Preset mods on the ACES series

[mojical 160]

As the title says, would it be possible to have the preset barrel mods on ACES weapons removed? Their descriptions are just cosmetic, their icon is (very) poorly designed and sticks out compared to other modifications, and the only effective purpose they serve is preventing players from equipping red mods on either of the ACES variants. 

 

Given how poorly these weapons perform in today's meta, with more forgiving guns such as the Whisper or PMG basically being a straight upgrade over them, the ability to equip reds could give them a welcome boost in usage. Right now the ACES (in either variant) is sort of a high-risk-low-reward weapon and while fun to play, because it encourages proper tracking, it could use the small boost in expandability. I am pretty sure that no red mod would make the ACES broken or overpowered, particularly after competing guns such as the OCA have been buffed.

 

 

As a curiosity, 3-4 years ago (IIRC) G1 mistakenly released a version of the PDW-57 (P90) that instead of being a reskin of the OCA had the stats of the ACES rifle, and could take red mods. Most people put CJ3 in it which while effective at close range also increased bloom and the likelihood to run out of bullets mid fight. Of course, it was taken out of the Joker store and deleted promptly, but it was fun while it lasted...

 

 

 

[CookiePuss 5378]

I mean the ACES smg out ttk's the OCA... so thats something?

 

Also more accurate than the OCA (21cm radius at 10m vs 36cm for the OCA).

 

Now that I think about it... I might have to buy one.

Edited June 28, 2018 by CookiePuss

[Lord Cashpoint 269]

Just now, CookiePuss said:

I mean the ACES smg out ttk's the OCA... so thats something?

 

By 0.01 seconds, which is hardly much of an advantage when the OCA gets far more bullets to play with. 

[CookiePuss 5378]

1 minute ago, Lord Cashpoint said:

By 0.01 seconds, which is hardly much of an advantage when the OCA gets far more bullets to play with. 

Dont forget the accuracy difference.

So you miss less, which means you need less bullets.

[mojical 160]

Just now, CookiePuss said:

Dont forget the accuracy difference.

So you miss less, which means you need less bullets.

 

The problem is that unlike the OCA, the ACES does not recover all (or almost all) of its bloom in between shots. So by the time you've shot 5 rounds in full auto with the ACES the accuracy difference is already gone. Sure, you can fire in bursts, but that won't do any favors to the effective TTK. Also, the OCA's TTK disadvantage is easily offset by equipping CJ2/CJ3 which the ACES can't do.

[CookiePuss 5378]

6 minutes ago, Lyfeld said:

 

The problem is that unlike the OCA, the ACES does not recover all (or almost all) of its bloom in between shots. So by the time you've shot 5 rounds in full auto with the ACES the accuracy difference is already gone. Sure, you can fire in bursts, but that won't do any favors to the effective TTK. Also, the OCA's TTK disadvantage is easily offset by equipping CJ2/CJ3 which the ACES can't do.

The ACES has a higher recovery per shot when compared to the OCA (6.00 vs 5.68).

Also Cooling Jacket makes for even less accuracy for the OCA further increasing the accuracy advantage of the ACES.

Basically the ACES smg is a more accurate, but less forgiving smg when compared to the OCA.

Edited June 28, 2018 by CookiePuss

[mojical 160]

Just now, CookiePuss said:

The ACES has a higher recovery per shot when compared to the OCA (6.00 vs 5.68).

That's the recovery per second, not per shot. You have to multiply this by the fire interval to make a direct comparison.  And yes, the fire interval of the ACES is much lower (0.045s vs. 0,091s) , as it has a higher firerate.

 

 

You can test this by trialing an ACES and shooting at a wall, and seeing how the crosshair grows bigger, while the OCA's bounces around but stays the same size after each round. CJ3 does negate this and add some very slight bloom, but most of the bloom is still recovered between shots. 

 

Also, the fire interval values for weapons such as the ACES are inaccurate on APBVault because of rounding to 2 decimal digits. It's better to divide the TTK by the shots to kill minus one, to get a more accurate number. 

[CookiePuss 5378]

2 minutes ago, Lyfeld said:

That's the recovery per second, not per shot. You have to multiply this by the fire interval to make a direct comparison.  And yes, the fire interval of the ACES is much lower (0.045s vs. 0,091s) , as it has a higher firerate.

 

 

You can test this by trialing an ACES and shooting at a wall, and seeing how the crosshair grows bigger, while the OCA's bounces around but stays the same size after each round. CJ3 does negate this and add some very slight bloom, but most of the bloom is still recovered between shots. 

 

Also, the fire interval values for weapons such as the ACES are inaccurate on APBVault because of rounding to 2 decimal digits. It's better to divide the TTK by the shots to kill minus one, to get a more accurate number. 

I love how nerdy this conversation is.

 

I think I will trial the ACES once the servers start working though, see if I cant switch up my OCA crutching a bit.

[DouglasFalcon 125]

Matt has already stated in a pinned post that they're gonna buff or tweak weaker weapons to encourage players to use them. 
For example they're getting rid of the accuracy debuff for Anubis after sprinting while giving it a better crosshair, effectively removing his biggest issue and giving its only niche back.

 

 

I would wait a couple weeks before making these threads because right now they've already planned this; we should be ready to provide accurate and non-biased feedback instead.

[vsb 6171]

id rather they not remove the preset mod, back when the p90 knockoff model was accidentally released early with aces rifle stats the gun was a laser with hb 

 

 

more preferrable to rollback the unnecessary oca buff imo

[Thelnformer 63]

Ace_R is actually a DAMN NICE weapon, Ace_S is crap though !

 

 

Ace-R is SMG and is a rifle, you get almost no accuracy lose running around shooting outside MM and you get damn good accuracy in MM. Im ACE_R user and been using it for like really long time, you can actually out hit avg+ ntec user at 30-40m with ACE_R if you tap fire really quick. You wont loose any accuracy + you will be shooting fast n moving around...

 

 

I use Mob sling+Extnd 2 and it works wonders !

[TheJellyGoo 343]

2 hours ago, CookiePuss said:

I love how nerdy this conversation is.

 

I think I will trial the ACES once the servers start working though, see if I cant switch up my OCA crutching a bit.

You really have a wrong picture of the ACES. You will rethink all your points and make a whole 180 on the topic once you have trialed it^^

The ACER on the other hand might fit a bit more into your picture - recommend trialing that too

 

I use ACES from time to time when I need a change and run a rather odd setup of HS3 and MS. Can be a fun gun.

Edited June 28, 2018 by TheJellyGoo

[Nanometic 265]

I'd think its more so to stop the use of red mods on it. Imagine cj3, hb2/3, mb or ir3 on it. I feel like it'd be insane 

[TheJellyGoo 343]

22 minutes ago, Nanometic said:

I'd think its more so to stop the use of red mods on it. Imagine cj3, hb2/3, mb or ir3 on it. I feel like it'd be insane 

It would actually balance and specialize them compared to most other guns that can use mods without their disadvantages having any large impact on the gun.

[Nanometic 265]

7 hours ago, TheJellyGoo said:

It would actually balance and specialize them compared to most other guns that can use mods without their disadvantages having any large impact on the gun.

I honestly can't form an opinion about it without a hands on test.

[stateofthegame 23]

I think the rifle variant is totally fine, though having access to red mods on it would be nice, I don't think it'll make a real difference to the gun.

 

 

The smg needs a small TTK reduction, that's about it.

[vsb 6171]

31 minutes ago, UpholdThePeace said:

I think the rifle variant is totally fine, though having access to red mods on it would be nice, I don't think it'll make a real difference to the gun.

 

 

The smg needs a small TTK reduction, that's about it.

you want it to kill even faster?

[Nickyan 13]

In general the guns with preset mods should be balanced so that they don't need preset mods to artificially weaken them.

Edited June 29, 2018 by Nickyan

[stateofthegame 23]

2 hours ago, BXNNXD said:

you want it to kill even faster?

It's one option.

 

I think it needs a reason to be used above the OCA/PMG.

Currently it has a faster TTK however it's less forgiving per mag and much harder to aim consistently with.

 

Think of it like the FBW vs the .45

 

FBW is more forgiving and easier to handle.

.45 kills faster and is far less forgiving.

[Nymphi--DoubleDee 83]

17 hours ago, Lyfeld said:

As the title says, would it be possible to have the preset barrel mods on ACES weapons removed? Their descriptions are just cosmetic, their icon is (very) poorly designed and sticks out compared to other modifications, and the only effective purpose they serve is preventing players from equipping red mods on either of the ACES variants. 

The ACES-S and the ACES-R function differently, though. It's not just cosmetic.

 

http://apbdb.com/items/FnMod_Weapon_ShortBarrel/

http://apbdb.com/items/FnMod_Weapon_ExtendedBarrel/

 

And the Short Barrel is better than Cooling Jacket 3.

http://apbdb.com/items/FnMod_Weapon_CoolingJacket3/

 

The ACES-S is a beast in CQC, with MagPull3. Just dump and reload faster than an OCA. You just gotta know how to use the weapons.

Edited June 29, 2018 by Nymphi--DoubleDee

[mojical 160]

2 minutes ago, Nymphi--DoubleDee said:

The ACES-S and the ACES-R function differently, though. It's not just cosmetic.

 

http://apbdb.com/items/FnMod_Weapon_ShortBarrel/

http://apbdb.com/items/FnMod_Weapon_ExtendedBarrel/

 

And the Short Barrel is better than Cooling Jacket 3.

http://apbdb.com/items/FnMod_Weapon_CoolingJacket3/

 

They function differently because they use a different base weapon, not because of the mod. If you look closely, the multipliers attached to each line of the description do nothing. It's literally just text. These "modifiers" are respective to a common base that does not even exist, which is why the text does not make any sense in the first place.

[Zolerox 564]

17 hours ago, CookiePuss said:

I mean the ACES smg out ttk's the OCA... so thats something?

 

Also more accurate than the OCA (21cm radius at 10m vs 36cm for the OCA).

 

Now that I think about it... I might have to buy one.

I forgot how much i like the Kris.. I mean the ACES series

 

have to buy 1 myself (the smg variant that levels Pointman)

Edited June 29, 2018 by Zolerox

[Eixo 33]

imo SMG is fine in total CQC just spray and you will hit even with bloom, on longer range just burst burst.. Aces smg has surprisingly good range and it rekts SMGs on a bit longer range... putting red mods wont help at all.. with CJ you will bloom to an unplayable state maybe like Blody marry blooms... weaspon are fine imo it just depends on how to play them... i learned to play both SMG and rifle as well and sometimes i am running nuts

[aedn 6]

19 hours ago, CookiePuss said:

I mean the ACES smg out ttk's the OCA... so thats something?

 

Also more accurate than the OCA (21cm radius at 10m vs 36cm for the OCA).

 

Now that I think about it... I might have to buy one.

it blooms crazy fast, you have to down a guy in two 'bursts' unless you're hugging them. it's definitely an awesome weapon but will lose to anybody with decent movement/cover because of its ammo restraint.

[Ashley 19]

The preset red mod was added to remove the ability to use Heavy Barrel because it effectively negated the bloom and made it a laser beam.