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This is becoming very silly, it's been nerfed 100 times, go ahead, nerf it another 100, personally I don't care anymore because I don't use it anymore, there are many better choices, sad the iconic AK-47 is no longer a choice

 

If you want to add something to the game, look at Oscar first, it breaks multiple weapons, then buff other weapons to make PMG not the only viable option for that range (OCA, C9, Norseman), then there is SBSR & Oblivion don't stand a chance vs other snipers.

Misery doesn't stand a chance against anything, maybe not even against some secondaries.

 

Lastly RFP pistol, it certainly needed a nerf back then, it was a primary weapon not secondary, and even excelled at long & close range, but now it's way too weak & innacurate

I think it could use an accuracy buff, maybe even a damage one, as long as it drops off quickly not to allow it to be that effective long range

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Honestly the joker carbine on paper isn't far from a ntec just a few meters really....

The only difference it the very few meters in range and the fire rate , which I mean if you are used to its pattern isn't much...but lets go back to the ntec and how its super op

 

This game is legit 70% Cover / 30% Aim

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10 minutes ago, Fruitini said:

the only difference it the very few meters in range and the fire rate

and the accuracy

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Posted (edited)

It was always supposed to be more of a mid range weapon than it was, which it is now, but the problem before was it could be used too well cqc too which was honestly just wrong, even if it was very good. Jumping around corners with the n-tec was just silly, no matter how much people tried to say it took skill to do that. It didn't, k? OK. there is a secondary weapon slot for a reason also.

It's fine now. And the crosshair bloom/accuracy stuff... what's the problem? control your rate of fire. It's not an atac.

I approve of this message.

 

 

Edited by Cr0

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Posted (edited)

 

On 6/6/2020 at 1:52 PM, Flaws said:

All fine here, guys. I see no issues whatsoever! N-TEC is totally 100% fine now!

ZGS9Bn9.jpg

 

smfh

 

On 6/7/2020 at 5:20 AM, Noob_Guardian said:

Those reticles look way off, i just went in game and looked at out of mm and in mm accuracy firing and not firing for max bloom to compare and none of the gun's (STAR, NTEC, FAR) reticles look close to those images being shown. Are those prenerf? NTEC images? Mods on the weapons?

 

(Maybe they look off cause my screen size ingame in comparison to the picture, that's my only guess)

 

I did however notice that if your camera is zoomed out more, your reticle shows less accuracy while jumping out of MM than if zoomed in.

 

Dunno, probably 5 years. Not that you can prove me wrong anyways. 🤥

 

 

 

About testing the bloom matter... for a comparing/better understanding what it may useful to know it's the distance....

 

Edited by PingOVER9000
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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, PingOVER9000 said:

About testing the bloom matter... for a comparing/better understanding what it may useful to know it's the distance....

That is irrelevant. I'm not showing off a single weapon's bloom, I am comparing between 3 weapons. Distance does not matter in this test.

Edited by Flaws

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Do people not realise that reticles show accuracy at a 10m range.

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25 minutes ago, Cr0 said:

It was always supposed to be more of a mid range weapon than it was, which it is now, but the problem before was it could be used too well cqc too which was honestly just wrong, even if it was very good. Jumping around corners with the n-tec was just silly, no matter how much people tried to say it took skill to do that. It didn't, k? OK. there is a secondary weapon slot for a reason also.

It's fine now. And the crosshair bloom/accuracy stuff... what's the problem? control your rate of fire. It's not an atac.

I approve of this message.

 

 

 

You mean what the FAR can do? Y'know the jump shot around corners? That's not even exclusive to the NTEC. This is an ARCADE shooter, btw. That means stuff like trick shots/cool stuff is like... desirable? So jump shotting is one of those flair things. But even if you argue it should not be a thing, if that's the case then they would need to nerf that on EVERY gun that can do it reliably now. 

Really stupid way to balance, basing off of whining like this. Btw your bloom argument shows how ignorant you are, I guess I'm wasting my time trying to explain anything to you. It's an endless cycle of people who have no clue what they're talking about discussing balance changes. Great.... 

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Abduct / Devote said:

 

 

You mean what the FAR can do? Y'know the jump shot around corners? That's not even exclusive to the NTEC. This is an ARCADE shooter, btw. That means stuff like trick shots/cool stuff is like... desirable? So jump shotting is one of those flair things. But even if you argue it should not be a thing, if that's the case then they would need to nerf that on EVERY gun that can do it reliably now. 

Really stupid way to balance, basing off of whining like this. Btw your bloom argument shows how ignorant you are, I guess I'm wasting my time trying to explain anything to you. It's an endless cycle of people who have no clue what they're talking about discussing balance changes. Great.... 

 

If you didn't right away start calling me ignorant etc then I'd perhaps feel like explaining more.

Can't be bothered.

 

Edited by Cr0

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4 hours ago, Cr0 said:

It was always supposed to be more of a mid range weapon than it was, which it is now, but the problem before was it could be used too well cqc too which was honestly just wrong, even if it was very good. Jumping around corners with the n-tec was just silly, no matter how much people tried to say it took skill to do that. It didn't, k? OK. there is a secondary weapon slot for a reason also.

It's fine now. And the crosshair bloom/accuracy stuff... what's the problem? control your rate of fire. It's not an atac.

I approve of this message.

 

Except no one is saying otherwise, most of us are just "trying to explain" that the FAR and other ARs are actually better than the N-TEC now, while having a much lower skill ceiling. It's literally all about holding LMB in close range, even while jumping, the very thing that was nerfed on the N-TEC was and still is much more reliable on the FAR and other guns.

 

I hope this concept is not hard to understand, and if it is, I'm terribly sorry.

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Posted (edited)

 

19 hours ago, RespectThis said:

Borus dude what? Why would we be talked about the scoped ntec at all? Really? Its been about the base ntec this whole time. Like it always has been. Also why wouldn't he be using marksmen mode while jumping? What ntec player is jumpshotting without adsing? You should have known that the moment flaws pointed it out. Let alone as a "knowledgeable" player...

Please read below

 

On 6/7/2020 at 5:59 AM, Flaws said:

There's literally a pre-nerf N-TEC in the game and no silver bats an eye

 

 

13 hours ago, Flaws said:

What? No, I mean the FAR. Its better than pre-nerf N-TEC at the exact things the N-TEC got nerfed for.

 

 

He's calling the FAR a "prenerf ntec". Like the F***? It's nothing like the NTEC and never was, its got a smaller mag, lower bloom recovery, more base accuracy, more CQC capabilities.

 

The FAR is functionally different from the NTEC.

 

Maybe the NTEC got nerfed to further the "difference" between NTEC and FAR/STAR in cqc? Just because "NTEC" got nerfed for something doesn't mean every other weapon is going nor should get nerfed the same way, because every weapon serves a different intended niche and range. I do agree, FAR should have leases like the STAR and NTEC built into contacts for unlock so every player can get it aside from holidays, joker store, and armas.

 

39 minutes ago, swft said:

 

Except no one is saying otherwise, most of us are just "trying to explain" that the FAR and other ARs are actually better than the N-TEC now, while having a much lower skill ceiling. It's literally all about holding LMB in close range, even while jumping, the very thing that was nerfed on the N-TEC was and still is much more reliable on the FAR and other guns.

 

I hope this concept is not hard to understand, and if it is, I'm terribly sorry.

If the FAR and STAR was so much "better" than the NTEC, it'd be like the C-9 all over again. It isn't. There's a drastic difference between the NTEC and FAR. The FAR is MUCH more like the STAR than an NTEC.

 

I don't understand why the cqc abilities were touched on the NTEC while the midrange were left untouched. However it seems clear that the intent was to make the NTEC worse in CQC to open up the niche more for STAR/FAR while leaving NTEC better at midrange. Giving players a choice between "good at 0-40m" vs "5/10-60"m

 

Edited by Noob_Guardian
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Posted (edited)
48 minutes ago, Noob_Guardian said:

He's calling the FAR a "prenerf ntec". Like the F***? It's nothing like the NTEC and never was, its got a smaller mag, lower bloom recovery, more base accuracy, more CQC capabilities.

 

The FAR is functionally different from the NTEC.

 

Maybe the NTEC got nerfed to further the "difference" between NTEC and FAR/STAR in cqc? Just because "NTEC" got nerfed for something doesn't mean every other weapon is going nor should get nerfed the same way, because every weapon serves a different intended niche and range. I do agree, FAR should have leases like the STAR and NTEC built into contacts for unlock so every player can get it aside from holidays, joker store, and armas.

 

If the FAR and STAR was so much "better" than the NTEC, it'd be like the C-9 all over again. It isn't. There's a drastic difference between the NTEC and FAR. The FAR is MUCH more like the STAR than an NTEC.

 

I don't understand why the cqc abilities were touched on the NTEC while the midrange were left untouched. However it seems clear that the intent was to make the NTEC worse in CQC to open up the niche more for STAR/FAR while leaving NTEC better at midrange. Giving players a choice between "good at 0-40m" vs "5/10-60"m

 

Mag size does NOT change the functionality of a weapon.

 

What? Thats a terrible reasoning. People cried about it when both the other AR's can do it just as efficiently. Some real backwards logic. Got nerfed for something? Borus what didn't it get nerfed for?. Meanwhile the Far which actually does preform pretty close to the ntec can still do all these things. A few minor differences. Also you claim ever weapon serves a different intended niche and range. So then why did the ntec which was in the base game become the one to be constantly nerfed when new guns that were added didn't work well? Sounds more like you're trying to make niches. The Far and Star can perform well even when the ntec was at its prime. People as i said in my previous post refuse to view the ntec as anything but "OP". Why? Because they won't sit down and actually learn to play the guns. They just think that you slap the ntec on and win. 

 

The Far more so than the Star wasn't so much better. Its a strong gun yes. But isn't very accessible. And no. It really isn't that much more like the Star. Its really more of a middle ground if anything.

 

You really think the cqc was nerfed to make a niche for the star and far? Thats a good joke. Because players pick the Star and Far for cqc capabilities... lol. Yes lets have the ntec be a mid range weapon with its large bloom jump when you can just use any other assault rifle. This actually reduces choice by nerfing the ntec as much as it has been. As i said in my other post you aren't thinking about these new players you care about so much who really only have access to two ARs. The Ntec and the Star. The ntec in its current state is awful and undesirable. As for the Star well can't say many people particularly like it that much. It just doesn't feel that great to use. Also all these choices you're opening up is a whole lot of PMGs and Shotguns. Great choices.

Edited by RespectThis

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Cr0 said:

 

If you didn't right away start calling me ignorant etc then I'd perhaps feel like explaining more.

Can't be bothered.

 

I called you what you are. You can't bother because you don't know how to argue your points, since it's gonna be the same thing I've been reading from 2 others. Good job admitting you can't prove your own talking points.

 

Also I didn't call you ignorant til the second half of my post, it wasn't right away. Guess dyslexic too. 

Edited by Abduct / Devote

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Noob_Guardian said:

If the FAR and STAR was so much "better" than the NTEC, it'd be like the C-9 all over again. It isn't. There's a drastic difference between the NTEC and FAR. The FAR is MUCH more like the STAR than an NTEC.

 

I don't understand why the cqc abilities were touched on the NTEC while the midrange were left untouched. However it seems clear that the intent was to make the NTEC worse in CQC to open up the niche more for STAR/FAR while leaving NTEC better at midrange. Giving players a choice between "good at 0-40m" vs "5/10-60"m

 

 

Yes, the FAR feels more like the STAR, except its TTK is exactly the same as the N-TEC, but I don't recall saying the opposite. However, that doesn't mean that the jumpshotting nerf shouldn't be applied to these guns too.

 

Also, like RespectThis said, you don't choose an AR based on its CQC abilities, well, actually, now you do.

Edited by swft

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15 hours ago, RespectThis said:

Mag size does NOT change the functionality of a weapon. Also the far doesn't have nearly as much bloom as the ntec has as shown in flaw's pictures. 

 

What? Thats a terrible reasoning. People cried about it when both the other AR's can do it just as efficiently. Some real backwards logic. Got nerfed for something? Borus what didn't it get nerfed for?. Meanwhile the Far which actually does preform pretty close to the ntec can still do all these things. A few minor differences. Also you claim ever weapon serves a different intended niche and range. So then why did the ntec which was in the base game become the one to be constantly nerfed when new guns that were added didn't work well? Sounds more like you're trying to make niches. The Far and Star can perform well even when the ntec was at its prime. People as i said in my previous post refuse to view the ntec as anything but "OP". Why? Because they won't sit down and actually learn to play the guns. They just think that you slap the ntec on and win. 

 

The Far more so than the Star wasn't so much better. Its a strong gun yes. But isn't very accessible. And no. It really isn't that much more like the Star. Its really more of a middle ground if anything.

 

You really think the cqc was nerfed to make a niche for the star and far? Thats a good joke. Because players pick the Star and Far for cqc capabilities... lol. Yes lets have the ntec be a mid range weapon with its large bloom jump when you can just use any other assault rifle. This actually reduces choice by nerfing the ntec as much as it has been. As i said in my other post you aren't thinking about these new players you care about so much who really only have access to two ARs. The Ntec and the Star. The ntec in its current state is awful and undesirable. As for the Star well can't say many people particularly like it that much. It just doesn't feel that great to use. Also all these choices you're opening up is a whole lot of PMGs and Shotguns. Great choices.

 

Hmm having too large a mag size? Base Accuracy? Bloom recovery? TTK? It got reworked intially by g1, and it still ended up performing almost exactly the same as before the rework in effectiveness, aside from the hp damage nerf to effect HB.

 

The primary original "competitors" for the NTEC originally were STAR, OBIR, OBEYA (If you can call the obir a competitor). STAR never cut it let alone competed in any capacity until it got buffed, at which point it became "slightly viable" and still took 6 YEARS to buff and an NTEC nerf and REWORK for it to happen, OBIR is almost never used unless its waterfront and really doesn't compete until 50-60+m, and OBEYA got reworked, then nerfed, then unnerfed and was the only viable option against NTEC. There was never a "great" direct competitor to the NTEC aside from obeya, and it, then nerfed, nerfed again?, then unnerfed ages later.

 

As I said before, any weapon that could easily compete against the original NTEC got nerfed, except for the NTEC. It took forever for G1 to realize that HB was an issue on the NTEC, but i doubt it had to do with them realizing it as an issue, and more of them deciding that they preferred the NTEC to be better than anything else. NTEC probably has the most sales as a weapon in game, i doubt they willingly touched it for any rework or nerf.

 

Star couldn't perform very well until it got buffed. A large amount of forum players agreed that it needed a buff. It wasn't until FAR (which was seen as a star/ntec hybrid) came into existence, that G1 FINALLY buffed the STAR. Even AFTER buff STAR never cut it because NTEC was still simply better and FAR was just a better option at that point.

 

Of the new weapons FAR and ATAC were the only "AR"s that can fairly easily compete against NTEC to some degree, (even after ATAC's 1htk change and possible buffs?) whether it be more at mid-range (FAR) or CQC (ATAC). Yet you see how much hate the ATAC gets. Everyone said the FAR was balanced when it came out, less versatile then NTEC, but still fairly good, and yet here we are, people complaining about FAR? Of all things? (LEL)

 

The "NTEC" is awful and undesirable, yet is still the most used AR? How does that work? If it's so awful of an AR, wouldn't everyone be running STAR, FAR, OBEYA, or any other cqc-midrange weapon that can now "do better"? I still see a lot of ntecs, yes, i see PMGS, and other weapons as well. But i'm positive that was the point considering every match I played had 3-4 NTECs in them and rarely any other weapons unless it was silvers or lower ranks, or a premade clan where they used 2 ntecs and a sniper/shotgun.

 

STAR doesn't "feel" great because it doesn't have the bloom recovery nor ttk of the ntec. Nor accuracy of the FAR. Far originally was somewhat of the middleground between both STAR and NTEC until the STAR got the FAR's bloom recovery. STAR also seems to ghost shot a bit for some reason. (I'll never understand firing 20 shots into a guy standing still afk and not killing him while tap/burst firing the star)

 

The NTEC feels "good" because it's great near pinpoint accuracy for tapfiring, mixed with faster midrange ttk from bloom recovery, and faster TTK at .7 rather than .75. It performed well from 0-65m, where the STAR, and FAR fell off at 35-50m, while the NTEC was pretty much, just as good, at jump firing, and cqc, with better midrange performance. As such, I assume LO nerfed its CQC effectiveness for that reason, as well as to give shotguns a little more room. We can say "now you just made NTEC worse and people use other guns" but shouldn't you be switching weapons based on location to begin with? If you used NTEC 95% of the time except in pure sniping situations, well uuh... yeah? Shouldn't there be more weapons being used than NTEC the majority of the time?

 

I'm fine with opening up Condor and FAR, possibly even ATAC for new player progression, or if not full open slots from role progression, then have usable pre-modded variants from contacts with jokerstore and armas being 3 slots. I don't see why they should be locked behind yearly events like they had been (aside from ATAC which had been armas only). As I said, i'm fine with giving new players more weapon variety and i'd like them to also be viable options. I'd love for more weapons to be gained from in-game progression, I'd love for more sniper variants, lmg, and pointman variants to be placed ingame for game progression. I don't have the power to do so but I can agree that there needs to be more weapon variety for progression.

 

Merged.

 

14 hours ago, swft said:

 

Yes, the FAR feels more like the STAR, except its TTK is exactly the same as the N-TEC, but I don't recall saying the opposite. However, that doesn't mean that the jumpshotting nerf shouldn't be applied to these guns too.

 

Also, like RespectThis said, you don't choose an AR based on its CQC abilities, well, actually, now you do.

I mean, at that point should no gun jump shoot except for shotguns? I'm not necessarily against that idea, however if you  think such things should only apply to AR's we may as well do it to everything else, from rifles, snipers (yes, bye current scout jumpshots), and SMGS (Bye s1na).

 

You mean people didn't pick AR's like ATAC because cqc capabilities? People pick a weapons for different reasons. The majority of people, will use 1 weapon over others, because of availability, ease of use, ttk, range, versatility, and power level. Which is why when any overpowered weapons popped up, a lot of people hopped off the holy trinity to them.

 

If you have any weapon that is essentially "too versatile" and hard to counter with other weapons, it'll be used way more than any other weapon in that niche(s). We've seen it time and time again.

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Posted (edited)
55 minutes ago, Noob_Guardian said:

 

Hmm having too large a mag size? Base Accuracy? Bloom recovery? TTK? It got reworked intially by g1, and it still ended up performing almost exactly the same as before the rework in effectiveness, aside from the hp damage nerf to effect HB.

 

The primary original "competitors" for the NTEC originally were STAR, OBIR, OBEYA (If you can call the obir a competitor). STAR never cut it let alone competed in any capacity until it got buffed, at which point it became "slightly viable" and still took 6 YEARS to buff and an NTEC nerf and REWORK for it to happen, OBIR is almost never used unless its waterfront and really doesn't compete until 50-60+m, and OBEYA got reworked, then nerfed, then unnerfed and was the only viable option against NTEC. There was never a "great" direct competitor to the NTEC aside from obeya, and it, then nerfed, nerfed again?, then unnerfed ages later.

 

As I said before, any weapon that could easily compete against the original NTEC got nerfed, except for the NTEC. It took forever for G1 to realize that HB was an issue on the NTEC, but i doubt it had to do with them realizing it as an issue, and more of them deciding that they preferred the NTEC to be better than anything else. NTEC probably has the most sales as a weapon in game, i doubt they willingly touched it for any rework or nerf.

 

Star couldn't perform very well until it got buffed. A large amount of forum players agreed that it needed a buff. It wasn't until FAR (which was seen as a star/ntec hybrid) came into existence, that G1 FINALLY buffed the STAR. Even AFTER buff STAR never cut it because NTEC was still simply better and FAR was just a better option at that point.

 

Of the new weapons FAR and ATAC were the only "AR"s that can fairly easily compete against NTEC to some degree, (even after ATAC's 1htk change and possible buffs?) whether it be more at mid-range (FAR) or CQC (ATAC). Yet you see how much hate the ATAC gets. Everyone said the FAR was balanced when it came out, less versatile then NTEC, but still fairly good, and yet here we are, people complaining about FAR? Of all things? (LEL)

 

The "NTEC" is awful and undesirable, yet is still the most used AR? How does that work? If it's so awful of an AR, wouldn't everyone be running STAR, FAR, OBEYA, or any other cqc-midrange weapon that can now "do better"? I still see a lot of ntecs, yes, i see PMGS, and other weapons as well. But i'm positive that was the point considering every match I played had 3-4 NTECs in them and rarely any other weapons unless it was silvers or lower ranks, or a premade clan where they used 2 ntecs and a sniper/shotgun.

 

STAR doesn't "feel" great because it doesn't have the bloom recovery nor ttk of the ntec. Nor accuracy of the FAR. Far originally was somewhat of the middleground between both STAR and NTEC until the STAR got the FAR's bloom recovery. STAR also seems to ghost shot a bit for some reason. (I'll never understand firing 20 shots into a guy standing still afk and not killing him while tap/burst firing the star)

 

The NTEC feels "good" because it's great near pinpoint accuracy for tapfiring, mixed with faster midrange ttk from bloom recovery, and faster TTK at .7 rather than .75. It performed well from 0-65m, where the STAR, and FAR fell off at 35-50m, while the NTEC was pretty much, just as good, at jump firing, and cqc, with better midrange performance. As such, I assume LO nerfed its CQC effectiveness for that reason, as well as to give shotguns a little more room. We can say "now you just made NTEC worse and people use other guns" but shouldn't you be switching weapons based on location to begin with? If you used NTEC 95% of the time except in pure sniping situations, well uuh... yeah? Shouldn't there be more weapons being used than NTEC the majority of the time?

 

I'm fine with opening up Condor and FAR, possibly even ATAC for new player progression, or if not full open slots from role progression, then have usable pre-modded variants from contacts with jokerstore and armas being 3 slots. I don't see why they should be locked behind yearly events like they had been (aside from ATAC which had been armas only). As I said, i'm fine with giving new players more weapon variety and i'd like them to also be viable options. I'd love for more weapons to be gained from in-game progression, I'd love for more sniper variants, lmg, and pointman variants to be placed ingame for game progression. I don't have the power to do so but I can agree that there needs to be more weapon variety for progression.

Lol ok borus again with the mag size dude. It shares the same mag size as the Star. The same TTK as the Far. Also the Far has a faster reload speed then the Ntec to make up for the smaller mag. On top of that the current Ntec doesn't preform at all like its old pre-RP nerf.

 

The Obeya wasn't the only viable option against the ntec. The OBIR was fine against it. Just because it didn't work for YOU doesn't mean it didn't work for everyone. Also the game isn't just standing in the street shooting at each other. You realize guns like the Obeya and OBIR strive on corner popping. Its what makes the OBIR extremely strong. In fact the OBIR was extremely deadly when played correctly. To the small population that has mastered it I take my hat off to them.

 

The ntec has the most sales? What relevance does this even have? Also ya they've released how many Ntec reskins? Alot of people like the CR-5 look over the base version. Also there are ten ntec varients. Eleven if you count the ursus.

 

Again as i said before the buff guns up to the ntec is fine. Clearly the Star was moving in the right direction. Doesn't even need to be a "buff" can be adjustments.

 

Not complaining about the Far bud. Making the point that people like YOU who cry "nerf the ntec" are 100% ok with the Far even though it shares alot of the same traits as the ntec.

 

Still the most used AR. As if AR's are even really used much now. The only reason it is more than likely being used is A. No access to other AR's or B. Nostalgia. Like i said, if you read, not everyone has access to these other guns because of either a paywall or insufficient JTs.

 

Yes the ntec FELT not feels good because the tapfiring felt good. You were rewarded for aiming and having good tracking. If played correctly you could beat out people in cqc if it came to it. Stop acting like all these traits apply to it. Because I can say with certainty your Ntec gameplay was pretty poor borus. All these traits you're giving to it clearly proved to not help you in the slightest. So don't act like the gun is some godsend. This is again what i mean by players who can use it effectively and have mastered it. To give shotguns more room? If you're struggling against an ntec with a shotgun then that is 100% a player skill issue. Don't even try to write that off as the ntec's problem. Like i said people who played ntec 95% of the time (like me) played it because it was our favorite gun and because it felt good. There is no problem with using a weapon a majority of the time. There are plenty of missions where i use the Aces Rifle the whole time. Or you know the people who would solely use the Carbine/Oscar the whole mission. Still not an excuse for a nerf.

 

Edited by RespectThis

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1 hour ago, Noob_Guardian said:

He's calling the FAR a "prenerf ntec". Like the F***? It's nothing like the NTEC and never was, its got a smaller mag, lower bloom recovery, more base accuracy, more CQC capabilities.

 

The FAR is functionally different from the NTEC.

The FAR is almost the same as the N-TEC in every way it can be. The mag size is that of an N-TEC with MP3 on it which some EU players use anyway, it is irrelevant. The difference in bloom recovery is completely insignificant as it allows you to do things with the exact same efficiency as you do with the N-TEC, at the exact same range, with the exact same amount of shots (if you are actually good with the N-TEC, you would know this). It has better base accuracy and it has all of the CQC capabilities that the N-TEC had - but enhanced. Where exactly is this "nothing like the N-TEC" coming from? You not wanting to admit it?

2 hours ago, Noob_Guardian said:

If the FAR and STAR was so much "better" than the NTEC, it'd be like the C-9 all over again. It isn't. There's a drastic difference between the NTEC and FAR. The FAR is MUCH more like the STAR than an NTEC.

The STAR isn't good for anything besides spraying which is why its the noob gun and also looks and sounds horrible. There are plenty of reasons why players still run N-TEC (or any other gun) instead of FAR:

  • They are trying to re-learn the N-TEC because they've always enjoyed it (me for example);
  • They don't have access to FAR because it is too grindy or expensive for them;
  • They don't want to use it despite it being a pre-nerf N-TEC because of its aesthetics and because it looks and sounds like a Toys-R-Us blaster (me again for example);
  • They never used the N-TEC to begin with so why would they hop onto another N-TEC-like weapon anyway?

And no, it wouldn't be like the VAS-C2 'Trouble Maker'* (C9 is an OCA). There is a huge difference  between N-TEC/FAR and C2 because the C2 was mainly abused by the same silvers who use ATACs to get to gold to this day. It was never abused by skilled players at least on EU, we all despised it just like every other broken gun thats only purpose of existing was to turn bronzes into golds. That whole argument is invalid because it is a different situation altogether. The FAR isn't broken, it isn't a gold maker by any means so why even entertain the idea of comparing the situations?

2 hours ago, Noob_Guardian said:

I don't understand why the cqc abilities were touched on the NTEC while the midrange were left untouched. However it seems clear that the intent was to make the NTEC worse in CQC to open up the niche more for STAR/FAR while leaving NTEC better at midrange. Giving players a choice between "good at 0-40m" vs "5/10-60"m

The CQC abilities were touched because thats what all the silvers cried about. No one ever said anything about the mid-range capabilities, thats only you alone on that train. The gun is a mid-range weapon - its supposed to be good at mid-range, especially in the hands of a high skilled player. You're too stuck on how the FAR isn't as good at mid-range as the N-TEC but in reality it actually is just good enough for that slight difference between them to be rendered insignificant. The FAR is simply underused because it looks terrible, sounds terrible, it is much less accessible to most players (as it is a F2P game) and overall why bother when the N-TEC exists - its the iconic AK and its one of the first guns you can grab and its the most fun weapon in the entire history of All Points Bulletin. The intent was to make the N-TEC specifically worse in CQC as to shut up and satisfy the crying silvers that spend money on Armas for ATACs and JMBs in hopes to get broken legendaries to carry themselves to gold somehow or to dethreat and bully trainees with them. Different strokes for different folks.

 

I would reply to your reply towards @RespectThis but he summarised it pretty well. I am not complaining about the FAR at all, I am showing you the hypocricy among you and the noobs that you guard and that is the fact that everyone just wanted the N-TEC specifically gone because it was popular, because it was fun and took skill. Skill which none of the people screaming "NERF N-TEC" had what it takes to acquire and no offense but I am certain that that applies to you as well otherwise you wouldn't be on the wrong side of the table. Not because they actually had any idea what was wrong, why they kept getting beat by it, who beat them with it or the math behind why or how they wanted it nerfed. They just wanted "NERF", meanwhile not only are they abusing easy weapons so they can somehow keep a fragile gold threat level but also ignoring other weapons which perform the same as the N-TEC but are simply underused. Now it is up to us to pick up the next best thing and in a few months there will be threads about nerfing the next weapon and so on and so forth until everything is ruined and nothing is left of the little leftover fun of APB Reloaded.

 

I'm sorry to break it to people on this forum but changing how guns work won't make you a better player and won't save you from the local high skill player who mops the floor with you every Saturday evening.

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8 hours ago, Flaws said:

That is irrelevant. I'm not showing off a single weapon's bloom, I am comparing between 3 weapons. Distance does not matter in this test.

Probabily I may be quite  ignorant in materia but for what I understood, very grossly defination of Crosshair bloom is where your crosshair changes shape based on your weapon's accuracy.

 

So per logic, Accuracy is undirectly proportional to the distance, longer is the distance, consequently less it's accuracy of a weapon, not knowing distance and other data of how you perform the test I can't really take as decent your "test".

 

I am not telling you are in wrong Flaws, of course the bloom of ntec is worse, what we can't understand how much it is comparing of the difference between in short, medium, medium/ long ranges.

 

The Ntec's nerf mainly was aiming for his versatility in CQC, honestly in CQC I miss me too the "felt" of before, but after 20 m I perform kinda as before.

Then if I see my total perfomance, honestly I admit before I was making a little more kills/less deaths with PRENERF-Ntec.... but adding feedback of mine, lately I tried a lot the FAR and what I note the number of kills/deaths with the NTEC I am still performing a little better than FAR, at least me( I admit I am quickswitching a lot more with Ntec).

 

So maybe what it's better sense for make a comparing/ test,  it's how perfomance using the actual Ntec vs other Assaul rifles (this wknd I wil try put some numbers..)

 

44 minutes ago, RespectThis said:

Yes the ntec FELT not feels good because the tapfiring felt good. You were rewarded for aiming and having good tracking. If played correctly you could beat out people in cqc if it came to it. Stop acting like all these traits apply to it. Because I can say with certainty your Ntec gameplay was pretty poor borus. All these traits you're giving to it clearly proved to not help you in the slightest. So don't act like the gun is some godsend. This is again what i mean by players who can use it effectively and have mastered it. To give shotguns more room? If you're struggling against an ntec with a shotgun then that is 100% a player skill issue. Don't even try to write that off as the ntec's problem. Like i said people who played ntec 95% of the time (like me) played it because it was our favorite gun and because it felt good. There is no problem with using a weapon a majority of the time. There are plenty of missions where i use the Aces Rifle the whole time. Or you know the people who would solely use the Carbine/Oscar the whole mission. Still not an excuse for a nerf.

 

Weird question... do u really tapfire in CQC trying all bullets tracking your opponent?

For CQC I mean at 5 m for example (shotgun smilest range).

 

Tracking, aiming, (skill hue ) in CQC with Ntec... really?

In past (and actually) if I wasnt jumpshotting or quickswitching, I was just put my bottom on the ground, crouch + pray and spray.

 

Sorry for how I wrote it but really  my intention isnt for kidding you, but I guess reading it, you will come at the conclusion you are little too much biased side 😙 

 

Bye

 

 

 

 

 

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30 minutes ago, PingOVER9000 said:

 

Weird question... do u really tapfire in CQC trying all bullets tracking your opponent?

For CQC I mean at 5 m for example (shotgun smilest range).

 

Tracking, aiming, (skill hue ) in CQC with Ntec... really?

In past (and actually) if I wasnt jumpshotting or quickswitching, I was just put my bottom on the ground, crouch + pray and spray.

 

Sorry for how I wrote it but really  my intention isnt for kidding you, but I guess reading it, you will come at the conclusion you are little too much biased side 😙 

 

Bye

 

 

 

 

 

I wasn't really asking a question.

 

I'm not only talking about cqc gameplay. I was purely stating that losing to an ntec in cqc while you're using a shotgun is your own fault. No you don't generally tap fire in cqc. I'm talking about tapfiring while aiming and tracking at range.

Edited by RespectThis

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2 hours ago, RespectThis said:

Lol ok borus again with the mag size dude. It shares the same mag size as the Star. The same TTK as the Far. Also the Far has a faster reload speed then the Ntec to make up for the smaller mag. On top of that the current Ntec doesn't preform at all like its old pre-RP nerf.

 

The Obeya wasn't the only viable option against the ntec. The OBIR was fine against it. Just because it didn't work for YOU doesn't mean it didn't work for everyone. Also the game isn't just standing in the street shooting at each other. You realize guns like the Obeya and OBIR strive on corner popping. Its what makes the OBIR extremely strong. In fact the OBIR was extremely deadly when played correctly. To the small population that has mastered it I take my hat off to them.

 

The ntec has the most sales? What relevance does this even have? Also ya they've released how many Ntec reskins? Alot of people like the CR-5 look over the base version. Also there are ten ntec varients. Eleven if you count the ursus.

 

Again as i said before the buff guns up to the ntec is fine. Clearly the Star was moving in the right direction. Doesn't even need to be a "buff" can be adjustments.

 

Not complaining about the Far bud. Making the point that people like YOU who cry "nerf the ntec" are 100% ok with the Far even though it shares alot of the same traits as the ntec.

 

Still the most used AR. As if AR's are even really used much now. The only reason it is more than likely being used is A. No access to other AR's or B. Nostalgia. Like i said, if you read, not everyone has access to these other guns because of either a paywall or insufficient JTs.

 

Yes the ntec FELT not feels good because the tapfiring felt good. You were rewarded for aiming and having good tracking. If played correctly you could beat out people in cqc if it came to it. Stop acting like all these traits apply to it. Because I can say with certainty your Ntec gameplay was pretty poor borus. All these traits you're giving to it clearly proved to not help you in the slightest. So don't act like the gun is some godsend. This is again what i mean by players who can use it effectively and have mastered it. To give shotguns more room? If you're struggling against an ntec with a shotgun then that is 100% a player skill issue. Don't even try to write that off as the ntec's problem. Like i said people who played ntec 95% of the time (like me) played it because it was our favorite gun and because it felt good. There is no problem with using a weapon a majority of the time. There are plenty of missions where i use the Aces Rifle the whole time. Or you know the people who would solely use the Carbine/Oscar the whole mission. Still not an excuse for a nerf.

 

You said "what didn't it get nerfed for" Mag size was a reply to that. It was also one of the ideas floated to nerf all AR's to 24 bullets in a mag.

 

I know the differences in gameplay with obeya and obir thank you.

 

G1 would intentionally not fix broken, glitched, and overpowered weapons for several weeks, months, years, to milk money off players, it was a strategy by them. I know that you know they did so.

 

If you were to buff "every" weapon to NTEC standard, you'd have had to rework every AR, rifle, and pointman weapon to some degree. Not that they havn't already buffed half the weapons in game to begin with. Ironically, it still wasn't "enough" because nothing still could easily compete with the NTEC.

 

FAR was a hybrid star/ntec. It leans much closer to the STAR than the NTEC, unless you're claiming the STAR shares a lot of traits of the ntec.

 

FAR has the same base accuracy as the STAR, .05 less marksman modifier, higher shot modifier cap, same crouch and walk modifiers, same run and jump modifiers, same recovery delay. Almost all the Accuracy modifiers are the same for the STAR and the FAR. Both the STAR and the FAR are "almost" identical. Aside from TTK and mag size (and im unsure about damage ramp)

 

A few matches against me proves nothing when it comes to "skill" with a weapon when consistently getting 2-4v1'd all match. Not only that, but i've had plenty of  matches with ntec with 20+ kills against premade gold groups while solo queing, as i have with most other weapons in game. Getting kills with NTEC was considerably easier imo than using other weapons to do so.

 

And you just admitted your bias, "it was our favorite gun and it felt good". Yes, people never want their favorite weapons nerfed, it's understandable. Especially when they believe the ENTIRE game should be BUILT around that specific weapon. A perception issue. A game shouldn't be "directly balanced around 1 gun". APB is balanced for example, within ranged niches from cqc-long. Most weapons are only optimal in a one them of them, but capable of doing well in other ones. That still could not be said of the NTEC which was good in every niche that it was usable in. You say "balance based on the highest skilled players". Well if all the highest skilled players only go to a certain weapon for the reason that it nets the easiest kills and has the most use across all niches, then that's reason enough to look at the weapon and see if there's enough reason or cause to re-balance it. If there's a weapon that is far too powerful within one niche, it deserves a nerf, like the C2. So why would you not nerf a weapon that is a little too powerful, across multiple niches? This is regardless of the fact that there are only 2 F2p AR's. You don't ignore game balance because there's only "2" f2p AR's, and one is drastically better than the other even after the weaker one got buffed (and the stronger one reworked and nerfed slightly), with only 3 weapons that can compete with the NTEC, and none really used over the NTEC for obvious reasons.

 

1 hour ago, Flaws said:

 

The CQC abilities were touched because thats what all the silvers cried about. No one ever said anything about the mid-range capabilities, thats only you alone on that train. The gun is a mid-range weapon - its supposed to be good at mid-range, especially in the hands of a high skilled player. You're too stuck on how the FAR isn't as good at mid-range as the N-TEC but in reality it actually is just good enough for that slight difference between them to be rendered insignificant. The FAR is simply underused because it looks terrible, sounds terrible, it is much less accessible to most players (as it is a F2P game) and overall why bother when the N-TEC exists - its the iconic AK and its one of the first guns you can grab and its the most fun weapon in the entire history of All Points Bulletin. The intent was to make the N-TEC specifically worse in CQC as to shut up and satisfy the crying silvers that spend money on Armas for ATACs and JMBs in hopes to get broken legendaries to carry themselves to gold somehow or to dethreat and bully trainees with them. Different strokes for different folks.

 

 

I would reply to your reply towards @RespectThis but he summarised it pretty well. I am not complaining about the FAR at all, I am showing you the hypocricy among you and the noobs that you guard and that is the fact that everyone just wanted the N-TEC specifically gone because it was popular, because it was fun and took skill. Skill which none of the people screaming "NERF N-TEC" had what it takes to acquire and no offense but I am certain that that applies to you as well otherwise you wouldn't be on the wrong side of the table. Not because they actually had any idea what was wrong, why they kept getting beat by it, who beat them with it or the math behind why or how they wanted it nerfed. They just wanted "NERF", meanwhile not only are they abusing easy weapons so they can somehow keep a fragile gold threat level but also ignoring other weapons which perform the same as the N-TEC but are simply underused. Now it is up to us to pick up the next best thing and in a few months there will be threads about nerfing the next weapon and so on and so forth until everything is ruined and nothing is left of the little leftover fun of APB Reloaded.

 

Dunno, I almost never saw any comments about CQC capabilities needing nerfed on NTEC, until LO floated the idea. I think I saw 1 forum post about it and was surprised to see LO take the CQC approach.

 

Yes, it's a ranged weapon, and supposed to be good at range, especially with "high skill players". Which is why they nerfed the CQC capabilities to ensure that it stays good at range while not being so good in CQC.

 

Far sounds and looks fine to me, i've done plenty well with it when I had been leveling my rifleman role and switching between the STAR/NTEC/FAR a lot.

 

If you think that the game is going to be an eternal cycle of gun nerfing you're wrong. LO already stated that isn't their intent, and it clearly wasn't G1's either. Its strawmanning and fearmongering. Did you know that most guns in the game got buffed? Not nerfed? They did nerf a number of the "stronger iconic" ones in the past. From CSG, RFP, FBW, NTEC, OBEYA, HVR. But they then buffed the "underpowered/underused" ones, STAR, SNUB, PDW, NFA, OCA, PMG, DMR, MISERY, CURSE, ALIG, ETC. The point of the previous balance changes, has clearly been to lessen the power level difference between certain weapons within the same niches so that there are more "options" to choose from. You think that APB, which is built on customization and player "choice" from modding a weapon to what suits your playstyle, to the 20+ weapons, should only have 3-5 weapons used by the majority of the playerbase? The point of the changes has been clearly to ensure that a wider variety of weapons are viable choices in more situations, and that player experience doesn't suck because of things like sprintshooting,qsing, jumpshooting, broken camp locations, and item running all of which they either removed or nerfed to some degree.

Edited by Noob_Guardian

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Posted (edited)
35 minutes ago, Noob_Guardian said:

I know the differences in gameplay with obeya and obir thank you.

 

G1 would intentionally not fix broken, glitched, and overpowered weapons for several weeks, months, years, to milk money off players, it was a strategy by them. I know that you know they did so.

 

If you were to buff "every" weapon to NTEC standard, you'd have had to rework every AR, rifle, and pointman weapon to some degree. Not that they havn't already buffed half the weapons in game to begin with. Ironically, it still wasn't "enough" because nothing still could easily compete with the NTEC.

 

FAR was a hybrid star/ntec. It leans much closer to the STAR than the NTEC, unless you're claiming the STAR shares a lot of traits of the ntec.

 

FAR has the same base accuracy as the STAR, .05 less marksman modifier, higher shot modifier cap, same crouch and walk modifiers, same run and jump modifiers, same recovery delay. Almost all the Accuracy modifiers are the same for the STAR and the FAR. Both the STAR and the FAR are "almost" identical. Aside from TTK and mag size (and im unsure about damage ramp)

 

A few matches against me proves nothing when it comes to "skill" with a weapon when consistently getting 2-4v1'd all match. Not only that, but i've had plenty of  matches with ntec with 20+ kills against premade gold groups while solo queing, as i have with most other weapons in game. Getting kills with NTEC was considerably easier imo than using other weapons to do so.

 

And you just admitted your bias, "it was our favorite gun and it felt good". Yes, people never want their favorite weapons nerfed, it's understandable. Especially when they believe the ENTIRE game should be BUILT around that specific weapon. A perception issue. A game shouldn't be "directly balanced around 1 gun". APB is balanced for example, within ranged niches from cqc-long. Most weapons are only optimal in a one them of them, but capable of doing well in other ones. That still could not be said of the NTEC which was good in every niche that it was usable in. You say "balance based on the highest skilled players". Well if all the highest skilled players only go to a certain weapon for the reason that it nets the easiest kills and has the most use across all niches, then that's reason enough to look at the weapon and see if there's enough reason or cause to re-balance it. If there's a weapon that is far too powerful within one niche, it deserves a nerf, like the C2. So why would you not nerf a weapon that is a little too powerful, across multiple niches? This is regardless of the fact that there are only 2 F2p AR's. You don't ignore game balance because there's only "2" f2p AR's, and one is drastically better than the other even after the weaker one got buffed (and the stronger one reworked and nerfed slightly), with only 3 weapons that can compete with the NTEC, and none really used over the NTEC for obvious reasons.

I wonder.

 

The only instance of that was the Troublemaker. You're really going to tell me they were milking the Cr-5 for 3 years before they released the VAS series? Which would have been out 2 years before the rights were given to LO. When the trouble maker lasted what? 3-4 months maybe?

 

Why would they have to rework every weapon. Just because they tune it around the Ntec doesn't mean everything will play like it. I think you're missing that point.

 

As i said its inbetween.

 

A few matches. My man i've played against and with you plenty while playing with Rave. Let alone your views on weapon balancing and your own statement on how your treat the game and the way you play say it all. You're casual at your core and it clearly shows. You claim the ntec only has "2 counters" when there are plenty of counters to it. You and many others just wont go out of your way to learn and apply those techniques to help you win against the ntec. If you can do it for the HVR or someone running with an item in a vehicle why can't you do it for the ntec? Also 20+ kills in a match with a gun? What does that prove about mechanic skill of a weapon at all?

 

Nothing wrong with saying i like the ntec? My mistake I guess I forgot I can't state something like that otherwise you'll just hold that against me as if you don't enjoy a gun. Thats like me saying "you like the star is that why you want the ntec nerfed so bad? Thats pretty bias... lol. You claim i'm bias yet I've already said i'm ok with MINOR tweaks. Like lower mag size,nerfing the jumpshoting, and lowering the damage enough to negate HB2. Never said the whole game should be built around it either. Nice assumption... again. Only Ar's should focus around the ntec. Thought that was the whole issue you had is no other AR's like your precious Star couldn't compete as you so claim. Hence the Holy Trinity. Why would Smgs and Sniper be balanced around something outside its class? You act like all high skill players only use the ntec. Thats never been the case. Carbine ring a bell? Maybe the OCA? You're also extremely dense for thinking "only 3 weapons can compete with the ntec". You're acting as if every battle was at 40-50m all the time. There are plenty of ways to close gaps and bait people out. People who use these techniques make very quick work of ntec players. Fun fact the oscar shreds the ntec. 

Edited by RespectThis

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10 minutes ago, RespectThis said:

I wonder.

 

The only instance of that was the Troublemaker. You're really going to tell me they were milking the Cr-5 for 3 years before they released the VAS series? Which would have been out 2 years before the rights were given to LO. When the trouble maker lasted what? 3-4 months maybe?

 

Why would they have to rework every weapon. Just because they tune it around the Ntec doesn't mean everything will play like it. I think you're missing that point.

 

As i said its inbetween.

 

A few matches. My man i've played against and with you plenty while playing with Rave. Let alone your views on weapon balancing and your own statement on how your treat the game and the way you play say it all. You're casual at your core and it clearly shows. The premade golds dethreating into the silver bronze district?

 

Nothing wrong with saying i like the ntec? My mistake I guess I forgot I can't state something like that otherwise you'll just hold that against me as if you don't enjoy a gun. Thats like me saying "you like the star is that why you want the ntec nerfed so bad? Thats pretty bias... lol. You claim i'm bias yet I've already said i'm ok with MINOR tweaks. Like lower mag size,nerfing the jumpshoting, and lowering the damage enough to negate HB2. Never said the whole game should be built around it either. Nice assumption... again. Only Ar's should focus around the ntec. Thought that was the whole issue you had is no other AR's like your precious Star couldn't compete as you so claim. Hence the Holy Trinity. Why would Smgs and Sniper be balanced around something outside its class? You act like all high skill players only use the ntec. Thats never been the case. Carbine ring a bell? Maybe the OCA? You're also extremely dense for thinking "only 3 weapons can compete with the ntec". You're acting as if every battle was at 40-50m all the time. There are plenty of ways to close gaps and bait people out. People who use these techniques make very quick work of ntec players. Fun fact the oscar shreds the ntec. 

I mean, you're talking about the "original" ntec with HB2 usage. So it's pretty possible they did. The SCOUT lasted 3 - 4 years? QSING HVR 5-6?

 

I understand that not everything will play like it, however, i also understand that buffing every weapon to that strength will cause issues. We can agree to disagree on that, however every weapon that had been close to NTEC's "original" strength has been nerfed. I'm not keen on making every weapon that "powerful", as I still hold by the fact that I feel APB's gameplay and locations were meant for higher ttk combat, not lower.

 

 I've been gold since after I got it when they upped gold to the top 20%. The last time I "tried" to dethreat was during gold lock, and after losing roughly 15 matches in a row i decided it wasn't worth the effort and stopped because I was still gold (ironically i sucked so bad I couldn't dethreat). Plus my PC was a I3 laptop running sub 20FPS, and essentially just stopped running APB after all the patches kept making performance worse. Why should all AR's "focus" around the NTEC? AR's are varied drastically with their intended niches, from ATAC, COBRA, and condor, to STAR, FAR, and NTEC. AR's vary as drastically as every other weapon role. What would be important if you were to focus on NTEC is to identify the key competitors of the NTEC within the NTEC's midrange niche from all roles, and balance accordingly. Not just "AR's".

 

STAR couldn't compete easily against most other weapons in the cqc to midrange niche, not just the NTEC. Though NTEC was the only other "AR", as such it was easier to try to reference NTEC as a basis to buff it, because it was so much bette, than the STAR was in almost every way.

 

 

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45 minutes ago, Noob_Guardian said:

You said "what didn't it get nerfed for" Mag size was a reply to that. It was also one of the ideas floated to nerf all AR's to 24 bullets in a mag.

 

I know the differences in gameplay with obeya and obir thank you.

 

G1 would intentionally not fix broken, glitched, and overpowered weapons for several weeks, months, years, to milk money off players, it was a strategy by them. I know that you know they did so.

 

If you were to buff "every" weapon to NTEC standard, you'd have had to rework every AR, rifle, and pointman weapon to some degree. Not that they havn't already buffed half the weapons in game to begin with. Ironically, it still wasn't "enough" because nothing still could easily compete with the NTEC.

 

FAR was a hybrid star/ntec. It leans much closer to the STAR than the NTEC, unless you're claiming the STAR shares a lot of traits of the ntec.

 

FAR has the same base accuracy as the STAR, .05 less marksman modifier, higher shot modifier cap, same crouch and walk modifiers, same run and jump modifiers, same recovery delay. Almost all the Accuracy modifiers are the same for the STAR and the FAR. Both the STAR and the FAR are "almost" identical. Aside from TTK and mag size (and im unsure about damage ramp)

 

A few matches against me proves nothing when it comes to "skill" with a weapon when consistently getting 2-4v1'd all match. Not only that, but i've had plenty of  matches with ntec with 20+ kills against premade gold groups while solo queing, as i have with most other weapons in game. Getting kills with NTEC was considerably easier imo than using other weapons to do so.

 

And you just admitted your bias, "it was our favorite gun and it felt good". Yes, people never want their favorite weapons nerfed, it's understandable. Especially when they believe the ENTIRE game should be BUILT around that specific weapon. A perception issue. A game shouldn't be "directly balanced around 1 gun". APB is balanced for example, within ranged niches from cqc-long. Most weapons are only optimal in a one them of them, but capable of doing well in other ones. That still could not be said of the NTEC which was good in every niche that it was usable in. You say "balance based on the highest skilled players". Well if all the highest skilled players only go to a certain weapon for the reason that it nets the easiest kills and has the most use across all niches, then that's reason enough to look at the weapon and see if there's enough reason or cause to re-balance it. If there's a weapon that is far too powerful within one niche, it deserves a nerf, like the C2. So why would you not nerf a weapon that is a little too powerful, across multiple niches? This is regardless of the fact that there are only 2 F2p AR's. You don't ignore game balance because there's only "2" f2p AR's, and one is drastically better than the other even after the weaker one got buffed (and the stronger one reworked and nerfed slightly), with only 3 weapons that can compete with the NTEC, and none really used over the NTEC for obvious reasons.

 

Dunno, I almost never saw any comments about CQC capabilities needing nerfed on NTEC, until LO floated the idea. I think I saw 1 forum post about it and was surprised to see LO take the CQC approach.

 

Yes, it's a ranged weapon, and supposed to be good at range, especially with "high skill players". Which is why they nerfed the CQC capabilities to ensure that it stays good at range while not being so good in CQC.

 

Far sounds and looks fine to me, i've done plenty well with it when I had been leveling my rifleman role and switching between the STAR/NTEC/FAR a lot.

 

If you think that the game is going to be an eternal cycle of gun nerfing you're wrong. LO already stated that isn't their intent, and it clearly wasn't G1's either. Its strawmanning and fearmongering. Did you know that most guns in the game got buffed? Not nerfed? They did nerf a number of the "stronger iconic" ones in the past. From CSG, RFP, FBW, NTEC, OBEYA, HVR. But they then buffed the "underpowered/underused" ones, STAR, SNUB, PDW, NFA, OCA, PMG, DMR, MISERY, CURSE, ALIG, ETC. The point of the previous balance changes, has clearly been to lessen the power level difference between certain weapons within the same niches so that there are more "options" to choose from. You think that APB, which is built on customization and player "choice" from modding a weapon to what suits your playstyle, to the 20+ weapons, should only have 3-5 weapons used by the majority of the playerbase? The point of the changes has been clearly to ensure that a wider variety of weapons are viable choices in more situations, and that player experience doesn't suck because of things like sprintshooting,qsing, jumpshooting, broken camp locations, and item running all of which they either removed or nerfed to some degree.

"A straw man (or strawman) is a form of argument and an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while actually refuting an argument that was not presented by that opponent.[1] One who engages in this fallacy is said to be "attacking a straw man"." 

Oh, so what you've been doing all this time? Maybe relook at what you have been posting to us, and rethink the logic pattern here. 

 

"And you just admitted your bias, "it was our favorite gun and it felt good". Yes, people never want their favorite weapons nerfed, it's understandable. Especially when they believe the ENTIRE game should be BUILT around that specific weapon." - your words. Take a good look at what he had been posting about. You couldn't refute it properly, and attacked the "favorite gun" with this type of argument. Nice job. And you wonder why we think you're a joke. 

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Posted (edited)
33 minutes ago, Noob_Guardian said:

I mean, you're talking about the "original" ntec with HB2 usage. So it's pretty possible they did. The SCOUT lasted 3 - 4 years? QSING HVR 5-6?

 

I understand that not everything will play like it, however, i also understand that buffing every weapon to that strength will cause issues. We can agree to disagree on that, however every weapon that had been close to NTEC's "original" strength has been nerfed. I'm not keen on making every weapon that "powerful", as I still hold by the fact that I feel APB's gameplay and locations were meant for higher ttk combat, not lower.

 

 I've been gold since after I got it when they upped gold to the top 20%. The last time I "tried" to dethreat was during gold lock, and after losing roughly 15 matches in a row i decided it wasn't worth the effort and stopped because I was still gold (ironically i sucked so bad I couldn't dethreat). Plus my PC was a I3 laptop running sub 20FPS, and essentially just stopped running APB after all the patches kept making performance worse. Why should all AR's "focus" around the NTEC? AR's are varied drastically with their intended niches, from ATAC, COBRA, and condor, to STAR, FAR, and NTEC. AR's vary as drastically as every other weapon role. What would be important if you were to focus on NTEC is to identify the key competitors of the NTEC within the NTEC's midrange niche from all roles, and balance accordingly. Not just "AR's".

 

STAR couldn't compete easily against most other weapons in the cqc to midrange niche, not just the NTEC. Though NTEC was the only other "AR", as such it was easier to try to reference NTEC as a basis to buff it, because it was so much bette, than the STAR was in almost every way.

 

 

Again im not saying buff every weapon to that strength. You don't understand at all when i say "tune and adjust" it around the ntec. I didn't say buff to the ntec's levels. Weapons that had been close the the Ntecs "original" strength being what? The oh so cried about PMG that hasn't been touched? Maybe the HVR that STILL has the primary issue on it of 850 damage?

 

Wow you're gold in APB. That holds absolutely ZERO value. The threat system in the game is a joke. Weird flex. As i said before, the ntec WAS one of the holy trinity back before the huge collapse of the  jenga tower of "balance" changes started to happen. The holy trinity is like a triangle right? The atac for example should be tuned around the ntec but also take values from the OCA. Since the weapon would fall inbetween the OCA and the Ntec on the Triangle. It still functions like an assault rifle but it has a good amount of cqc performance. Just like the Obeya and OBIR fall between the Ntec and the HVR. Or the Aces Rifle having some Ntec (Assault rifle) traits but falls closer to the OCA. Also The key competitors don't have to be weapons within the niche you know. Obeya, Obir, Scout, PMG, Carbine, Oscar, and OCA are all competitors of the Ntec.

 

Star couldn't compete easily against most other weapons in cqc to midrange? Should take that one up with Abduct lol. Maybe he can show you some pointers 😉

Edited by RespectThis

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Posted (edited)

159168907479393639_1.jpg

only pointman monkeys wanted the N-tec nerfed 

 

 

Edited by lauo

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