Balance changes beyond weapons (grenades/deployables)

[mojical 159]

@MattScott

 

Will the balance changes also target grenades and deployable modifications at some point?

 

 

Anyway, here's my personal opinion on these two types of items:

 

I believe Low-Yield fragmentation grenades could do with something like a moderate blast radius reduction as their huge radius (equal to regular frags) and low fuse time makes them too easy to just spam at enemies. This type of change would encourage players who use this type of grenade to make more precise throws. 

 

As a counterpoint to a change like this, a new alternative path to unlock them could be added so that beginning players can at least try them out without having to grind to upwards of R195 for them. Lore and mechanics wise they seem like a decent fit for a beginner, particularly those wanting to switch away from percussion grenades. This unlock could be achieved for example with Joker Tickets, much like the leased 7 day mods.  Funnily enough, the item description states that this grenade was intended to be sold in ARMAS at some point. Thankfully this didn't actually happen...

 

 

Also, I would seriously consider removing the ability to resupply (practically unlimited amounts of) grenades from deployable ammo crates, because this can make low yield users even more frustrating to face if they get a defend spot on high ground and can just keep on throwing grenades. The only way to resupply grenades besides field suppliers should be the mobile supply unit, which is heavily underused nowadays. 

 

Finally, a more radical way to solve the complaints about "grenade spam", "air strikes", etc. could be changing grenades to run on a cooldown (such as one grenade each 15s) rather than carrying a limited supply of them. Items that affect the amount of grenades carried (such as low yields or flak jacket) could decrease or increase said cooldown respectively. I think this would also be a good mechanic for people who survive through a lot of fights and can't afford to resupply, for example in fight club. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Hexerin 1140]

The only balance change needed for grenades is Low-Yield Fragmentation Grenade held count 3 -> 2. Grenades are in a perfectly balanced state beyond that.

 

As far as deployables/consumables go, there's a whole slew of adjustments needed across the board (especially to Remote Detonator).

[Railer 8]

Low yields do need change but tbh i dont think making grenade count go from 3 to 2 will be enough. Also while we at it, for the love of god can we just get rid of percs? Like what is the point of them? Annoy people cause smb dealt 80 dmg to them by clikcing grenade button twice? Dont make me start on perc + stabba combo....
As for Concs i feel like 990 dmg they do currently is just stlighly too much, I d like to see them dropping dmg to 900 ish.
Also why do stun grenades are 1 hit stun? They are like pre nerf concs and there was a reason to nerf concs to start with. Stamina system is already annoying enough without this.(Yes PIG i m looking at you)

[professionalgamer 32]

grenades are AOE hvrs

[InkieTheSauzeGod 48]

Make Concs 1 hit again !

 

 

Edited June 24, 2018 by InkieTheSauzeGod

[CookiePuss 5377]

Plz no.

[Alani 475]

nerf grenades into fluffy hacky sack balls

 

 

 

who needs explosive bombs

[PayTM 2]

9 hours ago, Lyfeld said:

@MattScott

....

Finally, a more radical way to solve the complaints about "grenade spam", "air strikes", etc. could be changing grenades to run on a cooldown (such as one grenade each 15s)

 

That's a pretty solid suggestion.

Edited June 24, 2018 by PayTM

[CookiePuss 5377]

People always acting like only their opp has nades or only their opp can spam them, or that there arent other things you can do vs nade spam.

Adapt and overcome my friends, adapt and overcome.

 

[Alani 475]

14 minutes ago, CookiePuss said:

People always acting like only their opp has nades or only their opp can spam them, or that there arent other things you can do vs nade spam.

Adapt and overcome my friends, adapt and overcome.

 

no

 

instead it would be better to change how grenades work to suit the playstyle of a specific person instead of letting them learn how to play the game.

 

too much work is involved with getting better at the game and learning. its easier to fix everything around how i play

[CookiePuss 5377]

Just now, Obvious Lesbian said:

no

 

instead it would be better to change how grenades work to suit the playstyle of a specific person instead of letting them learn how to play the game.

 

too much work is involved with getting better at the game and learning. its easier to fix everything around how i play

Yeah, you right.

Mah bad fams.

 

[PayTM 2]

8 minutes ago, Obvious Lesbian said:

no

 

instead it would be better to change how grenades work to suit the playstyle of a specific person instead of letting them learn how to play the game.

  

too much work is involved with getting better at the game and learning. its easier to fix everything around how i play

It's actually fine to adapt to different "may-seem-broken" tactics and weapons in any game, pre-nerf HVR for e.g can be countered by rushing the opponent and forcing him in closed areas and CQC battles, that's pretty fine and that's what good players do on daily basis, However, suggesting a balance is not about the "oh i can't play the game cause of (insert weapon here)", It's all about making the game more challenging and fights more fair thus more interesting.

[Spheri 66]

I don't think nerfing the low yield grenades solely will lead to much balance. Much of the issue's you mentioned such as spamming grenades can be done with any type of grenade, not just the low-yield. 
Should the low-yield get nerfed to two, there's little to no point in using low yields over percussions. If you're doing it for the low explosion time, percussions, if you're doing it for the damage. Frags. The low-yield is a good mix of both the aforementioned grenades. If you're complaining about grenade spam being too good with low-yields then you merely have to stop sitting at the same spot for an extended time or throw nades back. People who spam grenades are probably sitting at one spot or close to their ammo box. 

Personally I think grenades are in a good spot, you've got multiple variations and to each their own. 

[Hexerin 1140]

3 minutes ago, Spherii said:

Should the low-yield get nerfed to two, there's little to no point in using low yields over percussions. If you're doing it for the low explosion time, percussions, if you're doing it for the damage. Frags. The low-yield is a good mix of both the aforementioned grenades.

Low-Yields would still be used due to the mixture of shorter fuse and longer throw (with less arc) compared to Frags. They would become an alternative, rather than the default. Percussions serve an entirely different purpose, and aren't really comparable.

[Excalibur! 207]

If you dont want people to throw nades at you maybe you should stop camping and try to kill them?

[Spheri 66]

18 minutes ago, Hexerin said:

Low-Yields would still be used due to the mixture of shorter fuse and longer throw (with less arc) compared to Frags. They would become an alternative, rather than the default. Percussions serve an entirely different purpose, and aren't really comparable.

Depends on how you view percussions, percussions are the type to explode instantly on impact, meaning you can make an immediate entrance by throwing a nade at a corner, which does not signalize the enemy because of no sound occurring , or more commonly known as a finishing move. Pretty dirty combo with an HVR.

The low-explosion time on low-yields are in that regard comparable to percussions, with one going off sooner than the other. By personal experience some people really enjoy the low-explosion time on low-yields, and could use these as an alternative. If you're referring to the nade-throwing however..

I think being able to snipe people with grenades isn't imbalanced either, if it's from far away you can see the grenades coming. Do note this requires quite some experience with these nades. 

Lastly  I disagree with low-yields being the default, I've seen a healthy mix of concussions, percussions and low yields. The regular frag nades might not see as much spotlight other than the newer players who unlock these first or people just sticking with them, but I don't think low-yield is the default. You could argue that people don't know any better, but if it really were that imbalanced, people would use low-yields all the time. 

It's a situation of learning to adapt, changing the grenade count from 3 to 2 would do nothing more than to stop grenade-spamming, which is a situation of not sitting at the same spot over and over, and seems like a rushed idea of not really knowing how to balance something that isn't in my eyes broken.

Edited June 24, 2018 by Spherii

[vsb 6171]

4 minutes ago, Spherii said:

Depends on how you view percussions, percussions are the type to explode instantly on impact, meaning you can make an immediate entrance by throwing a nade at a corner, which does not signalize the enemy because of no sound occurring , or more commonly known as a finishing move. Pretty dirty combo with an HVR.

The low-explosion time on low-yields are in that regard comparable to percussions, with one going off sooner than the other. By personal experience some people really enjoy the low-explosion time on low-yields, and could use these as an alternative. If you're referring to the nade-throwing however..

I think being able to snipe people with grenades isn't imbalanced either, if it's from far away you can see the grenades coming. Do note this requires quite some experience with these nades. 

Lastly  I disagree with low-yields being the default, I've seen a healthy mix of concussions, percussions and low yields. The regular frag nades might not see as much spotlight other than the newer players who unlock these first or people just sticking with them, but I don't think low-yield is the default. You could argue that people don't know any better, but if it really were that imbalanced, people would use low-yields all the time. 

It's a situation of learning to adapt, changing the grenade count from 3 to 2 would do nothing more than to stop grenade-spamming, which is a situation of not sitting at the same spot over and over, and seems like a rushed idea of not really knowing how to balance something that isn't in my eyes broken.

honestly i’m pretty sure the only reason grenades solely aren’t loyos (and percs for the silvers) is just because loyos are locked to such a high rank

 

 

as it stand low yields are pretty much a straight upgrade to frags, i’d like to see their radius come down to 4-5m

[Keshi 436]

nerf the yukon

[Spheri 66]

1 minute ago, BXNNXD said:

honestly i’m pretty sure the only reason grenades solely aren’t loyos (and percs for the silvers) is just because loyos are locked to such a high rank

 

 

as it stand low yields are pretty much a straight upgrade to frags, i’d like to see their radius come down to 4-5m

If it would make low yields seem more balanced, removing their radius is the only nerf that wouldn't destroy these things, it would make nade-sniping seem even more skillfull, so yeah that should work. An alternative of nerf x and y is just buffing x and y, but that doesn't apply to everything. I don't think grenades are on the big list of things that really need to be nerfed, but it could be low priority I guess.
 

 

2 minutes ago, Keshi said:

nerf the yukon

Because some things are just broken. I'm well aware that I use it myself, but hey, improvise, adapt, overcome.
Or just use the same weapon as them.
 

[Unreal 20]

Low Yield are balanced.

Edited June 24, 2018 by Unreal

[vsb 6171]

2 minutes ago, Spherii said:

If it would make low yields seem more balanced, removing their radius is the only nerf that wouldn't destroy these things, it would make nade-sniping seem even more skillfull, so yeah that should work. An alternative of nerf x and y is just buffing x and y, but that doesn't apply to everything. I don't think grenades are on the big list of things that really need to be nerfed, but it could be low priority I guess.
 

 

Because some things are just broken. I'm well aware that I use it myself, but hey, improvise, adapt, overcome.
Or just use the same weapon as them.
 

honestly i wouldn’t even be opposed to an even smaller radius, given the range and the extra grenade, but i don’t want to start off balancing too extreme lol

[CookiePuss 5377]

And here I am maining concs. 

 

/shrug

[Westford 167]

For those players who use Flac Jacket, low yield grenades are the best option, so you can still hold 2 in your inv.

For all other grenades when wearing Flac Jacket, (Percs, Concs & Frags) you are limited to just 1.

 

[Shini 251]

The biggest issue with low yields is the short fuse timer. It's too quick and easy to crutch on. It also has 3 other big positives so it will probably need another nerf on that.

 

Percs are annoying at most and free damage but they're so limited honestly.

 Not a big deal.

I would also be for removing nade resupply from those deployables.

 

And the 4x4 and Pioneer need looking at to bring them a little down. And Jericho/Bishada need their wheel bugs fixed properly.

 

Edited June 24, 2018 by Shini

[Excalibur! 207]

1 hour ago, Shini said:

The biggest issue with low yields is the short fuse timer. It's too quick and easy to crutch on. It also has 3 other big positives so it will probably need another nerf on that.

 

Percs are annoying at most and free damage but they're so limited honestly.

 Not a big deal.

I would also be for removing nade resupply from those deployables.

 

And the 4x4 and Pioneer need looking at to bring them a little down. And Jericho/Bishada need their wheel bugs fixed properly.

 

So with all that said you want to remove opgl too, right? If you complain about low yields, i cant imagine how much trouble you have with opgl.