AgentWatson

Rofl. How is it better when it takes longer to get shots off? That's the whole point, it's meant to take longer to get shots off, you're paying repercussions for choosing to have more range on your weapon by losing effectiveness in close range. If the changes are reverted to how they were before with the old IR system then you'd still get N-TEC out performing SMG's and Shotguns at their respective ranges because at closer ranges the bloom is negligible because your target is bigger. The issue currently is that it's exacerbated by the shotgun changes and IR changes, so all shotguns for the most part are more effective at close range and most mid-range to long range weapons have lost effectiveness at close range. So it has created a bubble in close range where only OCA's and Shotguns are effective, not that this should be all that surprising. That's the way it should be though in my opinion, just need to make it so there is balance done to a lot of the other SMG's so they can be just as effective.

Yeah I played with it an hour to see if I could notice a change. I couldn't find anything different about the way it performed. Suggestion: PerShotModifier 1.50> 0.80 PerShotModiferCap 1.50>1.15 Run Modifier 5.0> 3.8 Sprint Modifier 7.5 > 4.0 Walk Modifier 1.2> 1.1 Jump Modifier 40.0> 9.0

It wasn't the wrong way to fix HVR. intentionally it's meant to make it so that when you're not fully aimed that you'll suffer damage penalties. You can't critique a system that's not even functioning correctly.

Hmm, that shouldn't be possible looks like something must've broke when it was pushed to live.

Then there is something wrong with you dude, if you think the game is in a worse position now than before the balance pass then I don't know what to say. I'm actually enjoying myself more now than I was and that's not because I'm using shotguns or N-TEC in-fact I've been using stuff like Misery, Anubis since the server came back up and I definitely feel as though I'm doing much better respectively than I would have previously. Yes one of the most used red mods in the game got nerfed and so what..? Good. If it falls out of meta I'm glad. I'm not going to be losing sleep tonight because some people just can't get over the changes to IR, in my opinion it's probably deserved if they've grown so accustomed to it. I'm not a fan of the way IR is right now, in fact I'd of kept it the way it was originally with the 21% firerate nerf and original range benefits if I had it my way. It's not some baseless assumption either, you literally created this thread 20 minutes after the server came back up, so I know for a fact you haven't given the balance pass an actual decent try. You stick to this thread voicing out your grievances and I think it's sad that people in this thread are simply pandering to your neuroticism like you actually made this thread in good faith, your entire first post and some other posts you've made in this thread are insults directed at LO. Please stop acting like anything you have to say on the matter is made in good faith, because you could've said any number of things to voice your criticisms and instead you went straight to insults, which is why I'm willing to discount most of what you've said. It wasn't even this thread it was also the posts you made in the balance pass threads too.

Don't think that's what needs to happen. They just need to adjust IR3 to 7m again but keep the fire rate deficit and we'll pretty much go to the way it was before the patch. N-TEC doesn't nearly have as much of a dominant position in the meta anymore as it use to before the balance pass. So we've managed to take two steps forward in a certain regard but in other places we may of went one step back and that's fine, I just feel the game is in a better position now.

This is what your brain looks like on APB kids. Seriously, you're going to make that case. A bunch of other guns have been buffed with this patch so it's not nearly as relevant a point anymore, yes you'll still have N-TECs, CR762's and CSG's but you have a lot of other things going on now that weren't happening before. Firstly, the Misery is actually a really decent weapon now and I'd definitely say almost competes on equal footing to the N-TEC 5, you've also got things like the ISSR-A now which is pretty decent, the Anubis is much better etc. I don't see why you're developing an aneurysm in your brain over the balance patch, my theory is that you got on got killed a bunch of times and that was confirmation of your biases that N-TEC is too strong. I find this balance to be much more enjoyable than it was before the balance pass.

I don't think so, LO still has their own TOS and I think that'll still strictly be against the TOS.

I have figuratively thousands of pre-modded weapons still laying around in my mailbox that have never been touched.

That's what we all want.. What they did was listen to one guy and ignore the rest. Even the 1%. I mean 1% of all players in APB is 20 people, maybe less than that if you're talking about concurrent players based on time zones. Someone new has just as much of a valid opinion than someone who has been playing for years. Someone new may not know the entire nuances of game mechanics but if you were to give a new player a bunch of weapons and have them test all the guns individually, objectively they'd find some guns to be better than others. I'm not talking about silvers or people within the majority of the people lower than the 1% I'm genuinely talking about actual new players.

My god...you're part of the problem.

I mean the changes have been up on the liver server for a little over an hour and people are already complaining. I'm going to give it time, I'm playing the same game that you guys are and I'm willing to accept changes will take some adaptation. Doesn't mean I'm not finding issues with the current balance and I personally thought and perhaps wish they had extended the OTW longer as well. I think I'll give it a week or more before I actually come to some decent conclusion on what I think. Honestly I'm wondering as I went to live server why Mobile Radar Tower didn't just get completely removed or demolished.

They weren't okay. The issues with servers and network lag made it so that you could get inconsistent results with the shotgun, the new model makes it so there is a fairer player ground between people who're equally as skilled and no nonsense going on in-between. Because I live in Australia, this issue was compounded by my latency, I'd sometimes have to shoot people upwards of 4-5 times <10m I'm not saying the new model is perfect by any stretch personally I'd of lowered CSG range to 11m or 12m overall I think the changes here are really positive.

OTW may still be up. I was on it just moments ago.

It isn't. Go and check the OTW they've made last minute changes to the mod. It now has 3/6/9 and 6/12/18% respectively now on the OTW.

Huh..? Don't think that's the case. Because the update they're referencing doesn't even reflect the current changes on OTW. I'm pretty sure they'll be pushing last minute changes to the update before it goes live. DIdn't realize the 1.1.9.6 was so close to be released though, that's sort of cool.

It's Wednesday, pretty sure it's maintenance.

Taking the longest to reach full health isnt a downside? Most firefights in APB as you know are drawn out for the most part, not a whole lot but enough so that CA3 is a straight upgrade. Because you can take a single hit from a gun like N-TEC and only a little more than a second later you're already accumulating the health damage back. I've tried CA2 and CA1 and it's true they come with their own benefits but I find CA3 is more universally better than CA1 and CA2 because of that quick accumulation of health good for low power hit trading. If you're playing from a distance I think CA2 is preferable though that might be subjectively what I think though.

Yes. Weapons will suffer as a result of a -15% ROF nerf but that's meant to be the way it is, there isn't a single mod currently in the game excluding a few outliers like 3PS3 or CA3 etc that don't come with harsh downsides once you start dipping your toes into that level 3 mod. Many of the reasons people don't take mods like level Heavy Barrel 3 are for the same reason because the upside you get for that mod is negligible to the amount of damage you're losing but that's the price you're going to have to pay to choose adjust that weapon to a playstyle that doesn't benefit that selection of weapon you still have the ability there to undeniably break the viability of your weapon if you put mods on it that aren't suited for it. In my experience playing on the OTW since it has come out carbine, huntress( haven't been using temptress) those guns benefit from the mod because the mod works like a bloom regulator. It adds artificial limits to the guns ROF so that the player doesn't go over a certain threshold. You're gaining TTK at longer ranges but losing that in CQC, that isn't a downside, because you're extending the viability and versatility of the weapon far past to where it should be viable and only losing a negligible amount of damage potential in the trade off. LCR I believe is still getting looked into, it's not in a good place, I'll concede that but the developer seems active about adjusting the gun to account for the new balancing issues.

Haven't ran into a single gun on OTW that has been "screwed over" by the changes you're so neurotic about quite the opposite, in some cases IR tends to highlight the issues with certain guns making them even more broken. Yes CJ has balance issues on some guns as well, that doesn't excuse the fact that IR continually remains one of the most used red mods on weapons, This in part hopefully moves people to try different mod loadouts doesn't mean though that any mod is safe. This balance pass rectifies an issue I've had with the game for the last 4 years. Again another person to adjust things by bloom. There are a tonne of issues when balancing things around bloom and the suggestion you're making would also make it so that people would have to learn new rhythms with them mouse as you'd put it. Though that's not really much of an issue, that's pretty much how balance and metas work. You have to be willing to adjust indefinitely in a live competitive game. Secondly the issue with bloom is is that you're further making things harder for people on console to adjust. People respectively stick to easier guns that don't have uncontrollable patterns on console like the ATAC which is why it's so popular on console and as the two platforms become more harmonized it's important to remove downsides like that on PC because no one likes putting things on their weapon that increase features that they cannot account for. I've highlighted a point you've made that could easily be problematic because you're making a nebulous point here without really defining what it is you mean by less accurate or by how much you want these guns to be less accurate by. I bring this up as the main point of contention because it almost sounds like you're fine with attaching really weird gimmicks to some guns to cause further confusion simply because you don't like what they've done to IR. Hate reiterating of points already made but you can't adjust entire game balance on some weapons to account for one mod.

So the only way to balance it on your opinion is to increase randomness and make it feel very samey with its drawbacks in regards to something like CJ3? That's a horrible idea, we've have to go through a another balance pass just to test whether your suggested changes would affect weapons in another multitude of ways. The mod as it currently is hilariously broken but the only thing that needs to be changed is the benefit for the mod. I highly doubt the mod as it is in its current state is going to go live.

Huh..? I was bringing it up as an issue. I said you brought up an issue with IR3 which is that with some guns it doesn't affect maximum bloom at all and I find that to be problematic. As to 3PS3 it's inconsequential to balance in most cases because it's only reducing equip time which has really only ever been an issue on the HVR and Rocket launchers in the past because you're getting around a stat which is meant to be consequential for balance on those weapons Personally I don't find the fact that the FANG has a higher TTK than the FBW to be a good reason to nerf it. The Colby 45 has a higher TTK than the FBW, you could argue it requires more skill but I don't think that one point is good enough to consider nerfing guns. You can call removing IR3 lazy if you want, if it makes a difference and decreases the overall effectiveness of the gun and puts it into a balance state I find that to be an adequate change. As for CJ3, perhaps it'll get looked at. This is perhaps one of few of the balance passes. I think you're completely distracted about issues with other mods when I don't think anyone is arguing that CJ3 is in a balanced state either, there are plenty of mods in the game currently which are unbalanced. Even if we're not thinking about weapon mods I can think of plenty of character mods that will perhaps need to be looked at.

Your suggestion seem to be solely focused around Fang and honestly the only thing that I see that should be done to it is removing IR3. You're not making a good enough arguement or suggestion in my opinion to warrant them changing things back to how they were, in-fact we'd just be going back to step 0 and honestly you pointed out something currently in the game that makes the current IR3 an issue. If there are guns that are completely not affected by IR then in my eyes that's probably not an intended feature to have in the game. Beastie has stated that the reasons around focusing on positive changes as opposed to negative changes is the negative connotation and stigma related to nerfing weapons in the first place. No one wants to have owned a weapon that is completely nerfed, that's going to spiral out of control and piss off a lot of people. I think the change he has made here is quite significant but it's required because it draws a harsh comparison between weapon mods that may make people alternatively try other mods on their weapon and not simply always go with IR3 for 80% of all scenarios. The "issues" are pretty apparent. People are fighting and winning battles at ranges their selected gun isn't meant to excel at. This is the reason for the HVR change, changes to shotgun, IR3. It's to push weapons into a playstyle they were intended for. These changes are still undergoing adjustments and perhaps you'll get more of something you'll prefer, but personally once this test is over I wanna see more people using a variety of mods on their weapon, not just one.

I don't know @LO_BeastieI think this guy is onto something.

Rifling is the only thing in these notes I take issue with. I think the concessions you've made here with fire rate are far too lenient. I'm always obviously going to try it out first but I see issues with the reduction here. Personally I'd of preferred if you had just adjusted the range benefit of IR3 to the values listed with the previous value for firerate and then see how the newer adjustments would've been perceived. What I ultimately fear and see happening is people will just go with 1 or 2 of IR because these are ultimately as close to the original IR but without the crippling downside the original IR mod had. The other changes however you've made with regards to general weapon balance may be spot on and are in accordance with what a lot of the community has suggested.