Shotty talk

[vsb 6171]

Just now, Percocet said:

Ya bullet holes are as well especially on the hvr, ignoring bloom after shooting secondary and you see it fly off into the shit abyss on the road and hits the middle of the crosshair. I wonder if tracers were back in the day probly

it gets ridiculous sometimes tbh

i miss the debug hitmarkers so much

[YeOldLegends 51]

1 hour ago, CookiePuss said:

Shotguns are INFAMOUS for hitreg issues.
Why do you think they are getting the "buff" they are getting?

Oh, shit that explains a lot about why putting 5 shells into someones face sometimes doesn't kill the person. 

[Slickmund 58]

12 minutes ago, YeOldLegends said:

1 hour ago, CookiePuss said:

Shotguns are INFAMOUS for hitreg issues.
Why do you think they are getting the "buff" they are getting?

Oh, shit that explains a lot about why putting 5 shells into someones face sometimes doesn't kill the person. 

You shoot pellets with a shotgun though, I would love to see em add slugs but I guess thats off-limits in terms of balancing right now. But to be a real nerdo, you dont fire a shell, shells are what tanks and artillery fires.
To specify more thoroughly, a shell, like the name suggests in other areas as well, is a hardened container. Strictly, not even all the rounds a tank can fire are shells. HE's are shells for an instance, whilst APCR, which is basically a dart isn't. If you are however blowing shells into someones face, Id suggest holding your shotgun the other way around, you wanna shoot em with the end where the pellets come out. Edited July 18, 2018 by Slickmund

[Nickyan 13]

CSG seems to have less random spread pattern and more consistent damage, most likely due to higher pellet count. Furthermore it's got tighter spread too so CSG is the winner for me.

JG is moddable, but mods matter little in these two guns. Best setup is probably mag pull + 3 point sling which Country Gent offers anyway. People preach about IR but you're probably better off swapping to your secondary at the range it becomes relevant. Sure you can put cj3 on JG but the spread becomes horrible, so why not just play NFAS as it has same spread as JG but faster TTK?

Edited July 18, 2018 by Nickyan

[Slickmund 58]

JG damage per pellet does it for me really, NFAS cant touch that. Ive been beating a lot of CSG users today, Ive come to terms with not entirely being able to trust the weapons damage output seen as RNG can have a huge effect on it, I rely on my Colby for the real killing. But Ive been getting a lot of toxic whispers today about my tagging and jumpshot follow ups, which I cant do as well with the CSG. For reference I use IR3 and 3PS on it. See no point in using mag pull on it. It strips bullets you can resupply faster again, but in the heat I rather have a bigger mag to depend on than being able to reload quickly.

[SLICKIEM 118]

CSG, NFAS, JG, even Strife all have their strengths and weaknesses. They are applicable in the scenario where it's strength is played well. For example, the Strife is the king of assists/finishing for CQC, not so much solo kills. The JG is a balance between assist/finishing power and fire rate, at the cost of spread. The CSG is the same but trades even more damage for tighter spread. NFAS is primarily a solo-kill weapon for people that have good tracking aim. They're all great and it just comes down to preference and your natural playstyle.

p.s. JG is better if you find yourself hitting partial hits a lot. Since spread is higher than CSG you can afford to be a little sloppy and still 2-hit. CSG leaves absolutely no room for error if you want to 2-shot.

[Crunk 88]

4 hours ago, CookiePuss said:

Strife can 1 shot fragile, but only with a near perfect shot (missing 2 pellets makes it a 2 shot).
JG does 792 damage.
CSG does 651.

But yeah CSG has tighter grouping so slight better outside of extreme cqc.

Strife at 25m with IR3 is rng based luck, not to mention 2.5 second ttk with 3 shots.
 

does satisfaction of killing not count? I mean the strife is fun as fuh lol

[Senodus 49]

I think that csg is way superior because when my aim is on point I can 2 shoot much much more reliabley and at much further distances as with the Jg. Jg, because of it's bigger spread, is almost always a 3 shoot for me regardless of how good my aim is or how close the enemy is. 

Edited July 19, 2018 by xSagittiSx

[Slickmund 58]

I gave the CSG another spin last night and feel like I now understand the general preference towards the CSG. It simply is way more consistent in damage output at any but in your face range, there the JG performs a little better imho. I still ended up switching back to the JG in the end, because I do quite love its RNG factor. You can pull some really funky shit off with that gun in some situations. Last night I managed to get 2 double kills (with 1 shot) after softening them up with an amazing (also lucky) concussion grenade. I have not been able to do this with the CSG, tagging two people at once, where as with the JG I do it pretty consistently. I know I can't depend on it, but with a bit of luck, it can really help overcome those 2v1 or even greater outnumbered situations. When I play shotgun Im constantly in a rush, and it's thrilling, I find the JG more fun to play with because of this I guess.

Edited July 19, 2018 by Slickmund

[Alani 475]

The issue with the whole shotgun thing is mostly due to how APB works and how all players have one single hitbox.


Balancing shotguns and any semi automatic weapons is pretty hard because you need to deal with the question; IS THIS WEAPON FAIR AGAINST PLAYERS?

You can hit all pellets on a player and then deal enough damage for you to kill them with another hit or a friendly player finish them off. APB's hitboxes are the main cause of a lot of the frustration when it comes to even remotely discussing weapon balances. You can easily claim a weapon does X amount of damage at X range, however, it all amounts to how the weapon performs in the game and how tagging other players hitboxes work.

If they removed the issue of hit registration on the servers, it would give people who balance weapons more to work on, but it would also make some weapons far too powerful. Some weapons if you have the perfect ping, and your opponent has the perfect ping, will be devastating against that player, but less successful against others due to their ping and how hit registration is handled.


I would rather them work on repairing or reworking hit registration and the hitboxes before they start changing weapons in such a way, that will require them to look at the weapons again and again due to server performance and how players use the weapons.

Majority of weapon balance people simply look at statistics, numbers, and other variables to determine what needs to be changed, rather than actually using the weapons in certain scenarios and realizing whether or not the weapon is too over powered, fits its prescribed role, or too weak against other weapons of its role set.

[Keshi 436]

tasz20 stock > csg's > jg's

but hitreg can screw you up big time....

I'm trying to get used to something that i'm gonna call "the new meta"

try the RFP quickswitch strife

Edited July 19, 2018 by Keshi

[Lammashta 12]

What?  No Shredder or Strife?

Edited July 19, 2018 by Lammashta

[Slickmund 58]

Shredder is an automatic shotgun, as I stated before, and again, no offense, I dont want to consider that relevant in this comparison because it is an automatic shotgun which plays differently in terms of playstyle. Personally I find em poor weapons to begin with, as I rarely ever lose to one, especially the ogre which many consider the easiest and therefore best shotgun, though in reality its ease of use is costing it in terms of playstyle, it is easily countered.

Strife I didn't know existed as you see it rarely and can only stumble upon it if you check the pack contents, which I dont because I rarely find them interesting. I would add it to the poll and discussion, but it is used so rarely I doubt itll be of much use here.

@ObviousLesbian What issue with shotguns are you refering to? Inconsistency in terms of damage output? (Which to be fair, should come with the gun beyond certain ranges as it does in many games, reality alike, unless you use special non-buckshot or specialized-buckshot shells.). Shotguns not being able to deal their damage properly because of hitboxes? Or shotguns being able to deal damage too easily because of how the hitboxes work? I'm not trying to mock you, I simply find your thoughts on it posted so far rather vague.

As an ex-programmer myself I know quite a bit about how hitboxes are typically functioning, and yes, in APB you are basically a walking tube, with a nice personal representation inside of it which is you. Which is quite outdated in terms of hitboxes in shooters, but does save a ton of calculations on hit registration, which was probably RTW's only reasonable choice left seen the scale of a game they were creating in a time where computers werent nearly as hefty, and server-sided calculations had to be made sparse due to network stressing. I would love to see a proper hitbox system in APB as well, but often enough you might as well start from scratch if you want to fundamentally change hitboxes in your game, especially if networking already is an issue with its current economic state.

I assume proper hitboxes will never be a thing in APB, it asks too much for a game with this many stress factors involved already. But I could be wrong obviously, I didn't program it so I can only make assumptions really. Either way, this is why, if that was your point, it sadly is not relevant to APB and its future. How shotguns work currently, doesnt differ much from other recoil patterns anyways. Much like you can get that lucky 4 pellet hit on that one hair on someones head whilst he is in cover, you can get that lucky doubletap during a poorly controlled burst, making for insanely fast kills sometimes. I actually enjoy that unpredictable side of APB, makes it feel like you play against people behind computers rather than bots that shoot at you in a scripted way and trashtalk you as theyre actually on twitter or whatnot.

Edited July 19, 2018 by Slickmund

[CrimeCleaner 2]

i feel more comfortable going with CSG, especially when the servers are acting up. If its really really bad though then im going SMG instead.

LO adressed the issue with shotguns lately, so im hoping to see a change soon.

cheers

[Slickmund 58]

4 minutes ago, CrimeCleaner said:

i feel more comfortable going with CSG, especially when the servers are acting up. If its really really bad though then im going SMG instead.

LO adressed the issue with shotguns lately, so im hoping to see a change soon.

cheers

I'm not a big fan of that change, or atleast I think I wont be, I'd rather test it and see it reverted if it doesn't work out than not seeing it happen at all so I'm not completely against it.
But I do suspect it will change shotgun play from "AH HA! That was a solid hit, you are mine sir!", to, "Alright tagged him, just 2 more tags and hes dead".

[Crunk 88]

26 minutes ago, Slickmund said:

I assume proper hitboxes will never be a thing in APB, it asks too much for a game with this many stress factors involved already.

well then can we at least have working street lights again? :C
(probably for a diff topic)

[vsb 6171]

26 minutes ago, Slickmund said:

I assume proper hitboxes will never be a thing in APB

proper hitboxes would ruin the whole point of APBs "customization doesnt affect gameplay" design

[Slickmund 58]

11 minutes ago, BlitzKitty said:

well then can we at least have working street lights again? :C
(probably for a diff topic)

Seen as they couldnt achieve that in GTA 5 either (and rockstar can program quite well) I highly doubt it.

@BXNNXD If they are completely in line with your character, yes. But that would never become a thing, it is rare in really high requirement games as well. A rough stickfigure hitbox would already be a great upgrade from this tube that surrounds us all. Again though, I highly doubt they will ever be able to implement this in APB Edited July 19, 2018 by Slickmund

[CrimeCleaner 2]

10 minutes ago, Slickmund said:

I'm not a big fan of that change, or atleast I think I wont be, I'd rather test it and see it reverted if it doesn't work out than not seeing it happen at all so I'm not completely against it.
But I do suspect it will change shotgun play from "AH HA! That was a solid hit, you are mine sir!", to, "Alright tagged him, just 2 more tags and hes dead".

From what i understood ( now correct me if im wrong he ) is that because of how the servers work, they want to make the shotty more efficient of actually having a real hit instead of being a ghosthost or what have you. cheers

EDIT: Also, lets just see how it goes. We both dont know how its gonan look. Edited July 19, 2018 by CrimeCleaner

[Slickmund 58]

1 minute ago, CrimeCleaner said:

12 minutes ago, Slickmund said:

I'm not a big fan of that change, or atleast I think I wont be, I'd rather test it and see it reverted if it doesn't work out than not seeing it happen at all so I'm not completely against it.
But I do suspect it will change shotgun play from "AH HA! That was a solid hit, you are mine sir!", to, "Alright tagged him, just 2 more tags and hes dead".

From what i understood ( now correct me if im wrong he ) is that because of how the servers work, they want to make the shotty more efficient of actually having a real hit instead of being a ghosthost or what have you. cheers

It will be more consistent on dealing a certain ammount of damage due to the first pellet hitting will deal the highest proportion, that is all. The damage stack of multiple pellets will be reduced however, which will either make 3 shotting consistent, 2 shotting consistent (which would be too easy for a shotgun if you ask me), or make you consistently spazzing around corners to hit those first 4 pellets to kill someone, not even bothering with the rest of the pellets.

[Repented 0]

Sadly, the CSG is better than JG... tighter spread and much longer range... In fact, I think the CSG's range needs a nerf, but that is just my opinion.

[NIKIZ 33]

CSG > JG because it's more consistent and more range.Where is the old JG 2 shot paradise :C
 

8 minutes ago, Repented said:

Sadly, the CSG is better than JG... tighter spread and much longer range... In fact, I think the CSG's range needs a nerf, but that is just my opinion.

I think CSG is fine for what it is now. They just need to give JG the old advantage back over the CSG that it shoots faster then the CSG and a bit less rng. If you where skilled with the JG you could kill people with CSG much faster then they could kill you.

[Luminesca 102]

1 hour ago, NIKIZ said:

They just need to give JG the old advantage back over the CSG that it shoots faster then the CSG and a bit less rng. If you where skilled with the JG you could kill people with CSG much faster then they could kill you.

Why do you want to make f2p gun better then paid gun, logic is absent there. 

[vsb 6171]

8 minutes ago, Luminesca said:

Why do you want to make f2p gun better then paid gun, logic is absent there. 

why do you want to make the p2p gun better than the free gun, logic is absent there

[CookiePuss 5379]

46 minutes ago, Luminesca said:

1 hour ago, NIKIZ said:

They just need to give JG the old advantage back over the CSG that it shoots faster then the CSG and a bit less rng. If you where skilled with the JG you could kill people with CSG much faster then they could kill you.

Why do you want to make f2p gun better then paid gun, logic is absent there. 

Joker store fam... joker store.