Nagletz's Weapon Balance Feedback

[Nagletz 219]

Hello.

Since i hope to hurry up the weapon balance, and see my beloved non-meta\underpowered\"just bad" guns adjusted, i wanna share my opinion on recent changes.

First of all, some disclaimers:

• First, i'm a legit silver (for now), i'm playing on bronze server, and only sometimes in silver ones, and never on gold ones (way too impossible to play there  ).
• Second, as follows from the previous note, all of these guns were tested on bronze servers, but as i observed, most of high-end silvers and low-end golds (iirc) play here, so don't think i was matched against noobs only (just IMO).
• Third, i don't play meta guns (and changed guns also) much, and my conclusions about some of them may be wrong for you, but again, that's just IMO.
• Fourth, i'm not gonna repeat the numbers like "bloom delay 0.1, ammo count 400" or so, mostly just opinion and suggestions.
• Fifth, my English is bad

Now i can get to the point:

• N-TEC 7 "Ursus": Still playable enough, burst-shooting, tap-shooting is still a thing, spraying - never was good tbh, and become worse, but still helpful in stress situations, but requires more... luck. RNG was always a thing, but don't sure Ursus was needed like so.
• OCA EW-626: Become new pmg, but haven't seen people killing someone with it at max range, and didn't managed to do so myself.
• OCA EW-626 "Whisper": Still can't understand how default OCA and this one have different effective range, but yet again, no one plays on such ranges with them. Still good gun.
• Colby PMG: Really needed nerf, thanks, but still usable, thanks, BUT accuracy should not be touched, i have feel that someone who was making changes just wanted to burn PMG alive if it ever existed, lol.
• Obeya CAP 40: Changes is so small that i can't even recognize them, don't even know what to say... It was a good gun, but now it's a bit better.
• FAR: Unnecessary changes. Now the difference between changed N-TEC 5's and FAR's max bloom is not so noticeable as it was. I'd prefer the N-TEC 5 over it, and we all know why. As an addition, i suggest buff FAR at other place: Range, ROF, accuracy, but only one of it.
• N-TEC 5: Was a good gun, become a better gun. With no reasonable alternative, as follows from previous note. Leave it as it is.
• ATAC: Same as goes with PMG, it was needed to it. With a slight disgust i tried it, and all i see is worse bloom which make people actually aim. But people still use it. And it is usable.
• Colby SNR 850: Not gonna lie, no one uses JG-snubbing on bronze, but i had pleasure to observe such tactic in FC and had mixed feelings about it, why someone even need to kill with secondary, main reason that people play FC - role maxing, and Gunslinger never was a necessary role to me. Can't see reason that people used this mechanic. Back to the point: it needs to be buffed somehow as soon as possible, no one used it except newbies back in 2011. Necessary nerf but without buff. Why?
• OBIR: I can agree that reserve ammo change was reasonable (less camping), but, bolt timer is a... terrible mechanic. On all weapons. It literally makes you helpless in cqc, in most of situation i was in. Revert it.
• Stabba PIG: As was discussed before, it didn't needed such change and im 100% agreed on it. Revert. If you want to make to prevent people and make not skill-based mechanic more skill-based (lmao), maybe look at the Percussion Grenades first? Revert it. 

• N-HVR 243 'Scout': No one asked these changes, but i'm happy with them. Also it become more newbie-friendly, and silver-friendly (like me  ). Also it makes 243-SD less underpowered as it was before. I'm glad, leave it like this.

• N-HVR 762: Unnecessary nerf, without necessary buff. Revert it either bring us back jumpshooting and quickswitching (or remove bolt timer at least). Otherwise i can't see the point of using it instead of Scout. Still good damage? Come on, i can't even say "85" to my teammates anymore

• S1-NA 'Manic': Still usable, but i can't say when i get it in my hands next time. Why nerf the gun which was not even a meta? It's thing was good jumpshoot accuracy. Really can't get why. Revert it, pls.

• Joker SR-15 Carbine: Big thanks for increasing the reserve ammo count, but it's accuracy was good enough to compete OSCAR before, isn't it? Leave it and don't touch anymore.

• ACT 44: I refuse to understand, why cut off it's effective range? If equip time is understandable for me (but still unnecessary ngl), range shouldn't be touched. Revert it.

• Colby RSA: Same unnecessary changes, especially accuracy while walking: it was really hard to me to shoot someone while peeking of the cover. Revert it.

• ISSR-B: Still a good gun, yet again, unnecessary small changes, but i can thank you for that very smally buffy . Leave it as it is now.

• Jumpshooting Accuracy Changes: none of these guns needed this, none of these guns used so. Disagreed.

• Ammo Capacity Changes: was mathematically reasonable, but why nerfing....SBSR? FAR? Any reasons?

As a conclusion: Most of the nerfs was unnecessary, either not needed so. I'm not really a meta gun user (SBSR Coroner is my main gun, imagine that), but never liked when you guys touch something what should not be touched, maybe you should make a little poll for any of changes? Just to be sure that players allow them. I know, Silver's opinion and Gold's opinions can differ very much, but we all people, didn't we? APB is not a perfect game, and i can't remember when it was, players was always divided in opinions, and misunderstanding become a common case here. Ngl i was being toxic myself too, up to now  But i think we deserved a little chance to make APB we dreamed of. Let's not waste it. Thanks Little Orbit for all their work and effort spent on the game, i hope you will listen not just the only ones you listen to now, and pay a little attention for us, average players.

Thank you for your attention, tried my best to explain all my thoughts.

Nagletz.

[claude 223]

1 hour ago, Nagletz said:

First, i'm a legit silver (for now), i'm playing on bronze server, and only sometimes in silver ones, and never on gold ones (way too impossible to play there  ).

 

1 hour ago, Nagletz said:

N-TEC 7 "Ursus": never was good tbh, and become worse

huh

[vsb 6174]

2 hours ago, claude said:

 

huh

it checks out sir, no "kind of a big deal" on record

 

 

[PingOVER9000 189]

I guess as everyone is free to give its opinion... but seem some weapons u didnt use a lot pre-nerf and after the new patch

 

Anyway Below a rapresentation of me waiting for @Kempington(or anyone of his same opinion) show me the video or evidence I asked some weeks ago about the "presumed" Pig OPness and some other weapon's  got nerfed" before the patch.

 

 

Somethig is telling me it will be a long wait v.v 

 

 

Edited September 30, 2020 by PingOVER9000

[wHisHi 206]

I disagree with you, because I trust SPCT and their years of experience more. I personally play since 2012. 

Edited September 30, 2020 by wHisHi

[R3ACT3M 489]

17 hours ago, Nagletz said:

• ACT 44: I refuse to understand, why cut off it's effective range? If equip time is understandable for me (but still unnecessary ngl), range shouldn't be touched. Revert it.

• Colby RSA: Same unnecessary changes, especially accuracy while walking: it was really hard to me to shoot someone while peeking of the cover. Revert it.

agreed

ACT44 (golden one) was so hard for me to play to start with so i switched to the rsa which also got nerfed 

now, the meta is that 3 round burst pistol

[Motorola 107]

i agree with some of the op's suggestions except the carbine buff, carbine sucked before... yeah it was used alot but it still sucked.

 

oca > pmg now.... i liked it when it was closer to oca = pmg and both could be used

 

obir bolt timer sucks, less ammo is really nice... makes changing to it way less slower and restocking nades etc

 

ursus was really good before... now that the ntec is usable again im just using this instead and havent really given the new ursus change any playtime. the little i played with it made it slower to shoot in actual games vs players though.... if you tap too fast it becomes really inaccurate. its like they balanced it around it having ir3 and didnt think about the players who dont use ir3 in ursus... i myself prefered mobility sling cause i didnt like how ir3 just turned it into a better obeya... now full auto and bursting is not a realistic way to play with ursus anymore. gutted

 

scout change is nice, now no one is safe even clotting agent 3 players. and as you mentioned the silenced version is decent to use now. might have to buy a reaper

 

not a fan of the manic jump shot accuracy nerf... and bigger crosshair/bloom etc... again its like they made these balance changes for people who only use hunting sight + ir3 on this gun... ruined the gun. this gun used to be perfect with just mobility sling and no other mods.... not possible anymore.

 

pig needed to be changed but after playing with the new pig, its pretty trash now. if they wish to keep it at 650 stamina they should really make it a 2 shot magazine with a slow fire rate that is quicker than a reload. or make the stamina damage slightly higher and nerf perc stamina damage by a ton (which will also promote players to use STUN nades over them with all LTL)

 

act44, snub, rsa nerfs are all dumb and not needed and should all be reverted.

 

agreed with FAR change... with ntec being buffed again there is little to no reason to use far over it anymore. again this change just removes options from players, instead of 2-3 assault rifles now we only have 1 realistic rifle to use... the rest is "meme guns"

[Nagletz 219]

17 hours ago, claude said:

 

huh

I meant that Ursus's spraying does not give any accurate shots, due to high bloom.

Also:

18 hours ago, Nagletz said:

Fifth, my English is bad

Uh-huh

[lilpiggy 30]

PIG, Snub and DMR-SD are so useless. They need to be buffed.

[Havana 216]

On 9/29/2020 at 10:05 AM, Nagletz said:

Hello.

Since i hope to hurry up the weapon balance, and see my beloved non-meta\underpowered\"just bad" guns adjusted, i wanna share my opinion on recent changes.

First of all, some disclaimers:

• First, i'm a legit silver (for now), i'm playing on bronze server, and only sometimes in silver ones, and never on gold ones (way too impossible to play there  ).
• Second, as follows from the previous note, all of these guns were tested on bronze servers, but as i observed, most of high-end silvers and low-end golds (iirc) play here, so don't think i was matched against noobs only (just IMO).
• Third, i don't play meta guns (and changed guns also) much, and my conclusions about some of them may be wrong for you, but again, that's just IMO.
• Fourth, i'm not gonna repeat the numbers like "bloom delay 0.1, ammo count 400" or so, mostly just opinion and suggestions.
• Fifth, my English is bad

Now i can get to the point:

• N-TEC 7 "Ursus": Still playable enough, burst-shooting, tap-shooting is still a thing, spraying - never was good tbh, and become worse, but still helpful in stress situations, but requires more... luck. RNG was always a thing, but don't sure Ursus was needed like so.
• OCA EW-626: Become new pmg, but haven't seen people killing someone with it at max range, and didn't managed to do so myself.
• OCA EW-626 "Whisper": Still can't understand how default OCA and this one have different effective range, but yet again, no one plays on such ranges with them. Still good gun.
• Colby PMG: Really needed nerf, thanks, but still usable, thanks, BUT accuracy should not be touched, i have feel that someone who was making changes just wanted to burn PMG alive if it ever existed, lol.
• Obeya CAP 40: Changes is so small that i can't even recognize them, don't even know what to say... It was a good gun, but now it's a bit better.
• FAR: Unnecessary changes. Now the difference between changed N-TEC 5's and FAR's max bloom is not so noticeable as it was. I'd prefer the N-TEC 5 over it, and we all know why. As an addition, i suggest buff FAR at other place: Range, ROF, accuracy, but only one of it.
• N-TEC 5: Was a good gun, become a better gun. With no reasonable alternative, as follows from previous note. Leave it as it is.
• ATAC: Same as goes with PMG, it was needed to it. With a slight disgust i tried it, and all i see is worse bloom which make people actually aim. But people still use it. And it is usable.
• Colby SNR 850: Not gonna lie, no one uses JG-snubbing on bronze, but i had pleasure to observe such tactic in FC and had mixed feelings about it, why someone even need to kill with secondary, main reason that people play FC - role maxing, and Gunslinger never was a necessary role to me. Can't see reason that people used this mechanic. Back to the point: it needs to be buffed somehow as soon as possible, no one used it except newbies back in 2011. Necessary nerf but without buff. Why?
• OBIR: I can agree that reserve ammo change was reasonable (less camping), but, bolt timer is a... terrible mechanic. On all weapons. It literally makes you helpless in cqc, in most of situation i was in. Revert it.
• Stabba PIG: As was discussed before, it didn't needed such change and im 100% agreed on it. Revert. If you want to make to prevent people and make not skill-based mechanic more skill-based (lmao), maybe look at the Percussion Grenades first? Revert it. 

• N-HVR 243 'Scout': No one asked these changes, but i'm happy with them. Also it become more newbie-friendly, and silver-friendly (like me  ). Also it makes 243-SD less underpowered as it was before. I'm glad, leave it like this.

• N-HVR 762: Unnecessary nerf, without necessary buff. Revert it either bring us back jumpshooting and quickswitching (or remove bolt timer at least). Otherwise i can't see the point of using it instead of Scout. Still good damage? Come on, i can't even say "85" to my teammates anymore

• S1-NA 'Manic': Still usable, but i can't say when i get it in my hands next time. Why nerf the gun which was not even a meta? It's thing was good jumpshoot accuracy. Really can't get why. Revert it, pls.

• Joker SR-15 Carbine: Big thanks for increasing the reserve ammo count, but it's accuracy was good enough to compete OSCAR before, isn't it? Leave it and don't touch anymore.

• ACT 44: I refuse to understand, why cut off it's effective range? If equip time is understandable for me (but still unnecessary ngl), range shouldn't be touched. Revert it.

• Colby RSA: Same unnecessary changes, especially accuracy while walking: it was really hard to me to shoot someone while peeking of the cover. Revert it.

• ISSR-B: Still a good gun, yet again, unnecessary small changes, but i can thank you for that very smally buffy . Leave it as it is now.

• Jumpshooting Accuracy Changes: none of these guns needed this, none of these guns used so. Disagreed.

• Ammo Capacity Changes: was mathematically reasonable, but why nerfing....SBSR? FAR? Any reasons?

As a conclusion: Most of the nerfs was unnecessary, either not needed so. I'm not really a meta gun user (SBSR Coroner is my main gun, imagine that), but never liked when you guys touch something what should not be touched, maybe you should make a little poll for any of changes? Just to be sure that players allow them. I know, Silver's opinion and Gold's opinions can differ very much, but we all people, didn't we? APB is not a perfect game, and i can't remember when it was, players was always divided in opinions, and misunderstanding become a common case here. Ngl i was being toxic myself too, up to now  But i think we deserved a little chance to make APB we dreamed of. Let's not waste it. Thanks Little Orbit for all their work and effort spent on the game, i hope you will listen not just the only ones you listen to now, and pay a little attention for us, average players.

Thank you for your attention, tried my best to explain all my thoughts.

Nagletz.

110% AGREEMENT!

[Dezire 107]

On 9/29/2020 at 5:05 PM, Nagletz said:

N-HVR 762: Unnecessary nerf, without necessary buff. Revert it either bring us back jumpshooting and quickswitching (or remove bolt timer at least). Otherwise i can't see the point of using it instead of Scout. Still good damage? Come on, i can't even say "85" to my teammates anymore

bro what? the gun is still busted. Its still TOO good TOO easily. It does not belong in the game at all. Nerf it to the ground or remove it.

[SkittyM 287]

On 9/30/2020 at 2:04 AM, R3ACT3M said:

now, the meta is that 3 round burst pistol

Hate to break it to you but the RFP has been hot trash for over a year now.  It's the farthest thing from a meta weapon right now.

[R3ACT3M 489]

47 minutes ago, SkittyM said:

Hate to break it to you but the RFP has been hot trash for over a year now.  It's the farthest thing from a meta weapon right now.

Thats my point, people who used the rsa or act are now using the rfp. Ive been seeing it pop up a lot more recently.

[CookiePuss 5382]

20 minutes ago, R3ACT3M said:

Thats my point, people who used the rsa or act are now using the rfp. Ive been seeing it pop up a lot more recently.

Well you should tell them to stop using it.

Unless fighting them, in which case you should encourage them to continue using it. 

[R3ACT3M 489]

2 hours ago, CookiePuss said:

Well you should tell them to stop using it.

Unless fighting them, in which case you should encourage them to continue using it. 

lol, I used it a couple times since the nerf. Its a nice side arm if you're shit at rapid tap firing.

[SkittyM 287]

2 hours ago, R3ACT3M said:

Thats my point, people who used the rsa or act are now using the rfp. Ive been seeing it pop up a lot more recently.

Should tell them to get a 45AP.  Direct upgrade over the RFP.

[Nagletz 219]

8 hours ago, Dezire said:

bro what? the gun is still busted. Its still TOO good TOO easily. It does not belong in the game at all. Nerf it to the ground or remove it.

I can say the same about Scout. 

Why nerf and remove op guns, if you can buff underpowered guns to compete them?

[PingOVER9000 189]

40 minutes ago, SkittyM said:

Should tell them to get a 45AP.  Direct upgrade over the RFP.

 

.....

I dont want to accusate in particolar someone, but maybe you should tell too who give the ""suggestions"" to ""balacing" the weapon to from a pocket obir to a total hot trash using your words since over a year at  now.....

 

But at least I  see a improving than last year,  the opinion of "someone" until some time ago  were completely different and defend strenuously telling the RFP  now it was perfectly balanced 

 

 

Edited October 3, 2020 by PingOVER9000

[R3ACT3M 489]

1 hour ago, SkittyM said:

Should tell them to get a 45AP.  Direct upgrade over the RFP.

Look at what i said (it’s literally right above your comment)

[SkittyM 287]

1 hour ago, PingOVER9000 said:

 

.....

I dont want to accusate in particolar someone, but maybe you should tell too who give the ""suggestions"" to ""balacing" the weapon to from a pocket obir to a total hot trash using your words since over a year at  now.....

 

But at least I  see a improving than last year,  the opinion of "someone" until some time ago  were completely different and defend strenuously telling the RFP  now it was perfectly balanced 

 

 

The RFP was a result of early tests and just general learning of how things should go.  Though i do not know why the RFP has been stuck in its current state for over a year.  Lost track of how many times it was brought up and swept.  It's not anyone in particulars fault however.

[PingOVER9000 189]

1 hour ago, SkittyM said:

The RFP was a result of early tests and just general learning of how things should go.  Though i do not know why the RFP has been stuck in its current state for over a year.  Lost track of how many times it was brought up and swept.  It's not anyone in particulars fault however.

 

,,,,,

 

7 hours ago, SkittyM said:

Hate to break it to you but the RFP has been hot trash for over a year now.  It's the farthest thing from a meta weapon right now.

 

I guess you have already written  known the answer , despite some drawing a blank there and somewhere... 

 

Anyway closing the joke. for a moment..  if in future you may give some suggestions  to "someone" for giving some dignity to the RFP it may sound very nice....

 

Unfortunately RFP is not the only one of the last weapons has losted its chair in the meta tier for passing directly to "hot trash" tier  after a weapon balance, sometimes I give the idea  seem almost are silvers with a pair of hours are testing and balancing the weapons... absurd

[Zolerox 564]

3 hours ago, R3ACT3M said:

Look at what i said (it’s literally right above your comment)

Fighting RFPS became alot easier after all the changes, The "expose" time with burst weapons makes it alot easier to kill a rfp in a pure cqc fight a 45. firerate will never lose to a rfp at max rof

[Dezire 107]

18 hours ago, Nagletz said:

I can say the same about Scout. 

Why nerf and remove op guns, if you can buff underpowered guns to compete them?

scout is fine, buff the jumpshooting and make it the only  sniper in the game. The HVR is impossible to balance, nerf it too much and it gets overshadowed by the scout, nerf it too little and its insanely broken. remove it. It doesnt have a place.

Edited October 4, 2020 by Dezire

[vsb 6174]

5 minutes ago, Dezire said:

scout is fine, buff the jumpshooting and make it the only  sniper in the game. The HVR is impossible to balance, nerf it too much and it gets overshadowed by the scout, nerf it too little and its insanely broken. remove it. It doesnt have a place.

if the scout had been left alone, the hvr damage nerfed to 750, and the stupid accuracy-based-damage gimmick removed, then i feel both guns would have room to operate in their own niches

[KyoukiDotExe 231]

Thanks for the detailed post, agreed on most points.

 

I'd like to mention two points though:

- ACT44 is still a great gun.

- RSA is a better gun but the ACT44 outshines it class still. But using the RSA on longer ranges is very nice, better than the ACT44 and you need 1 less bullet.