STAR LCR

[Unclean 45]

4 minutes ago, Sidewayz24 said:

False, unless you want to compare an IR3 weapon to an unmodded weapon. 77m is the range before the damage drops to 6 shots, but heres the key.

 

The LCR can actually drop off enough to turn into a 9 shot kill after 91m, where the Obeya does not ever drop off within the 100m range of the game into a 9 shot kill. It also has 3/4 the TTK compared to the LCR while remaining plenty accurate. Also the more shots you add to the LCR, the exponentially worse the TTK compares meaning a single missed shot is vastly worse to an LCR than an Obeya.

 

 

Also how is a gun that kills in 1.2 seconds at its very best an all rounder.... The STAR 556 (NOT LCR) is an amazing all around weapon, the LCR, is not. Its a long range weapon, that is inferior to every option available. Even the DMR is vastly better than it.

oh yeah, it is 77m, but at that distance, you aren't going to be reaching anywhere near your full ttk with the obeya whereas you would with the LCR because of bloom recovery and delay. Same with just about every other long range weapon. HVR, DMR, Obeya, OBIR, NCR, Oblivion, ISSR, SBRS.. none of them reach full TTK without crazy RNG, but LCR can come out in a fight because it hold it's full ttk and ease of use at 80m and under. The only thing that came close to it for ease of use was the old ISSR.

 

 

Evenly high skill gap players can appreciate ease of use and fully recovering bloom per shot on full auto, and that makes the weapon worth it. 

[Danimal 36]

Put it back in the next joker box Kappa.

[Sidewayz24 15]

2 hours ago, Unclean said:

oh yeah, it is 77m, but at that distance, you aren't going to be reaching anywhere near your full ttk with the obeya whereas you would with the LCR because of bloom recovery and delay. Same with just about every other long range weapon. HVR, DMR, Obeya, OBIR, NCR, Oblivion, ISSR, SBRS.. none of them reach full TTK without crazy RNG, but LCR can come out in a fight because it hold it's full ttk and ease of use at 80m and under. The only thing that came close to it for ease of use was the old ISSR.

 

 

Evenly high skill gap players can appreciate ease of use and fully recovering bloom per shot on full auto, and that makes the weapon worth it. 

I've never had issues using the obeya and landing near the TTK at long ranges. And again, one missed shot and that TTK becomes muuuuch longer. The obeya is also like 5 damage or something crazy like that from being a 4 shot kill. Gives it better support ability. Its an incredibly powerful and easy to handle weapon at range. Where the LCR is just easy to handle. And meh in terms of power.

Edited July 6, 2018 by Sidewayz24

[Onadan 14]

Well, when talking about ease of use it's just down to preferences.
I didn't know about the LCR until recently, and I must say I really like it. I'd buy it in a heartbeat, because 700 joker tickets per week is kinda rough... (however I'd prefer an R&D version)

I'm really crappy with an Obeya yet have no trouble with an OBIR. What the OBIR doesn't have is LCR's versatility. Sure it's not as good as X weapon in X specific case, but it's useful in a lot of situations, and I've had the most fun in a long while with it.
If you think the LCR is so bad, what about the EOL series then, I own all three, and they're crap compared to the OPGL.
I get it, they're joker box weapons and not dirrect buy. Then how about the Colby RSA hunter? that's what I'd call a terrible weapon. I still have fun using it from time to time.
Ok, you're going to tell me "but that's a secondary". Fine, let's talk about the worst primary weapon on the armas market right now (at least in my opinion):
The SBSR 'Coroner', are you going to pretend that it's much better than the LCR?? how would you justify picking the SBSR over the LCR? worse bloom, worse recoil, worse TTK and the walking speed of a SR, much less damage per magazine than the LCR and ridiculous hard damage. And none of the LCR's versatility.

The LCR is absolutely viable, the same can hardly be said about the SBSR, yet the LCR has been axed while the SBSR still stands.
I don't want to be forced to farm joker tickets when I could just get an account lifetime LCR.

Also the LCR is a counterpart of the scoped NTEC-5, isn't it? so why remove it and make it so one-sided?
Besides, on a sidenote, what is worse: a premium weapon that is slightly better than the rest, or a premium weapon that is slightly worse than the rest?
Of course, a perfectly balanced weapon would be ideal, but we live in reality, not in an ideal. I'd pick the slightly worse down to preferences weapon over something that could be described as P2W by slightly salty players.

Sure, some people might have buyer's remorse and ask for a refund... but there'll always dumb people, and that's hardly the LCR's fault, especially when there's a joker ticket version to try it out...

@MattScott I'll give you money, so sell the damn LCR. Or do you hate money and capitalism?

[BlatMan 711]

On 7/6/2018 at 1:39 PM, Unclean said:

oh yeah, it is 77m, but at that distance, you aren't going to be reaching anywhere near your full ttk with the obeya whereas you would with the LCR because of bloom recovery and delay. Same with just about every other long range weapon. HVR, DMR, Obeya, OBIR, NCR, Oblivion, ISSR, SBRS.. none of them reach full TTK without crazy RNG, but LCR can come out in a fight because it hold it's full ttk and ease of use at 80m and under. The only thing that came close to it for ease of use was the old ISSR.

 

 

Evenly high skill gap players can appreciate ease of use and fully recovering bloom per shot on full auto, and that makes the weapon worth it. 

https://db.apbvault.net/items/Weapon_Rifle_Obeya/
https://db.apbvault.net/items/Weapon_AssaultRifle_STAR-LCR_PR3_Armas/

LCR TTK: 1.2s
CR762 TTK: 0.84s

The CR762 takes ~0.294s to recover fully from bloom. (0.44/2.27 + 0.1). This means if timed right it will maintain 100% base accuracy and kill slightly faster than the LCR minimum ttk. The CR762 kills with 5 shots slightly over 70M (77M with IR3). It also only needs 7 shots at 81M (88M IR3). If the player is close enough to not require 100% base accuracy, you can then fire the CR762 slightly faster. I don't remember the exact hitbox size of players or I could calculate this.

The LCR is designed for noobs. It's easy to control but nowhere close to efficient.

[Knite 158]

8 hours ago, MrsHappyPenguin said:

The LCR is designed for noobs. It's easy to control but nowhere close to efficient.

The LCR was introduced because it's literally how the STAR was in RTW, and players wanted the RTW STAR back (including myself).

There is a reason G1 changed the STAR into the 556 variant for Reloaded, however, and that's because the LCR is not as versatile as the N-TEC.

That said, Old Glory is amazing and anyone who says otherwise is wrong.

[Onadan 14]

On 8/1/2018 at 3:46 PM, MrsHappyPenguin said:

The LCR is designed for noobs. It's easy to control but nowhere close to efficient.

Nice meme you've got there, but you're moving the post goals.
The main criticism against the reintroduction of the LCR was that it was a completely unviable trash weapon, not that it was user friendly.
He gave several good examples, and you only adressed one of them.

Sure, you can hide behind your numbers: in a perfect world with no lag, where everyone hits every shot and only 1v1 to the death at the exact same time, with no terrain or positioning nor movement to take into consideration, they might be law. Except it's mostly abstract bullshoot at best.

I guess, what I meant to ask is: what is your point? In a thread about giving customers the option to get the LCR, what is the point you are trying to make? That obeya is better when looking at raw numbers? Sure.
So what? remove every weapon that is inferior to obeya? Because that sounds really stupid.
So I ask: What is your point?

Also, from a purely semantic point of view "easy to control" is exactly what "efficient" means, so I'd ask of you to think before you write.

[DouglasFalcon 125]

I mean if the OTW IR3 makes it to Live, LCR PR2 is gonna be really bad, even worse than now.

Besides, I think everybody should be allowed to buy and use whatever weapon they want, regardless of how they perform in the current metagame. There are a lot of low tier heroes around playing bad weapons and still getting good results with them tbh

[Onadan 14]

30 minutes ago, DouglasFalcon said:

I mean if the OTW IR3 makes it to Live, LCR PR2 is gonna be really bad, even worse than now.

Indeed. It's already sub-par due to having only two mods you can't change; thus my request for a R&D 3 version, which is the norm. (of course those tend to have a higher cost than the modded version)

Though I doubt the IR3 will stay the way it is, although if it does it'll be a significant boost to the OBIR, relatively.

[LazyLizard 41]

Just buy a 3 slot star and add shit to it.

[Chinook 144]

On 8/2/2018 at 1:27 AM, Knite said:

The LCR was introduced because it's literally how the STAR was in RTW, and players wanted the RTW STAR back (including myself).

There is a reason G1 changed the STAR into the 556 variant for Reloaded, however, and that's because the LCR is not as versatile as the N-TEC.

That said, Old Glory is amazing and anyone who says otherwise is wrong.

Sometimes I wonder why they didn't change the default weapon from STAR to NTEC when they changed the default secondary from SNR to FBW.

Beyond that, besides making a mental notion that LCR doesn't have enough accuracy to fully live up to it's potential at extreme ranges, I have nothing to say. Edited August 4, 2018 by Chinook

[vsb 6171]

3 hours ago, Chinook said:

Sometimes I wonder why they didn't change the default weapon from STAR to NTEC when they changed the default secondary from SNR to FBW.

despite how "easy" the ntec is, a new player can and will do far (heh) better with the star due to its more forgiving nature and easier ease of use

[Narcisse 11]

On 7/4/2018 at 4:39 AM, Mitne said:

I don't know why you want it? In all cases modern STAR wins with STAR LCR. And yes, I did test.

Not at longer range...nope nope

5 hours ago, Chinook said:

Sometimes I wonder why they didn't change the default weapon from STAR to NTEC when they changed the default secondary from SNR to FBW.

Beyond that, besides making a mental notion that LCR doesn't have enough accuracy to fully live up to it's potential at extreme ranges, I have nothing to say.

Im pretty damn sure my LCR PR2 is quite the lazer beam at long range

[vsb 6171]

1 hour ago, Narcisse said:

Not at longer range...nope nope Im pretty damn sure my LCR PR2 is quite the lazer beam at long range

the lcr suffers from really annoying rng in my experience

just another reason the obeya out performs it 9/10 times

[BlatMan 711]

2 hours ago, BXNNXD said:

the lcr suffers from really annoying rng in my experience

just another reason the obeya out performs it 9/10 times

The LCR is slightly more accurate than the the Obeya though. The low rate of fire on the LCR is what makes it less forgiving. 1 missed shot adds a ton to the TTK while the Obeya isn't that big of a deal. 1 missed shot is still a lower ttk than the LCR, and 2 missed shots is also faster to kill if you have CJ3 on the Obeya. Edited August 5, 2018 by MrsHappyPenguin

[Onadan 14]

Since you people are bent on comparing it with the obeya CR762...
The LCR has 15 more metres before damage dropoff kicks in. (60 vs 75)
It also has better accuracy, as mentioned before. Combined with the slower fire rate, which means much less reticle bloom.  Now I don't know how some of you equate a smaller reticle with RNG...
It also has more damage per magazine

What does all of this mean? well let me spell it out for you: it's a differtent weapon.
One that excels in suppressive fire, but is also more versatile than a sniper rifle.
Sure, it sucks against an obeya if you give them favourable conditions, but you're not supposed to do that: you're supposed to use make good use of those specs to your advantages.
If you think that it's easier said than done, then this weapon is not for you, simple.

Sure, it doesn't have amazing TTK to boast about but neither does the OBIR, or other weapons at the 1.2s mark or above. That's because they have something to make up for it, and wether you can make good use of that is up to you, the player. It's an informed choice to make, you don't want to, it's fine.
All I'm asking is to be given the option to make that choice. An option that used to be there, so I know I'm not asking for the moon either.

I'm still waiting for someone to come up with a weapon that compares to the LCR in term of damage potential per magazine, range, accuracy, full auto, with no movement impediment:
N-ISSR-B and SBSR are both worse weapons, yet both are still available on the armas market, while the LCR is not.

Which is the whole freaking point of the thread.

Edited August 6, 2018 by Onadan
added a sentence for clarity purposes.

[Kempington 295]

Sorry, just to point something out. The ISSR-B is definitely not worse than the LCR. More hard damage, better initial accuracy, more range, better damage per shot, can be hipfired in CQC with moderate success. Marksmanship mode movement speed is worse, but it really doesn't matter.

The LCR fulfills a role that no-one really needs. High mobility at range isn't really a benefit, since it's arguably easier to track fast moving targets at that range anyway.

The LCR's inherent inaccuracy causes it to whiff plenty of shots at 60m, causing it to be unreliable. There's not much you can do to prevent that from happening, either.

ALSO, if you compare the accuracy of the LCR with HS3 vs. the CR762 with HS3, the CR762 is more accurate in marksmanship mode, by at least 3cm. I don't know how you got the whole "LCR is more accurate" idea from, if you aren't comparing them appropriately.

Edited August 6, 2018 by Kempington
More info.

[Puffdragon 131]

I will give my opinion even though nobody asked for it. LCR is a nice gun which can keep up with snipers. Dats all.

[BlatMan 711]

1 hour ago, Kempington said:

Sorry, just to point something out. The ISSR-B is definitely not worse than the LCR. More hard damage, better initial accuracy, more range, better damage per shot, can be hipfired in CQC with moderate success. Marksmanship mode movement speed is worse, but it really doesn't matter.

The LCR fulfills a role that no-one really needs. High mobility at range isn't really a benefit, since it's arguably easier to track fast moving targets at that range anyway.

The LCR's inherent inaccuracy causes it to whiff plenty of shots at 60m, causing it to be unreliable. There's not much you can do to prevent that from happening, either.

ALSO, if you compare the accuracy of the LCR with HS3 vs. the CR762 with HS3, the CR762 is more accurate in marksmanship mode, by at least 3cm. I don't know how you got the whole "LCR is more accurate" idea from, if you aren't comparing them appropriately.

I think I mixed up the LCR's accuracy with another weapon. Looking through the DB it's definitely less accurate while in MM.

On Innova, the old Russian version, the LCR was 4 shots to kill. I wonder how that would work out on G1's servers?

[Onadan 14]

8 hours ago, Kempington said:

More hard damage,

Which is almost entirely irrelevant 99.5% of the time. That just makes you seem to be desperate to be right.

8 hours ago, Kempington said:

better initial accuracy, better damage per shot

Higher bloom, slower bloom recovery, slower fire rate, slower TTK. All of which you conveniently left out.

8 hours ago, Kempington said:

 more range

Highly debatable, since the dropoff starts 15m earlier. Actually 22m earlier with a sniper silencer, and I don't think a loud version exists. So it would still have a worse TTK even at longer distances. Of course, that's purely theorical but my point was that this was debatable, not wrong per se.

8 hours ago, Kempington said:

 can be hipfired in CQC with moderate success

So can the LCR, and in either case, that's what the secondary is for anyway, so hardly relevant.

8 hours ago, Kempington said:

Marksmanship mode movement speed is worse, but it really doesn't matter.
The LCR fulfills a role that no-one really needs.

That's just opinions, and I'd appreciate you not deciding who needs what, thank you very much.

8 hours ago, Kempington said:

the CR762 is more accurate in marksmanship mode, by at least 3cm. I don't know how you got the whole "LCR is more accurate" idea from, if you aren't comparing them appropriately. 

Because I forgot to take the marskman modifier into account, an error on my part as you seem to have noticed (otherwise you wouldn't specify). So I don't take it quite well when you lie about not knowing where I got the wrong impression.
Yes, I got it wrong, no need to be petty about it.

9 hours ago, Kempington said:

The LCR's inherent inaccuracy causes it to whiff plenty of shots at 60m, causing it to be unreliable. There's not much you can do to prevent that from happening, either.

That statement is vague at best, and I don't even feel the need to argue it.

I rest my case either way. You can think the ISSR-B is better than the LCR all you like; in the end it's a matter of prefecences.
Just don't go around thinking that your opinion is the definite truth.

[vsb 6171]

2 minutes ago, Onadan said:

Which is almost entirely irrelevant 99.5% of the time. That just makes you seem to be desperate to be right.

hard damage is a pretty important part of gameplay, even leaving out all the carplay i see in missions just having the ability to take out radar tower/carspawners without wasting grenades is a pretty decent advantage
 

4 minutes ago, Onadan said:

Higher bloom, slower bloom recovery, slower fire rate, slower TTK. All of which you conveniently left out.

the lcr and the issrb have the same rof iirc, but the issrb takes 1 less shot to kill for a faster ttk - you're more likely to hit min ttk on lcr since its automatic but at the cost of overall time
 

7 minutes ago, Onadan said:

Highly debatable, since the dropoff starts 15m earlier. Actually 22m earlier with a sniper silencer, and I don't think a loud version exists. So it would still have a worse TTK even at longer distances. Of course, that's purely theorical but my point was that this was debatable, not wrong per se.

going off memory the lcr dropoff starts at 82m while the issrb starts at 83m due to sniper silencer


the issrb is better than the lcr because it can do pretty much everything; it has the range of a sniper with a ttk that allows it to still be useful in cqc, better hard damage output than a dmr av (below 88m), full mobility, and i think its currently the most accurate gun to jumpshoot with

imo

[Kempington 295]

Alright. I was a bit brash at first, apologies.

Let's do some simple maths here.

We know for a fact that the crosshair represents the accuracy of any weapon 10m away from you. That cone will be everywhere a shot can go. It's completely RNG (as much as a computer can be random).

Let's take the LCR. For this example, I'm using the 'Old Glory'. No different from the rest, since they all sport HS3. You can check the stats for it here.

Accuracy Radius at 10m = 13cm
Marksmanship Modifier = 0.48

13*0.48 = 6.24cm @ 10m range in marksmanship mode.

That's pretty accurate so far. Let's extrapolate this to 60m. This is effectively (assuming I'm not completely moronic with maths...) multiplying this number by 6.

6.24*6 = 37.44cm RADIUS (Double it for the Diameter)
Doesn't sound too shabby right? Well...


Let's take the N-TEC. It SHOULD be more inaccurate with HS3.... right? I mean it's an assault rifle, not a marksmanship rifle. Here are the stats for the gun. (For this example, I'm also putting HS3 in this weapon).

Accuracy Radius at 10m = 24cm
Marksmanship Modifier = 0.35 (0.2 with HS3)

24*0.2 = 4.8cm radius @ 10m

Wait what? The N-TEC is more accurate? Yikes...

4.8*6 = 28.8cm RADIUS

So, the N-TEC is already more accurate than the LCR....

BUT LET'S CONTINUE.

So, before we go any further, I urge you to click here to read the actual stats of the ISSR-B.

We already know it's more accurate, but the point to question was the Time to Kill and... wait what's this? 0.9s time to kill? Compared to the LCR's 1.2 (1.14 on old glory)?
Well hold on, it can't be that bad right? Surely their hipfire accuracy is relatively similar..

LCR

Run Modifier = 6.5 (8 with HS3)

13*8 = 104cm RADIUS @ 10m

ISSR-B

Run Modifier = 1.1 (2.6 with HS3)

38*2.6 = 98.8cm RADIUS @ 10m

(On a side note, you don't even need to use HS3 on the ISSR-B, its accuracy is already loads better. I'm not going to put that here, just go look at the stats.

So yes, the ISSR-B is more accurate at range, more accurate hipfiring, has a faster TTK, does more damage, both to vehicles and players etc.




The only thing I can't really discuss is how often the LCR will whiff at 60m away. But considering that it has a 74.88cm diameter crosshair at 60m, the only thing we need to know is the diameter of the player's hitbox. I have a feeling it might be around 60cm or fewer, but I don't know this. Simply put, you're more likely to land shots @60m with an N-TEC than you are the LCR.

The LCR is outclassed. It needs some work done to it to be viable. Sorry man.
 

[Puffdragon 131]

56 minutes ago, Kempington said:

Alright. I was a bit brash at first, apologies.

Let's do some simple maths here.

We know for a fact that the crosshair represents the accuracy of any weapon 10m away from you. That cone will be everywhere a shot can go. It's completely RNG (as much as a computer can be random).

Let's take the LCR. For this example, I'm using the 'Old Glory'. No different from the rest, since they all sport HS3. You can check the stats for it here.

Accuracy Radius at 10m = 13cm
Marksmanship Modifier = 0.48

13*0.48 = 6.24cm @ 10m range in marksmanship mode.

That's pretty accurate so far. Let's extrapolate this to 60m. This is effectively (assuming I'm not completely moronic with maths...) multiplying this number by 6.

6.24*6 = 37.44cm RADIUS (Double it for the Diameter)
Doesn't sound too shabby right? Well...


Let's take the N-TEC. It SHOULD be more inaccurate with HS3.... right? I mean it's an assault rifle, not a marksmanship rifle. Here are the stats for the gun. (For this example, I'm also putting HS3 in this weapon).

Accuracy Radius at 10m = 24cm
Marksmanship Modifier = 0.35 (0.2 with HS3)

24*0.2 = 4.8cm radius @ 10m

Wait what? The N-TEC is more accurate? Yikes...

4.8*6 = 28.8cm RADIUS

So, the N-TEC is already more accurate than the LCR....

BUT LET'S CONTINUE.

So, before we go any further, I urge you to click here to read the actual stats of the ISSR-B.

We already know it's more accurate, but the point to question was the Time to Kill and... wait what's this? 0.9s time to kill? Compared to the LCR's 1.2 (1.14 on old glory)?
Well hold on, it can't be that bad right? Surely their hipfire accuracy is relatively similar..

LCR

Run Modifier = 6.5 (8 with HS3)

13*8 = 104cm RADIUS @ 10m

ISSR-B

Run Modifier = 1.1 (2.6 with HS3)

38*2.6 = 98.8cm RADIUS @ 10m

(On a side note, you don't even need to use HS3 on the ISSR-B, its accuracy is already loads better. I'm not going to put that here, just go look at the stats.

So yes, the ISSR-B is more accurate at range, more accurate hipfiring, has a faster TTK, does more damage, both to vehicles and players etc.




The only thing I can't really discuss is how often the LCR will whiff at 60m away. But considering that it has a 74.88cm diameter crosshair at 60m, the only thing we need to know is the diameter of the player's hitbox. I have a feeling it might be around 60cm or fewer, but I don't know this. Simply put, you're more likely to land shots @60m with an N-TEC than you are the LCR.

The LCR is outclassed. It needs some work done to it to be viable. Sorry man.
 

Woah, slow down there cowboy. Point loud end at bad guy, boom boom. If it works good, it works good.

[Beastie 177]

2 hours ago, Kempington said:

The only thing I can't really discuss is how often the LCR will whiff at 60m away. But considering that it has a 74.88cm diameter crosshair at 60m, the only thing we need to know is the diameter of the player's hitbox. I have a feeling it might be around 60cm or fewer, but I don't know this. Simply put, you're more likely to land shots @60m with an N-TEC than you are the LCR.

 

FYI the collision diameter is 68cm, or essentially 83 when leaning and face on to the shooter.
If it helps further calculations, the height is 91 standing, 60 crouching and moving (standing on the balls of your feet), and 53 crouching and stationary.

[vsb 6171]

1 minute ago, LO_Beastie said:

FYI the collision diameter is 68cm, or essentially 83 when leaning and face on to the shooter.
If it helps further calculations, the height is 91 standing, 60 crouching and moving (standing on the balls of your feet), and 53 crouching and stationary.

awesome