So the shotgun pellet reduction changes were just dropped then?

[Hexerin 1140]

 

No mention of it whatsoever in the blog post, nor has it been mentioned at all period since it was originally stated to be a change that would be made alongside the rayscaling reversion.

 

Shotguns are my secondary weapon class of choice (precision rifles being my primary). I have a vested interest in them being viable, and their horrid inconsistency prior to the rayscaling implementation is not something that is desirable to see return. The concept of reduced pellets per shot was an intriguing one that, if successful in practice, would still see shotguns in a more consistently performing state compared to how they were originally.

[GhosT 1301]

Ray scaling ruined many shotguns and broke a few so hard they had to hit them with the nerf stick way too many times.

 

No thanks.

[illgot 379]

2 hours ago, GhosT said:

Ray scaling ruined many shotguns and broke a few so hard they had to hit them with the nerf stick way too many times.

 

No thanks.

remember when the CSG was a really good weapon when it first came out?  Sure, it may have had a bit too much range, but it was a great weapon.

[WorldDominator 61]

Ray scaling was introduced in order to make shotguns more forgiving and easy for the players who are inconsistent themselves at that weapon category. 

 

Shotguns worked just fine as they originally were to me.

[CookiePuss 5379]

Shotguns are still being balanced. 

Nothing has been finalized. 

[vsb 6171]

8 hours ago, illgot said:

remember when the CSG was a really good weapon when it first came out?  Sure, it may have had a bit too much range, but it was a great weapon.

the csg had been a solid part of the meta (with the jg trailing ever so slightly behind) until rayscaling, so i’m not really sure what op’s talking about 

 

 

ontopic: rayscaling is a crutch that allows players with poor aim to ignore shotguns intentional balancing and get easy ttks

[GhosT 1301]

9 hours ago, illgot said:

remember when the CSG was a really good weapon when it first came out?  Sure, it may have had a bit too much range, but it was a great weapon.

 

The first pay2win weapon... (or did they release the Scout before the CSG?)

 

Yeah, I have deep memories of this absolute monster... was fun, but wasn't at the same time.

Edited January 22, 2020 by GhosT

[illgot 379]

39 minutes ago, GhosT said:

 

The first pay2win weapon... (or did they release the Scout before the CSG?)

 

Yeah, I have deep memories of this absolute monster... was fun, but wasn't at the same time.

Whisper was pretty op when it first came out.

[Nivo 13]

On 1/22/2020 at 1:36 AM, GhosT said:

Ray scaling ruined many shotguns and broke a few so hard they had to hit them with the nerf stick way too many times.

 

No thanks.

I do have to agree the cash does feel a tad bit weird. Not going to talk about the NFAs after using it though.

Edited January 23, 2020 by Nivo

[Jilleroo 349]

On 1/22/2020 at 12:27 PM, GhosT said:

 

The first pay2win weapon... (or did they release the Scout before the CSG?)

 

Yeah, I have deep memories of this absolute monster... was fun, but wasn't at the same time.

Pretty sure it was CSG first, cause I bought a Whisper and CSG (both PR-2) really early on, lol. Man, I've come a long way...

[Nivo 13]

On 1/22/2020 at 2:27 PM, GhosT said:

 

The first pay2win weapon... (or did they release the Scout before the CSG?)

 

Yeah, I have deep memories of this absolute monster... was fun, but wasn't at the same time.

I think the scout was out before the csg but i may be wrong.

[vsb 6171]

the first p2w weapon was obviously the joker cr5 

[Noob_Guardian 418]

On 1/22/2020 at 4:30 AM, illgot said:

remember when the CSG was a really good weapon when it first came out?  Sure, it may have had a bit too much range, but it was a great weapon.

yes it was great and overpowered.

[Mitne 724]

19 hours ago, Solamente said:

the first p2w weapon was obviously the joker cr5 

According to many newbies, yes.

I FUCKING KNEW IT - APB IS P2W1!1 *shows at reskin of free weapon*

Edited January 27, 2020 by Mitne

[Selali 1003]

On 1/21/2020 at 10:04 PM, Hexerin said:

No mention of it whatsoever in the blog post, nor has it been mentioned at all period since it was originally stated to be a change that would be made alongside the rayscaling reversion.

For context I think Hexerin is referring to a post that was made by Matt back in July. I will quote the section that he is talking about. (Feel free to correct me if this isnt what you meant @Hexerin )

"The Shotgun changes from summer last year were focused on increasing the reliability of shotguns at the cost of severely reducing the punishment for missing. This new proposal is designed with the original linear damage scaling per pellet, but leaves room to adapted stat wise if needed. We want to greatly reduce the pellet spread, as well as pellet count to both reduce frustrations with the spread making well aimed shots essentially not count and badly aimed shots still counting."

That post was back before we had decided to revert all of the shotgun changes back to the Pre-LO time. Since doing that, we believe that less drastic measures are going to be required to bring shotguns back into a good state. Pellet count is one of a number of vectors that we can look at changing to get shotguns into a good place in APB but it is not one of the things that we are looking at changing at this time.

[Hexerin 1140]

2 hours ago, Selali said:

For context I think Hexerin is referring to a post that was made by Matt back in July. I will quote the section that he is talking about. (Feel free to correct me if this isnt what you meant @Hexerin )

"The Shotgun changes from summer last year were focused on increasing the reliability of shotguns at the cost of severely reducing the punishment for missing. This new proposal is designed with the original linear damage scaling per pellet, but leaves room to adapted stat wise if needed. We want to greatly reduce the pellet spread, as well as pellet count to both reduce frustrations with the spread making well aimed shots essentially not count and badly aimed shots still counting."

That post was back before we had decided to revert all of the shotgun changes back to the Pre-LO time. Since doing that, we believe that less drastic measures are going to be required to bring shotguns back into a good state. Pellet count is one of a number of vectors that we can look at changing to get shotguns into a good place in APB but it is not one of the things that we are looking at changing at this time.

That's exactly the statement I was referencing, thanks for bringing it here. I truly believe you should reconsider the decision to not go that path, as shotguns will remain inconsistent and frustrating to use otherwise. The very limited data you get from the testing districts isn't going to give you a valid picture of the weapon's live state, and once you push those broken stats live the entire weapon class will become just as forgotten as it was before in favor of the significantly more consistent bullet-based alternatives.

 

Ultimately though, nothing will be as effective as the rayscaling. I weep for the fact that you guys listened to the idiots who don't even play the game and demanded you revert, instead of listening to the rational players who asked you to simply adjust the stats to tone them down ever so slightly. You were on the precipice of shotguns being perfectly balanced, but just like Gamersfirst/Reloaded you went full pants-on in the other direction because of that clique shit.

 

Shotguns were actually fun to use with rayscaling, because if you shot a person they would be assured to actually take damage. Prior to rayscaling, you could shoot a person dead-on and they would suffer almost nothing because half the pellets scattered to the worst possible places they could. It's fucking absurd, and it's what you guys are putting the guns back to.

[Tragia 12]

11 hours ago, Selali said:

That post was back before we had decided to revert all of the shotgun changes back to the Pre-LO time. Since doing that, we believe that less drastic measures are going to be required to bring shotguns back into a good state. Pellet count is one of a number of vectors that we can look at changing to get shotguns into a good place in APB but it is not one of the things that we are looking at changing at this time.

Ok. Stop there.

Shotguns were perfectly balanced before you messed them up repeatedly.

[TheJellyGoo 343]

10 hours ago, Hexerin said:

That's exactly the statement I was referencing, thanks for bringing it here. I truly believe you should reconsider the decision to not go that path, as shotguns will remain inconsistent and frustrating to use otherwise. The very limited data you get from the testing districts isn't going to give you a valid picture of the weapon's live state, and once you push those broken stats live the entire weapon class will become just as forgotten as it was before in favor of the significantly more consistent bullet-based alternatives.

 

Ultimately though, nothing will be as effective as the rayscaling. I weep for the fact that you guys listened to the idiots who don't even play the game and demanded you revert, instead of listening to the rational players who asked you to simply adjust the stats to tone them down ever so slightly. You were on the precipice of shotguns being perfectly balanced, but just like Gamersfirst/Reloaded you went full pants-on in the other direction because of that clique shit.

 

Shotguns were actually fun to use with rayscaling, because if you shot a person they would be assured to actually take damage. Prior to rayscaling, you could shoot a person dead-on and they would suffer almost nothing because half the pellets scattered to the worst possible places they could. It's fucking absurd, and it's what you guys are putting the guns back to.

It's called missing. Stop fuzzy bunnying and accept your own shortcomings.

You're frustrated because you missed a shot and not because shotguns are inconsistent - in fact it's simply you who is inconsistent. Suck it up and improve or switch to another weapon. 

Of course nothing will be as effective as rayscaling because it's literally shooting with crutches. It's not supposed to hand out 2-shots for free. They should be earned.

Also btw. from this idiots perspective you're far from rational.

Edited January 28, 2020 by TheJellyGoo

[WorldDominator 61]

12 hours ago, Hexerin said:

That's exactly the statement I was referencing, thanks for bringing it here. I truly believe you should reconsider the decision to not go that path, as shotguns will remain inconsistent and frustrating to use otherwise. The very limited data you get from the testing districts isn't going to give you a valid picture of the weapon's live state, and once you push those broken stats live the entire weapon class will become just as forgotten as it was before in favor of the significantly more consistent bullet-based alternatives.

 

Ultimately though, nothing will be as effective as the rayscaling. I weep for the fact that you guys listened to the idiots who don't even play the game and demanded you revert, instead of listening to the rational players who asked you to simply adjust the stats to tone them down ever so slightly. You were on the precipice of shotguns being perfectly balanced, but just like Gamersfirst/Reloaded you went full pants-on in the other direction because of that clique shit.

 

Shotguns were actually fun to use with rayscaling, because if you shot a person they would be assured to actually take damage. Prior to rayscaling, you could shoot a person dead-on and they would suffer almost nothing because half the pellets scattered to the worst possible places they could. It's fucking absurd, and it's what you guys are putting the guns back to.

 

15 hours ago, Selali said:

"The Shotgun changes from summer last year were focused on increasing the reliability of shotguns at the cost of severely reducing the punishment for missing.

Did you even give yourself an opportunity to read what was written to you?

As a vet and a shotgun main i can say that shotguns were not inconsistent and i was almost guaranteed to 2 shotting my enemies 95% of the times if they were in my shotgun's range.

Do not blame the guns for your own shortcomings as u were told above.

[PepeHands 50]

3 hours ago, Tragia said:

Ok. Stop there.

Shotguns were perfectly balanced before you messed them up repeatedly.

Shotguns were fine. Lag compensation in this game never was...which led to crying and hitreg issues

[CookiePuss 5379]

38 minutes ago, WorldDominator said:

As a vet and a shotgun main i can say that shotguns were not inconsistent

Imagine using anecdotal evidence in an argument with someone that has hard data.

[vsb 6171]

4 minutes ago, CookiePuss said:

Imagine using anecdotal evidence in an argument with someone that has hard data.

hexerin isn't really bringing any hard data to the table either, he's just repeatedly claiming that "no one used shotguns" despite them being nerfed several times for being too strong

[WorldDominator 61]

1 hour ago, CookiePuss said:

Imagine using anecdotal evidence in an argument with someone that has hard data.

You are free to check for yourself whether that was anecdotal evidence or not.

Plus hexerin didn't bring any hard data to the table rather he was expressing his frustration about shotguns going back actually requiring some skill to be able to min. ttk enemies with them. 

[CookiePuss 5379]

5 hours ago, Solamente said:

hexerin isn't really bringing any hard data to the table either, he's just repeatedly claiming that "no one used shotguns" despite them being nerfed several times for being too strong

 

3 hours ago, WorldDominator said:

You are free to check for yourself whether that was anecdotal evidence or not.

Plus hexerin didn't bring any hard data to the table rather he was expressing his frustration about shotguns going back actually requiring some skill to be able to min. ttk enemies with them. 

LO has hard data.

Hex and the rest of us do not.

Sorry, should have been more clear.

[Amayii 398]

This thread has been locked as per OP's request.

 

~@mayii