Salvick

So, the thread is intended to bring our thoughts about what are we gonna do from here regarding our attitudes towards the other players but particularly with the ones returning after the massive unbans, cheaters and non cheatrs. All the comments made here are appreciated, that is this about, but wouldn't say this is a thread to discuss if we like cheaters or not, or if we like them returning or not. That have been already well addressed the past days since the announcement, and I don't think someone needs to wonder if there are people who agree with cheating or that appreciate cheaters coming back, although the second chance topic might be something for another thread too because that's way more complex to analyze I think. Also, I've been a cheater myself, I like to call it a rehab-cheater, back in 2003/2005 I always like to tell this story, there's a thread in the old forums where I told this to everyone if someone is curious, and that explains a lot of things for these who wants to know how the mind of a cheater works from my point of view. That's also why I like, seriously, I really love to tell a player that he cheats when I have suspicions, in that story I like to tell I point out the fact that you can last years hiding it if you are good at it, even from good players and admins, so that's why I like to tell someone that I think is cheater when I think he might be, (or might not) because is not only about they gameplay, it is about to see their reactions, to see what they reply, there's where you can find a consistent behavior on almost every cheater answers, their cheap excuses, mean replies and repetitive monotonous speech are always the same, and it is fun to see if someone I suspect replies like that or if he is someone reasonable who can just say something nice like "hey, why do you think I cheat? I'd like to debate to find out what I did and what you saw". Even I, as an average/casual player, got hackusated, and talking with the hackusators and hackusated I made some friendship a few times. I like the fact that someone also pointed out here what is this discussion about, this issue is being taking care of, we must look forward to see the outcome of the new management decision, follow their leadership and do our best to accomplish our goal of having a better game to enjoy, and the old management should be the only ones to blame since they took a lot of protective decisions to hide the trail of the mess that was going on, stressing the community and making the vast majority feel so uncomfortable and upset that almost everyone jumped in the train of massive destruction of APB either by cheating, hackusating or talking trash about the company and fighting each other between players. Said this, if someone have a personal problem with me, could simply send me a message here or ingame so we sort it out if its needed, unless you are more interested on keep on with some drama and convince yourself that being mean and attempting to humiliate me or anyone else makes you look better than a silly hackusation. I for sure get very upset at having cheaters returning to access their stuff, only thing I had to feel better than them was the fact that I'm able to keep all my characters and items safe as long as I play the game (only account since my reg date guys) and now, that wouldn't be a good pretext anymore, lol. However, I rather have the misery of getting beat by a cheater than the misery of needing to cheat to enjoy an online game, in my eyes, cheaters belong to single player games and are not made for online gaming at all. At last but not least, a brief disclaimer, I don't have any friends that I could tell have been banned and I want them to return, indeed the people who knows me ingame should know that I don't have any ties with other players at all more than playing with a few here and there and those also knows that I'm not a very attached person and I end up ghosting a lot or simply playing alone a lot sometimes. I do know of people who was either too dumb to fall into cheating and got banned, who I blame for that but feel guilty of not being able to prevent them from doing it if I'd know, and I know of people who got banned for other reasons than cheating so I'm no one to judge, still, I insist that I don't have any personal interest on anyone in particular to return. Regards everyone, nice talking over here all of you.

Pretty much what Kewlin said. I do agree.

Guys, stop hijacking this thread pls, god.

Pretty much this is what I'm saying, I'm not telling anyone should change their mind and forgive and forget, but I'm saying that we should take this chance looking forward and never look back, if we start sh*t on chat and everywhere else we'll be sticking to bad habits that were wrongly handled by the game management in the first place, my deepest concern always has been the toxicity and bullying, I had been through more harmful argues with other players than the amount of times the cheaters thingy worried me, so I know that if this new management is willing to do everything the old management didn't or gave up trying, then we as a community also should see if we follow their guidelines and support them to see where this goes, since it seems promising and we know how the community caused a lot of damage in many aspects, not only cheating. Cheating indeed was a consequence than a cause imo. As a cat lover person this was heart-breaking! Hope that cat managed to tear apart this stalker. ^_^

You are being generous, I say 12hs But probably we wont see these, I think forum mods will handle it well since it is in the rules that we are not allowed to talk about bans here, so, I think we are safe. And I like your signature!

Granted, but your wish just triggered an infinite paradox that made the whole multiverse, time and space restart infinitely in a frozen instant that actually contains absolutely everything that could exist so the wish of the next person's wish after you can actually be granted so we continue this game ...I forgot what else...can't finish this sentence but also... ...and... ...so... I wish a mech exoskeleton with guns and guided missiles to go at work.

Maybe not, I don't know... wow! Really...wow again!

Lameee, hope they can find a workaround to let people keep rigging their characters and stuff. In the meanwhile, if someone is unaware of this and try it in the public servers, do you think it would trigger a ban? Although I think if the game doesn't launch it shouldn't reach the account details to properly handle a ban...but I honestly don't know.

So, we are having great news today with the announcement of BattleEye patch deployment and personally I can't wait to see the outcome of this, its going to be a huge bump on population but what actually concerns me is the bump of toxicity or drama that this could also raise up now. So I'd like to open a debate here beforehand so we can comment our thoughts about the allegedly cheaters and the confirmed blatant ones that will be returning to the game. I really don't think that this is a moment for us to revenge on them cheaters by creating a hell for them when they return, pretty sure many of them will consider changing their name and hide the footprint but I know this community since long enough to positively confirm that the bullying and toxicity that some times the people have can do a mess over the whole gaming experience for everyone around. Also, people with some influence or relevant presence in the game can easily lean the perception of something by pushing other players who are not sure of their standing regarding a particular issue to finally step on their side, which only helps to fuel the drama when it comes to it. This is why I think that this is the right moment to anticipate this and be prepared to handle OUR community ourselves when we are ingame by contributing with the positive atmosphere that L.O. has created around us since their arrival, I would like to say that if we start bashing against the cheaters, lot of people who Matt Scott confirmed weren't rightfully banned will be victims of harassment and bullying, at the same time that the people we know they were indeed using cheats will get cover behind this to make the rest of us look like fools who can't tell who cheats and who doesn't. But the most important thing I think we should be aware of is that if someone cheated in the past, although we are still the same community there's a new management in the game, so this fresh start is a process of building the mutual trust we both the company and the players need to look forward and grow better than ever as same as a huge chance to heal a lot of damage this game had to suffer, if we use this "second chance" the cheaters have as an excuse to feel entitled to insult them, humiliate them and create drama, we'll be opening the APB Pandora box letting the poison start to drip over this river of clean water, I think they already got a deserved punishment, I think we are like some sort of civilians or spectators here, and going against those who will return would be like going also against the decision the company made which is the only gravitation point we have to believe in the future of APB and give our best to enjoy a video game that is just that, a virtual environment to play and have fun, is not a competition or a life or death battle. So, beyond the lots of fun we all will get fighting real solid gold players and washing the fake gold plated paint over the real silvers, this is just a game and we are supposed to just play and have fun, the game management take the decisions and the community expresses their opinions, nothing else. Please make a comment here to tell everyone what are your thoughts about all this. Regards, Sal.

May I ask about the players who got caught buying the cheap KttC packs from an external site that scammed them by reversing the payments and then they got massively banned for that? Will they be back tomorrow too or these will have to wait a bit more @MattScott ? [edited due to tldr]

As unexpected as welcomed! Hope you guys now will be able to focus in the other things you have up the sleeve to make this game greater than ever.

Granted, but its meaning is erased from the memory of the whole humanity so you are the only one who knows what it is, which means that now essentially it doesn't mean anything at all since nobody know what it is. I wish I could make shorter sentences and shorter comments when I post.

holly... whaaaat!?

Accurate. So essentially what really matters is, A) Attract and retain players to merge them properly with the current player base. and B) Get as much freebies as possible to finally jumping the fence of spending money in the game since once a player spends any amount of money for the first time then it is when the chances that such player will eventually spend more and probably keep spending indefinitely are increased considerably, once they enter the cycle also will remain loyal to the game they "invested real money" on, and ofc all this as long as the game can provide its customers with the right and good quality content its players are expecting to get. And cheaters are not an issue to be so worried about once we said this, they are going to get address this issue not by completely banning every single cheater, but by keeping the issue invisible and controlling the damage it does while aiming to re-insert every player that breaks the rules to ensure that the product (freebies) as same as the customers (buyers) will both keep feeding the cycle of sales the company needs, adding more content every time to satisfy the players that already bought everything they can/want at the same time that they make sure to get more newcomers hooked with the game purchasing stuff but enabling them to catch up with the gap between the ones who own tons of items since everyone will get tempted to get the stuff they see the other players have but is key to earn their loyalty in all aspect before the newcomers gets convinced of starting spending money, since the product they sell here actually is auto-advertised by the other players showing-off everything they got in-game, and the game must offer both, proper anticheat, and plenty of players to play with.

Granted, you got a pogo stick locked with chains in your legs for ever and every time you attempt to do number 1 you just...well you just do a mess and don't even dare to ask about number 2 please. Wish I could have a signature like yours.

Have you seen what these guys post in the Breakwater Galleria section!? wow! :]

Well, China already prosecuting hack makers, and BE exists since years, G1 could take actions before it went so out of control, and I don't believe money was an issue. But Tiggs also had fallen in some player's pocket which made it easier for some people to get access to "whitelist" themselves and lead some others to cross the line. Regarding the sentence quoted from Ritual, I just wanted to have a philosophical debate, I was delusional and brought some weird stuff I had in my mind looking to exchange our ideas, but I think we are more likely discussing about how bad the cheaters issue is and how many of us are against it, which is actually a tricky question; Who would ever agree with cheating and letting those who made us have such a bad time return to our beloved community? I would never ever support cheating in online games, whoever knows me ingame should know this because of how I talk with them every time I have a chance to expose a cheater or at least state my standing about these. I rather have 200 cheaters banned than 1 single person suffering the consequences of the harm they cause to our community, the game and its company.

Exactly what I almost say in my reply to youRitual, thank you. So now back on-topic, welcome back Zeker (confirmed it seems), hope to see you around in this new grown and mature attitude you seems to have developed since the years we used to play together, besides our lately distance and minor argues about what you did, I never saw you the same way I used to be the real and harmful cheaters, I saw you more like a victim of those who makes other people fall into the temptation of cheating, either because the latter ones feel frustrated or because the former ones are encouraging everyone to do it by making others believe there are no consequences. No you know there are, learned the hard way, but life ain't easy either in virtual reality environments lol. ____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Little disclaimer update: If someone around here reading our comments is thinking there's something wrong about my positive attitude about a guy who is openly admitting he cheated, I also have my doubts about trusting him as same as I'd do with anyone else in such situation and for the note, we weren't even "closer friends", but before I come here to antagonize with another player which would've be the easy way to react, I'm bringing my point of view of the experience I had with him and I'm particularly trying to avoid myself the stress and disappointment I really feel about having so many cheaters coming back despite of all our thoughts and past experiences with this kind of issues, but this is a taken decision already, so they'll be returning after the damage this game and the rest of us the players had to suffer because of them. Anyways, since many people makes wrong decisions when they are still young, despite of our right to blame on people who fell into such felonies, we still need to understand there were people responsible for letting all of this happen. And BE exists since 2005 though. ____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Edit 2 update: While posting here also tried to reach him through PM to kindly exchange some words but he's been around a couple of times since the past ~24hs and didn't reply, so I feel like bringing here this observation I've made because I wouldn't like to regret the comments I made supporting him, but I've been refraining myself of telling any of the negative impressions I also have from him ingame and on this post, hope I am the one who is wrong and that the guy is not lying to us. Otherwise, BE Hammer will tell. Regards, Sal.

Your words are inspiring ...look what a beautiful wall ... ...of text I made too.

Thanks for clarifying here, very appreciated. And yes, makes more sense, I'm okay with that besides the odd feelings and thoughts each of us as players could have.

And that's basically how it works. If there are no money sinks the amount of wealthy people would make prices go to the sky instead of lowering them, which results in cars, legendary weapons and valuable stuff becoming totally inaccessible for anyone else than group of players who could easily monopolize all the prices and the entire marketplace completely controlling it.

Yeah, I do agree, I'm waiting for some things they announced too, the patches and some other stuff. Well, let's see if someone replies here.

https://forums.gamersfirst.com/forum/4-news-announcements/ You're welcome. Edit: Anyways, I had this idea of a suggestion I made for the forums announcements section to get easier access and visibility for it if you want to support it. Regards, Sal.

You even stated the reason why these taxes are there: gold sink. It is a core element of any game's economy. I do agree some things should vary in the taxes rates, in example, if you buy a car that costs between $80 up to $1.000.000 from the NPCs, and then you have to sell it at a +25% higher price to get back your investment and above that there's so few margin for any additional earnings for it, it is not fair that then when you sell a symbol there is no cost for it to duplicate it as much as you want, so this makes the car business being something not profitable against the fact we even make real money investments to get the kits in order to provide our customers with a high quality service. I could go deeper with this topic, you already made your thread so probably in a near future, when this discussion comes to a conclusion someone could open a new thread to talk about the technicalities of the economy mechanics of the game to discuss how to improve it.

rofl, may be unrelated, but reminds me of this old one I had: