ketog 1031]

Im not sure everyone understands what i am saying in the main thread

 

briefly , what im saying is if you hold lmb for less than ~50ms you have a chance to get a ghost shot .

 

your ingame latency has nothing to do with it , yes latency and internet stabillity does affect hit registration but that's another topic, what im showing here is unaffected by your client-server latency.

Edited March 28, 2019 by Ketog

[yood 345]

4 minutes ago, Ketog said:

 i basically made two macros that does 3 shot 

Hi Ketog.   I'm playing a game on the console . can I use this method ?

Edited March 28, 2019 by Yood

[Ketog 1031]

1 minute ago, Yood said:

Hi Ketog.   I'm playing a game on the console . can I use this method ?

not sure which "method" you're talking about , but i don't know , if the delay is the same on console, it's probably not knowing the game is on DX 11

[yood 345]

1 minute ago, Ketog said:

not sure which "method" you're talking about , but i don't know , if the delay is the same on console, it's probably not knowing the game is on DX 11

please tell me how do I apply the macro and install the Advanced APB Launcher ?  I'm new and play APB on the console .

Edited March 28, 2019 by Yood

[MartisLTU 265]

21 hours ago, CookiePuss said:

2017?

Swing and a miss. 

Must have been bad hitreg though. 

 

 

(Side note: I don't even know Flaws)

 

 

Easy to miss when ya see false info under your name. Tho still i stand clear ... its absurd when some one sayd: "Try learning to aim and manage bloom" to a veteran whos playing 6 years. (I take it as an insult).

 

20 hours ago, BrandonBranderson said:

lol, do you really think LO would hand select a brand new player to be an SPCT?  Cookie has been around for years and years, he's just on a new forum account.  If I remember right he had a fairly controversial ban (meaning that he didn't actually do anything wrong) and a lot of people were supporting him trying to get his account back.  Am I remembering the right person here?  Correct me if I'm wrong.

 Even so hes pretty defensive when some one drops some criticism on APB/LO. I just wonder does this comes right after he got dat flashy badge. 

Alot of banned ppl. had support from community ... doesn't make them less shady.

[CookiePuss 5378]

11 minutes ago, MartisLTU said:

Easy to miss when ya see false info under your name. 

Well there's your problem, forum join date isn't the same thing as the date one started playing. 

Some players never join the forums. 

 

11 minutes ago, MartisLTU said:

 Even so hes pretty defensive when some one drops some criticism on APB/LO. I just wonder does this comes right after he got dat flashy badge. 

Sheesh, and here I am stressing I'm going to be removed from SPCT for being overly critical. 

 

 

Anyways, didn't mean to insult you.

Truce?

[MartisLTU 265]

1 hour ago, CookiePuss said:

Anyways, didn't mean to insult you.

Truce?

 

Truce ! 

[DedGaem 146]

On 3/26/2019 at 1:25 PM, MattScott said:

Hi all,

 

As much as I appreciate the banter on the forums, I appreciate the time spent by Ketog to post his findings. 

This is an irritating problem that we have spent months hunting down.

Let's keep this civil and respect, what I believe, was meant to be a helpful post.

 

Thanks,

Matt

LO investigating how to make macros work correctly... I'm done. Just hire MrEpicGoat and he can teach your coders to make us all flyyyyyyy.

Dead gaym is... dead.

 

[Cr0 328]

On 3/27/2019 at 7:01 PM, Ketog said:

 

i think what you're talking about is this , you basically had shots that had no feedback  client side making you shoot without recoil or feeling anything

Nope, that's not the one I'm referring to.

[Noob_Guardian 417]

5 hours ago, Hey! said:

LO investigating how to make macros work correctly... I'm done. Just hire MrEpicGoat and he can teach your coders to make us all flyyyyyyy.

Dead gaym is... dead.

 

no, they are investigating ghost shots and bad hit reg. By the sounds of it OP may have helped them fix that issue.