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Do vehicles need a stat rework?

Do vehicles need a complete balance rework?  

103 members have voted

  1. 1. Should other cars be balanced over the Vegas? (Cars equally expensive such as the Bishada)

    • Yes, cars should be buffed to have certain strengths and weaknesses.
      72
    • The Vegas should be nerfed in certain aspects, so other cars can be useful other situations.
      13
    • Keep things as is, and keep the Vegas the only go-to car in most situations.
      18


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I responded on topic.  for me, the topic is not relevant . not now.

how will your car drive on unstable servers ? BAD ! who are you playing with ? you'll have no one to play !

 

Edited by Yood

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53 minutes ago, BlueB said:

You clearly dont get it. 

Of course I get it that you think better and more expansive cars should bring the player-based a sense progression. That to feed this sense or progression the company owning the rights to APB:Reloaded should constantly introduce more expansive and better cars (and weapons and mods and equipment and consumables). I also get why you think you need this sense of progression even in this game (nothing to be embarrassed about, a lot of the younger generation gamers feel the same thing). 

 

Now, your turn.

Are you familiar with concepts such as mud slide and power creep and the effects it have on already existing assets?

Do you know the difference and driving factors between player skill progression and character level progression (and do you know which of the two categories APB:Reloaded belong to)?

 

It honestly doesn't seem that way, at least not by reviewing the few posts you done so far on this forum.

16 minutes ago, Yood said:

I responded on topic.  for me, the topic is not relevant . not now.

how will your car drive on unstable servers ? BAD ! who are you playing with ? you'll have no one to play !

 

If you think server instability is so relevant, then simple make a thread about it. Now stop trolling this thread. Thank you and have a nice day sir.

Edited by Bishada8800

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friendly reminder that BlueB is the same person that once argued that v spamming (rapidly switching shoulder camera angles) while shooting is a broken mechanic that magically increases accuracy

 

make of that what you will

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4 hours ago, Bishada8800 said:

Of course I get it that you think better and more expansive cars should bring the player-based a sense progression. That to feed this sense or progression the company owning the rights to APB:Reloaded should constantly introduce more expansive and better cars (and weapons and mods and equipment and consumables). I also get why you think you need this sense of progression even in this game (nothing to be embarrassed about, a lot of the younger generation gamers feel the same thing). 

 

Now, your turn.

Are you familiar with concepts such as mud slide and power creep and the effects it have on already existing assets?

Do you know the difference and driving factors between player skill progression and character level progression (and do you know which of the two categories APB:Reloaded belong to)?

 

It honestly doesn't seem that way, at least not by reviewing the few posts you done so far on this forum.

If you think server instability is so relevant, then simple make a thread about it. Now stop trolling this thread. Thank you and have a nice day sir.

Is not only sense of progression if not driving skills and money spent (or on 4x4 case 2 month of pain farming removed by greedfirst and replaced for 1 ez month farm or real $$$).

 

It doesnt matter what you tell here, vegas requires skill to be handled and ive only seen a few players do it right. Skill allways needs to be rewarded and not punished as cancerfirst did.

This is somthing you will never get because you are a low skill player, im sorry to tell you.

Edited by BlueB

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On 6/23/2019 at 8:24 PM, Omega101 said:

as others have said, a complete re-balance.   

The vegas is to heavy for the speed of that car. It need to be lighter, it should no be able to ram any heavy vehicle without taking major damage. Its a race care not a hover tank.

And the new money store vehicles are OP in weight and speed. I pioneer should not be able to keep up with any of the sports car class unless nitro is used. 

The problem with that is that making the most fun vehicle to drive not fun to drive anymore would just take a LOT of fun out of the game.  The Vegas isn't really a race car either.  It's a late 1960s to early 1970s American muscle car.  Those things are heavy compared to modern sports cars.  Instead of nerfing the very few things that are actually fun to drive, how about we make the boring shitty cars actually fun to use?  Nerfing the fun ones doesn't do any favors for the game at all.  Maybe reduce the Vegas 4x4's health a little bit, but don't change the way the damn thing drives.  Something as simple as reducing its weight would completely change the way it handles.  Lets take a look at the Cisco for a sec.  The thing slides all over the place, and though yes it is a really stable car, it still isn't really all that much fun to drive.  Plus it's a hockey puck that any vehicle in the game can ram out of the way except for maybe a Varzuga.  An increase in the Cisco's weight would mean more grip, so better turning and getting slammed would be less devastating.  However it would also need a little increase in torque to keep it's speed.  Currently it sits at being 2 mph slower than the Vegas, which I think is fine for a car that handles as well as it does.

 

2 minutes ago, BlueB said:

It doesnt matter what you tell here, vegas requires skill to be handled and ive only seen a few players do it right. Skill allways needs to be rewarded and not punished as cancerfirst did.

The normal Vegas does, but really the 4x4 doesn't require much skill to drive.  Skill helps with that car but it isn't mandatory like with the normal one.

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4 minutes ago, BlueB said:

vegas requires skill to be handled

lol nah

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11 minutes ago, BlueB said:

vegas requires skill to be handled and ive only seen a few players do it right

Even when you don't "do it right" the vegas packs plenty of margins (space to carry a heavy item/2 medium items, great acceleration and the ability to tank through major explosives) to make up for imperfections so in the big picture it doesn't really make a difference eitherway, unless you're talking top level plays, which is something a game shouldn't be balanced around solely.

Edited by Haganu
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4 minutes ago, BrandonBranderson said:

The problem with that is that making the most fun vehicle to drive not fun to drive anymore would just take a LOT of fun out of the game.  The Vegas isn't really a race car either.  It's a late 1960s to early 1970s American muscle car.  Those things are heavy compared to modern sports cars.  Instead of nerfing the very few things that are actually fun to drive, how about we make the boring shitty cars actually fun to use?  Nerfing the fun ones doesn't do any favors for the game at all.  Maybe reduce the Vegas 4x4's health a little bit, but don't change the way the damn thing drives.  Something as simple as reducing its weight would completely change the way it handles.  Lets take a look at the Cisco for a sec.  The thing slides all over the place, and though yes it is a really stable car, it still isn't really all that much fun to drive.  Plus it's a hockey puck that any vehicle in the game can ram out of the way except for maybe a Varzuga.  An increase in the Cisco's weight would mean more grip, so better turning and getting slammed would be less devastating.  However it would also need a little increase in torque to keep it's speed.  Currently it sits at being 2 mph slower than the Vegas, which I think is fine for a car that handles as well as it does.

 

The normal Vegas does, but really the 4x4 doesn't require much skill to drive.  Skill helps with that car but it isn't mandatory like with the normal one.

At certain point not, but ive seen one player once outskill me with it and he was really awesome drifting, i mean reaally.

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1 minute ago, Haganu said:

Even when you don't "do it right" the vegas packs plenty of power to make up for imperfections so in the big picture it doesn't really make a difference eitherway, unless you're talking top level plays, which is something a game shouldn't be balanced around solely.

we're talking about vehicles here tho, the only top level play is getting out and having your vehicle push your character model away from your hitbox

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1 minute ago, Haganu said:

Even when you don't "do it right" the vegas packs plenty of power to make up for imperfections so in the big picture it doesn't really make a difference eitherway, unless you're talking top level plays, which is something a game shouldn't be balanced around solely.

God of mine... are you aware of what you are saying? Knowing how to handle cars in apb DOES make the diference.

One simple example is arriving first at mission point... icould give you more but typing in phone is work for skeletons.

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Just now, BlueB said:

God of mine... are you aware of what you are saying? Knowing how to handle cars in apb DOES make the diference.

One simple example is arriving first at mission point... icould give you more but typing in phone is work for skeletons.

I guess you're just not comprehending what you're reading.

 

On average level, the vegas (not even the 4x4 mind you) has so many margins that it's - if you want to be somewhat competetive - absolute folly to put your threshold below the vegas.

The Pioneer and Espacio are more efficient in specific fields (such as item stages or if you really need to tank stuff), other than that you're basically good to go in any situation if you have a vegas. Preferably the 4x4 since that thing is just smart broken.

 

The N-TEC 5 of cars, to a degree.

 

Being so caught up in your own view yet you don't seem to have the ability to type it out on phone (even though your examples might not even be on point).

 

Just another day.

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8 minutes ago, Haganu said:

I guess you're just not comprehending what you're reading.

 

On average level, the vegas (not even the 4x4 mind you) has so many margins that it's - if you want to be somewhat competetive - absolute folly to put your threshold below the vegas.

The Pioneer and Espacio are more efficient in specific fields (such as item stages or if you really need to tank stuff), other than that you're basically good to go in any situation if you have a vegas. Preferably the 4x4 since that thing is just smart broken.

 

The N-TEC 5 of cars, to a degree.

 

Being so caught up in your own view yet you don't seem to have the ability to type it out on phone (even though your examples might not even be on point).

 

Just another day.

Lol what a mock.

Even an imperfection in the floor flips a vegas.

Its funnier than you put ntec meme as comparison like a good silver.

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18 hours ago, Glaciers said:

we're talking about vehicles here tho, the only top level play is getting out and having your vehicle push your character model away from your hitbox

Shouldn't that just be an issue of fixing the desync problem with being pushed by your car then? I'm not really sure where you're coming from here.  Back in the day attempting this exploit would kill you, so it wasn't even a thing back then, but G1 made it so you don't get hit by your own car anymore when leaving the vehicle.  Actually that may be a good thing to re-implement...

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i suggested in 2013 to allow low tier car (varzuga,balkan,calabria) to equip 2 blue mods at same time.

in case of no slot just add 2 carry slot more.

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can i get uhhh slotted version of the modded varzuga pls

 

k thx

 

editt : and some kit

Edited by Uqe
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1 hour ago, Uqe said:

can i get uhhh slotted version of the modded varzuga pls

k thx

editt : and some kit

Yes please.  I know there's a few people and a certain 8Ball out there that would agree.

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The only thing wrong with cars right now is the fact that the best car in the game is locked behind JTs. Many players, don't have time to grind away to get tickets to get their Varzuga.

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On 6/26/2019 at 9:26 PM, BlueB said:
On 6/26/2019 at 5:23 PM, Bishada8800 said:

Now, your turn.

It doesnt matter...

As I thought.

 

In a character level progression game it doesn't really matter how skilled you, the player is. Not as much as in-character levels and equipment. A lot of RPGs work like this. Sure, there are some measure of player skill as well but it fade compared to the in-game power curve. For example; a level 10 character in World of Warcraft using low level equipment will never beat a bad level 90 player dressed in legendary items. The driving factor in games like this are in-game experience and in-game items. The owner of the game need to constantly push new and better items on the market. I think you might confuse APB:Reloaded to be such a game....

 

In a player skill progression game (which many FPS games are) high skill will make the game easier. Compared to the example above; A good gold player with a few K of game hours that is creating a new character and only using lower level equipment will win 10 times out of 10 against a bad and inexperienced player (and in the case of APB:Reloaded even if the bad and inexperienced player is given a R255 character and access to all in-game items the game have to offer). To keep making the game interesting you need to challenge the skilled player (let him face opponents of similar skill level, or let him face multiple less skilled players -- both various ladder systems but also threat district segregation are two examples of this), not give him more advantages to make the game even easier (like rewarding skilled players with pure upgrades such as the Vegas 4x4. Side-grades and reskins are OK... but pure upgrades should be avoided if possible). If you do then the skilled player will get bored and leave the game. And new players pitched against him will feel overwhelmed (or think that their opponent is cheating) and they will never really start playing the game. 

 

On 6/26/2019 at 9:26 PM, BlueB said:

vegas requires skill to be handled 

 

As I said, I got the world first 4 slot Vegas 4x4.

 

I have no issues driving this car. I love driving it. And even if you do screw up it have such a heavy "push through"-power *and* great "acceleration from stationary" that it doesn't really matter (compared for example to Bishada Rapier or Sungnyemun Moirai that would come to a complete stand-still and then spend a rather long time to pick up the speed again).

 

If you think driving Vegas 4x4 is too hard to drive, even though it (by design) require far less skill to drive than normal Vegas, then a suggestion could be to use a Pioneer instead. It got most of the advantages of the Vegas 4x4, but it require no skill at all to drive. Personally I find it too boring (and having fun is an important aspect of gaming for me).

 

On 6/26/2019 at 9:26 PM, BlueB said:

Skill allways needs to be rewarded

The *original* Vegas *did* reward skill. A bad driver would be punished if he tried to take a corner (any corner) while at the same time using the high max speed of this car. A good driver could still drift through the corner while keeping the high speed of the car. Most of the time.

 

Compared to original Vegas, however, the upgraded Vegas 4x4 is very easy to drive. Almost all the built in weaknesses of the original Vegas (that made it require skill to drive) have been removed. Almost only advantages remain. 

 

Someone that played this game long enough to unlock a 4 slot Vegas 4x4 is often more skilled than someone that just joined the game. Why would he need to get more powerful stuff. Why get advantages over someone that just joined and is less skilled? This will only give the experienced player an easier time. Less challenges. This is actually counter productive since APB:Reloaded is a player skill progression game.

 

On 6/26/2019 at 9:26 PM, BlueB said:

This is somthing you will never get because you are a low skill player, im sorry to tell you.

General hint to good netiquette; Stop attacking other forum posters. It make you look immature (and it is also against forum rules). 

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On 6/23/2019 at 6:50 AM, Nitronik said:

TL;DR Yes, LO please fix the car stats thank you


First off - LOL. The meta does NOT favor the Vegas as much as you think it does. Far, far from it.

That said,
Yes, goddamnit. Vehicles need a stat rework, and bad.

Everyone with half a brain has been saying it, and everyone who plays the game can see it - SP3 / Nitro Pioneer, SP3 / Nitro Pioneer, some SP3 / Nitro Espacios, a Vegas 4x4 sprinkled here and there...

That is, if you want to *win*. If you're just HaViNg FuN you may also spot the odd Mikro around town. Paging my man @Thaumaturge to get his awesome "so you want to win" flowchart posted, since a picture's worth a thousand words


The vehicle health buff that happened way back in 2013-2014 was what made the current Pioneer meta cement itself. It's extremely boring and made a good 90% of cars in this game redundant. I miss the 2011-2012 vehicle variety, whereas people actually drove the Jericho and Bishada.

That said, I do like how the Fresno is a pretty competitive 2seater atm due to its tankiness, so they did get that right.

 

t3opMSc.png

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On 6/30/2019 at 3:30 AM, Bishada8800 said:

As I thought.

 

In a character level progression game it doesn't really matter how skilled you, the player is. Not as much as in-character levels and equipment. A lot of RPGs work like this. Sure, there are some measure of player skill as well but it fade compared to the in-game power curve. For example; a level 10 character in World of Warcraft using low level equipment will never beat a bad level 90 player dressed in legendary items. The driving factor in games like this are in-game experience and in-game items. The owner of the game need to constantly push new and better items on the market. I think you might confuse APB:Reloaded to be such a game....

 

In a player skill progression game (which many FPS games are) high skill will make the game easier. Compared to the example above; A good gold player with a few K of game hours that is creating a new character and only using lower level equipment will win 10 times out of 10 against a bad and inexperienced player (and in the case of APB:Reloaded even if the bad and inexperienced player is given a R255 character and access to all in-game items the game have to offer). To keep making the game interesting you need to challenge the skilled player (let him face opponents of similar skill level, or let him face multiple less skilled players -- both various ladder systems but also threat district segregation are two examples of this), not give him more advantages to make the game even easier (like rewarding skilled players with pure upgrades such as the Vegas 4x4. Side-grades and reskins are OK... but pure upgrades should be avoided if possible). If you do then the skilled player will get bored and leave the game. And new players pitched against him will feel overwhelmed (or think that their opponent is cheating) and they will never really start playing the game. 

 

 

As I said, I got the world first 4 slot Vegas 4x4.

 

I have no issues driving this car. I love driving it. And even if you do screw up it have such a heavy "push through"-power *and* great "acceleration from stationary" that it doesn't really matter (compared for example to Bishada Rapier or Sungnyemun Moirai that would come to a complete stand-still and then spend a rather long time to pick up the speed again).

 

If you think driving Vegas 4x4 is too hard to drive, even though it (by design) require far less skill to drive than normal Vegas, then a suggestion could be to use a Pioneer instead. It got most of the advantages of the Vegas 4x4, but it require no skill at all to drive. Personally I find it too boring (and having fun is an important aspect of gaming for me).

 

The *original* Vegas *did* reward skill. A bad driver would be punished if he tried to take a corner (any corner) while at the same time using the high max speed of this car. A good driver could still drift through the corner while keeping the high speed of the car. Most of the time.

 

Compared to original Vegas, however, the upgraded Vegas 4x4 is very easy to drive. Almost all the built in weaknesses of the original Vegas (that made it require skill to drive) have been removed. Almost only advantages remain. 

 

Someone that played this game long enough to unlock a 4 slot Vegas 4x4 is often more skilled than someone that just joined the game. Why would he need to get more powerful stuff. Why get advantages over someone that just joined and is less skilled? This will only give the experienced player an easier time. Less challenges. This is actually counter productive since APB:Reloaded is a player skill progression game.

 

General hint to good netiquette; Stop attacking other forum posters. It make you look immature (and it is also against forum rules). 

Thanks to agree with me.

 

I admire such free time to blast such amount of nonsense, tho. Theres still ppl thinking than larger posts to tire everyone who read it will make you right... you remind me to sayvana or something like it, great typing poor gameplay heh.

Edited by BlueB

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seiyo espacio should have the same stats as pioneer..

 

pioneer is far superior than espacio.

 

that's all

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14 minutes ago, BlueB said:

Thanks to agree with me.

You are welcome. 

 

It is actually quite common that people don't realize that in a player skill progression game like APB:Reloaded it is important that rewards (if any) to skilled players should come in other forms than giving them access to pure upgrades (such Vegas 4x4 in its current incarnation). From what you typed in previous posts I assumed that you were one of them. Seem as if I were mistaken.

 

32 minutes ago, BlueB said:

I admire such free time to blast such amount...

I type very quick (while not looking at the keyboard). As a result my posts tend to be quite lengthy

(but most people still more often than not find them to be both correct and informative).

 

27 minutes ago, BlueB said:

Theres still ppl thinking than larger posts to tire everyone who read it will make you right

I am sorry, but I don't fully understand where you are going with your reply here (especially since you just agreed with me).

 

You are of course free to agree or disagree with any post, and no matter the length of the post.

(at least as long as you have valid arguments on the topic)

 

15 minutes ago, BlueB said:

...poor gameplay heh.

This was totally uncalled for. Please stop doing this.

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24 minutes ago, Uhtdred said:

pioneer is far superior than espacio.

1. Seiyo Espacio is better designed for providing cover while spending time on an objective (like breaking up an exposed door). Enforcers often get objects that are "pick up" an item or a car where parking a van in the way to provide cover make less sense. 

2. Seiyo Espacio also have faster reverse acceleration from stationary (which might be useful now and then).

 

Besides this I agree with you that Pioneer is the stronger of the two

(i would use my Pioneer a lot more if it wasn't for the fact I like driving in this game but in this aspect Pioneer is very boring).

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2 minutes ago, Bishada8800 said:

You are welcome. 

 

It is actually quite common that people don't realize that in a player skill progression game like APB:Reloaded it is important that rewards (if any) to skilled players should come in other forms than giving them access to pure upgrades (such Vegas 4x4 in its current incarnation). From what you typed in previous posts I assumed that you were one of them. Seem as if I were mistaken.

 

I type very quick (while not looking at the keyboard). As a result my posts tend to be quite lengthy

(but most people still more often than not find them to be both correct and informative).

 

I am sorry, but I don't fully understand where you are going with your reply here (especially since you just agreed with me).

 

You are of course free to agree or disagree with any post, and no matter the length of the post.

(at least as long as you have valid arguments on the topic)

 

This was totally uncalled for. Please stop doing this.

Its been like that for ever... for example osmaw and opgl. And ita not reward higher skill player just because, those powerful weapons require players knowledge and skill, or see today silvers with opgl or osmaw how bad they use it... other is to prevent cheaters to access better equipament earlier. You only are a justice warrior fihting for equallity, and we already seen how bad it is for this game long enough, you should stop.

 

Stop acusing me of insulting you because i am not doing it. Trying to removeme from forums wont make you more right, please. Thanks you very much for your comprehension.

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22 minutes ago, BlueB said:

You only are a justice warrior 

 

22 minutes ago, BlueB said:

Stop acusing me of insulting you because i am not doing it.

🤔

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