Let's talk: OTW Improved Rifling

[Ashley 19]

2 hours ago, LO_Beastie said:

Hi, I'll be writing up a larger post on this in another balance thread,, but I should mention my reasoning behind this...

Interesting changes, if a bit drastic! I think that a simple 8% decrease in ROF (opposite of CJ3) would be enough of a downside rather than something as heavy-handed as 21%. IR3 is strong but it's definitely not a dominant mod, not even on the N-TEC where Cooling Jacket is a viable alternative. The upside of 7m increased range definitely isn't enough to overcome such an increase in TTK so it may go the way of Heavy Barrel (unused) in the current state.

I'm wondering if the ROF decrease also affects the burst interval on the OSCAR/OBIR? If it only affects the base ROF it may have little to no downside and keep IR3 as the only viable red modification on those burst weapons.

[Uqe 17]

45 minutes ago, Nite said:

1 hour ago, Uqe said:

could just increase the maximum bloom reticle

Current IR3 has this and even if they made the effect more drastic, tap fire ARs would never see it play out in practice anyway

i know it has it, but it's very minimal, it needs a larger max bloom reticle. of course tap firing would never see its effect. thats the whole point. nerfing the spray aspect of the ntec, not the tap fire. Edited August 4, 2018 by Uqe

[slaughs 9]

IR3 is perfectly balanced atm, why th even nerf it? You are basicly deleting the mod itself from the game. Yes, it does make the range bigger but it makes bloom much bigger aswell, what kind of bull***t it gonna be with -21% of fire rate? why? Why making it as useless as Heavy barrel reducing damage? The ttk of every weapon decides mostly everything in this game so nobody (who is not a silver for sure) will be playing with IR and especially with IR3.
A couple of examples. Ok. Imagine nobody cares about NTEC (shooting 1 shot per second), but
1) Obeya - 1 shot per 2 seconds?
2) OBIR - 1 burst per 2 seconds?
3) OSCAR - 1 burst per 2 seconds?
4) Carbine - 1 shot per second? Ridiculous
5) CSG with IR - no comments guys, this is ridiculous
6) RFP fang - armas gun muchworse than free2play?
7) STAR LCR (IR3 version) - 1 shot per 10 seconds?
8) Scopped NTEC PR2 - make it more useless than now ty
9) Shredder (ir3 preset version) - make it more useless (2)

and this is only a few examples
Hopefully not the only one, I am ridiculously mad and compeletely against the IR nerf, it should never be brought to the game.

[vsb 6171]

2 minutes ago, slaughs said:

IR3 is perfectly balanced atm, why th even nerf it? You are basicly deleting the mod itself from the game. Yes, it does make the range bigger but it makes bloom much bigger aswell, what kind of bull***t it gonna be with -21% of fire rate? why? Why making it as useless as Heavy barrel reducing damage? The ttk of every weapon decides mostly everything in this game so nobody (who is not a silver for sure) will be playing with IR and especially with IR3.
A couple of examples. Ok. Imagine nobody cares about NTEC (shooting 1 shot per second), but
1) Obeya - 1 shot per 2 seconds?
2) OBIR - 1 burst per 2 seconds?
3) OSCAR - 1 burst per 2 seconds?
4) Carbine - 1 shot per second? Ridiculous
5) CSG with IR - no comments guys, this is ridiculous
6) RFP fang - armas gun muchworse than free2play?
7) STAR LCR (IR3 version) - 1 shot per 10 seconds?
Scopped NTEC PR2 - make it more useless than now ty
9) Shredder (ir3 preset version) - make it more useless (2)

and this is only a few examples
Hopefully not the only one, I am ridiculously mad and compeletely against the IR nerf, it should never be brought to the game.

as much as i don’t like this potential change, your examples are either idiotic or unuseful hyperbole 

[Spheri 66]

IR3 has been untouched for too long, I'm pretty sure it didn't need this much of a drastic change but we'll see. I'm all for meta shifts.

[slaughs 9]

17 minutes ago, BXNNXD said:

as much as i don’t like this potential change, your examples are either idiotic or unuseful hyperbole 

Imagine any weapon with preset IR3, especially CSG/TAS20 Stock. Everyone will be outshooting you with EVERY shotgun without this mod just because of its fire rate. You won't be happy, will you? Yes, some people (including myself) have most of weapons in their locker and they'll just be using the ones without IR but how about someone who was saving $ for a CSG PR1/Tas20 Stock and bought it finally? This is what I am trying to explain.

[DouglasFalcon 125]

27 minutes ago, slaughs said:

56 minutes ago, BXNNXD said:

as much as i don’t like this potential change, your examples are either idiotic or unuseful hyperbole 

Imagine any weapon with preset IR3, especially CSG/TAS20 Stock. Everyone will be outshooting you with EVERY shotgun without this mod just because of its fire rate. You won't be happy, will you? Yes, some people (including myself) have most of weapons in their locker and they'll just be using the ones without IR but how about someone who was saving $ for a CSG PR1/Tas20 Stock and bought it finally? This is what I am trying to explain.

So if I spent a lot of money just to get HVR and finally have quickswitch, do I deserve a refund or what?
Your argument just doesn't make sense, and you're complaining about something that's still in stage 1 testing. Just calm down and try to provide actual feedback by playing OTW

[Slickmund 58]

Sure 21% seems excessive, it probably is. But to show clear differences it's best to start with drastic changes and water it down to a sweetspot, I believe this is what they're trying to do. IR3 does need a change, though personally I feel like Heavy barrel needs it even more.

Edited August 4, 2018 by Slickmund

[Keshi 436]

i am fine with IR3...it is too OP

[BlatMan 711]

5 minutes ago, Keshi said:

i am fine with IR3...it is too OP

I'm fine with it being OP too. It's such a small range difference. Most players would have died regardless.

[Hexerin 1140]

5 hours ago, DouglasFalcon said:

So if I spent a lot of money just to get HVR and finally have quickswitch, do I deserve a refund or what?
Your argument just doesn't make sense, and you're complaining about something that's still in stage 1 testing. Just calm down and try to provide actual feedback by playing OTW

His argument makes perfect sense, and if these changes go through he won't be the only one pissed off. I own the TAS20 Stock (account bound), which has Improved Rifling 3 and Tagger, and use it often. This change outright destroys that gun, makes it unusable in actual gameplay. I'm already debating putting in a support ticket for a refund or variant exchange.

This gets even worse if they choose to not limit the effect to shotguns, because then it would kill another gun I own, the Temptress. That one I can't even request a refund for, because it was obtained via non-paid methods, nor can I request a variant exchange, because it has no variants that would be valid to exchange. The gun would just be a hunk of wood and metal in my gun locker, forever.

  Edited August 5, 2018 by Hexerin

[CookiePuss 5378]

7 minutes ago, Hexerin said:

His argument makes perfect sense, and if these changes go through he won't be the only one pissed off. I own the TAS20 Stock (account bound), which has Improved Rifling 3 and Tagger, and use it often. This change outright destroys that gun, makes it unusable in actual gameplay. I'm already debating putting in a support ticket for a refund or variant exchange.

This gets even worse if they choose to not limit the effect to shotguns, because then it would kill another gun I own, the Temptress. That one I can't even request a refund for, because it was obtained via non-paid methods, nor can I request a variant exchange, because it has no variants that would be valid to exchange. The gun would just be a hunk of wood and metal in my gun locker, forever.

 

Welcome to gaming friend.
Hex youve been around long enough that the Tas20 Stock will probably be kept company by a Troublemaker, maybe a nano, or even a Yukon.
You cant pretend you didnt know that stats can change anytime. Sometimes changes work in your favor, sometimes they dont. I can understand not being happy about it, but you have to know thats just how things go.
  Edited August 5, 2018 by CookiePuss

[Hexerin 1140]

1 minute ago, CookiePuss said:

Welcome to gaming friend.
Hex youve been around long enough that the Tas20 Stock will probably be kept company by a Troublemaker, maybe a nano, or even a Yukon.
You cant pretend you didnt know that stats can change anytime. Sometimes changes work in your favor, sometimes they dont. I can understand not being happy about it, but you have to know thats just how things go.

Stats changing I'm perfectly fine with, balance is an ever-changing and ongoing process that by its nature can never be completed. Changing the way something functions on the fundamental level, to the point of literally removing viability (full stop), is an entirely different story.

[CookiePuss 5378]

30 minutes ago, Hexerin said:

Stats changing I'm perfectly fine with, balance is an ever-changing and ongoing process that by its nature can never be completed. Changing the way something functions on the fundamental level, to the point of literally removing viability (full stop), is an entirely different story.

And yet still a thing that can happen at any time.

[Toasted 9]

7 hours ago, slaughs said:

7 hours ago, BXNNXD said:

as much as i don’t like this potential change, your examples are either idiotic or unuseful hyperbole 

Imagine any weapon with preset IR3, especially CSG/TAS20 Stock. Everyone will be outshooting you with EVERY shotgun without this mod just because of its fire rate. You won't be happy, will you? Yes, some people (including myself) have most of weapons in their locker and they'll just be using the ones without IR but how about someone who was saving $ for a CSG PR1/Tas20 Stock and bought it finally? This is what I am trying to explain.

its not even that bad, for the csg it goes from .7 seconds to .84 seconds, and keep in mind the whole point of shotguns is to corner camp so a skilled user wont be affected. Infact, the whole shotgun rework is a buff overall.

[Hexerin 1140]

20 minutes ago, Toasted said:

it goes from .7 seconds to .84 seconds

That's a huge difference in this game, especially in CQC.

  Edited August 5, 2018 by Hexerin

[Unclean 45]

I'm a fan of this since accuracy/spread is one of the most important things to me when selecting and modding a weapon.. but I do think 21% is a bit harsh. Maybe more like -4%,-8%,-12% or something like that

[Hexerin 1140]

Instead of reducing the fire rate reduction, what if they increased the range bonus? It's always been something that bothered me, that it's not a divisible of five.

So what if it was:

• +5m/+10m/+15m range
• -5%/-15%/-25% fire rate

[AxeTurboAgresor 268]

Oh no no no. Do not touch my rate of fire. Keep it for shotguns maybe, but only up to 8%, but for other weapons u better use other methods to increase TTK in practise such as bigger bloom, and bigger max spread so it will be worse in cqc. This is how you balance stuff. This also makes more sence.. to make your weapon shoot further, you get bigger punch, therefore its less accurate.

It also reminds me that cooling jacket mode should not affect max spread on weapons.

[Hexerin 1140]

2 minutes ago, AxeTurboAgresor said:

It also reminds me that cooling jacket mode should not affect max spread on weapons.

All of my yes. This needs to be fixed, it's so stupid.

[thelinux 51]

19 hours ago, LO_Beastie said:

Rifling has always been a funny one, on a lot of weapons it has basically no downside as they aren't designed to hit their maximum bloom (Rifles, Shotguns and Snipers primarily). With the changes to shotgun mechanics, we're now balancing them partly on effective range (rather than just ray-spread), and thus Rifling goes from being a fairly negligible mod on them (no downside but only a tiny poking upside) to actually being a major benefit. Due to this, we need a downside on Rifling that will affect shotguns.

^ This. Good thinking!

[Seadee 107]

Probably been suggested but I'm on mobile and can't be bothered to trawl... 

Why not make the range improvement on IR % based rather than a flat gain. 

Then short range weapons will only marginally benefit it but still gain a benefit. 

[CookiePuss 5378]

26 minutes ago, Seadee said:

Probably been suggested but I'm on mobile and can't be bothered to trawl... 

Why not make the range improvement on IR % based rather than a flat gain. 

Then short range weapons will only marginally benefit it but still gain a benefit. 

Thats actually a really interesting idea. 
Why has this not been tried?

[Uqe 17]

☝

and then make IR3's downside a little more "significant" and we're all good 

A value like 13% would be worth trying for IR3

Edited August 5, 2018 by Uqe

[Hexerin 1140]

1 hour ago, Seadee said:

Probably been suggested but I'm on mobile and can't be bothered to trawl...
Why not make the range improvement on IR % based rather than a flat gain.
Then short range weapons will only marginally benefit it but still gain a benefit. 

That sounds hella interesting.