Call me sensitive but...

[isu 3]

I can understand what tigrix is feeling regarding the degradation of women i feel its actually a worthy argument for this discussion

They should have added a "gigantic clit" title instead

i hope little orbit will do the right thing and possibly change the title

thx for reading

[Tigrix 308]

3 minutes ago, isu said:

I can understand what tigrix is feeling regarding the degradation of women i feel its actually a worthy argument for this discussion

They should have added a "gigantic clit" title instead

i hope little orbit will do the right thing and possibly change the title

thx for reading

1 post, joined forum today.

Jeesh, I appreciate your effort m8, now log back on your main

[mtz 496]

1 minute ago, Tigrix said:

maybe your underlying passive-aggressive hunt for those sweet sweet acceptance points among your fellow buddies is clouding your ability to read objectively what's being replied to you.  

Alright, at this point you're just projecting ',:|

 

Honestly, reading your posts feels like regardless of what you're told by other people, you're just repeating the same thing over and over, worded slightly differently.

 

3 minutes ago, Tigrix said:

In fact, my post about this specific derogatory word being randomly tossed into the game as a reward title, should show how much I've come to respect LO for their stances and their attempts at bettering the community via rules and moderation/GM's etc etc.

You still haven't addressed the question from earlier: what makes that single specific word so bad, compared to other things? You can't say that "we already discussed the mature content of APB" and think that'll let you move on without addressing the questions posed to you. You've outright refused to specify what's so evil about this specific word compared to the others.

 

"Fuck" is okay with you. You don't seem to mind the word "b!tch". You don't have a gripe with Gumball joking about sodomy. What makes the word "wh0re" such an unspeakable offense? Is it that the term is "gendered" (which it, by definition, isn't)? In that case, why do you not have any qualms towards the word "b!tch"?

 

You're presenting an argument that the word should not be in the game because it is "very derogatory" — but 1) there are already other derogatory terms and expressions in the game, some of which are arguably worse; 2) you refuse to explain what exactly makes it so unforgivable, instead resorting to repeating that "it's bad" and never elaborating why.

You're supposing that the title goes against the Terms of Service — but 1) as you've been repeatedly proven, it isn't; 2) you do not decide what is in breach of it and what isn't.

 

You are arguing in bad faith. You don't want a debate, you want your opinion to be enforced as law.

 

Is this your first time participating in an online discussion? Did you expect everyone to absentmindedly fall in line and agree with everything you're saying? Or that if you just repeat the same thing enough times with slightly altered wording or insult people enough times, you'll automatically win?

 

[vsb 6171]

3 minutes ago, Tigrix said:

Firstly, since LO took over APB, they've inherited the game "as-is", by all definitions and standards, that's the outcome of taking over an active project.
All the mature stuff that is in APB,  is taken as-is

that seems like a pretty dangerous allowance, literally anything could be construed as acceptable as long as it was ingame before little orbit took over?

 

and how does that relate to user generated content - what if i had a symbol that's against little orbit's ToS, would it be okay because i made it in 2016?

 

 

9 minutes ago, Tigrix said:

there's IMHO nothing wrong in tough language, aka "fuck" or "suck" or w/e examples.
That's APB, that's the mature rating. I don't see anything derogatory insulting in the word "fuck".

im not sure who brought up 'fuck' but my examples specifically were illegal (in many US states at least) acts and other derogatory (comparable to 'wh*re') words used to refer to women, none of which seemed to have bothered you even now after they've been pointed out

 

 

14 minutes ago, Tigrix said:

because it sends the wrong signal to people who look for excuses and greenlights to insult others with this type of derogatory language.

this seems like a flimsy excuse to me, anyone using the title and being called a wh*re likely doesn't care because they are already labeling themselves as such

 

anyone calling someone without the title a wh*re gets a warning or whatever the appropriate disciplinary action is and the line is drawn

 

at worst we get another thread like this one where someone doesn't understand the difference between the two scenarios and it gets explained to them

[Tigrix 308]

26 minutes ago, MartinPL said:

Alright, at this point you're just projecting ',:|

 

Honestly, reading your posts feels like regardless of what you're told by other people, you're just repeating the same thing over and over, worded slightly differently.

 

You still haven't addressed the question from earlier: what makes that single specific word so bad, compared to other things? You can't say that "we already discussed the mature content of APB" and think that'll let you move on without addressing the questions posed to you. You've outright refused to specify what's so evil about this specific word compared to the others.

 

"Fuck" is okay with you. You don't seem to mind the word "b!tch". You don't have a gripe with Gumball joking about sodomy. What makes the word "wh0re" such an unspeakable offense? Is it that the term is "gendered" (which it, by definition, isn't)? In that case, why do you not have any qualms towards the word "b!tch"?

 

You're presenting an argument that the word should not be in the game because it is "very derogatory" — but 1) there are already other derogatory terms and expressions in the game, some of which are arguably worse; 2) you refuse to explain what exactly makes it so unforgivable, instead resorting to repeating that "it's bad" and never elaborating why.

You're supposing that the title goes against the Terms of Service — but 1) as you've been repeatedly proven, it isn't; 2) you do not decide what is in breach of it and what isn't.

 

You are arguing in bad faith. You don't want a debate, you want your opinion to be enforced as law.

 

Is this your first time participating in an online discussion? Did you expect everyone to absentmindedly fall in line and agree with everything you're saying? Or that if you just repeat the same thing enough times with slightly altered wording or insult people enough times, you'll automatically win?

 

You don't understand the difference between derogatory words as wh0re and saying fuck off? What does sodomi discussing have to do with anything? You can discuss racism too, that doesn't have anything to do with the point of this topic? You're trying too hard to farm points among your buddies dude  

I explained precisely upper what's the difference and why I find that using such language as reward titles is going against everything they're trying to establish via their EULA update and in-game active GMs/moderation policy. Do you need me to copy paste it again? here you go, specially for you:

Firstly, since LO took over APB, they've inherited the game "as-is", by all definitions and standards, that's the outcome of taking over an active project.
All the mature stuff that is in APB,  is taken as-is and personally as I already made clear with my reply to Kyoki, there's IMHO nothing wrong in tough language, aka "fuck" or "suck" or w/e examples.
That's APB, that's the mature rating. I don't see anything derogatory insulting in the word "fuck".

Anyway, LO inherited APB as-is and right away made a very clear point of wanting to ASAP update the eula to their "own standards" (if you dig among the first posts of LO, this was the primary first topics).
All good so far yes? Aka, they've shown responsibility imo so far. They take a pride in the work they do and they understand that they're the ones in charge and being looked up to in a certain way for "whats okay and whats not okay". They made a big point of wanting to re-establish in-game moderation (active GM's partaking in chat and actually warning/moderating for TOS violations).

All good so far yes?
Ok, so LO imo so far has made good strides to try and turn this community around to a more positive and shall we say... functional one. 
I'm not saying they've done any miracles or anything, ofc not ... but they've definitely improved the community IMO, since they took over. (Yes LO, this is a compliment, i'm not just bashing you guys).

In fact, my post about this specific derogatory word being randomly tossed into the game as a reward title, should show how much I've come to respect LO for their stances and their attempts at bettering the community via rules and moderation/GM's etc etc. It's IMO disappointing that they in this way joke with their own TOS, because it sends the wrong signal to people who look for excuses and greenlights to insult others with this type of derogatory language.

I think Matt understands that and I really doubt he had a hand in this or was aware of it going out. I guess we will wait and see.
 

Merged.

 

21 minutes ago, Solamente said:

that seems like a pretty dangerous allowance, literally anything could be construed as acceptable as long as it was ingame before little orbit took over?

 

and how does that relate to user generated content - what if i had a symbol that's against little orbit's ToS, would it be okay because i made it in 2016?

 

 

im not sure who brought up 'fuck' but my examples specifically were illegal (in many US states at least) acts and other derogatory (comparable to 'wh*re') words used to refer to women, none of which seemed to have bothered you even now after they've been pointed out

 

 

this seems like a flimsy excuse to me, anyone using the title and being called a wh*re likely doesn't care because they are already labeling themselves as such

 

anyone calling someone without the title a wh*re gets a warning or whatever the appropriate disciplinary action is and the line is drawn

 

at worst we get another thread like this one where someone doesn't understand the difference between the two scenarios and it gets explained to them

Ah cmon mate, you understand that it'd be a mess to have such ambivalent rules lol.
"Dude, i wanna report this pleasant fellow for violating the TOS, calling me sexual swear words as wh0re!" 
"oh shit ok, we will deal with it.... oh no wait, did you actually use the title we added in the game calling urself wh0re?"

lol cmon.

You are able to discuss this at a mature level, so I believe you are also able to understand why a game company should follow it's own policy and why you don't make exceptions where you have to explain "well the user actually in THIS specific case picked themselves the title of wh0re, so it's completely fine they were called as such..."

Again, we'll see. I obviously don't believe that Matt was aware of this going out, but we will see and if i'm wrong then i'll be very surprised while wrong.

[mtz 496]

1 minute ago, Tigrix said:

I explained precisely upper what's the difference and why I find that using such language as reward titles is going against everything they're trying to establish via their EULA update and in-game active GMs/moderation policy.

As @Solamente pointed out, anyone labelling themselves with that word probably doesn't have a single issue with it. Your point is...?

 

3 minutes ago, Tigrix said:

You're trying too hard to farm points among your buddies dude  

I don't understand where you're getting the impression that I'm doing this for internet points. It's either you projecting onto others (again) or you repeating falsehoods (again) hoping that they will eventually become real when repeated enough times.

 

2 minutes ago, Tigrix said:

You don't understand the difference between derogatory words as wh0re and saying fuck off? What does sodomi discussing have to do with anything? You can discuss racism too, that doesn't have anything to do with the point of this topic?

All of these questions are related to the big question that you refuse to answer. I thought that I posed it in a simple enough manner, but I suppose I'll have to rephrase it again since you're so insistent on deflecting the argument instead of answering it: out of all possible insults, what makes that single specific word so bad compared to its alternatives?

 

[MACKxBOLAN 430]

3 hours ago, Tigrix said:

Isn't using a word as w-h-o-r-e in a reward title in your game, sort of the same as blue-printing it as an okay word to throw around? I mean most kids are very susceptible

  Let Me chime in. I'm 50, with two grown kids. Both addicted to video games, mostly shooters, we even had that ps1 game Vietnam themed, where if you had the cash or points you could 'Go to the Village and pay for a Ho, n the video would show your character walking into the grass thatched hut. Neither of My kids are mean towards women or sexist in any way, nor do they habitually shoot up the town, do dope, ect. They came out with very good morals.

 Why? Because I Raised them Right. They knew the difference between right and wrong.

     So, Your "Sitting Around Waiting To Be Offended", And You pick this new Title out of numerous other worse things to teach a kid, like beating a woman dressed like a prostitute, and punching her 4-5 times to Mug her, clothing options have most players dressed like a Booty-Call, We have missions where You are threatened that if you loose, you will be Punish-Plucked, the woman's pattootie 'waggles' when she walks n the man's don't, we have 420 symbols, n all kind of Father-Raping going on, n U pick this.    

[Tigrix 308]

24 minutes ago, MartinPL said:

As @Solamente pointed out, anyone labelling themselves with that word probably doesn't have a single issue with it. Your point is...?

 

I don't understand where you're getting the impression that I'm doing this for internet points. It's either you projecting onto others (again) or you repeating falsehoods (again) hoping that they will eventually become real when repeated enough times.

 

All of these questions are related to the big question that you refuse to answer. I thought that I posed it in a simple enough manner, but I suppose I'll have to rephrase it again since you're so insistent on deflecting the argument instead of answering it: out of all possible insults, what makes that single specific word so bad compared to its alternatives?

 

(This also goes for @MACKxBOLAN) I can only refer you to actually read my response. The difference of in-game story from an M-rated game with contacts aka NPC's talking about each-other --- versus --- a company making jokes of very derogatory words that they already struggle with warning their community against using towards each-other. 

I explained it now a couple of times the difference:) I really can't help you make it any clearer.

I do however think that a reasonable person can see the difference in whats gameplay/story and npcs talking and we'll see if Matt is/was aware of this title at all being added/released.

Edited April 4, 2020 by Tigrix

[mtz 496]

8 minutes ago, Tigrix said:

I can only refer you to actually read my response. The difference of in-game story from an M-rated game with contacts aka NPC's talking about each-other --- versus --- a company making jokes of very derogatory words that they already struggle with warning their community against using towards each-other. 

I explained it now a couple of times the difference:) If you still don't grasp a difference, then I really can't help you make it any clearer.

I don't think you understand the question posed to you. Either that or you are knowingly dancing around the act of answering it for reasons I am not aware of.

 

I cannot simplify this any further, so please do actually answer me this time around. This is the last time I'm asking for an explanation and I'm not going to participate in this any further if I don't get a concise answer from you this time around.

 

What exactly makes the use of that specific word so much worse than the use of any other curse word?

[Valkyrja- 55]

Haha I love people that think they speak for everyone. 

[Tigrix 308]

Just now, MartinPL said:

I don't think you understand the question posed to you. Either that or you are knowingly dancing around the act of answering it for reasons I am not aware of.

 

I cannot simplify this any further, so please do actually answer me this time around. This is the last time I'm asking for an explanation and I'm not going to participate in this any further if I don't get a concise answer from you this time around.

 

What exactly makes the use of that specific word so much worse than the use of any other curse word?

Firstly, its not a curse word. Fuck is a curse word or used-as a curse word.

Wh0re is a description of **** do i need to link you again 3 different English dictionaries?

Ok then, I hope it clears it up again for you, finally maybe this time? 
I told you this, like 7 posts back btw, goto page 1 and 2 and read my reply concerning your example of "fuck" and "gumball talking of sodomi".

yw:)

[vsb 6171]

37 minutes ago, Tigrix said:

Ah cmon mate, you understand that it'd be a mess to have such ambivalent rules lol.
"Dude, i wanna report this pleasant fellow for violating the TOS, calling me sexual swear words as wh0re!" 
"oh shit ok, we will deal with it.... oh no wait, did you actually use the title we added in the game calling urself wh0re?"

lol cmon.

You are able to discuss this at a mature level, so I believe you are also able to understand why a game company should follow it's own policy and why you don't make exceptions where you have to explain "well the user actually in THIS specific case picked themselves the title of wh0re, so it's completely fine they were called as such..."

Again, we'll see. I obviously don't believe that Matt was aware of this going out, but we will see and if i'm wrong then i'll be very surprised while wrong.

there’s nothing really all that difficult or messy about it, you and i both summed up such a policy in less than 3 sentences

 

in fact i’ve personally been involved in such a situation; another forum user referred to me by one of my discord handles which is technically considered against the forum ToS, the other user was warned but explained the situation, and the warning was rescinded - easy peasy painless (and quick)

 

 

 

i see you’ve also chosen to completely ignore the other more relevant parts of my post, but your reply to someone else is related so

20 minutes ago, Tigrix said:

(This also goes for @MACKxBOLAN) I can only refer you to actually read my response. The difference of in-game story from an M-rated game with contacts aka NPC's talking about each-other --- versus --- a company making jokes of very derogatory words that they already struggle with warning their community against using towards each-other. 

I explained it now a couple of times the difference:) I really can't help you make it any clearer.

I do however think that a reasonable person can see the difference in whats gameplay/story and npcs talking and we'll see if Matt is/was aware of this title at all being added/released.

there is no difference between your two options

 

both are “dev generated content” and according to you all “dev generated content” should conform to the ToS said devs created, so we’re back to what differentiates why some potentially offensive “dgc” is acceptable and some “dgc” is unacceptable 

[mtz 496]

20 minutes ago, Tigrix said:

Firstly, its not a curse word. Fuck is a curse word or used-as a curse word.

Wh0re is a description of **** do i need to link you again 3 different English dictionaries?

Ok then, I hope it clears it up again for you, finally maybe this time? 
I told you this, like 7 posts back btw, goto page 1 and 2 and read my reply concerning your example of "fuck" and "gumball talking of sodomi".

Firstly,

 

If you have to nitpick for a specific definition of a word to make your point, it probably isn't too sound of a point.

 

Secondly, it's a description of what?

Dictionary definitions explain the word's meaning, not how offensive it is. I asked you several times to explain what about the word made it worse than — for example — jokes about sodomy (Gumball's lines), implications of incest (the word "motherfvcker") or dehumanization (the word "b!tch"). I asked about the pragmatics of this word being worse than its alternatives. You were unable to provide me with such explanation for several posts in a row.

 

Thirdly: no, you didn't answer it. Had you answered the question, I would not have written those previous posts. Hell, I wouldn't have written this post.

 

I've rephrased and dumbed down the question several times in order to make it easier for you to understand it and answer it — I cannot possibly simplify it any further and yet you still cannot provide me with an answer. You missed your chance, bud. I'm out. Write this one down as a "win" in your little notebook or something if it makes you feel better. I don't have the energy to keep hoping that you'll answer simple questions anymore.

Edited April 4, 2020 by MartinPL
"b!tch" got caught in the forum filter

[Tigrix 308]

1 minute ago, MartinPL said:

Firstly,

 

If you have to nitpick for a specific definition of a word to make your point, it probably isn't too sound of a point.

 

Secondly, it's a description of what?

Dictionary definitions explain the word's meaning, not how offensive it is. I asked you several times to explain what about the word made it worse than — for example — jokes about sodomy (Gumball's lines), implications of incest (the word "motherfvcker") or dehumanization (the word "fuzzy bunny"). I asked about the pragmatics of this word being worse than its alternatives. You were unable to provide me with such explanation for several posts in a row.

 

Thirdly: no, you didn't answer it. Had you answered the question, I would not have written those previous posts. Hell, I wouldn't have written this post.

 

I've rephrased and dumbed down the question several times in order to make it easier for you to understand it and answer it — I cannot possibly simplify it any further and yet you still cannot provide me with an answer. You missed your chance, bud. I'm out. Write this one down as a "win" in your little notebook or something if it makes you feel better. I don't have the energy to keep hoping that you'll answer simple questions anymore.

Did you miss the part where it said vulgar and sexually explicit language? 
Seems you're good at doing exactly what you accuse others of:) Selectively nit-picking!

I did answer you, go back and read the replies please.
I said again; you're using examples of a curse word "fuck", while the topic revolves around NOT a curse word, but a derogatory insult.
Widely understood to be an insult and widely understood to be specifically an insult towards women selling themselves for $$.

The fact that you still refuse to acknowledge the difference of a curse word "fuck" and this... is just baffling at this point.

Have fun being "out" of the debate, lets see how long  
 

[Kingley 11]

This thread is full of comedic gold.

[ok 419]

9 minutes ago, Kingley said:

This thread is full of comedic gold.

It's rather pathetic though, people being offended because others are insulting themselves

[MattScott 15242]

Hi all,

 

Let me step in here to provide some clarity.

 

First, I want to say that I respect the OP’s opinion. I’m going to disagree in my answer, but I can appreciate the dialog this has raised on this thread.

 

Next, I think it is important to remember that the game itself is rated M and has pre-existing references to prostitution and the term itself. I’m not going to start diluting RTW’s vision for a gritty world with mature themes.

 

As has already been pointed out, the term refers to a male or female, and more importantly the title was meant to be more of a joke than anything since it refers to candy on Easter rather than prostitution. This is a case where I do think the OP is taking this a bit too seriously. Having said that, if you don’t approve of the term, you have agency on whether to apply the title to yourself or not.

 

Lastly, the forums are PG-13, and have always had different rules than the game. Previous management felt the need to blacklist the term here, which I’ll respect for the time being. 

 

Thanks,

Matt

[ok 419]

Based af Matt

[mattskoii 67]

13 minutes ago, Kingley said:

This thread is full of comedic gold.

More like a shakespear tragedy to a game that has drug references and sexualised content ie revealing outfits god forbid (offensive titles?) just saying.

[Shui 225]

12 minutes ago, MattScott said:

Next, I think it is important to remember that the game itself is rated M and has pre-existing references to prostitution and the term itself. I’m not going to start diluting RTW’s vision for a gritty world with mature themes.

Thats what I like to hear!
Thanks Matt

[Tigrix 308]

3 hours ago, MattScott said:

Hi all,

 

Let me step in here to provide some clarity.

 

First, I want to say that I respect the OP’s opinion. I’m going to disagree in my answer, but I can appreciate the dialog this has raised on this thread.

 

Next, I think it is important to remember that the game itself is rated M and has pre-existing references to prostitution and the term itself. I’m not going to start diluting RTW’s vision for a gritty world with mature themes.

 

As has already been pointed out, the term refers to a male or female, and more importantly the title was meant to be more of a joke than anything since it refers to candy on Easter rather than prostitution. This is a case where I do think the OP is taking this a bit too seriously. Having said that, if you don’t approve of the term, you have agency on whether to apply the title to yourself or not.

 

Lastly, the forums are PG-13, and have always had different rules than the game. Previous management felt the need to blacklist the term here, which I’ll respect for the time being. 

 

Thanks,

Matt

Idk how there is the (on this forum) sudden wide conception that the word wh0re refers equally to men as to women, that imo seems a bit far fetched and in poor taste pretending it being so.
I'm pretty sure, outside of this forum asking a 1000 random people what the word wh0re refers to, 99% would have answers that was very much gender specific, as the definitions too.
In all the big dictionaries it firstly, aka line 1: refers to women of "ill morals".

Thanks for having the stones to come out and make an official reply though (most game developers would avoid it), it's appreciated even if we clearly have a different opinion on inappropriate jokes.

I absolutely love the gritty nature of APB, but to me there's a difference between story gameplay, npc-contact personalities/talk and then the studio adding in player titles of such phrases that they refer them as jokes. On-top of that, from a business standpoint, mature rating and all taken into consideration, I really don't see any upsides of adding such "agency choice" to players - not just for the false impression it can give some players about the usage of that word being totally fine cus' "you're in APB", but also to anyone promoting your game (including yourselves if you'll ever start doing it). Anyone just seeing clips from the game on YT or a screenshot, don't know your sense of humor or that it's "all just an easter joke".

If I was playing Battlefield Vietnam and shooting viet congs and getting gritty responses from quest NPC's and blowing up tents with c4 ... yes, it's all part of the game, the story, the theme of the game. However if the developers of BF Vietnam tomorrow adds an easter event and give out players titles of crooked eyes killer whatever....

Again, I think there is (and should remain?) a clear difference in smack-talk from gameplay lore/story/npc characters and then giving the agency of such choice to your players as a joke. 

That being said, I'll simply end it on the note that I am very surprised, thanks for the reply.

Edited April 4, 2020 by Tigrix

[Salvick 248]

The only problem I see here is to think that a woman (or a man) that chooses or feels there's no other option than selling their body for money deserves no respect as I feel it is the OP's vision of wh*res. Now if the term itself is used in a bad way I agree it is wrong to use it but putas themselves are the only ones allowed to call themselves putas and they do that indeed so let anyone who wants to use that title have it.



Now talking about cursing like a sailor, let me share this here, it really fits:
 

 

[Kingley 11]

1 hour ago, ɱɑƫƫʂϗᎧɨɨ™ said:

More like a shakespear tragedy to a game that has drug references and sexualised content ie revealing outfits god forbid (offensive titles?) just saying.

I always try to think positively about these situations.

[xXD4v1dXx 49]

Pathetic... For being apart of one of the most toxic communities in gaming yall really are a bunch of babies. 

[Sayori 311]

I only play fc these days so I'm out of the loop.

There are npcs on the street that will yell at you "de puta madre". I'm really not bothered by them, they are fictional. The problem is the actual players.

Title seems fitting considering the above mentioned because it truly has no essence in it...