Remember Loot Boxes? Either keep them off this game for good or make this game Adults Only (ESRB Rating)

[Hexerin 1140]

6 hours ago, Fortune Runner said:

People who have addiction problems choose it.

The fuck's wrong with you?

 

 

Edited September 15, 2019 by Hexerin

[TheDogCatcher 176]

9 hours ago, ScLines said:

Being able to make a good profit on video games has long existed before microtransactions came in. And even if the game sells very well with the 'predatory' monetization there are still lay-offs despite all the profits. So it doesnt seem to make a difference.

 

I don't know if you have ever dealt with anyone or someone that you know has addiction problems when it comes to shopping or gambling but this is a big problem. It is not something you can simply turn off, it doesn't work that way. It is very easy to be there and saying 'they should of known better'. There are people that try to escape other forms of addictions and turn to videogames for that but fall prey on the 'predatory' monetization. It is even worse when children/adolescents get involved. Parental supervisory or keeping an eye on your credit card is simply not enough. It is a problem that could easily be fixed by not having the 'predatory' monetization. 

 

Some have already argued ideas that they need to keep these bad designs and practices just to stay in business. If you are really relying on those for those reasons, maybe you shouldn't be in video game business. There are other safe ways to make money in video games whether you are a big company or a small company etc.

 

I may be repeating these points what some others have said already but I stand by these points that I have said.

 

Well first off it's not even about making a profit for a game like APB ( I doubt APB has made any significant money for quite some time) it's more a case of survival at this point, there are very few F2P games out there that don't rely on some kind of gambling type mechanic for the main bulk of their revenue, there are one or two that I can think of but these are the exceptions rather than the rule.

 

Next up yes I have known people with serious addiction issues ( drugs, alcohol, etc. ) and it is always a case of personal responsibility. Take drink for instance most people can go out and have a few drinks and do so responsibly, a small minority are unable to do that, they always go over the top and end up in trouble, does that mean we should ban drinking just because a small minority can't handle it ? ........  of course not.

 

If people have serious problems they need to take personal responsibility for them and avoid anything that might trigger those issues.

 

If you let them the weak will always drag you down to their level and it's up to the rest of us to ensure that doesn't happen.

 

 

Edited September 15, 2019 by TheDogCatcher

[Spy 152]

13 hours ago, Fortune Runner said:

and its possible to do that for free

It is yes, there are multiple companies who provide free VPN services, google is your friend.

[Queen of Love 449]

@Salvick

I agree with you.

 

Personal consideration about gambling: In Italy every 18+ could buy in any bar/shop/drugstore the entire stock of lottery/gambling tickets available and there is not any law for prevent this.

 

If people have not issue with support gambling ,regulations should not limit freedom.

If people  could have issue with any kind of personal free choice the first prevention should be family or directly medical state division.

 

TLDR: 

Make APB adult only, pay the references for official gambling games, in this way the kids around will be responsability of family, not of game company.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Glubbable 41]

Lootboxes are a cancer on this industry. If your business is being kept a float by abusing the pysch of those with gambling addictions then you need a serious re-think.

 

F2P or not, Lootboxes need either massive reform or their entire removal. Get rid of this entire RNG crap.

Edited September 15, 2019 by Glubbable

[Kast2 28]

20 hours ago, greenfield said:

Well im an adult and 1week ago i spent 40$ trying to get Ursus, but got instead lot of crap that i either dont need or already have. These practices are indeed dissapointing.

I'm not surprised, the possibility of receiving the legendary item is 1 box out of 100. That's suck.

[CookiePuss 5373]

2 hours ago, Glubbable said:

If your business is being kept a float by abusing the pysch of those with gambling addictions then you need a serious re-think.

Well good thing APB is sinking then. 

[Humnahey 2]

22 hours ago, ScLines said:

As studies have already shown and countless other sources have shown; Parental supervision is simply not enough, especially with gambling/predatory monetization involved. I don't mind video games getting the same treatment like the gambling industry already is doing.

 

Lol "studies have shown parental supervision is not enough when raising your children. The government must be involved because the government know best." Get your 1984 big brother shit out of here and let me spend my money the way I want to spend my money. I don't need any government telling me what is and isn't good for me. 

 

Give me power of attorney...I'll control your life for you if you want. 

3 hours ago, Glubbable said:

Lootboxes are a cancer on this industry. If your business is being kept a float by abusing the pysch of those with gambling addictions then you need a serious re-think.

 

F2P or not, Lootboxes need either massive reform or their entire removal. Get rid of this entire RNG crap.

 

What are you going to say when people say there is a "gaming addiction?" "Gaming is a cancer on society....if your business is being kept a float by abusing the psych of those with a gaming addiction then you need a serious re-think." 

 

Fuck personal responsibility amirite?

 

[ScLines 13]

15 minutes ago, Humnahey said:

 

Lol "studies have shown parental supervision is not enough when raising your children. The government must be involved because the government know best." Get your 1984 big brother shit out of here and let me spend my money the way I want to spend my money. I don't need any government telling me what is and isn't good for me. 

 

Give me power of attorney...I'll control your life for you if you want. 

 

What are you going to say when people say there is a "gaming addiction?" "Gaming is a cancer on society....if your business is being kept a float by abusing the psych of those with a gaming addiction then you need a serious re-think." 

 

Fuck personal responsibility amirite?

 

Sure. If you want to do things illegally and not be told by laws or regulations on what you can and cannot do in life that's totally up to you. 

[CookiePuss 5373]

2 hours ago, Kast2 said:

I'm not surprised, the possibility of receiving the legendary item is 1 box out of 100. That's suck.

Thats not how odds work.

2 minutes ago, ScLines said:

Sure. If you want to do things illegally and not be told by laws or regulations on what you can and cannot do in life that's totally up to you. 

If laws are your guide for morality, I feel bad for you.

[ScLines 13]

4 minutes ago, CookiePuss said:

Thats not how odds work.

If laws are your guide for morality, I feel bad for you.

If you end up getting into legal trouble one way or the other then you wouldn't be saying that would you? Pretty sure nobody wants to be in that position. It's that thing where you hear bad things happen to other people and think 'oh that will never happen to me' and then it does actually happen. Life ain't perfect but you get used to it.

[Humnahey 2]

4 minutes ago, ScLines said:

Sure. If you want to do things illegally and not be told by laws or regulations on what you can and cannot do in life that's totally up to you. 

 

So if for whatever reason they decide to say that "gaming addiction" is real and make gaming illegal because too many 20ish year old boys are not working because they are gaming in their "loot boxless" games for 20 hours a day you're going to say "welp, gaming was fun...thanks government for making society better."

 

I want to do things that I want to do and make my own decisions. How I spend my money has no affect on someone's life, liberty or the pursuit of happiness. While I am not going to downplay the seriousness of addiction, loot boxes and spending your own money comes down to you and you only. Many people are addicted to cocaine, heroin and other substances that have been deemed "illegal" by countless governments. How come laws and regulations didn't solve those problems?

[ScLines 13]

10 minutes ago, Humnahey said:

 

So if for whatever reason they decide to say that "gaming addiction" is real and make gaming illegal because too many 20ish year old boys are not working because they are gaming in their "loot boxless" games for 20 hours a day you're going to say "welp, gaming was fun...thanks government for making society better."

 

I want to do things that I want to do and make my own decisions. How I spend my money has no affect on someone's life, liberty or the pursuit of happiness. While I am not going to downplay the seriousness of addiction, loot boxes and spending your own money comes down to you and you only. Many people are addicted to cocaine, heroin and other substances that have been deemed "illegal" by countless governments. How come laws and regulations didn't solve those problems?

I'm pretty sure you know the answer to that question already. Laws and regulations aren't perfect but it is still better than absolute freedom if you think about it. For example, taxes. Almost everybody doesn't like them but most people deal with it. Glad to hear you want to do decisions for yourself, but then again the whole world doesn't revolve around you or me either. Hoping to see things in the world just a little bit better if that happens at all when looking outside the box.

Edited September 15, 2019 by ScLines

[CookiePuss 5373]

6 minutes ago, ScLines said:

I'm pretty sure you know the answer to that question already. Laws and regulations aren't perfect but it is still better than absolute freedom if you think about it. For example, taxes. Almost everybody doesn't like them but most people deal with it. Glad to hear you want to do decisions for yourself, but then again the whole world doesn't revolve around you or me either. Hoping to see things in the world just a little bit better if that happens at all when looking outside the box.

I wanna ask about unjust laws, but the idea of arguing with some kid gives me a headache.

,,,carry on

[Hexerin 1140]

2 hours ago, CookiePuss said:

If laws are your guide for morality, I feel bad for you.

Considering that was one of their original purposes... course nowadays lawmaking is completely distorted by the corruption and greed of politicians, but yea.

[Salvick 248]

4 minutes ago, Hexerin said:

Considering that was one of their original purposes... course nowadays lawmaking is completely distorted by the corruption and greed of politicians people, but yea.

It might be just me, but I believe corruption always need someone willing to avoid or break the law to begin with, so its a bit more than one single side issue imo.

 

 

Anyways, I'd like to insist to me is more about the target audience than the product itself,  and the video game industry has turned into this long time ago so I doubt the solution will come from any legislative changes any time soon.

 

We as part of a gaming community could only ask to have better balanced chances to access the stuff we want, games used to reward the player by solely playing the game and unlocking content was the goal of playing it so probably decorative assets such as clothing and car body kits could remain as paid content while functional items should stay as part of the game progression unlocks and rewards along with some options to pay for a few of the top tier guns and such, that's what I consider an ideal scenario.

[Fortune Runner 796]

12 hours ago, Glubbable said:

Lootboxes are a cancer on this industry. If your business is being kept a float by abusing the pysch of those with gambling addictions then you need a serious re-think.

 

F2P or not, Lootboxes need either massive reform or their entire removal. Get rid of this entire RNG crap.

Little Orbit already did adjust the loot boxes to be reformed and is continuing to do so.

 

8 hours ago, ScLines said:

I'm pretty sure you know the answer to that question already. Laws and regulations aren't perfect but it is still better than absolute freedom if you think about it. For example, taxes. Almost everybody doesn't like them but most people deal with it. Glad to hear you want to do decisions for yourself, but then again the whole world doesn't revolve around you or me either. Hoping to see things in the world just a little bit better if that happens at all when looking outside the box.

you sound like a socialist who only takes away freedom and calls it good to do so.

[Glubbable 41]

13 hours ago, Humnahey said:

 

Lol "studies have shown parental supervision is not enough when raising your children. The government must be involved because the government know best." Get your 1984 big brother shit out of here and let me spend my money the way I want to spend my money. I don't need any government telling me what is and isn't good for me. 

 

Give me power of attorney...I'll control your life for you if you want. 

 

What are you going to say when people say there is a "gaming addiction?" "Gaming is a cancer on society....if your business is being kept a float by abusing the psych of those with a gaming addiction then you need a serious re-think." 

 

Fuck personal responsibility amirite?

 

They've tried for years to blame video games for mass shootings in America it's never been successful because of the lack of evidence to support such a claim.

Where as things such as Gaming & Gambling Addictions are known and well documented addictions that destroy a persons life.

 

And yes, Gaming Addiction was recently recongised as a form of addiction (thanks to Fortnite). Where the person in question neglects even the basic functions of living to play video games.

The whole topic on that kind of addiction though is unrelated to the current one which is about our virtual slot machines known as Loot Boxes.

 

12 hours ago, Humnahey said:

 

So if for whatever reason they decide to say that "gaming addiction" is real and make gaming illegal because too many 20ish year old boys are not working because they are gaming in their "loot boxless" games for 20 hours a day you're going to say "welp, gaming was fun...thanks government for making society better."

 

I want to do things that I want to do and make my own decisions. How I spend my money has no affect on someone's life, liberty or the pursuit of happiness. While I am not going to downplay the seriousness of addiction, loot boxes and spending your own money comes down to you and you only. Many people are addicted to cocaine, heroin and other substances that have been deemed "illegal" by countless governments. How come laws and regulations didn't solve those problems?

The problem is not with how people choose to spend their money but with how businesses choose to act when it comes to this sort of thing.

We have literal business presentations that explain to other business suits on how to take full advantage of someones pysch to rope them into spending.

We also now have the standard of a game releasing with the bare mininum amount of content with additional content being locked behind aggressive monetization pratices.

 

It's great that you, like many others, have self-restraint and are able to make rational purchase decisions. But sadly, others are not able to and it's these people that businesses pray upon.

And sadly, this leads to these businesses making decisions that ultimately are harmful and toxic to the consumer base within this industry by enforcing pratices that are intended for milking these people.

 

This current shitstorm however set in motion after EA released their own Battlefront 2 where they had locked any form of progression behind microtransactions & lootboxes.

This was on top of the fact that the game had released with only a few maps and completely missing features with the promise of them in future via a season pass.

It was basically a strong arm tactic at getting as many people that had already spent $60 or more into spending even more money, just to play the game that had purchased.

 

It got even worse, when business reps from EA lied to government officials on what defined a lootbox, which has now resulted into the dumpster fire growing even larger.

There's been several online commentators of the industry such as YongYea & Jim Sterling who have reported & commentated on lootboxes and other nasty business pratices for a long time now.

Plus, we're only now starting to discover that the "1%" or "whales" not actually wealthy people, but those with actual, serious, gambling and/or spending problems.

 

3 hours ago, Fortune Runner said:

Little Orbit already did adjust the loot boxes to be reformed and is continuing to do so.

Adjusting the rates does not solve the problem I am afraid. Lootboxes need to move away from the virtual slot machine approach of spinning on a drop list of random items.

Currently as it stands, Dota 2 is the only game that I am aware of that offers what is currently the best form of lootbox.

Crates in Dota 2 give you entire item sets and you are guaranteed to get every set in the crate at least once before dupes are possible.

But alas, it's the only game that has such a lootbox because of Chinese Consumer Laws and Valves desire to have Dota 2 be available in China.

 

Currently, the options are to massively overhaul the joker boxes or to outright remove them. This game was bled dry by the previous owners after many years of neglect and abuse.

Until steps are taken to allow this game to finally start healing again, they need to do this. If you value consumer good will, you will take this shit out.

Edited September 16, 2019 by Glubbable

[Fortune Runner 796]

8 minutes ago, Glubbable said:

Adjusting the rates does not solve the problem I am afraid

if its not predatory then it isn't wrong to do.

Little Orbit is trying to move away from them regardless which is fine by me.

[vsb 6170]

7 minutes ago, Glubbable said:

We have literal business presentations that explain to other business suits on how to take full advantage of someones pysch to rope them into spending.

isnt this how every business works regardless of industry?

 

 

10 minutes ago, Glubbable said:

Adjusting the rates does not solve the problem I am afraid. Lootboxes need to move away from the virtual slot machine approach of spinning on a drop list of random items.

Currently as it stands, Dota 2 is the only game that I am aware of that offers what is currently the best form of lootbox.

Crates in Dota 2 give you entire item sets and you are guaranteed to get every set in the crate at least once before dupes are possible.

But alas, it's the only game that has such a lootbox because of Chinese Consumer Laws and Valves desire to have Dota 2 be available in China.

the division 2 paid lootboxes are similar iirc, you can only receive each item once

 

i find it odd that you see this as preferable to the current system but with increased drop rates - obviously there's the potential (however small) for current boxes to never reward the grand prize, but with over 100 guns available in joker boxes (plus differing lease lengths) you're still looking at several hundred dollars even if every item is only rewarded once

[Alani 475]

do people not understand that the ESRB rating of M means

 

ADULT ONLY

 

 

and that the A rating for ESRB refers to sexual related games?

 

idk why people want to change the rating.

 

Just be glad APB isn't rated E or T otherwise you would have a bunch of teenagers playing this game lmao

 

(as if they arent already)

[crusade 89]

10 minutes ago, Alani said:

do people not understand that the ESRB rating of M means

 

ADULT ONLY

 

and that the A rating for ESRB refers to sexual related games?

The AO rating is a step above the M rating, and has been given to games purely for the violence (uncensored Manhunt 2 comes to mind).

[ScLines 13]

28 minutes ago, crusade said:

The AO rating is a step above the M rating, and has been given to games purely for the violence (uncensored Manhunt 2 comes to mind).

ESRB's own website says that AO rating applies to games that have gambling with real currency. M rating doesn't have it. Multiple studies and sources have already shown that the majority have pointed out that loot boxes are gambling hence why this game should be rated AO and not M. But it is better to remove loot boxes, if not, put an AO rating at least for ESRB's rating.

Edited September 16, 2019 by ScLines

[vsb 6170]

1 minute ago, ScLines said:

ESRB's own website says that AO rating applies to games that have gambling with real currency. M rating doesn't have it. Multiple studies and sources have already shown that the majority have pointed out that loot boxes are gambling hence why this game should be rated AO and not M. But it is better to remove loot boxes, if not, put an AO rating at least for ESRB's rating.

joker boxes aren't gambling because you are always rewarded with something of more value than you put in, as far as i understand it

[Nitronik 348]

20 hours ago, Queen of Love said:

@Salvick

I agree with you.

 

Personal consideration about gambling: In Italy every 18+ could buy in any bar/shop/drugstore the entire stock of lottery/gambling tickets available and there is not any law for prevent this.

 

If people have not issue with support gambling ,regulations should not limit freedom.

If people  could have issue with any kind of personal free choice the first prevention should be family or directly medical state division.

 

TLDR: 

Make APB adult only, pay the references for official gambling games, in this way the kids around will be responsability of family, not of game company.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Nevermind the fact that those kids are destroying families with their addiction.

Just because you can doesn't mean you should, or even make it right.