Old weapon drop system

[Deathshow99 10]

I liked that mechanic, you had a choice to play with all kinds of guns from different players around the game. 

 

The system in short: basicly every time you die or kill an enemy, yours or his primary weapon and you would be able to pick it up but wouldn't be able to resupply it, so when you run out of ammo thats it.

Edited June 15, 2018 by Deathshow99

[Virgil 55]

I think it would be nice. It's a bit of shame that mechanic is only used for a SINGLE activity these days, and it gives a STAR 556 Love Gun with no mods, lol.

Edited June 15, 2018 by Virgil

[SpeedyCat 106]

Ähm.... this mechanic was only intended and implemented for the Anarchy event in the Anarchy districts. It is not a old mechanic as i know oO

[Songbearer 72]

It's an interesting mechanic but I think it should be up to the players to bring the correct weapons to the fight and to come prepared. The only part I really like and the reason why I'd use it is to try out legendaries I don't own if they're used against me.

Edited June 15, 2018 by Songbearer

[Spudinskes 41]

21 minutes ago, Songbearer said:

It's an interesting mechanic but I think it should be up to the players to bring the correct weapons to the fight and to come prepared. The only part I really like and the reason why I'd use it is to try out legendaries I don't own if they're used against me.

There's more to it than that. If a long range gunner is posted up on a high position that can't be killed easily from below (because he breaks line of sight when he's low or even has a shield down) you'll need to send in someone, probably a cqc gun, to kill him. After the cqc guy has killed the long range gunner he now has two choices, both of which waste precious time. He can go back down and run back into cqc where his gun will be effective, or take almost 15 seconds to lay down their ammo supply and switch to a long range gun. In the second scenario one can not always rely on their ammo supply being available, especially if they're not using premium.

 

Now if the long range gunner were to drop his gun after he died the cqc guy could have picked it up immediately and provide support from where he is. This is one thing that makes CSGO so adaptive. In a shooter a lot of things can happen in a split second and every moment of time wasted is a lost opportunity.

Edited June 15, 2018 by Spudinskes

[ElectroStingz 53]

I remember, the concept does bring a whole new tactical element to the game as pointed out by Spudinskes.

Someone camping on the roof in FC Baylan Shipping with an OSMAW, go up there, get it and return the favour.

Edited June 15, 2018 by ElectroStingz

[CommandantSteele 52]

From what I remember, this mechanic wasn't well liked when it was tried last due to, IIRC, the weapon pickups not reflecting on the scoreboard. So you could have someone on the scoreboard say the had an ACES SMG but then they sniped you with a HVR that they picked up from someone. If it wasn't that, then there was some other reason that people didn't like it. I remember complaining, at the very least.

 

I dunno. It probably needs refinement. I'd want to see it tested extensively to see if people actually like it or not.

[LaQuandra 91]

I think for a particular game mode it could be viable but I don’t want to see it in regular action districts. I think players should be forced to change their weapon if they choose to do so.

[ElectroStingz 53]

7 minutes ago, Freewind said:

From what I remember, this mechanic wasn't well liked when it was tried last due to, IIRC, the weapon pickups not reflecting on the scoreboard. So you could have someone on the scoreboard say the had an ACES SMG but then they sniped you with a HVR that they picked up from someone. If it wasn't that, then there was some other reason that people didn't like it. I remember complaining, at the very least.

 

I dunno. It probably needs refinement. I'd want to see it tested extensively to see if people actually like it or not.

I believe a lot of people didnt like the concept that they had paid for a premium weapon and now someone could pick it up and use it. Personally I see it as a way for premium players to share some of their items, with the possibility of future sales as a result.

[CommandantSteele 52]

2 minutes ago, ElectroStingz said:

I believe a lot of people didnt like the concept that they had paid for a premium weapon and now someone could pick it up and use it. Personally I see it as a way for premium players to share some of their items, with the possibility of future sales as a result.

I can actually sympathize with that. It reminds me of when people grab my car instead of their own car when both vehicles are relatively close. It's not "TEH END OF DE WUUUUURLD" but it's still kinda irritating.

Edited June 15, 2018 by Freewind

[Alani 475]

4 minutes ago, ElectroStingz said:

I believe a lot of people didnt like the concept that they had paid for a premium weapon and now someone could pick it up and use it. Personally I see it as a way for premium players to share some of their items, with the possibility of future sales as a result.

it was disliked because of how badly apb is unoptimized, when someone died their weapon dropped leading to constant stuttering when new items are being generated in front of your character and got worse when multiple people died.

 

the whole drop mechanic is still used in things like the christmas box weapons and the like as a way of keeping it in the game without destroying everyone's frame rate when new items are generated from death of players.

[Lord Cashpoint 269]

I really can't argue against the pick up mechanic enough. I felt it was a terrible addition to the game and I was relieved when it was removed.

 

The main problem is, as others have mentioned is that it allows players to carry more than one primary at a time, which is a really big problem for balance. If you choose to use a weapon like the OSMAW, that should come with certain advantages and drawbacks. Allowing people to pick up other weapons really messes with this concept. This is without even mentioning players having two copies of the same weapon, allowing them to have effectively double magazine capacity. As Spudinskes mentioned it also allows players to effectively take up advantageous positions with weapons that can't do it normally. You can use an SMG to storm a building, reach the top and immediately switch to a sniper. One of the most egregious problems with the pick-up system I found was if you killed a high value enemy such as a sniper, their team-mate could just immediately pick up their weapon. It was incredibly frustrating.

 

It's already bad enough we can't see what secondary weapons or grenades an enemy player has equipped. It's even worse with the weapon pick-up mechanic, because then you're effectively blind to what gun a player might be using. APB isn't exactly a game that prioritises being able to identify a weapon on sight, especially given that weapon mods are mostly invisible. Part of the core gameplay of APB is that you pick a single weapon which defines your role, and everyone can see what role you have picked (This is somewhat similar to how in a Battlefield game, players can see what weapons an enemy is using based on their class) If you want to change your weapon you have to make a sacrifice in some way. 

 

I would concede that weapon pick ups might be suited to districts such as Fight Club, where there are so many players that these problems don't really exist.

 

Edited June 15, 2018 by Lord Cashpoint

[Spudinskes 41]

16 minutes ago, LaQuandra said:

I think for a particular game mode it could be viable but I don’t want to see it in regular action districts. I think players should be forced to change their weapon if they choose to do so.

If the weapon you traded in disappears after picking up the one on the ground it would be balanced. I would want to see it in only regular action districts. This would add so much dynamic gameplay to the stale gunplay.

[Spudinskes 41]

9 minutes ago, Lord Cashpoint said:

I really can't argue against the pick up mechanic enough. I felt it was a terrible addition to the game and I was relieved when it was removed.

 

The main problem is, as others have mentioned is that it allows players to carry more than one primary at a time, which is a really big problem for balance. If you choose to use a weapon like the OSMAW, that should come with certain advantages and drawbacks. Allowing people to pick up other weapons really messes with this concept. This is without even mentioning players having two copies of the same weapon, allowing them to have effectively double magazine capacity. As Spudinskes mentioned it also allows players to effectively take up advantageous positions with weapons that can't do it normally. You can use an SMG to storm a building, reach the top and immediately switch to a sniper..

 

You can only swap your primary weapon, I'm pretty sure no one here thought of allowing your secondary slot to pick up primary guns. That would be broken for the reasons you've stated.

 

Being able to storm an smg and swap your gun for a sniper (your smg would disappear, it doesn't get put on the ground) would introduce so much dynamic gameplay. It's interesting that you see it as a bad thing. It's such an incredible feature in CSGO. I can't imagine not being able to switch up an mp5 for an awp and being forced to walk down long A on dust2 to take someone out in pit.

Edited June 15, 2018 by Spudinskes

[CommandantSteele 52]

1 minute ago, Spudinskes said:

You can only swap your primary weapon, I'm pretty sure no one here thought of allowing your secondary slot to pick up primary guns. That would be broken for the reasons you've stated.

 

Being able to storm an smg and swap your gun for a sniper (your smg would disappear, it doesn't get put on the ground) would introduce so much dynamic gameplay. It's interesting that you see it as a bad thing. It's such an incredible feature in CSGO. I can't imagine not being able to switch up an mp5 for an awp and being forced to walk down long A on dust2 to take someone out in pit.

Isn't CSGO a fundamentally different game though?

 

I think it's kinda weird that for something that drastically changes gameplay for everyone people are okay with it, but the salt that I experienced when I brought up MAYBE removing crouch spamming (Something that CSGO has also done.) was pretty intense.

 

Kinda strange, but w/e.

[Spudinskes 41]

1 minute ago, Freewind said:

Isn't CSGO a fundamentally different game though?

 

I think it's kinda weird that for something that drastically changes gameplay for everyone people are okay with it, but the salt that I experienced when I brought up MAYBE removing crouch spamming (Something that CSGO has also done.) was pretty intense.

 

Kinda strange, but w/e.

Absolutely it is a different game, but the feature would be even more useful in APB where there are rooftops and other areas that are difficult to get up to.

[Lord Cashpoint 269]

2 minutes ago, Spudinskes said:

You can only swap your primary weapon, I'm pretty sure no one here thought of allowing your secondary slot to pick up primary guns. That would be broken for the reasons you've stated.

 

Being able to storm an smg and swap your gun for a sniper (your smg would disappear, it doesn't get put on the ground) would introduce so much dynamic gameplay. It's interesting that you see it as a bad thing. It's such an incredible feature in CSGO. I can't imagine not being able to switch up an mp5 for an awp and being forced to walk down long A on dust2 to take someone out in pit. 

If I remember correctly, weapon pickups don't occupy a weapon slot, you just equip them on top of your existing weapons. Which means a player can drop his sniper rifle that he picked up and then equip his own gun without having to pick it off the floor. It also means you can't pick up items or swap to a secondary with a pick-up weapon equipped. You essentially carry 3 weapons. This may have changed but I'm fairly sure that's how it worked.

 

While the gameplay introduced might be more dynamic, I think that part of the experience of playing APB is that you somewhat have to plan ahead. So if you want to snipe people from a roof-top you need to get up there with a sniper equipped or switch when you get up there. All of these things take time, and since in-game time is often so limited this means you have to make decisions. Similarly if I take out the enemy sniper, I shouldn't expect the next guy behind to pick up the gun and be faced with the same problem. I understand what you are getting at, but I think in a game like CSGO where you don't have the opportunity to simply switch weapon on the fly, weapon pick ups make more sense. In APB where switching weapons is a designed mechanic, I think weapon pick ups erode part of the game uniqueness.

[Spudinskes 41]

15 minutes ago, Lord Cashpoint said:

If I remember correctly, weapon pickups don't occupy a weapon slot, you just equip them on top of your existing weapons. Which means a player can drop his sniper rifle that he picked up and then equip his own gun without having to pick it off the floor. It also means you can't pick up items or swap to a secondary with a pick-up weapon equipped. You essentially carry 3 weapons. This may have changed but I'm fairly sure that's how it worked.

 

While the gameplay introduced might be more dynamic, I think that part of the experience of playing APB is that you somewhat have to plan ahead. So if you want to snipe people from a roof-top you need to get up there with a sniper equipped or switch when you get up there. All of these things take time, and since in-game time is often so limited this means you have to make decisions. Similarly if I take out the enemy sniper, I shouldn't expect the next guy behind to pick up the gun and be faced with the same problem. I understand what you are getting at, but I think in a game like CSGO where you don't have the opportunity to simply switch weapon on the fly, weapon pick ups make more sense. In APB where switching weapons is a designed mechanic, I think weapon pick ups erode part of the game uniqueness.

Well I'm not exactly sure how the old system worked, but I would assume some common logic would be used when implementing this feature in prime time. This means only being able to swap out primaries for primaries, and the gun you traded in doesn't get put back on the ground. Also weapons disappear at the end of missions similar to how trial weapons do when time runs out.

 

"All of these things take time, and since in-game time is often so limited this means you have to make decisions..."

 

Since the player's original weapon would disappear once they pick up the sniper, the player would have to make a decision.

 

I can already tell we are both heavily cemented in our opinions. I prefer more adaptive and streamlined gameplay while you prefer a more gameplay that contains very consequential decisions. Similar to RPG games where whatever decision you make will lose you something in order to gain another.

 

Since both sides of this topic have their own opinions maybe this feature can be implemented in OTW or in a special district like open conflict. Once players experience this after it's been updated and tuned people can reconsider their opinions.

Edited June 15, 2018 by Spudinskes

[ElectroStingz 53]

Some old threads here.

https://forums-old.gamersfirst.com/topic/384664-why-people-dislike-the-weapon-drop-system-so-much/

https://forums-old.gamersfirst.com/topic/384509-should-keep-dropping-of-weapons-universal/

 

With the right refinement it could work out OK.

[Lord Cashpoint 269]

1 minute ago, Spudinskes said:

Well I'm not exactly sure how the old system worked, but I would assume some common logic would be used when implementing this feature in prime time.

I would not rely on such an assumption. You can test in game right now if you have any valentines boxes lying around. I am fairly confident weapon pick ups do not replace your equipped weapons. Also I'm fairly sure pick up weapons don't disappear unless they have been lying on the ground for a long time, or a player drops it after holding it for a long time. They literally are pick ups that you can use and drop whenever you feel like.

[neophobia 216]

41 minutes ago, ElectroStingz said:

I believe a lot of people didnt like the concept that they had paid for a premium weapon and now someone could pick it up and use it. Personally I see it as a way for premium players to share some of their items, with the possibility of future sales as a result.

As pointed out by others - no, that was not the thing.

It was the implementation, no scoreboard, doesnt occupy a weaponslot, you don't swap the weapon but just gain it additionally

 

I agree, it would be good that premium weapons would be shared this way - because people could see that they aren't any better than f2p.

Also, sales of premium things are what keep the game going.

 

All in all the concept was quite fun and cool.

Keep it as a no resupply weapon though.

 

It also promotes playstyles like in CS:GO like with the CZ-Auto (minus the economy bit (which is the biggest factor but w/e)), bring a weapon that isn't too great in general but kills a person quickly in some scenarios - and just be able to use it from there.

This can be both positive and negative:

1 hour ago, Spudinskes said:

There's more to it than that. If a long range gunner is posted up on a high position that can't be killed easily from below (because he breaks line of sight when he's low or even has a shield down) you'll need to send in someone, probably a cqc gun, to kill him.

While this sounds good and all, it just promotes to rush people instead of having proper tactics - and then you instantly have the advantage. No previous positioning etc required.

Of course it mostly punishs bad positiong and tactics then.

I like the "give them some of their own medicine" bit but ye. It isn't all too great.

 

It isn't even wasted time anyway, since you just took the sniper down who was a pain. It's invested time.

 

Idk. I would like to see a come back - but probably not in (regular) mission districts - keep it in FC e.g.

Weekly rotating mission districts with modifiers? That would be cool - to me. But splitting the playerbase... uh.

 

Polishing it also sounds like a lot of effort. The scoreboards are not too great as-is so I doubt this would come without issues.

[Spudinskes 41]

4 minutes ago, Lord Cashpoint said:

I would not rely on such an assumption. You can test in game right now if you have any valentines boxes lying around. I am fairly confident weapon pick ups do not replace your equipped weapons. Also I'm fairly sure pick up weapons don't disappear unless they have been lying on the ground for a long time, or a player drops it after holding it for a long time. They literally are pick ups that you can use and drop whenever you feel like.

I'm not talking about how it is currently implemented. There are issues like weapons not actually replacing your weapon. If it were to be implemented it into the main game it would absolutely have to replace your primary, not just give you an extra.

Edited June 15, 2018 by Spudinskes

[PoshDoll 93]

we talked about this man. we did.

[vsb 6171]

5 minutes ago, Spudinskes said:

Well I'm not exactly sure how the old system worked, but I would assume some common logic would be used when implementing this feature in prime time. This means only being able to swap out primaries for primaries, and the gun you traded in doesn't get put back on the ground. Also weapons disappear at the end of missions similar to how trial weapons do when time runs out.

 

"All of these things take time, and since in-game time is often so limited this means you have to make decisions..."

 

Since the player's original weapon would disappear once they pick up the sniper, the player would have to make a decision.

 

I can already tell we are both heavily cemented in our opinions. I prefer more adaptive and streamlined gameplay while you prefer a more gameplay that contains very consequential decisions. Similar to RPG games where whatever decision you make will lose you something in order to gain another.

what are the limits on this though? if it’s the old system you can drop the pickup gun and immediately have a different primary 

even if you make it so that your current primary is swapped completely, you’ve negated the balancing factor of the time it takes to switch weapons, which while trivialized somewhat by ammo consumables and carspawners, is still an important balancing factor in apb

 

the problem i have with adding more “adaptive streamlined gameplay” is that apb is almost entirely based around a fake rpg class system

 

[BrandonBranderson 672]

I liked it to a certain degree.  I think it should only be active in fight clubs and Anarchy districts though.