Another Wake Up Call Little Orbit

[KyoukiDotExe 231]

No need for a wake up call; I think they are perfectly aware of how things are going. They are working on it. In the meantime, some other fixes or balance changes or content just will have to wait else they have to redo that work again for the engine, and nobody likes double work.

 

Pop numbers are low for a multitude and a lot of different reasons, depends on who you ask on why they might or might not play right now.

[Fortune Runner 796]

9 hours ago, AlienTM said:

This guy Ellix said that he cancel the map for APB and gonna use hes work for another project..so yea thats gone i think

it is little orbits job to add new maps and/or upgrade existing ones to be a real city

fan made ones are doubtful if little orbit could use

[Deadliest 385]

Midtown = endgame map must be R255 to enter 

[VanilleKeks 737]

The pandemic is essentially irrelevant to this game. Even if you lock up everyone at home, new people (at least an amount that isn't negligible in the big picture) won't just magically discover a game that has no marketing whatsoever. Furthermore, other companies (not just videogame companies) have driven extensive marketing campaigns to attract people to and make them use their new found free time with their products (this is why you see other games explode). It's easy to say that people leave because APB is simply worse than before, but once you give it a proper thought you'll realize that it's far more complex (even without these troubled times) than that.

 

I think of all the people that need a wake up call, you are ranking high on the list Dark. Over a very large timespan you have failed to realize (or failed to accept) that the Engine Upgrade is a make it or break it type of situation and that we have no more time to negotiate. It is not worth it to invest resources into a short term player increase (be real with me here, nothing added to LIVE (that is realistically and reasonably possible to code for the old engine) will be anything but a short term increase) even if we were to somehow magically double our player base. It's not going to last.

 

The only resources flowing into the LIVE client should be to keep it running. This isn't easy for anyone passionate about the game but silence and patience will get you further than your routine "wake up call" type post. Accept reality and be patient.

Edited April 21, 2021 by VanilleKeks

[Talla 84]

12 minutes ago, VanilleKeks said:

Over a very large timespan you have failed to realize (or failed to accept) that the Engine Upgrade is a make it or break it type of situation [...] .
It is not worth it to invest resources into a short term player increase will be anything but a short term increase.
Even if we were to somehow magically double our player base. It's not going to last.

We Are All in This for the Long Game, After All.

[RETARD 13]

On 4/19/2021 at 11:09 AM, CookiePuss said:

I hate to break it to you, but everything you've suggested has been said hundreds of times on the forums. People are tired of suggesting I think.

suggestions dont work if they dont use them so its just boring suggesting things they will never add , like you all think you are doing something by making annoying patootie posts like this thread. It does nothing to make things like this.

[VickyFox 353]

On 4/16/2021 at 10:13 AM, Darkzero3802 said:

If by now none of you have seen how bad the pop is your blind. All of the recent decisions by Matt and the lack of addressing anything in the current engine have left everyone flocking away. Unless you shift focus to the current engine to try to salvage what's left your engine work will be pointless as nobody will be playing the game. APB pop has been dying at a faster rate then anytime in its past, and this last yr is during a pandemic where everyone is home all the time and everyone else (other games) saw increases. Wake up LO, wake up Matt time to come back to reality.

Long time no see

To be honest, at the turn of the new year I found myself at a point where I stopped looking at the engine upgrade weekly notes from Matt and stopped playing.

 

I know 1 person who stopped playing back in 2017 who said they'll play APB when the engine upgrade happens. Likewise I would play APB once the engine upgrade is complete but in the mean time there just isn't enough incentive for me to stick around.
There are other games that run better and have new content coming out so why play APB even with free premium.

On 4/16/2021 at 11:45 AM, JunoSuzuki said:

The current pop doesn't matter. Polish the game, make a good ad champagne and get new people to this game. Some people that played APB and took a break/quit will come back anyway.

The chicken and egg of encouraging new players before or after the engine upgrade is quite the long running debate.
Honestly I rather not try and get new players if the game is not offering a great experience or anything new... I mean it's already free to play!

There's only so mush that polish can do and polish isn't going to hide the cracks that are showing.
 

[JunoSuzuki 99]

27 minutes ago, VickyFox said:

The chicken and egg of encouraging new players before or after the engine upgrade is quite the long running debate.
Honestly I rather not try and get new players if the game is not offering a great experience or anything new... I mean it's already free to play!

There's only so mush that polish can do and polish isn't going to hide the cracks that are showing.
 

I meant when the game is polished. Fixing cracks is something else but i was just refering to numbers and you have potentially more new players on a game running on a new engine that got polished out than people that "might" return on a game with a horrible old beta engine that makes making new stuff almost impossible. The first one makes people return anyway. So yea, basicaly what i mean.

[Darkzero3802 611]

You need to retain enough old payers while getting new players to make the money being spent to keep the game running viable. With nothing being done to retain the current playerbase and the new engine more then likely a year or 2 away the money being spent isn't worth it. Everyone can complain all they want that doing anything to the old engine is pointless but at the end of the day they NEED to do just enough until release to make all this time and money spent on the new engine worth it. All those ppl who stopped playing 2, 3, 4, 5 yrs ago to wait on the new engine, do you honestly think they will come back after all this time has passed? The longer you stay away and the more ppl leave the more likely it is that they will never return. The further delayed this engine is the more likely it is that ppl with give up entirely on the game.

[VickyFox 353]

2 hours ago, Darkzero3802 said:

All those ppl who stopped playing 2, 3, 4, 5 yrs ago to wait on the new engine, do you honestly think they will come back after all this time has passed? The longer you stay away and the more ppl leave the more likely it is that they will never return. The further delayed this engine is the more likely it is that ppl with give up entirely on the game.

I was going to write this reply to you in  a message on discord but actually... I think I want other people to know how I feel even if they don't care.

There's trying to be quietly optimistic, supportive and patient... And then there's waiting for over 7 years for something that became meme, It's been so long that the Q1 2014 and Soon™ memes stopped being funny and actually feels insulting!

As much as I love APB and want the very best for it, It's beyond the point of considering what is best for it.

I'm not going to be wasting my time, energy, emotion and money on what is a metaphorical black hole.
 

It'll be the closest thing to a miracle I've seen if/when the engine upgrade is complete.

I admit... I give up... I'm not waiting for the second coming of Jesus Christ here!

After 10 years, I've lost hope for APB, I'm not having fun anymore.

I can only hope someone at Little Orbit reads this and realises just how deeply I feel.
Que sera, sera.

[magik 184]

On 4/17/2021 at 6:37 PM, Genobee said:

Fun-fact: Firefall isn't likely to come back. The current owners of that IP don't want to part with it despite seemingly zero plans to do anything with the MMOFPS or the supposed mobile title that I don't think ever saw the light of day.

I still remember when we were anticipating the release of that game oh so many years ago, and oh how I reminisce the atmosphere I felt playing it, I don't believe I've missed having it in my life all that much.

On 4/18/2021 at 9:17 AM, PotatoeGirl said:

Because it will be harder to bring ppl back once when they have left.

Some will come back when the engine update happens but a lot more won't.

 

Not to mention without any significant new content, the engine update won't change much either. 

While you say it'll be heard to bring people back, I think as LO has planned, and prepared for marketing & advertising, let alone word of mouth once the Engine update rolls out, that attracting a population won't be difficult. Retaining said population after the engine is upgraded is different- especially depending upon the quality of release.

 

If Little Orbit was in dire straights and monetarily lacking, the continued free premium for over a year wouldn't have continued.

On 4/18/2021 at 3:10 PM, Sayori said:

What's not clear to you?

Driving is unresponsive. It's very simple. Cars don't even move at their full speed and controls are not immediate as they should be. Taking a 90 degrees is a nightmare. Generally it feels like  driving a tank, not 4x4. And it's really not only 4x4, it's the same issue with the other cars. Just logged it again to see if it's any difference - well it's not. I know it's not me, neither it's the first time this happens.

And apparently servers are running at 33ms(30fps) but pretty sure this is not the case.

Even G1 was better.

Not sure if it's just you, but I haven't had any issues with driving in the current game. The cars feel the same as they have in the past to me, and my preferences for car choice are still the same.

[HighSociety 148]

14 hours ago, Sergsininia said:

If Little Orbit was in dire straights and monetarily lacking, the continued free premium for over a year wouldn't have continued.

uhm... but... it cost them nothing to give us free Premium.

I don't think the ~20 ppl who would buy premium is that kind of a big deal 

 

If my cashcow is is dying i'd also "do a favor" for the last customers.

Just saying...

 

Edit: doesn't mean i don't think they do something.

Edited April 23, 2021 by HighSociety

[magik 184]

7 hours ago, HighSociety said:

uhm... but... it cost them nothing to give us free Premium.

As a developer, providing a previously paid service for free definitely does cost you. It is revenue that you are no longer receiving. You want to hope that your other sources of revenue can sustain you before you make such a move.

[Jinsen 11]

6 minutes ago, Sergsininia said:

As a developer, providing a previously paid service for free definitely does cost you. It is revenue that you are no longer receiving. You want to hope that your other sources of revenue can sustain you before you make such a move.

Name one person who pays for premium monthly or what ever option they chose?

[Jilleroo 349]

18 hours ago, Jinsen said:

Name one person who pays for premium monthly or what ever option they chose?

My friend trades premium for legendaries, so... Some people want it and are willing to pay for it.

[vsb 6171]

18 hours ago, Jinsen said:

Name one person who pays for premium monthly or what ever option they chose?

hi

[CookiePuss 5379]

35 minutes ago, EvaPooh said:

My friend trades premium for legendaries, so... Some people want it and are willing to pay for it.

I think that's against the rules my guy. 

[Fortune Runner 796]

20 hours ago, Jinsen said:

Name one person who pays for premium monthly or what ever option they chose?

If I had the opportunity to then me....

but its disabled so meh

1 hour ago, CookiePuss said:

I think that's against the rules my guy. 

This is why I wish we had an actual economy similar to how warframe does.

[magik 184]

On 4/23/2021 at 3:40 PM, Jinsen said:

Name one person who pays for premium monthly or what ever option they chose?

Previous to the free premium, I did.

 

I also personally know some people who did.

[Sayori 311]

On 4/23/2021 at 1:02 AM, Sergsininia said:

 

Not sure if it's just you, but I haven't had any issues with driving in the current game. The cars feel the same as they have in the past to me, and my preferences for car choice are still the same.

Definitely not me.  I had the same issue last year, someone on the forums said they experience the same thing. It was gone after awhile and it wasn't across every district. Maybe it's gone now too, I haven't bothered to check again.

Oh, well. I'm still waiting for the Turing's GPUS fix.

Edited April 24, 2021 by Sayori

[Jilleroo 349]

4 hours ago, CookiePuss said:

I think that's against the rules my guy. 

He knows, but I don't think anyone who trades this way cares.

[Revoluzzer 274]

On 4/18/2021 at 10:10 PM, Sayori said:

Driving is unresponsive. It's very simple. Cars don't even move at their full speed and controls are not immediate as they should be.

The districts aren't large enough for truly fast vehicles. If everyone could zip around at 150-200 km/h, they would feel absolutely tiny. (Current top speed is just above 80 km/h.)

As for the handling itself, I think it is fine. The vehicles feel weighty, which I believe is much better than arcade-y driving physics that other games have. Perhaps it's a tad extreme. In contrast, it also makes it a valuable skill to have. A good driver can make a difference in APB.

Plus: Had RTW tried to go in the other direction, we might have ended up with Saint's Row vehicles or something like in Ghost Recon Wildlands (Beta). Ugh.

 

On 4/19/2021 at 12:44 PM, Reprimand said:

Removing the high rank requirement on modifications

Lowering experience needed to level up a contact/earn modifications/weapon slots

Removing the gold district as well as widening the length of time a player maintains their rank before ranking up

I agree with the first two points: The entire progression system needs to be condensed. It's unnecessary fat, which was justifiable when the game was bigger. APB wanted to become more fast paced, more lean. The progression system didn't follow suit.

 

About the third point: (tl;dr: there is a system in place to widen the length a player maintains their threat level. But it can not work if players of similar skill levels are segregated into different districts.)

 

Just removing Gold districts is no solution. Removing threat segregation in general is important, but putting players of similar skill levels in the same districts is the key. They do work on this (and call it phasing, because players will be matched against each other across district-servers and then phase onto the same server), so it's primarily a matter of time.

The threat system (I assume you talk about threat here, not rank) is not progressive. You do not "rank up" (or "rank down", for that matter). Every time you play a mission, your performance is evaluated against everyone else in that same mission (based on the score you reached). Following the conclusion, your personal "score" (glicko value) is adjusted. The coloured threat levels are a representation of glicko value ranges. A Gold player can be one measly point "ahead" of a Silver player. But each threat colour spans over several hundred points. So that Gold would be closer to the Silver than most other Golds, in terms of threat evaluation.

 

One major pitfall concerning matchmaking systems is, to assume they'd be linear (i.e. skill only goes up). Rank is linear. The more you play, the more points you collect. Ultimately you reach R255, no matter how good you are. Skill is fluid. The older you get, the harder it becomes to maintain some skills (playing fast past shooters, for example). Not just motor skills, mind you, also time invested. For example: I just don't have the time to play as much as ten years ago; or at all. My account is probably still Gold threat (although it's supposed to degrade over time, if you don't play). If I started playing again, today, my threat would probably go down quite fast. R255 Bronzes can absolutely, legitimately exist.

 

Back to your third point: "Widening the length of time a player maintains their [threat]" is (supposedly) already part of the system. It's a confidence value. When this value is low, your threat changes quite rapidly. This means each mission performance has a large impact on your glicko value (which goes up or down). The reason for this is, that the system searches for the most optimal skill range for each player. Once you start playing with and against people who share a similar skill level, you will reach similar evaluation results in each mission (which is not just your absolute score, but the relation to everyone else's). As this happens, your confidence value increases and your threat is adjusted less with each mission result. This means, you maintain your threat level more easily, because the system is confident it found the right spot for you across the whole range.

But if you get matched with wildly different skill levels all the time, the system will have a harder time becoming confident in one value. And that's where threat segregation throws a wrench in the whole machine. As I explained before, a Gold and a Silver threat player can be closer to each other than two players of the same "level" (i.e. colour). But if they are segregated into different districts, they will get matched against each other less likely than two players who are far away from each other. For those edge cases, it's difficult to get a high confidence value and as such, their threat remains floaty. The same principle applies to dethreaters, by the way. They actively (and often unknowingly) keep their confidence value low, allowing their threat to rapidly degrade. Fortunately, it can increase just as quickly.

 

If players were unable to manually select districts (like originally intended) and if districts would dynamically adjust their assigned threat range (as. in part, originally intended*), the entire matchmaking system should work much, much better than it currently can.

 

*Originally servers would spin up dynamically, but have a fixed threat range assigned to them. As players entered and left, the actual threat range of the population would deviate from the assigned one. But more importantly, a few groups of high skill players would remain and drive out those experienced enough to quit the district and try for a different one, but not good enough to compete with those high skill players. Thus leaving only cannon fodder to those few groups.

At the time, threat was primarily (or maybe even exclusively) based on mission win-loss-ratio. Win a mission, threat goes up. Lose a mission, threat goes down.