Future of ARMAS and the Game

[Jilleroo 349]

Hi, my name is Jilleroo and I've been playing a long time with Jackeroo.

Thread went no where.

 

Hoped Matt, Ritual, etc. would offer their thoughts on this since it's been sitting in Social for 2 months.

Once again tho, they don't give a roasted dung beetle what we talk about or how many bug reports we make to help.

 

 

They don't appreciate (or at the very least even acknowledge) our input. Not like the game is swarming with content and events either, so the fact of the matter is: they just don't care.

Edited July 25, 2023 by Jilleroo
Little Orbit doesn't care about this game, not really! x.x

[nndrei 129]

no

[Jilleroo 349]

22 minutes ago, nndrei said:

no

I know it's a lot, but I had to cause I met so many cool people on this game and I feel bad for it, lmao.

[nndrei 129]

1 hour ago, EvaPooh said:

I know it's a lot, but I had to cause I met so many cool people on this game and I feel bad for it, lmao.

And how would the LO team make money?
The LO team needs a source of money too don't you think?

And just cosmetics is not enough to maintain the servers.
Realistically nowadays I don't even know how LO make enough money from APB.

 

I think variety is the solution. If I don't want to farm JT and spend my money on ARMAS, that's my problem.

But APB is not a p2w as many say since you have absolutely any weapon in the JT store.
 

[MrLek 35]

3 hours ago, nndrei said:

But APB is not a p2w as many say since you have absolutely any weapon in the JT store.

Fact.
They probably didn't do the tutorial properly and didn't understand what APB wants to offer, so they started criticizing without any basis.
There's the result of a badly done tutorial. If you look at these criticisms, most have in common a critique of the new player experience.
In my opinion, the APB tutorial has to be immersive and interactive. 
The game is very dense and has a lot of information, it can't be a tutorial with everything written as it is today.

[TheMessiah 430]

12 hours ago, EvaPooh said:

1. Progression

• Cut the standing required per rank for all levels in half.

dats fine maybe too drastic but fine

12 hours ago, EvaPooh said:

2. Matchmaking

• Threat levels hidden until the match is concluded.

threat must be hidden all the time(the message about changin threat after match must be also removed)just blue rank for enf and red for crims

12 hours ago, EvaPooh said:

3. Purchases

• Guns should be removed from ARMAS, weapon skins are fine.
• ARMAS should be only a cosmetic shop.

too late for dat many players already spend real money for weapons but why not in future to be added only cosmetics

12 hours ago, EvaPooh said:

4. Interface

• Mailbox should be cleaned up, with filters and a search function added (the option to delete mail + the attachment).

+1 without dat last part

Edited June 13, 2023 by TheMessiah

[PingOVER9000 189]

I am not telling is totally bad the suggestions explained.. but overall I will say no

 

- First you and reviews claim  like the game is a P2W but actually it's not, actually it's the reverse, you are sort of punished if you make purchase or support this game, sigh.

one of the reasons I am little mad it's because over 80% of the weapons in armas are still bloody bad balanced after ages, also one careful with checking stats and performance of the weapon isnt esent from this wrath, because if the weapon perform well after some months/ weeks it may happen it got totally wrecked and nerfed making it not worth it using anymore... and you basically from one day to another you have the inventory full of weapons which at best you use some which you can count the hand finger of your left hand.... ah ofc no reimbursament or change policy complete the circle.

 

1. Progression

Progression is boring, not because of the system, the matter is there isnt no LORE, no animations, no explanation or something, just some boring random emails wtf... you cant feel the ambientation or you are in a city where there is a war between Criminals and enforcers and the story already it's full of plotholes (for example where is a hypotetical army or central governament in this matter, why the old mayor got killed, what happened to the major daugheter?  )... the only stupid animation you see it's the trailer you can skip every time you launch the game.. and that's all.. from RANK 0 TO RANK 200+ the only difference it's about unlocking some staff, mods,weapons... you can exploit between armas or other petty trick getting almost everything early, include explosive weapon at very low level already since ages

12 hours ago, EvaPooh said:

All basic weapons unlocked permanently once the player has finished Tier 0 with additional modular slots earned every couple of tiers above:

I remind you, You have a free permanent  weapon to choose when you make new character... you or others skip pinguins have just to make 5 min of tutorial 

 

 

2. Matchmaking

 

it's crap, totally agree with you about the situation and we are all agree with this... but if I was you with still a simp patience for this game, before telling something I will just wait and see what they have planned in the roadmap 2023, on the paper seems reasonable.. on the paper ofc...

Anyway yes need also more modality... I dont dislke a possible 1 vs 1 but it has to be and can only be who make more kills in a certain scheduled time... 

 

The game seems more a battle between two different criminal gangs in a city, I dont see enough difference between enfo or crims at the end.. mission are same for both.

 

Enforcers are pseudo cops... there shall be missions where they should use LTL weapons with stats in pair with Lethal weapons... devs can make missions where enforcers can win or having a different route for win missions making worth  only making arrests. Maybe with a more balanced matchup for LTL with more balanced LTL  and getting penalized if they kill the crims... I mean there are a lot of ways for updating and having different in game... making some missions or part of mission based on that, it's a idea never developed unfortunately

 

We have clans or guilds whatever you call... it's a shame and sin that it's a tool until now didnt get its proper development despite the request of the community... around it, it may have been possible create a new matchmaking modality fighting in sort of fightclubs, also for non-clans player they may join so adding the figure of the random mercenary for smallers clans or with lower numbers at that moment, a reward system composed of JT or other unique staff.. anyway whatever such a waste..

 

12 hours ago, EvaPooh said:

4. Interface

5.Armas

You have reason and good suggestions.. but from I understood devs cannot do a lot in this matter about UI and Armas and how the weapons are balanced overall,  it's seems a mess they like gaining profit,,,

Edited June 13, 2023 by PingOVER9000

[Jilleroo 349]

21 hours ago, nndrei said:

And how would the LO team make money? The LO team needs a source of money too don't you think?

 

I think variety is the solution. If I don't want to farm JT and spend my money on ARMAS, that's my problem.

But APB is not a p2w as many say since you have absolutely any weapon in the JT store.

Cosmetics still sell fine, just speaking to my APB friends they still buy clothing/vehicle packs (as do I occasionally).

 

New cars, kits, weapon skins, etc. would be more than enough, me thinks.

And it wouldn't harm APB's fair-play integrity and muddy the waters between 'what is P2W' and the "so much grinding, it might as well be".

 

17 hours ago, TheMessiah said:

too late for dat many players already spend real money for weapons but why not in future to be added only cosmetics

I already spent real money to buy the CSG, but now it's available for tickets.

 

It's the same premise friend, you're just looking at it from the wrong angle.

 

17 hours ago, PingOVER9000 said:

First you and reviews claim  like the game is a P2W but actually it's not, actually it's the reverse, you are sort of punished if you make purchase or support this game, sigh.

 

1. Progression

Progression is boring, not because of the system, the matter is there isnt no LORE, no animations, no explanation or something, just some boring random emails wtf... you cant feel the ambientation or you are in a city where there is a war between Criminals and enforcers and the story already it's full of plotholes (for example where is a hypotetical army or central governament in this matter, why the old mayor got killed, what happened to the major daugheter?

 

I remind you, You have a free permanent  weapon to choose when you make new character... you or others skip pinguins have just to make 5 min of tutorial 

First me claiming P2W? I'm talking about APB:R's image as a P2W Free-2-Play game.

 

The free permanent weapon choice is another anxiety experience for new players, It should give them that choice after they max the first 8 contacts. The base weapons should be free and permanently available considering this game is centered around switching during missions.

 

As for the previous incumbent's daughter, Jane Darren is the current mayor for San Paro. Unless you meant "major"? Which case idk.

[Yapopal 169]

A simple proof that the game is not P2W. A novice and a veteran in a fight receive the same set of weapons. Who will win? Of course, a veteran. That is, the root of the problem is matchmaking. 
Any META gun can be obtained without investing real money in a short time. There's a fight club for that. Robberies. Trading symbols. 
The initial weapon is STAR, a very good cannon for a beginner. Why buy something at all if you don't know how to shoot a STAR cannon? 
I invited my friends to this game. They stayed in it for about an hour. During this time, I heard a lot of obscenities and swearing and more than one positive emotion. The main problem of this game is matchmaking. New players think they are competing with cheaters.  Just remember how you are being killed with an Obeya pistol. This happens in a second, there are no hitsounds, the health interface does not have time to convey information to the player. 

[ProJH 25]

Maximum 24-hour item listing in a dead game using this horrible interface what makes me sad.

[TzickyT 212]

a lot of stuff i can't agree on but theres also some stuff i can agree on ... not everythng wil be as you lay it out or has the possibility to be layed out how you or another person wants. but it has the opportunity to try out. thats said i doubt LO can make all these decision's work.

[PingOVER9000 189]

6 hours ago, EvaPooh said:

First me claiming P2W? I'm talking about APB:R's image as a P2W Free-2-Play game.

 

The free permanent weapon choice is another anxiety experience for new players, It should give them that choice after they max the first 8 contacts. The base weapons should be free and permanently available considering this game is centered around switching during missions.

 

As for the previous incumbent's daughter, Jane Darren is the current mayor for San Paro. Unless you meant "major"? Which case idk.

 

Huh.. First well it's true you havent directly told APB is P2W game, but seeing the posted review I assumed you was indirectly agree of the same opinions, my bad and apoligize for assuming wrong.

 

• About free and several permanent weapons directly No , as we know the satisfaction of  E A R N I N G something by my/ourself has always a bitter but flavouble invaluable taste, the speech worth also in game, it's not a good idea in my weak opinion cut this and give all for based/free ,  if you want to talk about the possibility of reducing subtiantaly or in proportion the prices of renting weapons, well for that I am agree... the fact the prices are always indifferently the same  despite the  level of weapon role or character rank... yes that's a lack from a certain point of view. There tons of very good suggestions for new players or seasoned ones,  like this on below posted from @Frosi here suggesting the weapon role at max or higher level shall be shared between the several characters in one account... but I doubt we'll never see something like this in the game such as DEVS as usual dont read the game suggestions at all since forever

 

• Then, The fact is Free to play players have already full freedom to choose weapons, they have just to progress and pay the renting. it's not a secret, make tons of money is relativily easy exploit to do in APB, both crims and criminals, especially when they work togheter if you know what I mean, anyway in half hour you make a lot of money safely for renting anything you want for forever renting anything you like ,

 

New Players, they have just to have their properly matchmaking and play their first weeks, ??or first 150 ranks maybe ??,  ""safely"" between noobs as it should be right, changing weapons everytime you change location is something I will not encourage to how a new player may play, if I was a new player I will find this way you suggest of playing stressfull and annoying ,  they shall have their time getting confident weapon by weapon as me and you very probabily do at the beginning.

6 hours ago, EvaPooh said:

As for the previous incumbent's daughter, Jane Darren is the current mayor for San Paro. Unless you meant "major"? Which case idk.

Yes I meant mayor.. anyway the lore is still stagnant and so full of plotholes, it's shame they havent done further development because the story has a really interesting starting and some characters are really interesting... if you have the patience of reading mails of gibberfish english with 30 rows 

Edited June 14, 2023 by PingOVER9000

[Mozie 54]

Nah

edit: APB is not a competitive shooter, most changes in the past 10 years have cemented that fact. Most people of the community provides horrible feedback and complains when they get what they want. Be careful what you wish for xd.

Edited June 14, 2023 by Mozie

[Divait 1]

No one gonna read what this lil bro wrote  Just kidding of course, you state a good points for making the game better and I pressed the like, but will try to explain what I didn't like or what they should also add:

1. Return the 40v40 mission servers maximum limit of players to make the game run smoother for everyone else.
2. Remove all the garbage no mod (0 mod) vehicles from the game and replace them with Mobile Spawner (ONLY 1) Mode, because the starting vehicles has this mode already and making it grind for other cars makes no sense. (I know that you may buy any vehicle or mod from social's district marketplace but then you will not be able to customize it) Here is the link on my topic where I explained the all things more properly.
3. They should make customizable UI in general because personally for me and maybe other players it was a cool idea. I also wanted to change my radar placement but wasn't able to do that due to the lack of customisations.


Okay, that's all for now from me, now back to your solutions:

1. Players are able to rep any contact regardless of current district - I don't think it will work because people will abandon the waterfront district completely and will start to play only in the financial one. Personally - I enjoy playing in both districts and hating the fact that waterfront always missing players.
2. Threat levels hidden until the match is concluded (prevents discouragement) - Honestly, I would just disable the whole ranking threats like they (LO) did on consoles. Old players aka veterans will still continue to play like usual and the new players will probably rage less. The other solution to this is to make the separate matchmaking system. (ranked and normal missions are separate)

 

Merged.

 

On 6/13/2023 at 2:30 PM, PingOVER9000 said:

The game seems more a battle between two different criminal gangs in a city, I dont see enough difference between enfo or crims at the end.. mission are same for both.

It's easier to play as an enforcer because you have the less equipment loadout overall. Also I would assume that the new players are willing to play as a criminal more than as an enforcer.

EDIT: Also - I forgot to mention that the enforcers progress contacts a little bit faster comparing to the criminals. (Actually which is a true if you compare the game to the real life, criminals have authority and respect as the main things, enforcers have loyality and friendship)

 

Merged.

 

11 hours ago, Yapopal said:

A simple proof that the game is not P2W. A novice and a veteran in a fight receive the same set of weapons. Who will win? Of course, a veteran. That is, the root of the problem is matchmaking. 
Any META gun can be obtained without investing real money in a short time. There's a fight club for that. Robberies. Trading symbols. 
The initial weapon is STAR, a very good cannon for a beginner. Why buy something at all if you don't know how to shoot a STAR cannon? 
I invited my friends to this game. They stayed in it for about an hour. During this time, I heard a lot of obscenities and swearing and more than one positive emotion. The main problem of this game is matchmaking. New players think they are competing with cheaters.  Just remember how you are being killed with an Obeya pistol. This happens in a second, there are no hitsounds, the health interface does not have time to convey information to the player. 

You forgot to mention that the veteran will use 2-3 slot weapons while the new player will use no mod weapon. (aka 0 mod)  It's already makes the sense, the new player will be on the level against the veteran only with at least 1 mod weapon. (of course talking about free mod weapons where you may place anything you wish so)

But obviously I agree that the MM is a bad at the moment.

If you have the problem with: "the health interface does not have time to convey information" - Try to uncheck the "Low Quality Health HUD" in the Advanced Video Options of the game.

Edited June 14, 2023 by Divait

[Jilleroo 349]

8 hours ago, ProJH said:

Maximum 24-hour item listing in a dead game using this horrible interface what makes me sad.

This is great point, I'm going to add it to the list! Thank you for sharing.

7 hours ago, TzickyT said:

a lot of stuff i can't agree on but theres also some stuff i can agree on ... not everythng wil be as you lay it out or has the possibility to be layed out how you or another person wants. but it has the opportunity to try out. thats said i doubt LO can make all these decision's work.

That's fair! I don't want anyone getting the wrong idea, I don't think my ideas are perfect.

 

Given the state of the game and people I've talked to tho, I sense a lot of people have given up on changing things, but I want to try something new (or get some meaningful discussion going at least). 

6 hours ago, PingOVER9000 said:

Huh.. First well it's true you havent directly told APB is P2W game, but seeing the posted review I assumed you was indirectly agree of the same opinions, my bad and apoligize for assuming wrong.

• About free and several permanent weapons directly, if you want to talk about the possibility of reducing subtiantaly or in proportion the prices of renting weapons, well for that I am agree... 
• Then, The fact is Free to play players have already full freedom to choose weapons, they have just to progress and pay the renting. it's not a secret, make tons of money is relativily easy exploit to do in APB, both crims and criminals, especially when they work togheter if you know what I mean, anyway in half hour you make a lot of money safely for renting anything you want for forever renting anything you like ,

I forgive, no harm done!

 

I really don't want to adjust leasing, I want to get rid of it. People want to have fun, this timer on guns is really off-putting to new players. It stinks of older F2P games that rent-out stuff.

 

A lot of players don't even know how to join a district with players in it (the advanced tab is a problem) let alone "exploiting" the in-game economy to rent some guns. New players just want to have fun, not farm cash watching a criminal ramming buildings so they can witness them lol.

6 hours ago, Mozie said:

Nah

edit: APB is not a competitive shooter, most changes in the past 10 years have cemented that fact. Most people of the community provides horrible feedback and complains when they get what they want. Be careful what you wish for xd.

I'd argue it is, since you're competing with others to shoot them in the face before they shoot you LOL.

 

As for the last 10 years, there's a new company in charge so I'd rather focus on the future than the past.

 

5 hours ago, Divait said:

1. Return the 40v40 mission servers maximum limit of players to make the game run smoother for everyone else.
2. Remove all the garbage no mod (0 mod) vehicles from the game and replace them with Mobile Spawner (ONLY 1) Mode, because the starting vehicles has this mode already and making it grind for other cars makes no sense. (I know that you may buy any vehicle or mod from social's district marketplace but then you will not be able to customize it) Here is the link on my topic where I explained the all things more properly.
3. They should make customizable UI in general because personally for me and maybe other players it was a cool idea. I also wanted to change my radar placement but wasn't able to do that due to the lack of customisations.


Okay, that's all for now from me, now back to your solutions:

1. Players are able to rep any contact regardless of current district - I don't think it will work because people will abandon the waterfront district completely and will start to play only in the financial one. Personally - I enjoy playing in both districts and hating the fact that waterfront always missing players.
2. Threat levels hidden until the match is concluded (prevents discouragement) - Honestly, I would just disable the whole ranking threats like they (LO) did on consoles. Old players aka veterans will still continue to play like usual and the new players will probably rage less. The other solution to this is to make the separate matchmaking system. (ranked and normal missions are separate)

For #2, The removal (and replacement) of non-mod cars is a huge plus for me. (Exactly the type of discussion I was hoping to see!)

 

Changes like this are SO important to help modernize it.

The only ones who buy non-slot cars are new players cause they're desperate and now have to deal with missing out on arguably the most important car mod in the entire game.

A configurable UI would be lovely as well, I agree.

 

 

It's hard to presume what players will do with unlocked contact progression... Personally, I like both maps and would continue playing both either way.

The important thing is that players can make progression regardless if the district is dead, because some days I literally couldn't advance in rank cause my only contacts available were Financial, but it was a 4-day streak of Waterfront on NA East... Zzz lol.

[CIoud 26]

⠀

Edited September 6, 2023 by who

[Aka2k 5]

Why not cut all progression altogether and leave the game as a pure team death match? Just leave the $ earnings and stuff locked behind roles to unlock, leave everything else open for grabs as soon as you finish the tutorial.

 

I mean, progression and grind is just useful to sell premium accounts. It has been over 3 years since that's not a thing. The contact is there just to hamper and slow the fun for those trying the game right now. The cash grind and roles progression should be more than enough to keep players entertained at this point. And maybe rise the price of OSMAW and OPGL so it doesn't become a permanent explosives gun game.

[BlatMan 711]

I'm just going to focus on Progression for now.

 

1. Progression

 

- I don't think progression needs to be faster on the lower tier contacts. The first 4 go by really fast. The 15lvl and 20lvl contacts do need their standing per level reduced.

 

- Customization unlocks need to be adjusted. Currently we can't unlock symbols due to Joker tickets and consumables interfering with random rewards. There's no information in game on how unlocking assets works, so new players will not know what they need to do to unlock X item. My suggestion is to have a list of every single item that can be unlocked, and where to unlock it, similar to APB:DB, but as an in game interface.

 

- Low tier vehicle unlocks need to be adjusted. Currently you unlock the higher tier vehicles at the same time as the lower tier. What's the point of limiting free to spawn 4-slot vehicles to R195+ players? A 4 slot Han Veo is kinda pointless when you have 3 and 4 slot Pioneer available, or 4x4 Vegas through Joker tickets. I think the slotted variants of free to spawn vehicles should be unlocked by default, but kept at the same price ($50,000). Add some kits that are unlocked through the lower contacts, or through the tutorial. Allow the front end of these vehicles to be interchanged. The visual models line up perfectly, and there's examples done by RTW in the vehicle packages.

 

 

 

[Haganu 104]

Relying on cosmetics only for microtransaction revenue wouldn't work in this game because the tech it runs on is far too constraining. It works for a game like PSO2, which gets new cosmetics every 2 weeks distributed through lootboxes (the good old gacha system), because their tech allows clothing to be detailed and elaborate, with physics. Impossible for APB as it currently is but with proper tech I'd support having only the most superficial stuff be distributed through microtransactions.

Edited June 27, 2023 by Haganu

[Jilleroo 349]

On 6/16/2023 at 2:00 PM, BlatMan said:

- I don't think progression needs to be faster on the lower tier contacts. The first 4 go by really fast. The 15lvl and 20lvl contacts do need their standing per level reduced.

 

- Customization unlocks need to be adjusted. Currently we can't unlock symbols due to Joker tickets and consumables interfering with random rewards. There's no information in game on how unlocking assets works, so new players will not know what they need to do to unlock X item. My suggestion is to have a list of every single item that can be unlocked, and where to unlock it, similar to APB:DB, but as an in game interface.

 

- Low tier vehicle unlocks need to be adjusted. Currently you unlock the higher tier vehicles at the same time as the lower tier. What's the point of limiting free to spawn 4-slot vehicles to R195+ players? A 4 slot Han Veo is kinda pointless when you have 3 and 4 slot Pioneer available, or 4x4 Vegas through Joker tickets. I think the slotted variants of free to spawn vehicles should be unlocked by default, but kept at the same price ($50,000). Add some kits that are unlocked through the lower contacts, or through the tutorial. Allow the front end of these vehicles to be interchanged. The visual models line up perfectly, and there's examples done by RTW in the vehicle packages.

The speeds can be adjusted as we see fit, the main point I'm raising is that we reexamine how much effort it takes to ascend the ranks, which I feel is too slow.

 

The game is so old, all the base symbols should honestly just be unlocked either for free, or sold for in-game money. Getting a symbol as a mission reward is like... wow lmao.

On 6/27/2023 at 12:27 PM, Haganu said:

Relying on cosmetics only for microtransaction revenue wouldn't work in this game because the tech it runs on is far too constraining. It works for a game like PSO2, which gets new cosmetics every 2 weeks distributed through lootboxes (the good old gacha system), because their tech allows clothing to be detailed and elaborate, with physics. Impossible for APB as it currently is but with proper tech I'd support having only the most superficial stuff be distributed through microtransactions.

It absolutely would work, the game just needs a healthy playerbase and to cull a lot of archaic and horrendous design choices that don't mesh with the current mindset of the industry.

[Haganu 104]

20 hours ago, Jilleroo said:

The speeds can be adjusted as we see fit, the main point I'm raising is that we reexamine how much effort it takes to ascend the ranks, which I feel is too slow.

 

The game is so old, all the base symbols should honestly just be unlocked either for free, or sold for in-game money. Getting a symbol as a mission reward is like... wow lmao.

It absolutely would work, the game just needs a healthy playerbase and to cull a lot of archaic and horrendous design choices that don't mesh with the current mindset of the industry.

They'll run out of ideas before long and if they decide to do some more outlandish designs it'll end up like the Pestilence suit due to tech constraints. Looks promising in concept but falls flat, literally, in the final product.

 

Need better tech before creative leads can run free.

[cowhorseman 441]

if i took a shot for every wall text post on how to fix apb i would have serve alcohol poisoning

[Jilleroo 349]

On 7/1/2023 at 9:58 AM, Haganu said:

They'll run out of ideas before long and if they decide to do some more outlandish designs it'll end up like the Pestilence suit due to tech constraints. Looks promising in concept but falls flat, literally, in the final product.

 

Need better tech before creative leads can run free.

That's fair, but not my main concern as I'm more interested in tweaking the gameplay loop cause they haven't altered the gameplay or progression in a meaningful way in years.

 

Anyway, the only reason I was even here was to share my opinion because Ritual encouraged me to do so. It's nearly a month later tho and not a single person with any development gravitas has even chimed in. There's no passion, no connecting with the players, they're just clocked out lmao.