Upcoming Weapon Balance changes

[Darkzero3802 606]

9 minutes ago, Kewlin said:

Yes, we're pointing out that threat is a joke, and as such if you can't manage Gold you yourself are basically a joke, at least as far as APB is concerned.

We're not boasting, we're just saying anyone who's not even Gold doesn't know how to APB.

I know your not kew but most ppl in APB do bash anything lower then gold and its part of the toxicity of this community and a big reason new player retention is so low. If ppl would stop it maby we wouldnt have the issues we have.

[Kewlin 692]

9 minutes ago, Nite said:

What if its someone who spends all their playtime using the weak/shitty weapons?

You're Gold, right? And you have an Oblivion listed as your primary in your sig, right?

Sure Dark and Nite, there are some very, very rare exceptions where someone is playing with the worst internet or some shit, but it's pretty rare. I don't hate Silvers or think low of them, but I also don't want them in any way responsible for the direction of APB.

[CookiePuss 5373]

13 minutes ago, Darkzero3802 said:

I know your not kew but most ppl in APB do bash anything lower then gold and its part of the toxicity of this community and a big reason new player retention is so low. If ppl would stop it maby we wouldnt have the issues we have.

I think guys who go snub only to stay in bronze dist are a bigger problem than actual golds tbh. 

[Darkzero3802 606]

1 minute ago, CookiePuss said:

16 minutes ago, Darkzero3802 said:

I know your not kew but most ppl in APB do bash anything lower then gold and its part of the toxicity of this community and a big reason new player retention is so low. If ppl would stop it maby we wouldnt have the issues we have.

I think guys who go snub only to stay in bronze dist are a bigger problem than actual golds tbh. 

Still obsessed with that I see. Well let me refresh ur memory that I care less about threat and try harding in the main dist. Im R255 with 3600 hrs played I have no reason to get the high score, to lvl up or to achieve the highest threat. Ive done all of that already and trying wont make me any higher then R255 since thats the cap. Im only in the main districts to screw around nothing more. When they fix the threat system and increase the lvl cap ill have a reason to try again but untill then ill do as I please and be in FC 99.9% of the time.

[vsb 6170]

front row seats to the shitslinging

carry on folks

[Similarities 226]

5 hours ago, Darkzero3802 said:

Im gold yet I cant aim for shit because my eyes are horrid and my wrist has just gone to hell over the last yr 1/2. Hell its so bad I cant use tap fire weapons anymore like the carbine cause it causes my wrist to lock up.

2

If you're a silver that can aim AND position yourself, but you're not in Gold, you're clearly making mistakes elsewhere, perhaps you're taking the wrong engagements. I have an issue with nerve entrapment in my right arm, I get a lot of pain if I play a low sensitivity, so I play exclusively with my wrist and almost never use my arm except in very extreme cases where I need to turn quickly, I also get severe pain in my palmaris longus and flexor carpi radialis due to past arm injuries related to playing sports as a kid and receiving injuries as a result, these issues make it difficult for me to contract and expand my hand after long periods of use, it causes pain when flicking my wrist around for long periods of time (but I also get pain from playing low sens, so there really isn't a middle ground), it also introduces issues with my thumb being very loose making it hard to grip things. I have hyperthyroidism as well, which can introduce hand and finger tremors, yet still, I haven't got any issues holding Gold threat, which really does say a lot about the threat system in APB.

You can say threat does not matter when it comes to making decisions about game balance and I'd agree with you on that, but to say threat doesn't matter in a lot of situations is entirely untrue, many of them cannot aim nor can they position themselves, it leads to them making mistakes they shouldn't make, your opinion is going to be valued less when you're facing people who are not as good as the top tier. I've also seen silvers get the upper hand on me in terms of positioning, but still die because they just can't hit the broadside of a barn. Edited July 16, 2018 by Similarities

[Nite 261]

7 hours ago, Kewlin said:

You're Gold, right? And you have an Oblivion listed as your primary in your sig, right?
 

The oblivion is actually decent, given the right mods. It won't beat a Dog Ear but most of the time I didn't need it to anyway. Aside from that though I also use gimmick tier/crap tier weapons like the Harbinger, Strife, current!Anubis and others which I don't do nearly as well with.

7 hours ago, Kewlin said:

Sure Dark and Nite, there are some very, very rare exceptions where someone is playing with the worst internet or some shit, but it's pretty rare. I don't hate Silvers or think low of them, but I also don't want them in any way responsible for the direction of APB.

I cannot agree with this stance because there's simply no reason why a lower threat player cannot make informed, sensible observations about the current weapon balance landscape simply because they don't have the best or most consistent aim. Threat is broken in ways sure, but its not like it doesn't function any at all. So there will have to be losers who are silver (or who flip between silver/gold) to go along with the winners who stay gold all the time.
 

[CookiePuss 5373]

I dunno Nite, if you cant use a weapon properly, on what do you base your beliefs for balance?
There was literally a guy who played APB with his feet and a controller... he was gold. 

[Uqe 17]

lol, this community man

[bawseMODE 2]

instead of decreasing hvr damage why not just make so you cant fire the weapon in hipfire, only in ads mode, most ppl that qs do it in hipfire, that way only skilled ones can still do it

[Nejekur 4]

13 hours ago, CookiePuss said:

Literally no idea what you are saying.
All assault rifles have 50m range.
 

But all the others will lose to cqc guns up close 9 times out of 10. The ntec competes with them in their own range, while still being top in mid range. That's the problem.

12 hours ago, Kewlin said:

I mean. . . what you wrote kinda' relies on semantics, so if you say rifle we're all going to assume you mean the guns that are called rifles in-game.

Either way, what you wrote was wrong.

How am I wrong? I talked about real experiences I've had playing with and against it, and how the numbers on paper relate to that. You told me I'm wrong,  with no other context; what a nuanced, well defended position. Edited July 16, 2018 by Nejekur

[Nite 261]

1 hour ago, CookiePuss said:

I dunno Nite, if you cant use a weapon properly, on what do you base your beliefs for balance?

IMO silvers can use weapons properly but they're not consistent enough to maintain the same performance match to match. If you reeallly can't use a weapon properly any at all then that would be bronze level.

As for what to base beliefs on, for me personally its a mix of

• discussing and listening to other players
• observing how some weapons perform vs. others in the same category
• observing how weapons are used against myself
• some critical thinking

No reason any other player (gold or silver) couldn't follow the same steps.

[PonuryZniwiarz 47]

Awesome, pls make something with EOL "Hammer", and Change mod or mod color in DOW "Thumper" becouse its useless. Would be awesome if u add alternative skin To NCR (And rest of legendaries with only basic skin like nano or make it skinable)

[AxeTurboAgresor 268]

I am sure there will be more balance changes in the future. Listed weapons are just the ones that were in great need of change. Cant wait to test strife.

[Kewlin 692]

8 hours ago, Nite said:

The oblivion is actually decent, given the right mods. It won't beat a Dog Ear but most of the time I didn't need it to anyway. Aside from that though I also use gimmick tier/crap tier weapons like the Harbinger, Strife, current!Anubis and others which I don't do nearly as well with.

The Oblivion is without a doubt in my mind the worst gun in the game, that doesn't mean you can't use it and win, but it's the worst gun in the game (or at least competes with the Harbinger.) It simply has virtually no upsides over any other high velocity rifle.

Also, this is a testament to weapon balance and how careful people should be when approaching the subject.

 

8 hours ago, Nite said:

I cannot agree with this stance because there's simply no reason why a lower threat player cannot make informed, sensible observations about the current weapon balance landscape simply because they don't have the best or most consistent aim. Threat is broken in ways sure, but its not like it doesn't function any at all. So there will have to be losers who are silver (or who flip between silver/gold) to go along with the winners who stay gold all the time.
 

Aim is, quite honestly, the least important skill in APB. If you can choose a gun that suits you, position yourself correctly, work with your team moderately well, and thus control the battlefield, at least half the time you won't need good technical skills to win the mission, and seeming as my win ratio and KDR are consistently below 1.0, I can say with certainty that you can easily be Gold winning only half the time.

 

5 hours ago, Nite said:

IMO silvers can use weapons properly but they're not consistent enough to maintain the same performance match to match. If you reeallly can't use a weapon properly any at all then that would be bronze level.

As for what to base beliefs on, for me personally its a mix of

• discussing and listening to other players
• observing how some weapons perform vs. others in the same category
• observing how weapons are used against myself
• some critical thinking

No reason any other player (gold or silver) couldn't follow the same steps.

As I said before, you only need to be decent-ish half the time to maintain Gold, that doesn't exactly qualify as consistent. Silvers are people who don't realize they need to be swapping shoulders constantly, don't know when and where they drive a car to go under the rader, when to jump and when not to jump to see over obstacles, don't know the effective ranges of every gun, don't know the weakest ranges of every gun, don't know (approximately) the TTK or spread of every gun, don't know that vehicles blow up bigger vertically than horizontally, think that reskins have different recoil patterns, don't understand curve mechanics and how to use them to your favor, etc., and they don't know these almost by definition because these small things are what make you play APB well, not aim.

It's knowing when you're safe to take a shot from a Scout, or what range an AAEPD won't hurt you that makes you Gold from my experience, not being good at point and click adventures.


If someone doesn't know the deep intricacies of APB, I don't want them near balance. We're talking about a community here where I can argue with someone for hours that it's not because the PMG is OP that they died climbing up a ladder and they won't believe me. Edited July 16, 2018 by Kewlin
Minor typo

[Darkzero3802 606]

19 hours ago, Kewlin said:

You're Gold, right? And you have an Oblivion listed as your primary in your sig, right?

Sure Dark and Nite, there are some very, very rare exceptions where someone is playing with the worst internet or some shit, but it's pretty rare. I don't hate Silvers or think low of them, but I also don't want them in any way responsible for the direction of APB.

The direction of APB should be that of the community as a whole not a select few gold threats on their thrones.

[CookiePuss 5373]

9 minutes ago, Darkzero3802 said:

19 hours ago, Kewlin said:

You're Gold, right? And you have an Oblivion listed as your primary in your sig, right?

Sure Dark and Nite, there are some very, very rare exceptions where someone is playing with the worst internet or some shit, but it's pretty rare. I don't hate Silvers or think low of them, but I also don't want them in any way responsible for the direction of APB.

The direction of APB should be that of the community as a whole not a select few gold threats on their thrones.

Direction of APB should be whats best for APB.
Not the community.
Christ theres like 50 of us here ffs. Edited July 16, 2018 by CookiePuss

[Kewlin 692]

2 minutes ago, CookiePuss said:

Direction of APB should be whats best for APB.
Not the community.
Christ theres like 50 of us here ffs.

^^^This^^^

APB comes first, the community second, and as it is the majority of APB's community has very poor knowledge of APB.

[Darkzero3802 606]

6 minutes ago, CookiePuss said:

Direction of APB should be whats best for APB.
Not the community.
Christ theres like 50 of us here ffs.

Whats best for APB might not draw a crowd, theres a balancing act that needs to be done. Do whats best for the game yet make the community happy so ppl will spend money and more ppl will play. If ppl dont spend $$ and support the game the games guna close no matter what is done right.

3 minutes ago, Kewlin said:

^^^This^^^

APB comes first, the community second, and as it is the majority of APB's community has very poor knowledge of APB.

As I said above.

[Desumanu 32]

Hmmm interesting.... but what about buffing the yukon ? its useless now ....
(that's a joke)

[Kewlin 692]

58 minutes ago, Darkzero3802 said:

Whats best for APB might not draw a crowd, theres a balancing act that needs to be done. Do whats best for the game yet make the community happy so ppl will spend money and more ppl will play. If ppl dont spend $$ and support the game the games guna close no matter what is done right.

As I said above.

That's prioritizing short-term rewards over the longterm health of a game, that's how you make a game die.

If a player's going to leave because the game's properly balanced they're not a players you can rely on, i.e. they aren't one of the ones spending the most money and they aren't going to stay long anyways.

[Darkzero3802 606]

Just now, Kewlin said:

That's prioritizing short-term rewards over the longterm health of a game, that's how you make a game die.

If a player's going to leave because the game's properly balanced they're not a players you can rely on, i.e. they aren't one of the ones spending the most money and they aren't going to stay long anyways.

If its balanced properly it will go long term, if not it will die out like Firefall did. LO just needs to figure out that balance and walk the line perfectly.

[CookiePuss 5373]

33 minutes ago, Nysiz said:

Hmmm interesting.... but what about buffing the yukon ? its useless now ....
(that's a joke)

ngl... Yukon is trash tier.

[notHunky 32]

On 7/6/2018 at 4:39 PM, MattScott said:

Hi everyone,

 

In the spirit of transparency, here are the changes we are implementing for weapon balance in the coming couple weeks. The development has all been done, we are just testing internally to make sure things work as intended.

To start we have two general changes to the Sniper and Shotgun categories:

 

1) Linking accuracy to damage on the HVR 762

Reducing the damage of the HVR 762 when it's not perfectly accurate allows us to reduce the ability to fire it at close range / snap shot and still be effective.

 

Sniper Rifles, particularly the HVRs, are particularly hard to balance because they are currently effective at point blank range and also devastating at a distance. G1 tried a few rough balance measures in the past with initial inaccuracy and movement cooldown, but it’s still quite possible to use the HVR in CQC. We feel this change will preserve the HVR 762's place in our matrix of weapons, but make it less desirable outside of actually sniping.

 

2) Shotgun Damage Pellet Damage

We're adjusting how shotguns do damage, to allow for more damage for partial hits (the first pellets to hit a single target do more damage than the last ones). This allows them to be more forgiving without buffing their overall damage.

 

Again, Shotguns are hard to balance. Currently we feel they are powerful but very inconsistent, and some of this is because how our servers perform at higher latency.

 

Now for the smaller tweaks to specific weapons:

 

1) AR-97 'Misery' (Apoc Famine)

Improve damage to give it some overkill, and improve the tap fire ability.

 

2) COBR-A

Remove the accuracy curve and improve accuracy recovery rates.

 

3) ISSR-a

Low recovery time for accuracy loss, so you can wait less time after taking a shot to fire again.

 

4) SWARM

Reduce horizontal recoil amount. We're also investigating increasing the time it takes to recoil to slightly higher than the recoil time, making the recoil smoother.

 

5) SBSR (Rifle)

We want to give this weapon a unique recoil pattern that's significantly less harsh than the sniper variant.

 

6) H-9 'Curse'

We want to give this weapon a new recoil pattern that has heavily reduced horizontal recoil.

 

7) S-247 'Oblivion'

Attempt to make the weapon a lot snappier when using it as a fire and reposition weapon. This would heavily improve snap fire by reducing the time it takes to gain accuracy after moving, and allowing you to switch during re-fire timer.

 

8) NCR

New crosshair (from existing asset). Removing the accuracy recovery curve that the HVR has.

 

Thanks,

Matt

Edited: added clarity on weapon names mentioned in comments.

Wow seriously, this is like everything I've been wanting for a while. I'd really like to see how the Shredder, Anubis, Swarm, and COBRA perform after these changes. I may have missed it, but is there any estimation as to when you think the changes will be implemented? Edited July 17, 2018 by notHunky

[foolish ninja 59]

nerf ntec in close range
fix yukon
nerf aaepd
nerf hvr
slighty buff shotgun dmg
fix strife fire rate

my personal list